An Open Letter To The Grammatically Challenged

laziness and not giving a darn about it. many, many times when i correct people (especially for spelling) the response i get is "oh, i don't care". this is baffleing to me . . . how could you be wrong and not care to fix it. . . ? but that's me. =)

I too am utterly astonished at the quality of writing found on the 'net. Especially in a forum created specifically for writing, you would hope standard language usage would be a given.

I'm not perfect either, by any means. (I'd LOVE to see a spell check HERE for example!) But for heaven's sake, there's quite a difference between the common typo and consistently incorrect usage and/or spelling.

If you're trying to communicate your thoughts and ideas, why distract from your theme?

Why would I want to read your thoughts and ideas and consider them on their merits if I can't get passed your grammar and spelling?

If you're too lazy to proofread it, I'm too lazy to read it!

I agree and then find that someone else besides the writer - another commenter criticizes me for noting the error and giving the writer the correct spelling of the word.

Especially if people are talking about writing a letter, they need to have it look polished and professional, because it is a reflection of them.

My difficulties are with worse or worst and never quite know when to use which.

Webwriter - I think you meant can't get past grammar and spelling in your second to last sentence. Unless you meant they have not passed a class on spelling and grammar.

You'll have to what which one, Debra?

This isn't me claiming perfection. This is me codemning laziness.

Leave a message for me with me, if you have one.

Bonnie, how dare you correct someone else on MY article? *laughing*

I agree but then again I'm an English/Communications/TAG teacher and I expect my students to have a good grasp on the English language so why should I expect less here. A mistake here or there, a typo or a common mistake is understandable, but too much of that and I tend to pull out my "teacher hat" and plop it on!

Senobia, one of the reasons I was attracted to this site was to learn from other writers. I appreciate it when people like Nancy Spivey, Sandy Knauer or Kevin go lightly correct my spelling, grammar or punctuation.

I use spell check (which is useful but far from comprehensive) and I admit I am the world's worse self- editor. I am open to corrections and suggestions of all kinds and frankly I don't understand people who are offended when others try to help.

I know "worse" should have been "worst"--TYPO!

Debra, if you'd get your nose out of his ass for a minute, you'd realize he's not that great to have warranted an article spawned from anything he ever copied or pasted.

He's old news. Move on. I have.

I have graduated from college, so I know a thing or two about writing articles, but the graduation date has been awhile ago, so I am a little out of practice with proofreading to catch spelling and grammatical errors.

I have to disagree though to a point on using the internet as a tool for correcting articles, many things I have found on the internet are wrong, either spelling or gramatical wise. So using the internet, unless it a reputable site, may not be the answer, but may only be breeding more problems and errors.

Just my humble opinion, going back into my corner now,
stephanie

I don't mind if someone gives a little correcting if I have typed something wrong. I do however, have a problem with someone pointing out every little typo in my post. I do agree that some articles are hard to read due to no punctuation, no capitalization, and no space between things. I will admit that I do tend to be a little on the lazy side at times with my typing.
I tried to read an article earlier entitled "hate" unfortunately, as Webwriter posted something to the effect of it being "the longest run on sentence in history". Webwriter, sorry if I didn't get the quote verbatim. Those of you who really enjoy correcting other people's typing should head on over there, but I would suggest taking dinner with you as you will be there for a while. I personally couldn't get through it because it made absolutely no sense.

Matthew, I'm assuming that your errors are, in fact, deliberate. At least I hope they are, because your thoughts are very difficult to follow, much less make a judgement regarding whether I agree or disagree with you. If the grammar and spelling errors eclipse what the writer is attempting to say, far better that someone should correct the errors than that they simply shake their heads and move on. Taking the time to correct implies that the person doing the correcting feels that what the person they are correcting is trying to say is worthy of being heard. It may well be a backhanded compliment, in fact.

No, I think grammar and spelling are huge issues - especially when you are communicating via the internet. Your grasp of the English language is your proverbial first impression. Same as if you were to show up in person to meet a whole new group of people in a stained shirt and torn pants. Not because you don't have clothes in your closet, but because you're too damned (pick whichever word applies) to care about how you look.

