It is very important to know who your enemy is. The enemy of the US and all freedom loving people is NOT Islam or Muslims. It is a sect of Islam that is represented by the Taliban and Al Qaeda, the vicious group that attacked and killed 3000 of our people. The vast majority of Muslims would reject the idea of living under a Taliban ruled state. And we should direct all of our efforts, military, diplomatic, and policy toward defeating our true enemy. This should include enlisting as many allies, within and outside the Islamic world as possible. Why do I say this. I will let the enemies of freedom speak for themselves.
Here are the words the Taliban used when they began their rule in Afghanistan
Our watan is now known as the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan. These are the laws that we will enforce and you will obey:
All citizens must pray five times a day. If it is prayer time and you are caught doing something other, you will be beaten.
All men will grow their beards. The correct length is at least one clenched fist beneath the chin. If you do not abide by this, you will be beaten.
All boys will wear turbans. Boys in grade one through six will wear black turbans, higher grades will wear white. All boys will wear Islamic clothes. Shirt collars will be buttoned.
Singing is forbidden.
Dancing is forbidden.
Playing cards, playing chess, gambling, and kite flying are forbidden.
Writing books, watching films, and painting pictures are forbidden.
If you keep parakeets, you will be beaten. Your birds will be killed.
If you steal, your hand will be cut off at the wrist. If you steal again, your foot will be cut off.
If you are not Muslim, do not worship where you can be seen by Muslims. If you do, you will be beaten and imprisoned. If you are caught trying to convert a Muslim to your faith, you will be executed.
Attention women:
You will stay inside your homes at all times. It is not proper for women to wander aimlessly about the streets. If you go outside, you must be accompanied by a mahram (a male relative). If you are caught alone on the street, you will be beaten and sent home.
You will not, under any circumstance, show your face. You will cover with burqa when outside. If you do not, you will be severely beaten.
Cosmetics are forbidden.
Jewelry is forbidden.
You will not wear charming clothes.
You will not speak unless spoken to.
You will not make eye contact with men.
You will not laugh in public. If you do, you will be beaten.
You will not paint your nails. If you do you will lose a finger.
Girls are forbidden from attending school. All schools for girls will be closed immediately.
Women are forbidden from working.
If you are found guilty of adultery, you will be stoned to death.
Listen. Listen well. Obey. Allah-u-akbar.
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Comments: 57
I mean, look at our 'fearless leader' snicker apart from the Saudis, he's ready to go to war with the whole damn region... one country at a time.
Singing is forbidden.
Dancing is forbidden.
Some of the most haunting music comes from the middle east and muslim culture.
The core of Sufism* revolves around a form of dance.
*Sufis are an Islamic offshoot, for any who were not sure...
In summation, I believe the Afghani leadership at that time to be Ignorant, uneducated leaders, fearful of women.
BTW there have been many Christians ( or so they claim) that have been just as bad, remember James Town ?
Vivian, the claim by Muslims that they have a right to be terrible because others were terrible in the past is BS.
John, I agree with you, regular Muslims do support the radical ones by not purging them from their own ranks. The probem is blaming them for something they cannot see how to do or gather the power to do is counter-productive. It is like saying that Germans were responsible for Hitler ... of course they were, but there was also nothing that they could do about it.
This always seems to start with the weak and dependent, women and children, and work its way up from there. I was for attacking the Taliban when they destroyed the statues of Buddha in the mountains. Think of how different the world would be today if the Western nations had done something about something that was obviously wrong, and an action and a warning to all civilizations.
In order to survive there has to be an understanding of what is demanded of us in terms to stopping criminal or pathological bahavior at the country level. It is much easier to sink into the couch and turn to the remote.
Our entire culture is based on the "King of the Hill Syndrome." Arrogance, greed, hubris, the symptoms of a disease that brings little beyond disaster. As a nation we are not only willing to exploit resorces, we are willing to enslave others for our own leisure. The enemy is the drive to dominate.
