Conservatives, who seem to oppose the idea that no one's health should ever be a matter of their ability to pay, have been banging the alarm gongs just as fast and loud as they can, before the fight has even been joined. The problem with that is that, as usual, they fudge a lot. We need to know and get the truth out there to those they seek to deceive. Here's a link from Think Progress that lays out the lies. The Article
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More by Ron (in complete sheeple overload) W. |
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Comments: 59
Col George,
The US does not have the best health care system in the world. But what it does have is pockets of excellence, and those pockets do indeed offer the best of what America has - if you can afford it that is. For the rest, there is a large see of mediocricity and old-fashioned techniques. Patients from abroad come to the pockets of excellence not to the mediocre hospitals. In fact, you may be familiar with the term "medical tourism". Medical tourism is the practice where patients go to a different country to have health care delivered there because it is cheaper despite the costs of flying to and from the destination.
Obama has made it abundently clear that it is not Single Payer.
Yes I will keep what I have because I get excellent care.
This doesn't solve the system wide issues of over regulation and inflated costs but it is a solution that leaves the hands of the knuckleheads in Washington off. You are being completely dishonest and disengenuos to claim that conservatives don't care simply because they don't agree with your socialised approach solution. Politics od fear and smear my friend.
No system is perfect but at least in Canada everybody has health care!
I am so sick and tired of the brainwashed masses in this country, who have never actually lived or worked in Canada spouting off about the poor health care in Canada!
Having lived and worked as an RN in both the US and Canada see my article here I can speak from experience... Canada's Health care system is far from perfect but it beats the lack of Health care provided in this country to those who lack $$$! Talk to an uninsured American about how long it took them to get affordable, if any treatment for their Cancer or any other long term illness.
Thank you for the link Ron, I only wish that those who needed to would read this with their minds open...
Regulations only work if they are enforced Ron. What happened to the Taft/Hartley act to let them get "too big to fall"?
The fact is, that up until the Republican congress got their hands on it, I can't say now, the Medicare system was a virtual model of efficiency, and health care professionals and experts all over this country have noted that we could save a large amount (I'm thinking it was at least 25%, and it may even have been a third) over the bloated insurance company's administration model just by instead adopting their model.
I almost missed this. Jeff, are you aware of the minuscule percentage (varies with who you ask, but it's still a minuscule amount of the total) that lawsuits comprise of the total health care dollar in this country? That's a disingenuous argument. What you would be better served to cite is the bloated malpractice insurance premiums insurance companies in this country use that minuscule percentage to justify.
We do not have such a plan.
Really, we don't.
Then you haven't looked at too many, John. We are one of the only first world countries that does not have universal health care, at this point, and for every one you guys point to and say "looky there, it's a mess", there are many more doing just fine. Look at France, or several of the Scandinavian countries, for example. In the meantime, our health care system costs us obscenely more, and rates disgracefully lower, on the quality of care scale, than a few second and third world countries.
As far as I know, we don't even have a solidified plan at all, and that is what needs to be done. I know Obama has a plan, but I doubt it will even resemble what we will end up with. Obviously, you are probably right, but I'd throw in a few other components of the health care monster, as well, such as medical equipment companies. Let's just see where this leads, and try to put pressure on our representatives to get it right. It will take that to break the pharm, doctor's, and a mass of other lobbys, arrayed against any plan. Our nation's health depends on it, literally. Seen the statistics about how many are now, or will soon be facing no coverage, with all the massive lay offs?
Well, I'm not doing the "right" thing in a debate by turning to philosophy, but the "pigs" in the machine are the humans. And there isn't much of a way to eradicate that. As long as people can make money off of other people's health (or lack of), there will be exploitation, with or without a watchful government.
We must provide health care for all, not just those who can afford to pay for it.
Social Security
Conservatives(Capitalists) are opposed to any costs to business.
There has been a 40 year long campaign to "re-educate" the U.S. public to eliminate any idea that is "anti" business.
No environment protection
No OSHA
No benefits for employees except the very top.
including vacations, health care, sick pay, etc.
No minimum wage
etc.
The most frightening thing was how easy by adapting the religion/prayer-in-schools, anti-abortion, creationism in public education.
The conservaties, Republicans, and Libertarians were able to get very poor working people to vote for them and their ideas.
Especially since many of the religious voters are on Social Security, the Federal Welfare program called SSI, Workers Comp. benefits. etc.
However
If they can be kept tuned into Limbaugh, Hannity, Savage, Levine, et all.
These very poor people will continue to vote for the pro business conservatives.
All in the name of religion. . .
Believe me, if a progra is devised that is paid entirely by after wage taxes, they will go for it.
The goal is to relieve business of any environmental/social responsibilities.
As you probably notice many anti national health care conservatives site the "failure" of the Canadian plan as a reason to oppose a single payer program in the U.S.
The people of Canada are not clammoring to get rid of their health program, only U.S. Conservatives are clamoring for an end to the Canadian program.
I felt it needed a bit of exposure. We are about to see the most expensive negative campaign since the elections, by those with vested interests in it not being adopted, so a little pre-campaign dose of truth can only help, I hope.
