I'm a Fighting Liberal, and Proud of What that Means

My book, "Invisible Hand" seems to find support among conservatives (libertarians anyway) and I think it will find support among liberals as well. Would you be so kind as to read at least part of it and tell me what you think? I have published it here on Gather so it should be easy to find and I have also published it at:

http://www.unc.edu/~mason/hand.html

where there are no ads if you prefer that mode.

The book provides what I believe to be a solution for most of the problems we face.

You sound like a bitter, frustrated person who won't face the truth -- sorry!

Ron -

This Greg Smith guy looks new, but he seems to know you quite well....LOL.

A "fighting Liberal" means that you've learned to take the smackdown without crying.

Actually Greg, I've often thought the same about you.

I'm new to this liberal point of view seeing I was a moderate republican all my adult life ... but I am getting to like this liberal point of view more and more. However I will return to the Republican party the minute all the neocons have been exiled to Theran.

Excellent and very true.

Truth , something bert can't comprehend.

Happy New(Democratic landslide 2008) year.

Bretboy,
If you haven't run into Greg before this, you really do live in your own little bubble. He's one of the best of the obfuscation artists for your little pack of liars and thieves, here on Gather. Not one of my favorites, of course, but a whole six or seven levels above your drivel.

Patrick C.,
I might join you, given that being a done deal. I was a Republican most of my life, and only left when it became the party that represented the rich and corporate, exclusively.

Not a very good defination of a Liberal to my way of thinking. It takes credit for things the Liberals never did. i.e.. the civil rights movement. As to the Republican party there has been a big change in that organization to the point that they are Neocon
Fundie Republicans not true Republicans. Makes me right glad I am a Ron Paul Republican.

The current problems with One Worldism and Globalism crosses party lines. Therefore one can not in good consience vote a party line. Every single one of the so called front runners are no better than Bush & Co warmed over.

It was years of rant and hate that turned the meaning of that word, Liberal.
How did the left allow this to happen.
I Laughed so hard when, during the debate, they asked Hill if she was a Liberal. She is now a Progressive. How many more years of rant and hate will it take them to turn that word?
Great article though, I thought of the same message for years.

"You sound like a bitter, frustrated person who won't face the truth -- sorry!"

You want to hear bitter or not face the truth, listen to Hate Talk radio with Rush Limpaugh or Michael Savage (real last name, Weiner)
These guys hide from opposing views because they can't face the truth.
There is nobody to call them on their lies so their mindless minions sometimes cut and paste their rants here, where they are savaged (pun intended) by the left.
Not sorry.

The Republicans (not necessarily conservatives) have destroyed our liberties. As a complete centrist, I agree with the article on some points. It is important to realize that most people aren't liberal or conservative. Most people are smack in the middle. Most people don't want to make abortion illegal even though they wish that there were less abortions. Most people are coming out for health care reform as the current system isn't working. Most people want the Iraq war to end. Most people are interested in the economy working for everybody once again. If these are liberal ideas than I don't understand the system. In fact, they are centrist.

There's some great points in the article. Liberals created this nation to begin with. It was conservatives who aligned themselves with GB and did not want to birth a new nation. Liberals have always led the way for great, positive change, while conservatives, by their own very nature, have resisted.

Basically, the entire core structure of this nation that is seen around the world as greatness is a direct result of liberal progress. If conservatives got their way, and it appears that they're well on their way to accomplishing this entirely, we'll be returned to a feudal society, in which the vast majority of the nation slaves to provide oppulence and comfort for the elite.

And, it's no secret that republicans have to lie about their agenda. They wouldn't be able to get anyone but the elite to vote for them, if they masses knew what their agenda really was. It appears now, at least, that the independent voters have figured this out now, and have swung decidedly left.

Another thing, and perhaps the most disturbing aspect of republicanism is the shameless cowardice. When did America become a nation of sniveling cowards? Remember when Bush actually told people to wrap their houses in plastic sheeting and duct tape, and there were some who actually did it? Notice how willing the republicans are to hand over our civil liberties, in exchange for a false sense of security? Remember what Franklin said about those that surrender personal liberties for a false sense of security? They deserve neither.

