Tell me... Why do we even HAVE a Christian right? What is there in the ultra-conservative right politically that so attracts fundamentalist Christians? From what little I've been able to stand listening to people like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity, the ultra-right is the most hateful, hate-filled, intolerant, etc., etc., etc., moral and political philosophy being publicly touted. Why would the adherents and followers of the "God" in whom I used to believe, a God of love, peace, help (remember the story of the Good Samaritan?), and calm, follow such a philosophy?
For those of you who are interested, I know whereof I speak. my parents had an evening ritual. We read a certain amount of the Bible every night, and we read it cover to cover every year. I grew up in Baptist and Nazarene congregations.
So-o-o-o... what do you say? Explain it to me?
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Comments: 203
I think Jesus preached love, forgiveness, compassion and that sounds fine by me. As for the politicians, right, left or sitting firmly on the fence like me, seems they will accept power for anyone who wants to pass it over to them.
I'll be interested in what others have to say on this issue.
I have been trying to reason with the common sense I thought all humans had deep down and have come up against these "Christians" time and aain. They follow me around spouting hellfire and damnation, they speak of disasters and catastophies caused by the liberal Left and hiss and spurt venom from their every orafice.
Where did they come from? What is this twisted cult on the Sundayschool stories of the Bible doing to this country, and inevitable, scarily, the World?
Just like Islam was the religion of peace, Fundamentalists got ahold of the Quron and took what they needed to branch out and hate. likewise, the Bible fanatics have taken things out of context and out of context to the world today and twisted it's meanings for their own racist, intolerent ends. Making everyone's time on earth a living hell, restrictive and backwards is their pleasure. Sneering and taunting their hatred must be turning their hearts black.
Most talk shows I don't listen to and when I do listen to it, I make a decision based on what I believe, not what they want me to believe.
Mooch
To top off this brilliant strategy, they have fine tuned the rhetoric and nibbled around the edges but never actually done much to give the "social conservatives" what they want.
Later, "Libruls" were blamed for "stirrin' up th' Nigras."
Even later, we were excoriated for being opposed to the war in Viet Nam.
More recently... well, you get the picture. The "Evul Libruls" appear to have been around for quite awhile.
I never understood many things about hypocrites.
They say love your neighbor, be a good friend, treat everyone equally, then they hate a group of people for no reason.
I'm still a firm Christian and I never judge anyone.
Ever.
Oh, and by the way... the rating of the piece counts. High or low is just supposed to be information for the author. It doesn't matter in the scoring.
Yes folks, I do understand that there are extremists on BOTH sides of this fence. There are some who judge everyone, by a few words...or like in Rush's case.. a whole mouthful.
I, like many others, have a high intake from the news and other sources of verbal information. We all have a certain ability to absorb or delete input that does not agree with our own lines of reasoning.
What disturbs me most, is the generalizing or grouping together of any person who subscribes to Christianity in any form. Now, personally, I don't go around seeking athiests to castigate. I don't seek out anyone in particular, to find fault with. I, like so many of you, do have our opinions of things and we all like to share our opinions. However, what grates on me, with this sharing of opinion, is that some folks hold their opinions to be the solid truth or the ONLY way it can possibly be, while seeking out other opinions, just to criticise, call names, label and spread their own version of "hate", not realizing that their own comments can be considered hate speech, also. That, to me, is very sad.
We all have a true right to our opinions. That's just a plain old fact. But, to state something... from any viewpoint, be it conservative thought, liberal thought or trying to straddle that proverbial fence.... and call it the ONLY way it should be, is wrongheaded by all of us who take it upon ourselves to judge others for their beliefs. With that said, I know that I am probably guilty as heck of doing the same, from time to time. None of us are perfect and I know, without a shadow of a doubt, that not all of my views are perfect and are always subject to change, if the proper information is presented and it meets my requirements of being objective.
