I Weep For The Loss of The Republican Party That My Grandfather Believed In

Agreed. RIP to the true Conservatives and the GOP.

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~

Doyle C. - I do not celebrate this; not in the least. The vision I was given was of a noble, honest and philanthropic ideology. They were tenders of the entire crop, not just selections from the fields.

Lee L. - We have similar thoughts and similar practices. Some would argue, though, that the middle of the road can be the most likely place to get hit by something. Sure can keep one on their toes.

David K. - Good luck with that. I think I will continue to remain an independent voter. Party's always, eventually require some compromise to an individual's value system.

"Doyle C. - I do not celebrate this; not in the least."
Did you get the impression I did?

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~

Join the libertarians. You'll be happier there. It's where the disenchanged democrats and republicans end up.

Doyle C. - Yup, I did. Sorry if I read that wrong.

Shelley - The Libertarians I've met seem to have a real snob or elitist thing going on within them. One of the worst aspects of joining any party seems to be that you are expected to strut around saying you and yours are better than anyone else's. It's anti unity and such a waste of energy.

Bill . . . my wife and father are still old school Republicans . . . though less than proud today as you might imagine.

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~

Sad state of affairs that is for sure. Anybody with a plan that isn't "over the edge'? Ellen B

Doyle C. - I can imagine. I've heard the same tune from many similar folks.

Ellen B. - You bring it right to the point. I heard Hillary Clinton urge on camera for people to stop all the divisive name calling and just argue issues. Of course we've all seen that she's lost her tongue on several occasions, but at least it's a move in the right direction.

I can't name anyone else in the current front runners of the political spectrum that have yet portrayed what I'd call a strong unifying platform or stance. Every one calls for it, but none of them seem to embody it.

I know, my grandfather was even a Republican senator.

What we have in office right now are NOT statesmen. They couldn't care less about this nation. They are a cabal of thieves backed by bankers around the world like Rockefeller and Rothchild and their goal is world domination and enslavement of the people. Please watch the trailor for ENDGAME and you will see what I mean.

Olga M. - I hear ya. I don't know that I can agree with you about Rockefeller. The purported ideology of the "Rockefeller Republicans" is something I support.

Hopefully I won't get in trouble for borrowing words from Wikipedia but their definition hits me right on target.

"Historically Rockefeller Republicans were moderate or liberal on domestic and social policies. They typically favored New Deal programs, welfare, and civil rights—usually promising to run them more efficiently than the Democrats. They were strong supporters of big business. In fiscal policy they favored balanced budgets and relatively high tax levels to keep the budget balanced. They sought long-term economic growth through entrepreneurship, not tax cuts. In state politics, they were strong supporters of state colleges and universities, low tuition, and large research budgets. They favored infrastructure improvements, such as highway projects."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockefeller_Republicans

These words come pretty close to summing up what I think a government is for; or what I think a good government does. All these things provide stirring and uplifting environments for the general citizenry; and that's good for the country.

Unfortunately, since the Federal Reserve was established many years ago, actual control of our government is in the hands of the ultrawealthy, and partisanship has had little to do with actual governing of our country. Both parties now pander to the ultrawealthy, and big corporations and banks, and have very little concern about the little people in our country. They have become massive stealers of Federal monies dumped into massive Federal Defense spending. The corruption has become so massive that they are bleeding our country to death.

Bill,

As a former Republican who feels her party left her, I understand your pain. Hillary probably felt much the same, and if the GOP had remained the GOP we joined, Bill might have become a Republican and Hillary might be the Republican Party's candidate for President next year. If I recall correctly on of Bill's predecessors as Governor of Arkansas was a Republican named Winthrop Rockefeller.

As for me, since I do not live in a state with open primaries, I am now a registered Democrat.

Dave H. - I have heard what you are saying before and do not doubt that there is much truth in it. I would expect and hope that there are still some people among those controlling ultra-wealthy who value humanity overall and seek to build society up and not tear it apart or let it degrade for short term selfish gains.

