by John Philipp
Member since:
August 10, 2006

Thought~Byte No.165

September 15, 2009 11:52 PM EDT (Updated: September 15, 2009 11:54 PM EDT)
views: 109 | comments: 62

Thought~Byte No.165

 

 

 

Concept and words by John Philipp. Drawings by Phil Frank.

(The comments below are where the wisdom is found.)

 
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Comments: 62

John Philipp Sep 15, 2009, 11:53pm EDT
Mini Thought~Bytes (words without drawings) appear every day on my Twitter page.
John Philipp Sep 15, 2009, 11:53pm EDT
Thought~Bytes are posted every Wednesday. To see all Thought~Bytes and get an email when new ones are posted, please join Thought~Bytes
K D. Sep 15, 2009, 11:56pm EDT
I'm first!
John Philipp Sep 16, 2009, 12:15am EDT
Quadruple congratulations, Karen!
K D. Sep 15, 2009, 11:58pm EDT
Now that the excitement is over I'll comment on the post!

So true, John, so true. Value judgments get in the way of a lot of intelligent thought.
John Philipp Sep 16, 2009, 12:16am EDT
And actually often don't allow us to see the data in front of us.
Visionaerie B. Sep 16, 2009, 12:03am EDT
I couldn't disagree more! We make value judgments every day simply as a part of being a rational human being. Did you make a value judgment when you chose your wife, or your car? If we didn't have discernment, we'd just be rudderless sheep, which seems to be where a lot of Americans are these days -- led to the flu shot slaughter (it even contains spermicide now)! Thanks for posting this and I hope you find your way out of the fog!!
John Philipp Sep 16, 2009, 12:19am EDT
Visionaerie, surely you can disagree more than that :)

There are a lot of levels to values — strong pluses — some of which you cite — and some serious downsides. So, this isn't a black o white topic.

My intent here was to focus on dynamic situations where the flow is important to the understanding and there, often "judging as we watch" interfers with our absorbing the true experience.
Linda T. Sep 16, 2009, 12:22am EDT
Value judgments are reflections of our own beliefs making them personal. When something is personal it is difficult if not impossible to see the situation in a non-biased manner. We have to take ourselves out of the equation to better understand the reality of a situation.
John Philipp Sep 16, 2009, 5:45am EDT
"We have to take ourselves out of the equation to better understand the reality of a situation."

Definitely an important facet of this Byte, Linda. Thanks.
JOHN BECK Sep 16, 2009, 12:28am EDT
Dynamics? Dynamics of what. I'm not sure I know where you're going with this, John.
John Philipp Sep 16, 2009, 5:50am EDT
I think of a dynamic situation as one that has movement and doesn't all happen at one moment.

For example, a written statement is static.

A conversation (involving the same words) is dynamic. The words are delivered over a period of time and also have tonals and non-verbals.

Or, whatever you'd like dynamic to mean in this context. :)
Vivian A. Sep 16, 2009, 12:45am EDT
Hmmm...still chewing.
John Philipp Sep 16, 2009, 5:51am EDT
Gotta love those Bytes that require chewing ...
~Sia McKye~ Sep 16, 2009, 12:56am EDT
I guess this where the term seeing and hearing things with an open mind comes into play. If we're too quick prejudge what we think we're seeing or hearing, how can we see what's really happening in front of us?

Value judgments are based on our personal beliefs (our values), as Linda mentions and they do cloud our perception of what we think we see of the situation before us.