You people getting defensive about this article need to realize this is nothing personal. It applies across the board. You want to demand that people show a little (pick whichever word applies) and just overlook the errors. I don't think so. This is not about "perfection" or "better than you". It's about not putting it out there if you don't want it criticized.

Hurray!!!! I can't stand reading lazy writing, apostrophes tossed whevever anybody pleases, agreement problems, failure to correctly distinguish between duals and plurals (such as each other/one another) ...

When I joined Gather, i was told it is a place where real writers (please, not bloggers! I hate wasting time on mere blogging here!) can critique and help one another.

Somebody had specifically asked me to critique his writing. I did, starting with huge problems with commas. Another commenter actually went crazy at me for it! Accused me of being as petty and picky of one of her college profs. (Well, I have taught Freshman Comp!) If you don't want help with your writing, and especially if it drives you crazy to see somebody else getting help, get out of Gather.

Oh, yes, I appreciate help with my writing.

And oh, yes, taking time to corrrect is not a backhanded compliment, but a straightforward one. It means what you have to say is good enough to be worth caring about how you say it.

Senobia, and other correctors,

I do not disagree with your basic point, which is, I think, that folks should make a reasonable effort to use correct spelling and grammar when communicating in public.

I would ask (somewhat selfishly) however, that you bare in mind that some posts are made in the heat of ongoing discussion, and may contain errors that would otherwise be corrected, as time permitted.

And also ask that you realize we are not all endowed with the same editing equipment. I, for instance, have a very stubborn problem with homonyms, apparently due to a tendency to "hear" writing, more than "see" it. No alarms go off in my head when I inappropriately spell 'there' as 'their'. I try to scan for these errors before posting, but such scanning is sometimes itself ineffective, as there are simply no 'bells and whistles' sounding as I read.

1. They have an internet connection.
2. They have access to search engines.
3. They can navigate to places such as http://orangoo.com/spell/

Consider yourself endowed.

If the author doesn't care enough about his/her work to put time into writing, why should I care enough about it to spend my time reading it? Regarding John's 'hear of the moment' comment, I don't look for the same dedication to accuracy in comments as I do in articles, but do notice those whose comments are close to perfect.

Senobia,

You obviously failed to consider my post in an objective manner.

Consider yourself chastized.

I am fortunate to rarely see grammatical or spelling errors most of the time. I do not like seeing the grammar police or Spell Stars leaving posts that are negative to anyone's writing.

I have always always been a spelling dunce. The beauty of language is it flows best for me with all its regional quirks and spellings. I use both British and American English spellings .... I grew-up when both were acceptable.

I often unconsciously use grammatical patterns from my grandparents German-English rural Wisconsin accents. I can remember in college breaking myself of phrases like: "I'm going to mail my mother through the mail a letter."

I would much rather comment on the message rather than the presentation.

Getting in a lather over grammar or spelling seems to me like being invited to a tea party and being so worried over how to sit, balance a cup and plate etc. that you do not take part in the lovely repast and miss the conversations' great tidbits.

Yes ... I meant to use the plural conversations'.

I did not take this out of here to test my comment in Word for spelling or grammar ..... this is not an article by me, but rather an informal response to explain why I do not see these as being issues.

If all of you people truly see this as a "non-issue" then why are you taking so much time to voice your defense? If it doesn't pertain to you, great! The letter is addressed to the grammatically challenged. If the tee doesn't fit you, there's no need to cross it.

I took an online writer's class last winter, the Professor conducting the class has written and published 60+ books. One of my classmates asked about grammar punctuation etc, and she said..."that's what editors are for."

Dee, for the most part you're wrong. Most of any errors in the above comment I made, are real, and they are mine and I own them. This is one reason to keep writing, to perfect ones ability, I won't say craft because you'd laugh at me. Though, when I write poetry, I do craft.

I am a poor grammarian and yet I am here, trying my best to write on topics I care about. I do that despite knowing my weakness, despite knowing some may grown from my improper use of words, comma's, or semi colons. I am here writing because I feel, even though I am a poor writer, that what I have to say is valid, it is important, just as is what you have to say. I think you will agree with me, because being better at grammar or punctuation doesn't make you a more disserving person, and I hope you don't take that view. I don't believe in the greater writers being the greater people, sometimes the greatest is the child, untrained and incorrectly communicating.