To me, the division of the peoples of our country; the division of groups of people all over the world, is not the direction we should be headed. There are many ideas suggested by liberals, conservatives, independents... everyone.... that we should all give some thought to, instead of listening or reading, then judging harshly, if one or two fragments of that idea as a whole, do not meet our exacting criteria.
If I had my way about it, we would all become open minded, willing to listen and evaluate, then if necessary, add our two bits worth in a positive manner, where perhaps we could actually make a difference, rather than fighting and having to have everything "our way" only. There should be a middle ground where we can find a balance, so that everyone gets a little bit of their way.
When ideals or thoughts are expected to be followed to the letter, without a chance to discuss and maybe even make a few changes to the idea or plan, then regardless of our political or religious belief system, we are all wrong by not allowing that some of the input is good and some is not good.
We have reached a point where if you don't agree with me, then you are simply wrong. There are no grey areas, allowing mediation or compromise.
There are no solutions offered. How do we expect to make a success of our society(s), if we are not willing to listen, reason, discuss and possibly make changes, so that we can be one nation, undivided.
There HAS to be some way that we, as all kinds of people, can get along. There just has to be! I certainly don't hold the answer of what it'll take for us to be one people, able to get along with each other. Do you? It saddens me that there is so much division amongst us. Unless we learn ways to get along, we are all doomed to a pretty dark future.
Of course, all of the above is just my own humble OPINION.
I'm all for keeping religion in the church of your choice, but get it out of our government, schools, and most of all, get it out of my face!
Human beings have a strong tendency to hang out with those like themselves, and to dissociate from anyone classed as "other". Politically, there was a time when there was little association between parties and religion. For a time, in the middle of the last century, I believe that church-goers tended to be more democratic. But then conservative politicians started to speak the language of the church, linking to the Bible and spiritual themes while the more liberal politicians started reaching out to the more diverse religious crowds. Conservative politics was linked with conservative theology. Eventually it has come to seem like these things are fundamentally linked, while it is only something that appears so because of the weight of "sheep" following behind.
I was educated at one of the best Bible College's in the States: they did their best to teach me what had become traditional associations between conservatism and Biblical theology. I just kept asking questions, and found there were other answers. All a person has to do is to look beyond the box drawn by some church leaders.
But to answer your question: "What is there in the ultra-conservative right politically that so attracts fundamentalist Christians?" Nothing but tradition. The funny thing is that evengelicals consider people like Catholics and Protestants and Muslims the ones who are trapped by tradition. They do not see that they are rooted to their politics in exactly the same way.
I see "fundies" (people who call themselves Fundamentalist while conveniently forgetting the actual fundamentals of the faith) as one extreme of the "family values" right... those who misinterpret the old testament's extended instructions for the rapid but safe growth of a nation as a narrow definition of God's expectations regarding family life.
These extreme examples flock to the right for the same reason that those who disagree with them flock to the left. Just as you won't find anyone on the far right arguing for gay marriage, you won't find anyone on the far left arguing for a kid's parents' right to decide whether or not he or she has to sit through sex education in the fourth grade (as I had to do) or is taught environmentalism as part of his or her elementary school curriculum (as my son is taught).
The only things I have to wonder, in response to this question, are:
Why ask?
and
Why is it that when I see posts related to politics and religion, I see real venom and hatred in the comments coming only from the side which claims to be the most loving, while the other side often gets accused of hatred for merely disagreeing with the angry side's opinions?
I'm more afraid of "christians" than Muslims of ANY kind.
My sister quit giong to her church after they told her that if she didn't vote for Baby Bush in 2004 she was going to hell. She is, however, still a Christian, in the most honest sense of the word.
Since I’m in the middle of Finals week, I hate to admit, but I must give in to the temptation of leaving a generic comment
But to give it a little personal touch, I added some artwork for you to enjoy!
<font size="1">MySpace Glitters</font>
The point was a warning to not rely on condoms to prevent aids. We all know they're not always effective. If people believe that condoms will prevent aids, they're more likely to engage in sex, which would increase the spread when they fail.