In both long and short runs, the most of the wealthy and ultra-wealthy came to their wealth via the labors and contributions of others. As societies struggle or slip, their own lives and livelihoods are negatively impacted. The overall masses being the base, the foundation, of all economic structures; pyramid or otherwise.

Carol LeHane - You do indeed seem to understand what I am saying. I agree with you, that things, and affiliations, would be very different today if the GOP had embraced and maintained the Rockefeller Republican ideology. It is an ideology that many Americans would whole-heartedly dedicate themselves to; if only for the fact that it benefits all Americans.

I also live in a state that does not have open primaries. Because I do not register an affiliation with one party or another I only vote on issues in the primaries. I have to wait for the declared party members to decide which one of their candidates will be their front-runner, and then I get to choose my favorite from their nominees in the national election.

It is the lot of the independent voter; and I don't complain about it.

Yes today's Republican party is a far cry from the party of Ronald Regan. The greatest president this nation has even known. The only man who has ever carried 49 states in a general election. I am sure the gipper is shaking his head in heaven as he looks down upon W and what he has done to the party.

However we Reagan Reupulicans can realize the damage that W has done to our party and through our own effort seek to restore it to it's former greatness. And while we can see W for the incompetent moron he is, we will never embrace the anti-American, perverse, degenerate, warped, left wing moonbat agenda being espoused byt he more radical elements of today's American left.

Dana B. - Thanks for the note towards hope, but you ruined it by launching into a rant against "left" ideologies.

No comment on, or in, this article promotes anything perverse or degenerate, yet you HAD to layout slandering declarations for all to see. The impression you leave behind is that of a stone wall; not a pragmatic communicator.

I wasn't referring to you or anything you said Bill.

While I believed that Ronald Reagan was the greatest because he made us all proud to be Americans, believed we could all do better through our own effort, and actually cared about each and every American, I also realize that it's 2008 and not 1984.

There exists in this nation today an extremely virulent strain of anti_americanism among the far left that seeks to destroy everything that is traditional and unique about this once great nation. I will not stick my head in the sand and pretend this doesn't exist Bill. Nor will I pretend that these people are in any way reasonable, valuable to our society or in any way representative of mainstream America. Not for you, not for the memory of Ronald Reagan. It's here and now and must be dealt with.

I'm not talking about about all Democrats and liberals. i'm talking about the uber left. People like Clark Kent who routinely posts on this site and slanders anyone in uniform that doesn't agree with his far far far left ideology. I'm talking about the group of people who recently protested at San Fransisco State University on 9/11 when most normal Americans were trying to pay respect to those who died on that day. They were so far to the left that the president of the College Democrats at that university went on tv bashing them. I'm talking about the people who attend the antiwar rallies in their Che t-shirts handing out communist literature, burning and otherwise desecrating the American flag, and ranting and raving about the evils of America, the greatest terrorist in the world. Are you going to tell me that you have any love or even respect for these people Bill? I sure as hell don't and never will. It used to be that these people had no influence on our culture and political system but times have changed. Now they comprise the ranks of Moveon.org and other such organizations. The Democratic party has become holden to them as evidenced by not one single major Dem candidate condemning moveon.org for the "betray us" ad.

Then we have people like Carol espousing how bad the GOP had become before the Clintons and discussing how they might have been Republicans if the party hadn't become so rotten. The Clintons are two of the most self serving, vile, corrupt human beings on the planet and that suggestion makes me sick to my stomache. Everything that either of them has ever done is done out of consideration for othing other than how it will advance their own political ambitions. They're absolute scum through and through. Ronald Reagan had more honor and integrity in his left pinky than the entire corrupt Clinton clan.

I'm too young to rememebr when the roles were reversed. jfk.....lbj.... goldwater......vietnam.....nixon.....that was all way before my time. I was born when Carter was president and as far as I'm concerned the only president that was worth a damn during my entire lifetime was Reagan. Despite what many ignorant people may say, he was very compassionate but he was more interested in a society in which people were able to help themselves rather than rely on the government to solve all of their problems.