I misspell, but I am of worth and what I have to say is worth reading, I pity the people who toss away the words of caring but ungrammatically correct... where would our ancestors be? For the most part we would toss them out, because many of them would not be able to write at all let alone be able to write a readable sentence. In fact if bad spelling ruins a written piece, and you would toss it out without pause, you would miss Jane Eyre, Wuthering Heights, and indeed most everything the Bronte sisters wrote because they were among the worst spellers of their day.

I do use a spell check and Word's grammar adviser but still some mistakes will sneak by. I stand here writing for those who write incorrectly because I am a good example of it, but I write to you now to say, help us if you will, politely, in a friendly way or ignore us altogether, because we are people with heart and worth and we don't need to be badgered impolitely about our error's. Also in comment box's many people write in the passion of the moment, and therefore they sometimes forget to test the text of their comments in word or something else. Trust me I am writing in Word at the moment before I post it…

Senobia, I think these others, who defend the poor spellers like me, are doing it with the idea of instilling the concept of helpful criticism, and agreeing that we can be helpful and yet, not so stuck on our own issues as to be rude when we correct others. That is the point I hope I am making, but they seem to be doing it better even as I sit here writing.

All, please forgive my long windedness and any repeating of myself I may have done, those are writing issues I am actively working on

As most of you who are connected to me probably know by now, I joined Gather to read the work of writers. In my reading ventures on Gather, I learn how to be better and more efficient in my use of English, my second language. It is always a disappointment and a chore to work my way through a piece that is not written well. I tend to read and comment on the work of people who take more pains with grammar and punctuation in their articles. Why bother reading something that will only cause me more trouble in my quest for better knowledge of the language?

I would like to recommend a small program I use. It's unobtrusive... by just pressing on the ALT button and clicking on any word whose spelling I am doubtful about, I get the right spelling, meaning, etc. It is a combination dictionary, encyclopedia, almanac, and spell checker. It's free, and you can download it here:

1-Click Answers

Oh, come off the woe-is-me-and-my-spelling-sucks-but-don't-hold-that-against-me crap. Put down your damned crutch, stop whining, and invest the time it takes to type your repetitive rebuttal into finding an online grammar aide.

If you are a poor speller, it's because you CHOOSE to be.

THE END.

Good God almighty, folks. I have never in my life seen a bunch of people saying so much without saying anything at all.

Senobia, I'm with you. Poor spelling and grammar are pet peeves of mine, although I make a few mistakes of my own now and then. One thing I see more and more often is people putting in apostrophes where they don't belong - such as "I have 359 CD's in my collection".

oh, and John Knight, that should be "bear" not "bare". I'm surprised no one caught that before now.

If you are making "error's" - be they inside or outside of "box's", I think it's time that you get a new adviser.

Damn homonyms

I think that many people are trying to express a view which is worthy of consideration, even if they are dismal failures as grammarians. The problem is that their grammar and spelling errors are so bad that the one trying to read what they've written is unable to do so because the sentence structure, and spelling are so incredibly bad that it's impossible to find their point. That is, truly, a shame.

Bad spelling is one thing, but disordered writing often shows a disordered mind.

Steph,

I think sometimes it's like airplanes; surely someone can build them well, and fly them. But building them is itself pointless, if they're not flow well.

Bonnie S.--"Webwriter - I think you meant can't get past grammar and spelling in your second to last sentence. Unless you meant they have not passed a class on spelling and grammar."

Are you sure? That doesn't sound right to me. I am not dealing with something in a historical past. I am trying to move passed it. (I passed on more cake, not past on it?!) Can you cite a resource for me? I'm confused. Thanx!

Julie l. "Webwriter, sorry if I didn't get the quote verbatim."

Close enough! :)

I never claimed to be perfect, ya'll. But I do try and I do learn. If you're going to write, not scribble, isn't that required?

Pearl2 U, I'd love to have your resource, but your link sent me to a "Page Not Found" error at Answers.com.