Republicans don't deserve this nation. They've hated America since before it was even created, and have done nothing ever since but try to undermine American ideals and tear us apart.

Look at the stark contrast in campaign strategies. Liberal embrace all, and attempt to unite. Conservatives divide, using religion, sexual preference, and skin color to infuse and spread hatred, bigotry, and intolerance. Republicans are incapable of winning an election without these divisive wedge tactics. They seek to minimize voter turnout, because the more people who vote, the more who vote against them. That's why they oppose motor voter laws, and why they engage in illegal caging tactics, to identify and disenfranchise black voters, who vote predominately democratic.

The republican party is openly the party of racism and division. What a shameful legacy to cling to. The democratic party, even with all of its recent faults, is the party of inclusion, optimism, courage, strength, and wisdom, specifically because of the liberal roots. I'm damn proud to be a liberal. If liberalism was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me.

Ron.....I hate to break it to you btu you're not a liberal.

You're a leftist or a "moonbat," if you will.

So is Clark.

I hope you guys have fun ruining another national election for the Dems this November.

Terrific article. Count me in as a fighting liberal, too. I used to be an independent until I realized that the God Squad was about to take over the country. So I became a Democrat, officially, because I believe in what they stand for.

The Rs? The so-called "conservatives"? They conserve nothing, all they seem to want is to send us all back to the 18th century. They want liberty? Since when does "liberty" mean "theocratic dictatorship"?

How did Ann Coulter crawl out of the woodwork? Why does Rush Lamebrain still get away with inventing his own facts to support his bloviations? Even the self-styled "strict constructionist" judges are reactionaries, and if Scalia, Thomas, Roberts and Alito aren't "activist judges" then I'm the Queen of Romania.

Grrr.

Look at Dana's rant. Stolen from hate radio because he is too stupid to think for himself.
How can we fight such an articulate person?
I'll bet he is sitting there all smug, I showed them commie rats. They'll be smarting for a long time from the pounding I gave them.

Oh, I wish we still had the old "conservatives". I think both liberals and conservatives have done good things for this country.

If we still had the old school, small government, fiscally responsible conservatives, I could live with all of it. We'd all be debating about different things, but the country would still be moving forward and the pendulum would still work.

Unfortunately, these new conservative neocons are a disgrace. Anyone who calls themselves a liberal, libertarian or an old school conservative should be up in arms and fighting.

Don't pay any attention, Ron. You rule! Loved that link, copied it into an email and sent it to my kids and friends. Then I got inspired and wrote an article about the same.

Oh! And I nominate 'Clark Kent' above for President!

Goodness Dana. Have you ever tried discussing without resorting to name calling and profanity? Mainstream doesn't mean patting yourself on the back to the point of getting tennis elbow while swearing a blue streak at anyone who dares disagree with you. But then you knew that, didn't you?

Mainstream America is centrist for the main part. They don't want extremists of either side of the spectrum. You are, from what I can tell from your rantings, what my son calls a RINO.

What a potti mouth , that shows his genius..............................

Cat B., I'm with you on wishing we had the old Republicans back, for exactly the reasons you give. I used to be able to vote for the person not the party because candidates seemed to agree on what was good for the country and disagree only on how to achieve that good.

As for today's Republicans - I can't even use that name. I call them Repugnants now.

I even miss Barry Goldwater although I thought he was wrong about darn near everything.

Ron -

If Greg Smith has your panties in a wad, then he's probably a reasonable guy. Sorry, I've never run into him before - this is a big site. I hope to see him put you over his knee and give you a paddling soon.........because you deserve it. LOL

Notice how Dana/Lex/BabyHughy immediately stepped up to prove my point about republicans seeking to divide with hatred and intolerance? So predictable.

Dana, removed your comment due to cussing, and no other reason, because it showed your intellect, very well. Wish it hadn't had the cuss words in it, and you can recomment saying the same thing, without it, if you wish. Your Choice.

