Education: Theoretical or Reality

Mine go to a private school that teach sentence structure. They also teach that fun time is recess the rest of the time you do your work or you don't get recess.

Julie.....these ladies were from a co-op school....sort fo public-private.

True, it can be fun if the teacher has any kind of imagination. And quite frankly, I think perhaps you are right. Not that I want learning to be NOT fun or anything, but I learned grammar, spelling and all that sort of thing just sitting at a desk and learning. It wasn't exactly fun but I learned it. Quite frankly it bothers me that kids don't know how to write these days. I had to type up a bunch of high school seniors' "What I'm Going To Do When I Graduate" things once and they can't spell or use proper grammar to save their lives.

It would be ideal if teachers could make learning fun. But if they could just get kids to learn in the first place that would make me happier.

I wish I could connect you to my teacher friends, none of whom are on Gather. They could tell you all about what is going on. They are not fond of it either. They also have no control over it.

Essentially, if you try to "force" kids to learn the way we did, you are being mean and parents descend like locusts. It's quite a broken system.

Having two kids. I hate the way they teach. my daughter when she was in the 7 th grade came home and asked for my help. I told her how to do it and she told me that was wrong. We did it my way and the answers were right, but she missed them all because it was not the way they showed her how to do it. They seem to want to show them the hard way of doing it. This is all i need to say, schools seem to get on my nerves.

I think I can tell you what part of the problem is. I went back to college to finish my degree when my own kids were in elementary school. I thought I'd get a teaching certificate as a safety measure because then I'd have a job I could do anywhere. When I told my advisor I wanted to do that, he was horrified. "Oh, no! You're much too intelligent to do that!" he insisted. So it sounds like the brightest and best are being steered away from teaching in the public schools.

I've just GOT to tell a "personal" story about this. Here in Cal. the experts somehow got it made basic policy to teach kids to read by what they called "whole language" methods, which is centered around removing phonics from teaching reading. This idiocy was decomposed after several years, as reading comprehension scores showed incredible declines.

My daughter was about to enter school near the very end of this trend, so I taught her to read myself. In the second grade she tested at a high school graduate level. I suppose that should be taken with a grain of salt when one considers what many high school graduates had to work with.

Teaching can be an awarding career. First you need a love of what you're doing, and the imagination to create a positive learning environment. If the child sees enthusiam for what is being taught he'll respond by learning. What is so difficult about it that it drives teachers to their bitter ends?

I truely hated diagraming sentences in school, I to this day do not recall if I got the concept or not. However I have seen both good and bad teaching styles. Our school district just went through a buyout with some of the long term teachers and we lost some of those who had very good teaching styles that used some of the old ways but added interest and fun into these making both kids and parents happy. I look at some of the ways they try and teach and do not grasp it myself, there are easier ways to get the same answers and less confusing but they use new improved ways.

With "no child left behind" teachers are too busy testing rather than teaching. (Government/public schools)

Remember new math? Tom Leher sings a great ditty about that one and that fad passed as will this. However the political correctness is out of hand. Teachers teach, what's the problem?

Yes, parents do have to take over. Which brings up the need for teachers in the first place.

When I moved to California in 1986 I took the C-BEST exam in order to get a transitional accreditation to do some substitute teaching, I was so appalled by the test, which I could have aced in about sixth grade, that I never went ahead with the project. I could not bring myself to be a cog in that wheel. These days a degree in education is roughly equal to a degree in suntan.

You are right. Things are that bad. Worse in some cases.

Yes, very eye-opening. It reminds me of the time I was at Ring's Restaurant in Dubuque. I overheard some pompous economist guffawing about Ludwig von Mises and his (very true!) statement that economic calculation was impossible under socialism. I wonder what those chumps did when the Soviet Union later fell apart as did the Berlin Wall?! My brother used to be an education reporter and he would bring home the bureaucratic newspeak books of rules and nonsense they had to follow. Charlotte Izerbyt wrote a book called 'The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America' and it fits to a "T." We need a complete separation of school and state, to allow full choice and competition. These ladies can maybe get a job at the Sylvan Learning Center (or will they end up picketing it?!). I guess real learning is lifelong, and as I've observed in my experience, you need to do a lot of outside reading as an antidote to all the official nonsense you pick up in school. Then, don't be surprised if you end up much smarter than these prima dons and donnas!!

I use to lecture and never had a bad class.

I agree with you. Teachers need to require more of not only their students, but also of themselves. They need to be proud of the fact that they are TEACHERS. And they need to realize that anything can be entertaining if it is presented in such a way. We do not have to "dumb down" our children because we don't think they can handle the difficult subject matter. Teachers need to challenge themselves as well as their students. People tend to act out in the manner that is expected of them. And it is this way with students. If we expect the best, then they will strive to give us their best. However, if we expect they cannot give their best, chances are they will not even try.

`From what I can see we need less "Administratots" in our school systems, more TEACHERS & much more parental involvement! The summer reading lists for the hish schools in my county are so filled with drivel & crap that passes for literature that most of it I woyuld not myself much less ask a kid to read. As bad as the Soviet Union was they respected teachers, they rspected education & their kids received an education that was very good. Oh well......tecahing is a vocation requires someone with much patience than I...!