Yay. I can officially crown myself Queen of Farkin' Absolutlely Everything.

I've graduated from just having a garden variety troll hanging on my every word to driving someone to create an alter ego to make comments their normal persona wouldn't dream of.

I have arrived! (laughing)

And no, I am not identifying myself as grammatically challenged. I am indentifying you as being in dire need of a life.

But you can't have mine. I'm the Queen of FAE. I'd never, ever give up that title.

Yes, it is.

For purposes for which it was used in that context.

"Criticizing someone's intelligence or writing ability is too often a convenient scapegoat for those who don't wish to confront a topic with an open mind."

CC, you obviously haven't read the insane ramblings posted here by "A Certain Christian," who has since apparently deleted them.

That guy is just plain nuts. And you can tell by his writing. He can't even put together a coherent thought. Scary!

It appears his articles and comments have been deleted...alas, I don't know his username to find his home page. But his writings were long ramblings going on about jezebel and WHORE and sATAN (spelled like that)...they were pretty freakin' nuts.

When online grammar and spell checkers are available, though not so thorough, it is a courtesy to the reader to proofread the writing. Sometimes, in a rapidly progressing commentary, the thoughts and words just flow without waiting for proofreading.

Sometimes typos or mistakes occur due to oversight; some other times the language is tweaked just for effect. The purpose of language is effective communication; and if that purpose is accomplished the writing is good enough or, even, superb for me.

BTW, I always welcome corrections because English is not my native tongue.

acronyms: In general, avoid periods when creating acronyms (ROI, PDA, FAQs, etc.). Spell out the full name on first use, followed by the acronym in parentheses — return on investment (ROI). If the name is not referred to more than once in your document, skip the abbreviation.

Pluralize acronyms without adding an apostrophe — FAQs, not FAQ's.

Some acronyms are so common — such as IT for information technology — that they may not require spelling out. Consider your audience's knowledge base and use your judgment in such cases.

"You are on the internet. That tells me you're somewhat computer savvy." You're making a large assumption, Senobia. I work with people that have to use computers daily and barely can send an email.

Sumtimez speiling isnt soo imporntent. if u gett ur massage axoss. :)

Senobia.. I am 100% on your side. I am admitted snob when it comes to spelling, grammar and punctuation; so much so that I will not buy a product if there's a misspelled or incorrectly used word in their ad copy (if they can't spell it right, how credible can their claims be?). Nor will I read an article past (not ''passed") its first error. Your analogy of the sloppy dresser is absolutely correct; as soon as I see a desecration of my language, my reaction is "this is an ignorant dolt" and will not waste another minute reading the rest of the piece. To me, the most ubiqitous of these irritants these days is the use of 'your' instead of 'you're', as in "if you think I dont spell good, your an idiot." {shudder} On behalf of all we purists, thank you for this article.

I wonder how all of the people who defend laziness would react if their bank decided accuracy wasn't important and turned their $1200 balances into $120, claiming details don't matter. Or if the newspaper accidentally used their names in place of the murderer's on the front page.

I tried to post this comment last nite but lost connection and the same thing this morning, so I saved it:

Webwriter - I use www.grammarnow.com and input the word passed and received a dozen examples of how to use it at this site:

http://public.onelook.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/bware/dofindp.cgi

Then I did a google search using this term:

she can't get past his mistakes and was brought to a few articles - here is one -

www.boston.com/news/globe/magazine/articles/2006/08/13/the_lessons_of_the_father/

the sentence goes like this -

Will he be able to get past that reputation for being so polished that he sometimes

Another site and example -

When the three children get past Fluffy because the harp is playing. I lost the site address.

But I believe a similar word to use would be "beyond" and that would eliminate the need to figure out passed or past, although I believe it is past.

======
I just noticed someone else used the example of beyond. Thanks for posting that.

Senobia, I am so with you on this one. Everyone makes mistakes, but the fact that anyone would post something without seeing the obvious mistakes (spelling or otherwise) indicates that they don't care about their article or who reads it. Why even bother posting if your lack of self-respect is such that your opinion on a subject is negated due to your apparent ignorance of the written word. A fictional story, personal antidote, and even a recipe are dismissed because the writer doesn't give enough of a damn for their potential readers to utilize a spell check

Giving enough of a damn.