Peter, Yes, start a movement man, others will follow. (except for the Boy George part).
Yeah, nothing new there, but sometimes some people need to be reminded of some things.
The lesson?...
Blessings and best wishes - Sveta
This is a problem that will not go away anytime soon. It doesn't revolve solely around the Israeli/Palestinian crisis and this relationship of east vs. west does have roots in the Crusades. Exacerbated by Colonialism and fueled by money the House of Saud seeks to keep its throne after the warning of the deposement of the Shah.
There are a lot of players in this game and the threads have become hopelessly tangled. Simply it is a bloody mess.
But I get your point, that war is waged on those who fail to percieve the danger soon enough to prepare.
Were it not for the tremendous importance of the oil reserves of Saudi Arabia to the US economy, we would have very little in common with that authoritarian and backward looking regime. In fact, this is a very good argument for finding a way to become less dependent on their oil reserves. As if climate change were not a good enough reason in itself.
I say: under the current admin it will never happen,nor if McCain is elected because they are thick like thieves with the Saudis....
personally, I feel "man-made religion" has induced more division than unity throughout time....I will never comprehend such laws as you list above...and how anyone on the planet can interpret them as humane???
thx for the head's up mail...cheers,gayle
*click my name and go peek out my Jack n' Jill article....i think you might get a chuckle or two from it ;>
Completely untrue.
Saddam Hussien embraced radical Islam, and radical Islamists to shore up support for his regime in the wake of the first Gulf War. In 1991, the Iraqi national flag was changed to include the words Allaahu Akbar - in Saddam's own handwriting.
The notion that radical islam just happened to "appear out of nowhere" in Iraq after the U.S. invasion is absurd. The reason the place has always been a powder keg is its deeply rooted tradition of radical islam.
Fanaticism isn't just in places like the mid-east. It seems to cross all boundaries of nations and people. Sad isn't it? Varying degrees of bad within the worse? Sure. I do agree that things like Nazism, Al Queada, Totalitarism are worse.
While I am not a proponent of isolationist mode, I do feel strongly we should first work on our country and our citizens to make it better. While I can understand assisting other countries, and 'protecting' the world it shouldn't be the main focus. There's so much that is need here in our country. I would think at least our citizens would have more appreciation for the focus.
I agree with you, and Chris and others have also said that much of the problem lies with the Wahabbi centers in Saudi Arabia. btw, thanks for your heads up on the J & J article. I left a comment.
Actually, Im not sure where "up to a point" comes in, because I agree with you comment. Unless you mean going in to Iran with troops. That I think would be a total disaster, and not only because of the Iranians who would die. We should find some "intelligent" way (not easy now with the boob in the white house) to help the very large number of young anti-Islamists in Iran to take back their country. This worked in Eastern Europe, and it could work in Iran.
Sia, sometimes I think we should leave the whole region alone, let them all fight it out. But I suppose we really cant do that. Too much is at stake. So we need some good ideas, a little knowledge about the realities of the region, and a plan. (How many months until November??)
I believe at this point if I recall correctly, learning something from the Arab oil embargo of the past, that we only get approximately 16% of our supplies from them now anyway(?). It's hard to put an exact finger on probably.
Anyway, my point is being energy dependant from the middle east, wouldn't naturally result in huge foreign policy changes by the US to the middle east.
> No rational comment can combat the irrational hatred espoused
> by the Taliban. This extreme militant sect of Islam has nothing
> to do with the what the majority of Muslims practice.
This is a nice sentiment, but I honestly do not believe it.
I am not saying that any particular Muslim on the planet
would agree with terrorism or be a terrorist. What I am
pointing at is the lack of effective influence and money in
the Muslim world of the non-radical, non-fundamental
members of Islam.
Analogizing this to Germany, there became a point, when
Germany starting preparing for battle and annexing
bordering countries that all Germans became the enemy.
Not legally or morally, I am not saying there were no
good Germans, in fact most people are good people,
they just find themselves in a morally uprooted place
and do not know what to do, since most people have to
be followers in life to survive.