People are going to have sex REGARDLESS of what they believe about condoms. Is it better for people to have sex with multiple partners WITH condoms or WITHOUT?
There are a lot of misunderstandings and strange beliefs about AIDS, particularly in places like Africa. I saw a documentary about some tribes in Africa where the men thought if they had sex with a female child then they would GIVE the child thier AIDS and wouldn't have it anymore. Or that if they slept with a certain number of women then it would go away. Or that a "witch doctor" could take it away.
Women in a lot of tribal communities have NO say in sex, or they sell their bodies to provide food for their families. Activists have been trying to get them to understand that if they use condoms then they would be less likely to get it or to spread it.
If you go around tellling people condoms don't work AT ALL, STDs of ALL types will spread at a much greater rate than they do currently. Misinformation of ANY kind is NEVER good.
Since you ask, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. That then becomes a person's own choice whether to accept and seek or reject what they have heard, that could maybe be God's message of beginning for their own life. Now If that person is looking to people and all their failing examples to determine his or her own choice, they will be sorely disappointed at best. Each person has a choice whether to genuinly seek the Lord personally, sincerely and one on one, else they can rely on other's legion of shortcomings to make those decisions for them......
Sandy A
SA
Jeff: First, I think psychotic is at least a tad over the top. Second, I actually DID answer your question. Go - re-read with understanding.
Once again, your statement is a lie, but it is intentional. For one, you would have to believe anybody who said that is a complete idiot. Either you count on that, and willfully spread the propaganda for your own ideological purposes, or you are one of the idiots who actually believe that statement.
The pope said that behavior spreads disease and that telling people that a condom will protect them actually spreads the disease even further because it doesn't change the behavior. The fact that the UN has sent more condoms to Africa than any other country on earth, as well as clean needles, and the fact that AIDS has only gotten worse has shown him to be right and you to be a fool.
Everybody else... g'nite
You mean the way that "christians" will go around telling people that if they don't believe EXACTLY the way that they do they are going to Hell? The same people who can't agree on exactly WHAT Christianity is? The ones who have wars with each other because one group thinks that you are litterally eating and drinking Christ, and the other don't?
Chuck, whenever I post a comment on someone's political post, the trolls DB1 me, too. I've given you a 10 and have accepted this posting into Fugitives. I am ducking out now before the punches start........
What is there in the ultra-conservative right politically that so attracts fundamentalist Christians? I suppose that has to do with our knowing that all the answers do not come from government. We know that the answers come from God. And then we know that each one is called to work hard, as unto the Lord. While it's perfectly fine to help someone, it is not helping anyone to allow him/her to continually lean on the government for his/her every need.
I see far less hate in the likes of Rush Limbaugh and Hannity than I do in the CNN reporters who totally disrespected the Tea Party rally participants, or the persons here at Gather who did the same.
I'm sorry that you had a bad experience with Christianity as a young person. But that doesn't mean that your experience is what everyone encounters or that all Christians are bad or crazy, any more than anyone should think that all non-Christians are bad or crazy.
I'm reading a great book right now, one that should be of interest to people who are Christian and non-Christian. It's called I Became a Christian...And All I Got Was This Lousy T-Shirt. It's a book that makes those who left the faith say, "Yes! That's why I left!" and those seeking a deeper and stronger relationship with the Lord understand why others are turned off by many Christian churches.
However, for the most part and irt quite a few (on Gather anyway), I agree with you. I've read threads on which a Christian or a Conservative only has to say something like, 'Hello' or "I don't think so," and the libs are off to the races to see who can insult fastest, cut the deepest, guess what they'll say next, and accuse and infer the worst things ... you can't imagine. And as someone said in another thread, you can't make these things up - ya only have to read and capture the screen of a few conversations to prove it. :(
Liberals historically castigate those that disagree with their sacred cows and have no tolerance for those who disagree, even if those who disagree agree with 80% of everything else they stand for. "Liberal tolerance" The new oxymoron.....