But I like the new Buddy-pic.
Yeah well Nanci Pelosi and Barney Franks told you this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxMInSfanqg
The CYA maneuver Bush took on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is hardly a thing to point to. The bill never even got out of committee, in a Congress that you folks controlled, that if it had been serious, at all, would have danced through like every other Bush agenda, give me a break. Bush was on record early on in wanting to abolish FM&FM, but couldn't get the job done. The fix was already in, and this was just going to be one little bonus point, not the main event. They knew that if and when this pig blew up, they could fallaciously point at the two, when anyone that bothers to investigate the real cause of this mess knows that FM&FM merely played by the same fast and loose rules that the BA, through their own deregulation created, and were not the cause of it, or the only participant. As you should know, there were more than a few financial giants bailed out at taxpayer expense, and others folded. Hardly just FM&FM, in point of fact, all mortgage market segments suffered the same fate. Pelosi or Frank didn't need to tell me anything, I've been following this red herring since the early days when the state AGs all over this country filed cases against the BA headed fed releasing the federal banks from state oversight. There was a general consensus then that we were headed for a fall, but no one listened, least of all the Bush stacked SCOTUS. To point to a weak and purposely failed CYA feint at regulation of FMs as the cause, not the result of BA negligence is frankly weak. To try to tell anyone that if they had wanted to pass that regulation in a congress the Republicans shoved bill after bill through, over Democratic objections, is deluded at best, and democratic cluelessness had nothing to do with it, though it existed. Open your eyes to the fact that this was another big gift to Bush's Wall street cronies, and get over yourself.
I am one who sits back comfortably with an excellent health care plan. About 8 or 9 months ago, there was a malignant tumor in my body, the size of a football, and growing very quickly. Were it not removed QUICKLY, I most certainly would have died.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH, EXCELLENT HEALTH CARE PLAN.
Just because I'm well provided for, does not make me insensitive to the needs of those without.
My thoughts are these:
A war that should have never been authorized, and never been waged? How much money have those who have no health care benefits contributed to that war?
The NASA space program. How much money have those who have no health care benefits contributed to that?
Pork barrel spending. How much money have those who have no health care benefits contributed to that?
The President, the Congress, AND let us NOT forget the "Supremes". Those who have NO heath care benefits pay their expenses, too. Why? Why should they?
Collect all these monies, apply it to a National Health Care Program, so that ALL AMERICANS are insured first, then and ONLY then shall funds be available for what are essentially UNNECESSARY programs. THAT is how you take care of your Citizenry.
Health is a necessity; flexing your muscle to prove you're the baddest cowboy in the Wild, Wild West is NOT a necessity.
As fascinating, educational, and scientific as it might be, space exploration is NOT necessary, not if that money may be used for the health benefits of your Citizenry.
Roads going to nowhere, and wooden arrows for children, to satisfy the wooden arrow industry are NOT necessary; the health of your Citizenry IS necessary.
This concept is NOT hard.
What makes it so evil is that the United States is one of the, if not THE wealthiest country in the world, but places such a low value on its own Citizenry that it does not see fit to provide an essential -- health care. Yet, the GRRRREAT, compassionate, philanthropic United States of America would, and HAS sent billions upon billions of $$$$ to other countries in aid to help others,
meanwhile, back at home on the ranch, the fires are going out, as their own people are dying off due to a lack of health care, and why?
WHY?
The medical problem is multi faceted, just like our curent economic woes.
Get private insurance companies to have fair premiums. Get rid of unlimited medical lawsuits. Crack down on the pharmaceutical run away profits and price gouging, AUDIT the hospitals. Educate the public that we don't NEED a pill or expensive test for every sniffle!
Individuals should understand that as we PAY for our own food, housing, transportation, we should share in PAYING for our medical. Historically, under full insurance, too many people ran to the doctor/hospital when it really isn't necessary!
And yes, get rid of the pork barrell junk, outreach to foreign countries and other wasted government spending and subsidize SOME medical costs/research. WRITE your congresmen to "clean up their messes".
Most of all countries have some form of socialized medicine except us. So we are right and they are wrong.
And for the people who dont want the government involved in your healthcare...as it is now some pimply faced 18 year old CSR at Blue Cross is now controlling your healthcare..comforting isnt it?