I think Islam would have stopped these radicals if they
wanted to and had a chance. The problem is the most
concentrated wealth and power in the world emanates
from the center of this world, Saudi Arabia, and the oil
producing countries.
They have the world dependent on them by the greediness
of those in the rest of the world who were bought and
sold for addicting their countries to crude oil energy.
They have won wars against superpowers.
How could an average Muslim with no education, and
with a virtual totalitarian belief system implanted into
them from a young age think anything but that Allah
wants Islam to dominate the world, and the trend
will increase as the tension and pressures increase.
The culture of radical Islam must be destroyed for
Western culture and Democracy to survive in my
opinion.
Look at the money power and influence these people
have and what we know of it, and then think about
what is probably going on behind the scenes in government,
media, business.
Some years ago the US government classified the
information of how much money is invested in the US
by Saudi Arabia. Our own government does not want
the people to know that we have been bought out.
In order to survive we will somehow have to figure
out a way to crawl outside our own corrupt built up
structure of money, and laws that have for so long
now been threaded with the seeds that will lead
to our surrender in order to maintain our comfortable
continuous lives.
Personally, being acquainted with peoples of many faiths I do not concur. Crises occur regularly, especially in religion. The history of Christianity is bedeviled with many less than stellar moments. It might behoove us all to consider some of the darker moments of our respective histories and perhaps gain some perspective.
As far as me being branded with the same terms, 911 proved that we all are being branded with those terms if they can to get at us.
This history of Christianity right now is just that - history, what is going on in Islam is something that is happening right now, and something has to be done about.
I doubt you are aquainted with radical Muslims in their habitat as well.
I merely wanted to point out that demonizing a group of people due to the activities of the fringe members is not only grossly unfair, but wrong. My apologies if I misinterpreted your comment, but I believe the comment is a fair one to those who do adhere to it.
It will not much matter whether it is fair or not when the Iran gets the hell bombed out of them because of their government, or any number of things.
I do not demonize Muslims. I know Muslims and have worked with them. So far as I know none of them were terrorists. The problem is that none of them really verbally talk about how bad the terrorists are.
While you are harping on what is fair or might hurt some virtual somebody's feelings, the march of history moves forward. Every time some American or Westerner makes apologies for the Radical Muslims in the many ways we do, it sends the wrong message to all of those Muslims who are not yet radicallized.
The fact is that 911 was a new level in terror.
Muslims have been persecuting non-Muslims for century, with a team spirit that is unrivaled in history, even by Christians.
Ever wonder why Turkey is so adamant about denying the Armenian genocide, or making sure the Kurds do not get a homeland?
It fits with the whole history of the Islamic region, in expansionist political mode. The Muslims have attacked non-Muslims in their lands since Islam existed, and they feel, or it is written that such is entirely acceptable.
As a woman, you should at least want to give equal time to compassion for those that might be treated unfairly in a conversation versus those women or non-Muslims or "infidels" whose lives, liberty and property are at stake every day of their lives because they lives in a place where human rights is a bad joke made at the expense of those who have none.
And more to the point, after reviewing the missteps in foreign policy over the past 35 years (approx.) I have serious doubts whether or not our country has the ability to do anything more significant than "fight" in the region. I'd like to think our government has better intelligence than the general public is privy to, but after this last misstep with Iraq I am wondering, and worrying.
I digress. You can not bequeath freedom on a people; they have to claim it for themselves. People in the region need to decide what they want and act. Creating a line in the sand where you say, "Pick a side" to the non-radical Muslims is a poor strategy.
Thanks.
> need to take overt military action, I don't think we are there
> yet.
I think the world has been there for decades, there is no good
way to take action to get at the real culprits who are using
Islam in an evil totalitarian way.
Because we have waited, been tolerant, held off to see what
will happen, we now have a crisis on our hands. Our oil
support and economy is at risk. A whole country and people,
Israel, is at stake, as well as the symbol or tolerance and
multi-culturalism.