Jeff H., May 1, 2009, 10:36pm EDT
Yes, I think liberals/communists are just like them. Ignorance is an equal opportunity sweetie.
I ask anybody this. Is somebody make an accusation that.....
"""Jeff-The Pope. The same guy that said that condoms SPREAD disease? """
.....and gets the factual record and explanation....
"""The pope said that behavior spreads disease and that telling people that a condom will protect them actually spreads the disease even further because it doesn't change the behavior. """"
.....and then proclaims.......
"""So, he said that using condoms spreads disease. I don't see the descrepincy(sp) between the two statements... """""
....is she an idiot or intelligent?
Here is a fact. In Africa most people are poor. Young women have the opportunity to sell themselves for a better living. Many are afraid that if they did, they could contract AIDS so they don't. The UN comes to town and sets up a free condom shop and spreads the myth that behavior isn't causing AIDS, it's the lack of condoms! The young girl gets her bx of condoms and prostitutes. During sex, the man pulls off the condom because it feels better thinking "I already have AIDS and she is just a hooker who probably has AIDS....". The naive girl who though condoms would protect her from AIDS now has it.
A condom does not spread AIDS or any STD Elizabeth, behavior does as the Pope explained in language you don't seem to understand. Wise up.
.....
After the civil war they generally were Democrats; it was the party of Lincoln that was the biggest proponents of civil rights in the South, against the wishes of the defeated slave owners. This era was very short lived, in part to the vigilante movements of the fundamentalists and hate mongers (like the KKK). It was only decades later when the Democratic Party decided to champion the cause of civil rights did these Democrats jump ship and try to attach themselves to the Republican Party.
The Christian Right isn’t exactly the best feature of the Republican Party. They helped squash the African American, Roman Catholic Alan Keys back in 2000 and they helped squash the Mormon, Mitt Romney in 2008 from the primaries.
I think he was wrong to use his political stance or religious stance to voice his opinion to the GOP, and the sheeple fell into line.
Mooch
mooch (I do NOT like Obama as a politician) -., May 1, 2009, 8:02pm EDT
And, explains a lot. (I say that not in meaness but sadly. Yes, I think it's sad you are a communist)
Just for the record, I'm not a "Liberal", I'm a communist.
Elizabeth (This place IS my Soap Opera) O., May 1, 2009, 11:21pm EDT
What is there in the ultra-conservative right politically that so attracts fundamentalist Christians? I suppose that has to do with our knowing that all the answers do not come from government. We know that the answers come from God. And then we know that each one is called to work hard, as unto the Lord. While it's perfectly fine to help someone, it is not helping anyone to allow him/her to continually lean on the government for his/her every need.
I see far less hate in the likes of Rush Limbaugh and Hannity than I do in the CNN reporters who totally disrespected the Tea Party rally participants, or the persons here at Gather who did the same.
I'm sorry that you had a bad experience with Christianity as a young person. But that doesn't mean that your experience is what everyone encounters or that all Christians are bad or crazy, any more than anyone should think that all non-Christians are bad or crazy.
I'm reading a great book right now, one that should be of interest to people who are Christian and non-Christian. It's called I Became a Christian...And All I Got Was This Lousy T-Shirt. It's a book that makes those who left the faith say, "Yes! That's why I left!" and those seeking a deeper and stronger relationship with the Lord understand why others are turned off by many Christian churches.
Marilyn M., May 1, 2009, 11:30pm EDT
So-o-o-o... what do you say? Explain it to me?"
Since you ask, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. That then becomes a person's own choice whether to accept and seek or reject what they have heard, that could maybe be God's message of beginning for their own life. Now If that person is looking to people and all their failing examples to determine his or her own choice, they will be sorely disappointed at best. Each person has a choice whether to genuinly seek the Lord personally, sincerely and one on one, else they can rely on other's legion of shortcomings to make those decisions for them......