I think Dana B. is making the point far better than I could, but Ronald Reagan and Rockefeller Republicans are polar opposites.

In the early 70's, one quarter of Congress were centrists, over the years centrists were kicked out, as this article suggests. Today, only the Democratic party is actively finding and running centrists in States close to parity (50-50).

Maybe Republicans need to hit rock bottom before they get their act together again.

Dana B. - There are a few things in your responding comment that I can agree with, but the bulk of it I cannot.

The Clintons are far from being as vile and self-centered as you claim. Our country moved forward in many beneficial ways under Bill's presidency.

In truth, there are extremely virulent strains of anti-Americanism among the far RIGHT (as well as the far Left) that seek to destroy everything that is traditional and unique about our still great nation.

Where absolute anarchism is what exists at the extreme left pole, absolute fascism is the attitude at the extreme right pole. Neither one is democratic or republican; and both are rearing their ugly heads among our two major parties.

Our nation is most injured by the divisive name calling and anti-cooperation attitudes which too many people, regardless of stripe or political affiliation, seem so eager to engage in. The MoveOn Petraus ad was offensive, but is no worse than some of the things that the Righties have said, published or insinuated.

We are All Americans and should be working together to better the lives of each and every one of us. We waste time, energy and resources getting caught up in slandering each other.

On another note; if you think Clark Kent is representative of "the Far Left" you should get out and look around the political spectrum some more. Clark, at best (or worst), is but a few brain cells left of Center. The True Far Left have much more caustic and moon-batty attitudes then anything he has ever said or promoted.

Tim Nelson - Yup, Rockefeller Republicans and Reagan Republicans are at opposites. The Rockefellers are constructionists whereas the Reagans are deconstructionists.

I'll take construction over deconstruction pretty much every time. We do not better the nation by dismantling established infrastructures unless they are proven to be completely unnecessary and valueless.

Consider how much better we might be able to handle this Iraq War and the War on Terrorism if the military had not been slashed so heavily during the Reagan and Bush Sr. years. Not to mention the fact that the American taxpayers saw no reductions in their tax burdens thanks to all that dismantling. The Republican controlled congress continued to raise taxes despite the statements that reducing our colossal military would result in savings for the American people. They purported the notion that they had to increase taxes now (to pay for the reduction process) in order to have tax reductions later (something we never received).

"The Clintons are far from being as vile and self-centered as you claim. Our country moved forward in many beneficial ways under Bill's presidency."

Let me address that. During Clinton's presidency we saw the explosion of the internet which led to the .com in the PRIVATE sector which drove the economy we had in the mid - late 1990's. It had nothing to do with Clinton being some kind of an economic genius. To his credit Clinton had the good sense to listen to his political handlers and stand back and let the .com boom do it's thing. But to give him the bulk of the credit for it is absolutely absurd. Also let's not forget that slick willie had a republican congress for most of his presidency. They were the ones that forced his hand politically to sign off on welfare reform. Also...when the .com bubble burst late in Clinton's second term the economy did turn south while he was still in office. It just really didn't hit the fan until he was gone so every leftists and his mother paints him as some kind of economic genius and Bush as the ruiner of the great "Clinton economy." It's horseshit. Anyone with half a brain knows that regardless of who's in office, rep or dem, economies are always going to be affected by a plethora of factors beyond the president's control. Economies will cycle. That's econ 101.

As for them not being vile......Take the Bill Clinton as a sexual deviant issue alone. There are countless women that came forth to tell their story of how Bill Clinton had sexually harassed them and then Clinton's ruined everyone of their lives by all means possible. Then we have lefties trying to paint Hillary as some kind of role model for women. yeah that's who I want my daughters to emulate Bill......a woman who stayed with a serial cheating husband who sexually harassed everything in a skirt that he came across just so she could ride his professional coattails......and in the process helped him destroy the lives of many women through public character assasination......