That's it. Bingo.

Thanks for the article. This is one of my pet peeves. I find articles with grave grammatical errors to be difficult to read. Spelling doesn't bother me quite as much, though. I do hate the lazy way of typing -- such as "u r" for "you are", "c u l8r" for "see you later".

It's interesting to me how an argument on grammar and punctuation is laced with mistakes.

Personally, I don't have a problem with occasional lapses in grammar or punctuation - except for the use of "loose" instead of "lose" and "your" instead of "you're." However, when an article (not "artical" as I have seen written numerous times) is riddled with misspellings, it makes it very difficult, if not impossible, to understand the meaning of the message. In that case, a little bit of care goes a long way.

Another person too immature to state your own thoughts, ucaint? Do you really expect anyone to think you created your Gather account today and accidentally found this article?

You "sometimes" work as a freelancer with the attitude of - but, hey, that's why publications employ professional editors.......?

I think you need to edit that and put "less often than once in a blue moon".

No publication in their right mind - or worthy of being published in - is going to offer you anything, but laughing you to scorn if you truly submit pieces written with this attitude.

Everyone makes typos. However I am appalled at people who make no attempt to get it correct. When I go to a restaurant and the bathroom is dirty, so is the kitchen. I work with numbers, and when someone sends me something with all sorts of typos and grammar mistakes, it tells me they didn't check the numbers either.

It IS a big deal, and it DOES mean someone is lazy or in a hurry. Growing up saying warsh and terlet does not excuse someone from spelling wash and toilet correctly.

Yes, Ucp, that is what I meant thank you for the correction.

LMAO warsh and terlet

Cheri, you're attacking Senobia's viewpoint by referring exclusively to the commenting on this website. That's not the issue. All she's saying is that if people really care about getting their points across in articles, they ought to take the time to express them as clearly as they can--i.e., by adhering to accepted standards of spelling and grammar.

The idea of a "fast" world doesn't haven't to be equivocal to "careless and inefficient".

Oh, yes. Yes, I would and they're just as defensive in person. I'm not going to overlook annoyances for the sake of sparing the thin skinned.

Back to the "fast paced" BS. If you're making mistakes, you're going too fast. If you're not concerned about correcting the mistakes, don't bash people who are a little more detail oriented than you choose to be.

Don't crawfish on your original comment. You were talking publications hiring editors to take up your slack in your chosen profession.

"I majored in journalism and sometimes work as a freelance writer.....like many writers, sometimes my spelling is awful .......sometimes my grammar usage is incorrect....... but, hey, that's why publications employ professional editors......."

Johnny...^5 and right on.

Regarding this analogy: Getting in a lather over grammar or spelling seems to me like being invited to a tea party and being so worried over how to sit, balance a cup and plate etc. that you do not take part in the lovely repast and miss the conversations' great tidbits.

I see the point here, and agree to a certain extent. If I read an article that I know the author has put time and thought into, I probably will read over a typo without jumping out of my seat. The ones that bother me are the articles where someone obviously opened the publishing page, pecked out a half-baked thought, and then hit the button to publish without a second look. To put this in the tea party setting, it would be like finding jelly caked to side of my cup and a roach floating in my tea.

What's this? Getting your drawers in a knot over your self-damning comments? Erm - Ok.

There is a happy medium. This article does not specify where the errors occur, and that is critically (not a pun) important. Virtually all those who commented in this thread have committed "offenses" of grammar and spelling. It is normal to be imperfect. It is normal to accept the imperfection of others. It is neurotic to insist on perfection, in others, or oneself.

Be critical, but don't be neurotic.

P.S. John A; 2nd paragraph, rigth is wrong. (pun intended)

P.P.S. ucaint; got that one, hold the toxins for now.

Cheri, I sincerely doubt you've worked with a lot of *professional* editors if you hand in stuff that has not been proofread, especially in this day and age with spellcheck.

Any real freelance writer knows that to hand in articles that are filled with errors is a surefire way to get tossed into the trash. I worked at a weekly, and trust me, any articles that were submitted in that format were usually poorly written as well.