It is absurd how Muslims come to the West and demand
we tolerate them when they brainwash their people to
hate and kill non-Muslims.
No, I am well ready for war with Iran, Syria, Hamas,
Hezbollah, and the intolerant systems in Saudi Arabia,
Bangladesh, and radical Islam anywhere it seeks to
establish itself on the planet.
I think this not because I hate Muslims, or want war,
my firm belief is that this is the only way to limit
casualties ... it only gets worse as time goes by and
the threat gets bigger ... and save lives and freedoms.
Who on Earth wants to sentence everyone on this
planet to security measures like 911, and limited
freedom in the name of providing tolerance to
countries that have no human rights by their very
nature.
However, we need to be focused on the individuals involved. Carpet bombing Afghani towns is not an effective method against Taliban officials. Using the transgressions of a small radical group (Al Qaeda) as an excuse to attack Iraq is a misuse of power, along the same sorts of lines of those we oppose.
If we want to be effective in fighting dangerous organizations, we must work intelligently, surgically, and minimize making enemies of those who otherwise would not wish us harm, as well as providing fact to back the propaganda of those enemies. We talk carelessly about collateral damage. That kind of cavalier attitude is entirely incompatible with being on the moral high ground.
The more we characterize large groups by the despicable actions of a few, the more we are party to making it so. And the closer our own actions are to those we despise.
"In order to survive we will somehow have to figure
out a way to crawl outside our own corrupt built up
structure of money, and laws that have for so long
now been threaded with the seeds that will lead
to our surrender in order to maintain our comfortable
continuous lives."
Please read Larry Mason's novel, Invisible Hand available here in it's entirety, for free.
Join the group, POM EDUCATION. It's about the nature and consequences of our money, referred to as a physical object money (POM).
Larry wrote in a fiction form story, in order to demonstrate this idea he has that may be the answer to our problems. With what is coming in the world, it may be a God-send.
This time I dont agree with you. I am not a fan of Christian, Jewish or Hindu fundamentalism. And we can certainly find all kinds of evil that such groups are responsible for. But that is not the point. During the two years of the Hitler Stalin Pact, American communists were suddenly saying that Nazism wasnt so bad and that American capitalism was just as bad. It wasnt true, Nazism was far worse than anything. We are now in the same situation. The rise of extreme Islamic fundamentalism is the true modern enemy of all humans, very analagous to the Nazis. The list of rules posted in the article cannot be dismissed. Those rules were followed, resulting the death, torture and terror of a population for years. Nothing comes close. And if we close our eyes to this, we will be in grave danger.
I've argued before that the best way for us to fight this brand of fundamentalism is to get out of their world. Terrorism has always been a tactic used by a lesser power to fight a greater power, which is an occupying presence. It has always been used against an occupying force. That is why I emphasize (one reasons at least) that I focus so much on energy - particularly renewables. As long as we are dependent on oil, we will have to have some presence in the mideast - and therefore, a target for terrorists.
So, maybe I am disagreeing with you to the extent that the "real enemy" doesn't have anything to do with religion at all. The threat to us has more to do with energy. In that sense, not solving our energy problems is more of a threat to us than fundamentalists.
BTW, the reason that fundamentalists don't have more influence in this country is because of our relative properity. Don't think we're superior. Nothing fuels fundamentalism like misery.
It is foolish to be depended on their oil, no doubt about that. But we and the whole world are, and they have the world by the balls. I am not a imperialist, but I have to say were I able to go back in time and set up the Middle East under Western or UN administration after WWII I would not hesitate.
We have this thing in the US where we look at the advice that MacArthur, LeMay, and some other of our great military commanders gave us to fight our enemies while we were strong and they were weak. If we blow ourselves up in the near future, once and for all we will realize ... postumously that the ends can justify the means.
The world get smaller every day, and our punches and anger and disagreements get bigger ... we just could not have forseen that happening, only a military mind would see that and after the war, everyone hates them.