Ron like the sentiment dont like the comment removing but it is your article after all so who am I to judge. If someone says something like cussing on mine I just self flag....food for thought.

Bretboy, Greg does not have anyone's "Panties in a wad" But that's typical of your commentary, now isn't it? When you and Dana there become able to debate without the childish insults, possibly you might, and that's a big might, come up to Greg's level, but I doubt you ever could.

Lori,
He's welcome to re-express himself without the four letter words. Why should I flag an article for him? If I flag an article, it's going to be because I'm the one cussing, and he can do the same. Not my problem he can't hold a civil tongue, now is it? I have continually had problems with Conservatives flagging my articles for cussing, why wouldn't I delete a comment from them on my articles, before some other conservative can come along and flag it?

Ron -

I like Greg already. If he's 'above my level' in putting you and your ilk in line, then I'm going to enjoy his commentary immensely.

And Ron, I don't need to swear or cuss at you to label you correctly. You're not all bent out of shape over me calling you a Left Wing nutjob, are you?

I'm never phased by any of your swill, Bretboy, it's all meant to chide and insult, and has no relationship with reality, as you don't. Greg has had no more success than you have, and it's simply because conservative arguments are fatally flawed in the first place, but I doubt either of you know, or would admit it. As far as cussing, I didn't much care about that, either, till some cretin started flagging my articles, using it as an excuse when what they really wanted to censor was ideas. I don't care about Dana's ideas, either, but I do care that several articles I put up have had his type spew hate on them, using curses, and then another loving brother of your type, came along and flagged my articles because of their words. May have even been the same one that cussed, as far as I know. He can say the same thing, without the four letter words, and I could care less.

Ron -

We Conservatives want you to know that there is an overwhelming force out here that will always oppose your Socialistic views. We look around the world and see how Socialism has failed, and we don't want that here. So we oppose your disproven ideology every time it pokes its head out of the sewer. We've just gotten really good at playing the 'whack-the-mole' game with you Lefties.

Fighting Liberal?????? If ever there was an oxymoron this one is the new winner. The left has never discovered a cause worth fighting for. Or a war in which their solution for ending it to be admit defeat and quit. The Democrat party has gone so far away from what it once was that in todays political spectrum John Kennedy would be a moderate Republican. Forty five years ago he was considered very liberal. Today his policy of strong national defense and lowering taxes are positions sneered at by the left. If Ron and Clarke had been around in 1938 and their opinions were widely held we would all be speaking German and be blonde, blue WASPs...........

"If he's 'above my level'"

Unfortunately for all of us, "your level" is at par with the Dana's around here. You're pathetic.




"We Conservatives"

Wait a minute...you've repeatedly called yourself a democrat, even though every single word that you type is pure neocon bullshit. Now, you're suddenly a "conservative?" Wow, talk about strong integrity.





" Fighting Liberal?????? If ever there was an oxymoron this one is the new winner. "

Sorry, sparky, but liberals fought to create this nation. You're a guest. Don't ever forget that. We ALLOW you to be here, simply because we're not terrified of differing opinions, as you folks are.




" The Democrat party"

It's democratic. The word is an adjective in the manner in which you used it. That requires that you place an "ic" after the "t." It's called "English>" Learn it, or move to the country of your native tongue.




"If Ron and Clarke had been around in 1938 and their opinions were widely held we would all be speaking German and be blonde, blue WASPs"

Again, it was progressive liberals that led the march against Hitler, while you and your neocon butt pals traded with the enemy.

Apparently Chris, you never heard of Smedley Butler, and the attempted overthrow of the US government by Prescott Bush, George II's grandfather, and other respected conservatives, to install a fascist US government. A little historic research puts the lie to your comments, obviously. Hitler was the darling of conservatives eyes. Just as Bush has been in our day, whether you admit your support for him, now, or not. The oxymoron is conservative truth, and you and Bretboy could be poster children for that oxymoron.