Yes, please do, and you'll find you are wrong about much of that. Ask even the ones that do complain if they'd prefer to have no medical coverage, while you're at it, because for many, that is the only option. Then take a look at the many more foreign countries, as I said above, that have gotten it right, and none of what you have noted applies. Medicare has had conservatives doing everything they can to undermine it for eight years now, give me a break. Great Britain and Canada, the supposed source of many of these stories cited by conservatives, have both had conservative governments that have sought to ruin the systems, and even after the degradation of services they have managed, there is no outcry for it's abolishment, in either country. Long waiting lists, despite the many stories with apparently little or no foundation, apply to only elective procedures, in my search for any basis for them. There have been, I am sure, a few mistakes, but I couldn't trace any down. If there are, it is the exception, not the rule. SS payment? What does that even mean? If you meant Medicare, the efforts to drag it down by instituting the measures Bush has pushed to bleed it dry, such as that monstrosity of a drug plan that prohibits using the vast customer base to lower prices, and actually pays pharm companies millions a year to "encourage" them to not raise prices, not "require" them not to, have had their effects, yes, but that can be remedied. Bush lied about the costs of the program to congress, and actually threatened one government employee with termination if he revealed the truth to them, before it was passed. Before Bush got his paws on it, it was widely recognized as a model of efficiency. As for unlimited lawsuits, as I noted above, when you check into the truth of the massive blame that has been heaped upon the right of patients to sue for negligent and malicious blundering, for the bloated health costs here, you find that it makes up a negligible part of our total health care dollar, despite the wide dissemination of the few "worst cases" that are harped, over and over, to feed that lie. You recite the mantra well, but it's not the truth, not by half.
I was sooooooo ill, and I as said before, the doctors expected me to die. I'm not speaking of the cancer issue, but of a previous problem, the one where the so-called "experts" kept saying, "the etiology is unknown".
Oh, but it WAS known; it just was NOT KNOWN to traditional medicine. However, the holistic doctor that I mention from time to time, Dr. Becker, called it, and called it without even knowing he was diagnosing my problem. The problem began with drugs -- steroids, to be exact, AND my failure to continue consuming a certain milk product (yogurt) which contained something E-S-S-E-N-T-I-A-L for good health and long life. It's called,
lacto bacillus,
and my calling myself being "cute" and cutting out all milk products -- yogurt included -- really cost me a great deal; it cost me MY HEALTH!
Half of the time I did not know whether I was alive or dead. Guess what? I am a Medicare (I think it's Medicare) recipient. But, here's the thing:
I do NOT use the benefits, or rarely do I use the benefits. Do you want to know why?
The benefits I receive as a retiree (because of the illness and having to retire) are so much better than Medicare, why use those? Still, they are available to me. Here is my point:
Double coverage for some. Zero coverage for others.
I'm not really sure how the thing works since I'm nowhere near 65. My friends say there is no eligibility age when disability is in play. Hey, I don't know. I only know that all Americans should and could be covered, IF a Hillary Clinton, or somebody(ies) sat down with representatives from those 47 million that Ron mentioned, and did something.
At one point, my friend Shawn got me involved in a private sector business that offered excellent coverage to what was then 46 million Americans who were not covered under any medical plan. It was an excellent plan, too. The problem was that the owners were corrupt, and when I found out, I OPTED OUT, and did so very quickly. I want to help people, but when you learn that there is corruption at the top, there's bound to be corruption in what is seemingly a good plan, even if you don't see it. I want NO PART of corruption and/or dishonesty -- PERIOD. THE END.
Being the American "rah, rah" cheerleader, and Patriot that I am, and even though I did not have much to work with, I attempted to debate them on this, but again, their arguments were very convincing that Sweden's health care system was much less primitive than ours, and certainly more catering to the needs of their Citizenry.
I cannot speak to Britain and Canada.
Not only did Svante (my brother-in-law) believe our health care system stank, he also wasn't that crazy about America, and the way she treated some of its citizenry, meaning the poor, the working class, AND in particular his wife. He noticed that his appearance -- platinum blonde, and blue eyes was an American ideal and was amazed that HE -- being a foreigner -- was treated soooo well, while his wife -- a natural-born Citizen was treated much, much worse, and he thought Americans over-emphasized his "beautiful" outward appearance; he got tired of it.
His friends from Sweden begin to feel the same way, and left the United States feeling that way. His friend, Lars, (oooooh, naughty, naughty Lars) did something very naughty before HE left.
Svante stayed just long enough to settle some affairs for my sister. He did vow that when he left that he was never, ever, again returning to this place (the United States), except for maybe Alaska. Well, he got all the business matters handled, and he DID leave, and he has kept that vow; he had NOT returned, nor has he any plans to return.
Not everybody believes that the United States method of health care is working.
There are those who have experienced our method, compared it with theirs, and found our method wanting.
There ARE what some called "civilized" countries out there, such as Britain, Canada, and Sweden, that have universal health care plans/insurance/coverage, and their citizens seem to be pleased with it; additionally, those people -- like Svante -- have had the opportunity to sample both their plan and the U.S. plan, and make a decision as to which they believe is best. In Svante's case, he said Sweden's plan was far more superior.
My own comment is this: enough of the talk about universal health coverage being welfare, or a "gimme". Until corporations stop asking for, and receiving "bailouts", which IS euphemistic for "GIMME" and WELFARE,
until any and EVERYONE stop receiving SUBSIDIES -- another euphemism for "GIMME" and WELFARE,
until EVERY public servant goes to work, and foots ALL their own expenses, instead of Mr. and Ms. Taxpayer footing their bills (we are giving THEM WELFARE,
don't breathe a word to me about any quote -- WELFARE -- end of quote.
It is all nothing but a bunch of foolishness, and one of the reasons that people like Svante and his friends nearly fly themselves in FLYING to the airports to get back to their own countries to get away from this country's hypocrisy.