Sandy A
John J., May 1, 2009, 11:00pm EDT
After godless communism was failing as a vote getter for the Republicans (Conservative/Pro-Business)
The message was changed by Nixon to Anti Hippie/Anti African American
Regan added
Abortion
Promise of prayer and teaching of creationism in schools, kept race message.
But all this was really refined by G.W.Bush Campagins
Anti-Abortion
Prayer/Creationism
Race
Hysterically anti-gay/lesbian
And whipped right up to fever
But really since the REgan campaigns the major message.
------anti-abortion
I think part of the reason we have a "religious right" is because everyone (liberals included), has a tendency to group people. I'm fairly liberal myself, so I'm including myself in that statement. I think it's really difficult to see yourself in the world view of someone else.
For example, I would group some people (in the comments to this post) as being in the religious right. But they have a term for me. It's just that I can't really see myself in their point of view.
I'm having a hard time articulating. How about this. The reason there is a "religious right" is because of me. Because I am liberal, I created a category to group those whose views are very opposite of mine.
Also, I think there exists the same mentality on both sides. It's maybe harder to pin a generalized term for the "atheist left". In a discussion where God is invoked, it's easy to label that side as Christian. Where God is not invoked, there is no cue. No atheist uses as the bases of his argument "God doesn't exist, therefore..."
Also, I think there's a lot of bad commenting here.
Blessings and best wishes - S.
Hannah: I asked because I lived with the daily example of your grandparents. Yeah, I know, the Old Man was a strange mix of liberal bigot, but he and your grandmother took the love aspect of Christianity for the most important aspect, and THAT's what they espoused. Today's Christian Conservatives would[ve appalled those two.
The question may be better put as several separate questions:
"Why are fundamentalist Christians so attracted to support of war, no matter the expressed reason, so long as the President wants it?"
Why are fundamentalist Christians so obsessed with guns? * I like 'em myself - even own a couple, but my goodness...*
Why are fundamentalist Christians so locked into the anti-Gay political front?
Why are fundamentalist Christians so deeply sure they are, each and every one, are better Constitutional Scholars than judges who've been doing little else than applying the constitution ot legal cases for DECADES?
Why are fundamentalist Christians...?"
Ian Thorpe: "Why the Christian right? Because (of?) the Atheist left :-)"
Um-m--m-m... No. We didn't "create" the Christian Right. Remember - the Christian Right existed (and probably had for some time) when I was 10 years old. My parents were both Christian and "liberal" (in most expressions). If you want to see what true Christianity produces, Google "Larlham."
As for my religious beginnings... I didn't have a "bad experience" as a Baptist. We left the Baptist church for an even MORE fundamentalist group - the Nazarene church. It's just that reading thru the Bible every year from the time I could remember until I left home, and sitting through someting like 750 fundamentalist sermons, and figuring out that not every word in the King James Virgin could possibly be true or fact, finally persuaded me that none of it was real. A great guide for living your life, sure. An actual account of some great being who willed himself, our universe, and us into existence? Not so much.
Keep up the good work, Chuck.
I think it's sad that "christians" think they need to be in control of other people's personal business and in every aspect of their lives. I'm, most likely, not the kind of communist you're even thinking of. I've actually lived in 2 communes, 1 I ran, 1 I just lived in. MY communism is like an ant community. Everyone does what needs to be done, no one is truly "in charge", everyone lives to better everyone's life. Everyone has what they need and everyone has a purpose.
Now, I'm not so naive as to belive that this will actually work on a large scale, but that would be MY utopian dream.
This is why I seperate them into Christians and "christians"
They claim to have a monopoly on the market of open-mindedness and tolerance, but in truth are often extremely closed- minded and intolerant- like this article.