You sound like someone who has written for amateur publications, to be honest. No respectable publication with a serious editor will put up with bad grammar and excessive typos.

PS Minor spelling errors in Gather comments are NOT the same thing as publishing an article here riddled with errors. We all know how hard it is to deal with this tiny comment box, which has no option for editing once you hit "post."

Senobia, heads up that Debra decided to write an article based on her comment here and mentions you as a culprit, then proceeding to bash you in her comments.

And she is decrying rude "abusive" people in her article. Funny!

Senobia, thanks for the website for the spell checker. I have placed the shortcut on my desktop. All I have to do now is try to remember to use it. :-)

Unless you are invited to critique someones' article, what gives you the right?


If it's out there, I have the right. As you say, the internet is public domain. If you don't want it criticized, don't put it out there.

Now, just for that, I'm really going to have to follow you around and check all your entries for misspellings.

Steph -

It's a paltry attempt to earn points via a high controversy article - at my expense. But that's alright by me! I can only hope she uses her B&N gift card to purchase the lastest edition of "How To Put On Your Big Girl Panties And Deal With It".

I haven't read all of the comments before this one. I would just like to say that I whole-heartedly agree with you.

I am a representative for two direct sales companies. I belong to several internet and email groups associated with both of these companies. You would be astounded at the number of people that participate in these groups and cannot/will not spell things correctly in ads for their numerous companies!

It is one thing to be lazy and careless in a blog as you are trying to get feelings out and may be typing rather quickly with the mind moving faster than the hands. However, ads should be carefully written and spelling and grammar checked thoroughly! I cannot tell you how many times I have seen the word special spelled wrong (spezial, spicial, speceil, etc.). Why on earth would anyone do business with these people? I know I wouldn't! I have yet to address it in the group, but surely I cannot be the only one thinking that!

Grammar and punctuation are very important in any writing forum.

We are here to interact and we are doing so by our writings. That means we should give our best.

My heckles rise if I see SMS lingo in creative writing.

"Ninety five percent of the time that I see bad grammar, poor spelling, and sloppy typing on the internet, I will comment about it and correct the errors."

Is it really 95% of the time or did you just pull that figure from the air? Don't get lazy on us now!

I'm not sure, but isn't "chicken scratched thing" hyphenated? E.g., "chicken-scratched thing".

Maybe somebody should follow their own advise:
- extra space between many and things
- It's *Internet* -- mistake made many times throughout.
- It's *spell-checking*

I won't mention the fragments, because these can be used for effect.

Also, I find people who complain about not being able to hyperlink to be extremely lazy. There is probably a FAQ on Gather or other articles here where people give instructions. If not, this is the Internet. I assume you know how to use a search engine.

their own advise= her own advice
before you correct me.

I'm not perfect, and I admit that.

My father-in-law, who was a pretty darned good industrial designer, couldn't spell. I always thought he was a bit dyslexic. He said that when he hired drafters if he had two candidates with otherwise equal qualifications he'd pick the poorer speller. His rationale was that the poorer speller was likely to have superior visualization skills.

My parents were sticklers for Standard English. My mom clipped things from newspapers and magazines with ambiguous pronoun references, misplaced modifiers, and dangling participles. She tacked them up behind the washer with her favorite cartoons.

" Maybe somebody should follow their own advise:
- extra space between many and things
- It's *Internet* -- mistake made many times throughout.
- It's *spell-checking*"

These are minor style issues. Style changes from publication to publication. Choosing AP, Chicago, or an internal style will determine whether it's Internet or internet, website or Web site, or 100 or one-hundred.

(Also, Chicago style prefers the final comma in a series, if I am not mistaken, while AP style does not.)

Passive Voice

Sandy,

Wow, gratitude is called for but might easily be construed as itself "laziness". Interpretations of this kind are oft made but seldom truly understood. At least it could be argued.

Using an en dash on a website (where em dashes are special characters) is hardly on par with some of the awful writing on the net, such as this made up example:

hI! My nam is Jo and I rilly like 2 write.........what abuot u?