"A great many people think they are thinking when they are
merely rearranging their prejudices." -William James

He puts it much more succinctly than I do, lol!
John Philipp Sep 16, 2009, 5:52am EDT
It is a very clever quote, Sia. Thanks.
Dennis Gilman Sep 16, 2009, 10:59am EDT
Got scooped by Sia this time. What time do you guys go to bed?
~Sia McKye~ Sep 16, 2009, 12:27pm EDT
Dennis, I just happened to still be up publishing my blog when John's thought bytes went up. I rarely miss them so I popped over before I went to bed, lolol!
Jan S. Sep 16, 2009, 1:02am EDT
Linda and Visionaerie make excellent points. I going to chew on this one a while, too.
John Philipp Sep 16, 2009, 5:53am EDT
Chewing is good.
Susan Budig Sep 16, 2009, 1:15am EDT
This might make a good tattoo.
John Philipp Sep 16, 2009, 5:53am EDT
:)
penni d. Sep 16, 2009, 7:50am EDT
I came seeking wisdom.....:)
John Philipp Sep 16, 2009, 7:58am EDT
It's always with you, Penni.
Judi F. Sep 16, 2009, 8:47am EDT
yep. that's a keeper.
John Philipp Sep 16, 2009, 11:58am EDT
Thanks, Judi.
Dennis Gilman Sep 16, 2009, 10:56am EDT
As Linda says, when I make a "value judgement", I'm using my values. Who's to say mine are correct? I'm just as human as the person I'm judging. My values just might be as "cockeyed".

Humans are way too complicated for me to make an accurate value judgement of anyone. That is where the dynamics come in.

Here's a for instance: I hate homosexuality, but all the homosexuals that I have come to know are very nice persons, so I am forced to ignore the hated sexual choice. So I end up still hating homosexuality, but end up having homosexuals as friends.
John Philipp Sep 16, 2009, 12:00pm EDT
"Humans are way too complicated for me to make an accurate value judgement of anyone." Or why they did or said something.

I wish more people understood that, Dennis. And a good example of not letting labels get you in trouble.
Sandre M. Sep 16, 2009, 11:08am EDT
Good one, John. As I've learned over the years, the art of listening and observing is just that, an art, a skill. So many people jump into a situation or a conversation preparing what they will say or do in their heads, instead of just listening to the other party, then making a response or judging the situation.
John Philipp Sep 16, 2009, 12:02pm EDT
It is a skill, Sandre. When someone starts talking, what they say triggers a thought in your mind within 7-10 seconds. Now you are listening to two people: the person speaking and yourself.
Sandi S. Sep 16, 2009, 11:20am EDT
hmm...deep thoughts, but for some reason this morning my brain is not thinking them! ;-)
John Philipp Sep 16, 2009, 12:03pm EDT
Let the Byte simmer, Sandi. A lot of people prefer them that way.
Vivian A. Sep 16, 2009, 11:20am EDT
I agree with the statement, but...when a decision is required one must evaluate the perceived costs/ benefits of an action or inaction. To make a decision is to make a judgment. All judgments are influenced by one's values. One must accept that their biases affect their decisions and to a lesser degree, their perceptions.
John Philipp Sep 16, 2009, 12:07pm EDT
"One must accept ..." those are fighting words, Vivian. I sense a value system earning its keep.

A build: in some cases perceptions are strongly influenced by biases (we don't see what we don't believe) and therefore contribute to sending faulty information to our decision-maker.
Vivian A. Sep 16, 2009, 12:15pm EDT
No one is 100% impartial. It is impossible. Realizing that one has biases is key to making clearer judgments. Recognizing biases is critical to accepting oneself and making better decisions.
John Philipp Sep 16, 2009, 12:21pm EDT
I understand your point re: decisions and judgment and not sure I do regarding accepting myself.

(Nothing is 100%, including impossibilities :)
Vivian A. Sep 16, 2009, 12:42pm EDT
You really believe complete, utter impartiality is possible? I believe that with caution and realizing one's biases, one can approximate near impartiality, but 100%, no. Perhaps following a strict deductive argument one can decide on the valid or invalid, but life is rarely a simple deductive argument.
John Philipp Sep 16, 2009, 12:49pm EDT
"Life" is never " a simple deductive argument." Oh, there I go, falling into the 100% trap again.

So here's a ponder as I go off line to get some writing done:
What's the difference between believing 100% impartiality is possible and believing it is impossible? I believe nothing is 100%, including this statement.