Bretboy,
Socialized programs work for many modern governments, the world over, not the least of which is socialized medicine. For all the right's villification of it, it works to the benefit of all,and to great public acclaim in countries from Canada to Cuba, but, unfortunately, not in between......yet.

Clark Kent -

Bret : "We Conservatives"

Clark Kent : Wait a minute...you've repeatedly called yourself a democrat, even though every single word that you type is pure neocon bullshit. Now, you're suddenly a "conservative?" Wow, talk about strong integrity. "

How many times do I have to repeat this for you? I really do have to whack you on the head twice as hard when you pop up out of your hole.
I have made no secret of the fact that I have always been a Conservative first, and a Democrat next.

"Again, it was progressive liberals that led the march against Hitler, while you and your neocon butt pals traded with the enemy."

Clark, we Conservatives funded the Lend-Lease program while you pacifists were marching & picketing to keep us an isolationist nation in the 30's and early 40's. You guys even tried to keep us out of WWII after Pearl Harbor. Thankfully, the nation saw you for the sheep you are. We do today again.

Ron -

Smedley Butler was a frustrated ex-General who converted to the pacifist way of life after his discharge. The "attempted overthrow" of the FDR administration was a rumor that Butler tried to foist as reality. Why would anyone go to known pacifist Butler to lead an insurrection against FDR? Anyhow, it fizzled soon after Butler publicized the alleged plot.

Butler was well-decorated, and a hero with a gun in his hand. But when he got up on his soapbox and tried to air his innermost thoughts, he was a kook. Not all military men turn out to be John F. Kennedy, Ron.

Bretboy,
You write some pretty fractured fairy tales, but luckily the public history is available, and shows you to be the liar you are. The committee of the congress investigating Smedley Butler's allegations found him credible, and after interviewing many others involved, ruled a conspiracy to overthrow the government did indeed exist, and Bush's grandfather was in it up to his eyeballs, as were many wall street and banking leaders of the time. All confirmed conservatives. They were not prosecuted only because we were by then embroiled in WWII, and it would have hurt the war effort. They squeaked by, lucky, in other words. Your type was giving aid and comfort to the enemy, and supported Hitler right up to Pearl Harbor and beyond, until Germany declared war on us. Shameful heritage for your clan. Smedley Butler was a true patriot and hero, and the most respected military man alive, at the time. This is why they went to him, and you merely obfuscate. Liberals, not conservatives support this country because of it's foundation on freedom, while conservatives support only what they think will advantage them, be it the US government, or a fascist one. Lend Lease is a prime example, in that there was enormous profit to be had, and any enormous profit making program was going to be supported by these hypocrites, even though they supported Hitler. We see the same thing today. You and the rest of the Bush Brown shirt crowd should be ashamed of yourselves, as you have done more to injure this country than anyone could have ever dreamed. Financially, Constitutionally, and Legislatively, we find ourselves in dire straits, and it all lays at the door of the division and hatred you have spent years laying a foundation for. I can only hope the yin and yang of the universe heartily rewards you and your type's efforts.

Anyone interested in the Smedley Butler outing of conservative's attempted overthrow of the US Government on the eve of WWII, go:

http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474977070148&nav=Namespace

"How many times do I have to repeat this for you? I really do have to whack you on the head twice as hard when you pop up out of your hole.
I have made no secret of the fact that I have always been a Conservative first, and a Democrat next. "

You hold no views that fit in the least with Democratic platforms, and are only Democratic in that you assert yourself to be one. There is no evidence that you are, or ever were one. You're pathetic to even claim so. I have no idea why any democratic regional committee would have anything to do with you. I surely wouldn't, you're a viper in the grass, probably reporting back to the Republican party, and that's a fact.

Ron -

We used to be the party of reason.............we are no longer. I'm one of the many Conservative Democrats working to right that sinking ship.
I'm a JFK Democrat. I wish we had one of those today. However, based solely on his positions, JFK would be a Centrist today - and that does not square with the Leftist takeover of the Democratic party by folks like you, Ron. I'm sure you and your ilk would do to JFK today, if he were alive, what you've already done to Joe Lieberman.