Word grammar checking is mainly good for laughs. One of the first times I tried it I discovered that Word couldn't tell the difference between a predicate adjective and the passive voice.

There are all sorts of situations where the passive voice is appropriate, e. g. "The house was built in 1922." That's a lot better than "Somebody built the house in 1922." The problem is that people can get carried away with it. When you have the choice between active and passive voice and the active voice provides a clear way to say what you want to say, my rule is go active.

It's a Latin thang. The passive voice is standard usage in Classical Latin. When Latin was the scholarly international language a lot of people who wrote in English wrote as though they were writing in Latin. It persisted as faux gentility for a long time after Latin passed out of general use.

Me? Feeling defensive? Of course not, "terry". See, I'm secure enough in my knowledge of the grammar law that says proper names (yours) and initials (yours) should be capitalized. You're the one that should be on the defense here.

Do you even know the definition of a preposition? One of two things is clear - either you don't know what a preposition is or you're not talking about this article.

prep·o·si·tion 1 (prp-zshn) KEY

NOUN:
Abbr. prep.
A word or phrase placed typically before a substantive and indicating the relation of that substantive to a verb, an adjective, or another substantive, as English at, by, with, from, and in regard to.

Oh jumping one-legged Jesus on a rubber crutch! Do you people eat semi-colons and crap commas? Let it go. For the love of cheese, think of the forth-remove pre-participles' second cousin in the past subjunctive mode and how much we lazy people really give a flying Fig Newton about en v. em dash in a court of common law.

Randy,

Your exclamation tickled my colon. Thanks.

Oh, I think you give more than a Fig Newton. You're still here commenting.

Just a question...
Wasn't Faulkner famous for his "creative" grammar? I know when I write I sometimes do the same thing for the sake of emphasis (and no, I am NOT comparing myself to Faulkner!!!).
I don't care if you critique my writing as long as you're nice about it.
I'll go away now.

Is anyone else out there asking the same thing... what the hell is an en dash versus an em dash?

tatsrus,

Not out-loud, one has one's reputation to think of.

The shorter dash is En Dash (–) and the longer one is Em Dash (—). If using MS Word, see Insert-Symbol-Special Characters. More reference here.

Hey, if you'd like to see just how grammatically challenged Senobia HERSELF is, check out her FIRST POST on this thread

http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474976793050

*ROFL* apparently her skills aren't all she claims them to be *ROFL*

The coward DELETED her grammatically challenged post, what a hypocrite.

only my opinions -I am very capable of correct spelling and grammer. I was taught proper English, and can both use and understand 'big words". I know how to use a dictionary. I am completely proficient in library reasearch procedures whenever I am in doubt. HOWEVER, to say that this is what I should be doing regularly, I question. While I may want to use proper 'procedure' at times, there are just as many times when I 'jess' 'wanna' say what I'm 'try'n' to say. When my statements encompass my personal feelings about an issue, I tend to type like I talk. That 'prolly' pisses people off. If I wanted to impress people, I wouldn't do it in the first place. It's 'jess' that I 'dint' care at the time. There are times that I care, there are times that I don't. I still think that's my choice. Now if I got to 'sumthen' that made logical sense, but wasn't gramatically correct, I think to myself...is it worth it? ..the deciphering? I guess that 'jess' depends on the topic...

Thanks, Dolphi. I always figured one as the short dash and the other as the fancy dash. I didn't know they had different uses, but then again, it wasn't part of my math/engineering/comp sci/business core curriculum. If I were an English major, it probably would have been drilled in me, but alas, my last English class was in high school...

Well, good to learn something every day.

Stephanie: My point here was that it doesn't seem that Senobia used a spell checker on her article that tells other people that they are lazy if they don't. I find that hypocritical. While I agree that people should try to make their writing as error free as possible, I think there are better ways to communicate that besides an angry rant.

Most word processing programs recommend capitalizing Internet, including the commonly-found-on-most-computers Microsoft Word.

I go by AP style. I have never met anybody who used Chicago style. I think the Wired Stylebook would be a more convincing reason to use internet.

Wendy-- pure genius.

Kelly-- I always use i and not I for internet *G*

Senobia: I couldn't agree with you more.