*taking off that hat and putting on humor hat*
Vivian A. Sep 16, 2009, 12:52pm EDT
Snork! But please let the record show that I said,
"but life is rarely a simple deductive argument."
John Philipp Sep 16, 2009, 3:17pm EDT
The record has been adjusted accordingly.
Ruth J. Sep 16, 2009, 11:26am EDT
Absorb the dynamics around you first. Experience without judgement according to your own values. That's a tall order but makes us all better listeners and learners and it's worth the effort.
I comment here but if I am listening or observing I try to keep my hand over my mouth.
John Philipp Sep 16, 2009, 12:09pm EDT
It is a tall order and it is worth the effort, Ruth.
Beaker (just Beaker) Sep 16, 2009, 12:48pm EDT
Yay for deep thoughts!

I'll go with what I learned in kindergarten: stop, look, and listen, before you cross the street.
John Philipp Sep 16, 2009, 3:18pm EDT
That's pretty much all you need, Beaker.
Bill W. Sep 16, 2009, 4:25pm EDT
This is way too serious. To the extent that our financial well being (good or not so) is the sum of choices that we have made based on our own value system then it simply "is" and has no dynamic component. You can change your system as you mature but you are stuck with the results. Judging people based on our value systems needs to have a dynamic component because (duh) people change. I would argue that it is wise to give credence to mass value judgements based on statistical probability but be prepared to change your position in real time. I believe that the militant Muslims are, in fact, a real physical threat based on a static probability. There may be one or two out there that I would invite to dinner but I don't think so.

Does that make any sense?

Rest easy
John Philipp Sep 16, 2009, 5:55pm EDT
And you're telling me to lighten up? :)

("our value systems needs to have a dynamic component because (duh) people change" This is also another way to look at dynamics for Byte purposes. Thanks,)
Sheila Deeth Sep 16, 2009, 5:36pm EDT
Static judgment of dynamic situation switches off brain from seeing what comes next.
John Philipp Sep 16, 2009, 5:55pm EDT
Also a facet of this Byte, Sheila. Well stated.

Thanks.
Angela A. Sep 16, 2009, 5:55pm EDT
Well, making any judgment without facts, is never a good judgment to make.
John Philipp Sep 16, 2009, 5:57pm EDT
That's what we were taught, Angela.

Maybe I should say over-taught.
Madame Butterfly ~~ mary ann d ~~ Sep 16, 2009, 6:51pm EDT
I admit to that when I was younger, but hope I know better now.
John Philipp Sep 16, 2009, 7:24pm EDT
I'm sure you do, Mary Ann, though we aren't always aware that we are making a value judgment at the time.
Jeff K. Sep 16, 2009, 7:11pm EDT
I prefer to think of this byte as a factor in business decisions.

Snap decisions are made financially, regardless of whether or not similar decisions were made in the past only to fail, miserably, again.

History is NOT completely irrelevant - provided you still have personnel who remember the disasterous outcome from the last time this financial value judgement was implemented.

Am I bitter? Sarcastic? Disturbed by decisions made without considering history? Naaah. What ever gave you that idea?
John Philipp Sep 16, 2009, 7:25pm EDT
This is definitely an aspect of this Byte, Jeff. Though we need to remember that no situation/decision is every exactly the same.
blaine d. Sep 17, 2009, 3:23pm EDT
so true!
John Philipp Sep 17, 2009, 6:12pm EDT
Thanks, Blaine.
Georgiana S. Sep 17, 2009, 10:42pm EDT
any structured thinking seems to take the essence out of it!
John Philipp Sep 18, 2009, 12:02am EDT
A key point, Georgiana.

Thanks.
Beth G. Sep 18, 2009, 6:24pm EDT
This is very true!
John Philipp Sep 18, 2009, 6:33pm EDT
Thanks, Beth.
Chas Andrews Oct 10, 2009, 4:59pm EDT
they can, but not always...
John Philipp Oct 10, 2009, 8:13pm EDT
True, Chas, but are you aware of when is which?

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