I agree with you Bill...there are far right groups in this nation that do not represent mainstream traditional America. The difference, in my opinion at least, is that they possess nowhere near as much influence on our culture and political process as the far left groups do. Where is the far right's version of moveon.org?


It's true that there are those out there much further to the left than Clark. I think Devin Barber posted on this site that he believes the government should cap the salaries of private citizens at 200,000. But I also think you need to read more of Clarks posts Bill. Did you read the one where he claims 911 was an inside job? He's as far left as it gets on gather. He's a joke basically.

How can one American cooperate with another American who views and values are so diametrically opposed to one's own without compromising one's beliefs and values Bill? How can I as a conservative cooperate with lefties who believe in wealth redistribution, socialism, and legalized infanticide Bill? I can't. So I won't even try.

A point a agreement. There is a move afoot to form a national Independence party from out of a group in New York. The current Independence party in Minnesota split from the Reform party when that party put up a national ticket. Minnesota has a current Independence party that is centrist, with elements of libertarian hangers-on, which is a problem for all of the parties.

So, the question is what will the Independence party of Minnesota have to rename ourselves if this group calls themselves the Independence party ?

Dana B. - Well, you've said a lot. I can argue a lot of your points, but why should I?

It is obvious that we do not have the exact same beliefs, morals, values, judgements, ideologies, lifestyles, perspectives or views.

"So I won't even try."

Thanks for giving me an easy way out of talking with you further. We sure accomplished a lot, didn't we.

Good Luck to you in all you do.

Tim Nelson - I don't have a clue as to what to tell you about the Minnesota Independence party.

Uhmmm; Good Luck?

Good luck to all of us.

They say change is good.

I'll leave you with one of my favorite quotes Bill.....

"Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions."

Tim Nelson - Amen to that.

Dana B. - What a wonderful quote. I'm sure it brings The Devil to a mighty smile.

While I was raised by staunch Democrats, I vote my heart and my conscience. For the record, while Reagan was a good president, I take issue at "the best".. It is common knowledge that he was elected because he was a household name, not because of any great deeds he did prior to election. "Tear down this Wall"....that was his finest hour..luckily he didn't nap through it.

Dana,
Man, I have seen venom spewed on this site, but you are one of the most closed minded people I have seen here. Clinton is not a deviant. Sexually active, perhaps. a cheater, probably( we don't know Bill & Hill's personal arrangements, now, do we?)
Just because someone has a healthy libido does not make them perverse.

As for all that harassment, hasn't a coworker ever came on to you? Did you take them to court? or were you flattered by the attention? My personal view is that none of them would have complained if the Lewinsky thing hadn't come to light...oh yeah, by Linda Tripp..a Republican wanting to get her name in the history books.

I am listed as an independent, but we cannot lay the blame of our problems at the door of the Republicans. It would be putting our heads in the sand not to recognize that Democrats are just as corrupt and self-serving as Republicans. Where do you think all that campaign money comes from? It's the nature of the political beast. Honestly, how different would Al Gore have been? (Al Gore's family money comes from oil too.) Maybe we wouldn't be in a war, but who's to say. Perhaps there would have been more terrorist attacks on the US. Perhaps there wouldn't have been any. However, we are in Iraq now. Pulling out when things are just starting to stabilize would be suicidal. (My nephew is over there assigned to a Marine battalion. Apparently, the locals are starting to turn on Al Qaeda and the Iraqi army is growing stronger as the tribes and tribal leaders work together.)

Personally, I am more of a centrist. I know there is a great deal of pork in the government. Too much pork and corruption on both sides. How much deal making goes down? Take a look at one of bills some time and see how a vote was bought by the addition of a couple million dollars for some pet project of a senator that shouldn't really be funded by the government. With the way the numbers are in Congress now, we have to recognize that both sides have their agendas. Rarely are they what is best for We, the People.

I was just writing a comment today saying the same thing...how do we get here from there and who are these two people running on the ticket....the cream of the crop?
I think the dems are now the republicans, and the reps are the fascist..