The latest christian to be attacked viciously for just answering a question was Ms. Prejean Miss America contesent, question on gay marraige, her answer was the same answer Obama gave when he was asked about gay marraige, she was attacked relentlesly-why? Because she was a Christian and had the nerve to speak her mind. Prop 8 in California lost, who were the largest block of people to vote it down? blacks-baptist? do I see any protest infront of black churches-NO!.
Ian Thorpe says "Why the Christian right? Because the atheist left :-)"
Here Chuck is the crux of the problem. We allow them to play these word games. I never referred to Gingrich's coalition as a Christian one because I did not see them accomplishing anything that would warrant that designation. They pretend that Christian moderates and Christian liberals do not exist and in their minds they have divided the country into two camps- the God fearing right versus the infidels. By allowing them these titles we play into their belief that they are God's warriors and so they can feel superior to the rest of us. Not all conservative Christians are crazy. But there is a subset that behaves in a cult like manor. They don't follow reasonable theologians. Instead they formulate their belief systems based on information they obtain from uneducated pundits on a television station that's always been happy to use fear tactics to boost ratings. On that station the term "secular left" or "atheist left" is repeatedly used as a rallying cry for a Holy war against fellow Americans. How many atheists are there in our population? I'm not sure of percentages but I think if politics simply boiled down to atheist vs them then they'd win all elections. Ian and Marilyn, why do you always pretend that Christian moderates and liberals do not exist? Because we haven't been as good at forming political clubs? Because we don't use certain tactics? Really, when is the last time you heard someone say "You're not a real Christian if you don't recycle?" And what about all of the other faiths you seem to have left out of the equation? I don't buy your labels. It's the same kind of word game that allows people who are pro death penalty and pro torture to designate themselves as pro life rather than the more precise anti abortion. All of the liberals I know in the real world are Christian. I know only one atheist in my area and he is a conservative who recently attended a tea party.
Chuck I would be lying if I said I did not wish you shared my faith, but I cannot force my beliefs on you nor do I want to. I am glad that this nation had founding fathers intelligent enough to design a document that protects our right to worship or not worship. I am pleased that we have a president who understands that it is his job to be the president of those of all faiths or non faith.
Because the majority of them have been proven to be hypocrites.
The Christian faith is defined by its writings and nothing more. Faith is not rock hard proof but simply faith in a belief that cannot be proven by any historical event. Their is no way to prove Mohammad had a vision or if rocks and trees have a spirit.
More people have been murdered over the faith issue than for any other reason.
I still believe that a Christian shows his/her faith by their daily actions toward other people and not in meaningless talk.
Mickey- The bashing goes both ways. I am a Christian and yet the only people who have insulted me or called me vile names on Gather have been people identifying themselves as Christians. Fortunately there are a very small number of you. Here is a poser for you- I am a Christian and Chuck is an atheist yet we have some political views in common. I call myself a Christian and you call yourself a Christian and yet we have no views in common. Can you explain or address this without calling me a moron or insisting that I am not a "true" Christian?
What a great brainwashing tool, those who resist are damned to hell.
All I can say is from the Crusades to the recent poll that showed Christians favor torture, the "Christian right" should be called the Christian wrong.
It is these "Christians" who do more harm than a busload of atheists.
The only relief I get is from some from my congregation visiting the hospitals and jails, wherever the miserable need comfort. Here are some true Christians who devote their lives, not their rhetoric, to actually doing God's will.
There is an elderly lady from my church who visits my father at the Geriatric ward. She visits all the oldsters. God bless this Osteoporosis suffering lady who has trouble walking.
I am so proud of these REAL Christians.
Christianity is not a political party- or political agenda. It's a belief, a faith, a way of life.
Kay, I do not know you never met you, I am a Christian, Kay, you are a Christian. Kay, we may not have anything in common? why? perhaps because our Creator gave us Free-Will, Kay, you can choose to be any type of Christian that you wish to be.
Kay, when have I ever called you a moron?.