And the reason I have a purpose, beyond my above stated "righting the ship" purpose is that I have financial talent, which is sorely lacking among Democratic finance committees nationwide. Too many Left Wing teachers and not enough accountants, of course.

You cant be a fighting liberal.. maybe a white flag waving liberal

Yahda, Yahda, Yahda, Bretboy,
You have more in common with Oswald, than you do Kennedy, as he also hated America. You wouldn't make a good dribble down a democrat's leg. As for you Publicless, that's typical of your idiocy, and let's see, is it possible Bretboy called you here, as his mindless accomplice, once again, to be his little yesman? That seems pretty likely, since you are very late to the ball. Publicless, you're not an alter ego of this idiot, are you? That would explain so much, as it's very difficult to tell you two idiots apart, in the first place.

Ron -

Now I see why you like Dennis Kucinich - you're the Dennis Kucinich of Gather. No matter what is said, he (and you) just continue talking. Even if it makes no sense.

You seem to get distracted easily, Ron. Once we comment, you lose focus and just start name-calling.

At least I'm going to comment on the article, and say this :

Liberals don't have a tradition of fighting for anything in this country. Liberals tend to loathe the military, so serving this country has generally fallen to Conservatives. Try picketing or "expressing yourself" in the military, and you end up in the brig. You're there to learn how to fight and kill.............two things abhorrent to Liberals. So they stay home and fight the war of Sacramento, or some little dust-speck Kansas town in the middle of nowhere.

Bret - - - you are wrong about liberals. When have you ever really had a conversation with a liberal. You would find out that your assumptions are way off base. Tonights win for Obama is victory for the center. The center is speaking out this election cycle and those who can't appeal to the center will be the losers. Mark my words.

Joe,
It was a mandate for change, not centrist aims. Even the candidates involved noted that.

Well, it would seem Conservatives, if you are an example, are completely full of prune soup. Nothing you said is true, or vaguely resembles truth. This country was founded by fighting liberals, and if you think only conservatives serve their country, you need to talk to more than the little coffee clatch you have over the internet with your fellow idiots. I suppose only conservatives fought in WWII, Vietnam, Korea. What a putz. Conservatives do seem to want to start war more, of course, one of the reasons they need to be controlled by less dangerous others, that know the meaning of the word diplomacy, something not in the neocon dictionary. As for name calling, Thanks for comparing me to Kucinich, a man with more integrity in his little finger, than in your whole body.

Well, Ron - you heard it here first. The winners will be those who will work for centrist goals, such as health care, the war, and middle class tax cuts.

Bret - - - Ron is correct about our history. The founders and the warriors in the revolution were liberals through and through.

Joe, those are not centrist causes, unless you centrists all caught up with the progressives among us. They are ours, and if you like them too, that's great, but they were not, a few short months back, centrist, in the least. If they are now, it's because we progressives have fought to make it so.

Liberals believe in a strong defense and punishment for crime. But not preemption and pointless jail sentences. We believe no American should be turned away from a hospital because they are too poor or lack a proper legal defense. We believe that people should make enough from one job to live on, to spend time on raising their family. We believe that individuals and not the state should dictate who gets married and why.

I'm not sure I see how these descriptions add up to cowardly pacifist... the label some here are trying to pin on "Liberals".
I seem to remember in my history texts how those same 'Liberals' were the ones who joined the British or Canadian forces who were fighting Nazis during the first 2-3 years of WWII before the Japanese kicked us where it hurts and bombed Pearl Harbor. After that there was no way the Conservatives in the U.S. government could justify not going to war! All be it three years late!

As an example of 'Conservative Justice' Texas style you should take a look at
this article It's taken 27 years to finally fix that major miscarriage of justice!

A truly sad case, Kathleen. It also speaks to my assumptions about the prevalence of rascism in our country, that would likely make Obama's path a rugged one. I have to say, I do not believe he can win in the general election.

Ron,

If those are progressive causes that you are correct. The country is on the same page.