John B..........the "no child left behind" policy is exactly what I am talking about! It is a symptom of the mediocrity that is being foisted off by the "powers-that-be" upon us. All of this massaging of the self-esteem of students so that they do not feel "dumb" or whatever is a load of manure! If the little brtas do not or cannot amke the grades then flunk them! So waht if they feel bad? Maybe....just maybe...they will pull their heads out of their rectums & actually learn something....! I was bored to tears in elementary. I REFUSED to do the repetitious work that was assigned & required in scholl. I di just enough to pass. I was always told thet "you are brighter than that" but the teachers did not give me anything new to do. "Gifted"programs did not exist then. Tahnsk God my dad tausght me to read when i was 2 1/2 & that my parents & my grandparents encouraged me to do so. Whenever I was lucky enough to get teacher who was interesting, I responded. Teaching is a talent that needs to be nurtured......not stifled by burearacy...!

Cheryl.....tahnsak! You are absolutely correct! If soemthing entertains you then you will remember it!

Sir, I am %100 in your corner! (I even used the old-style of putting the "per cent" sign BEFORE the "100") My father was a high school English teacher, and I grew up learning how to grade HS papers on his lap. My own writing skills have deteriorated considerably since he passed on in 1984, but the basics are still there.

The "moderator" of the group you wrote about is in need of some "moderation" herself. You are absolutely right to say that she symbolizes exactly what is wrong with education today. I wish that I had a degree, so that I could put some "old-time learnin'" on these "teachers," who probably need it more than their students!

Excepting the one lady of the group who seemed to "get it," of course.

Even though I'm relatively young, my parents were WW II generation. They were in their 40's when I was born, in '62. There is something of that era that was instilled in me, even as I grew up in the '70's.

Another huge part of the problem is that teaching used to be administered by teachers, and teaching was considered to be a profession. If you get a chance, take a look at some of the text books used in, say, the period between WW I and WW II and compare them to what's being used today. Little kids actually learned things like history, writing, reading, science and math. Now teaching's been turned over to "professionals" and "educators" who dictate what teachers are to teach, and the teachers themselves are reduced to mere technicians following the directions of these so-called experts.

One really frightening thought. Isn't this exactly what's beginning to happen to physicians, especially the private physicians, as they begin to knuckle under to the "experts" in the insurance industry? In some specialties, the job is almost complete. Psychiatrists now hand out pills instead of doing things like actual therapy, which has been turned over primarily to psychologists, and the psychologists who do therapy are now being referred to as mental health care workers instead of psychotherapists.

They are English teachers! Plain and simple. If they are teaching another language such as Spanish or French then they would be Spanish Teachers or French Teachers. Good grief. I guess people just want to sound so important.

I have no idea, but to me here in Quebec, it means, a declassification downward, and a reason for a pay cut. Educator here is a generic term that just about anyone can use, teacher, is profession that requires a licensed degree. I have no idea if your government is planning on cutting pay etc, but it sure the heck sounds like it.

There is nothing more fun than mastering a difficult problem. Modern education has replaced rigor with the rhetoric of false knowledge. The 3 Rs still rule.

I am an English teacher, proudly so, specifically of ESL and occasionally college Freshman Comp.

You understand "publish or perish", I'm sure. It is the source of much crap in the ed departments. Its perps have to get tenure, then promotions, and the way is to publish something "new". Such as an idea as to why we have to change the name from English teacher to language arts teacher.

Meanwhile, kids reach college less and less capable of writing a simple. well-constructed essay. The arrive not knowing not to hurl apostrophes randomly at words ending in -s, a pet peeve of mine. The plural is a simple -s, *never* -'s!!! Ever! Somehow, the younger teachers think kids will learn writing by osmosis, or by invented spelling in the early grades--a travesty--or by spilling feelings all over paper without being expected to make them comprehensible to a specific audience.

The worst offenders are in the pulic schools. I am fed up to the back teeth with the grbage of the public school system and would love to see it completely dismantled with all children getting vouchers, instead, to attend the school of their parents' choice. It would do much to end this sort of tripe being foisted on our kids.

Sorry for the length, but I couldn't resist passing this "joke" along. Without doubt, there are some bad teachers, but the problems with education are for the most part not the fault of the teachers. The new thing in CA, maybe elsewhere as well, is "pacing" - everyone is to be on the same page of the text at the same time - regardless of whether students understnd what they are doing. So much of what goes on in the classrooms is defined by legislatures and other assorted groups of people who are not educators.
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>After being interviewed by the school administration, the eager teaching prospect said:
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>"Let me see if I've got this right. You want me to go into that room with all those kids, and fill their every waking moment with a love for learning, and I'm supposed to instill a sense of pride in their ethnicity, modify their disruptive behavior, observe them for signs of abuse and even censor their T-shirt messages and dress habits.
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>You want me to wage a war on drugs and sexually transmitted diseases, check their backpacks for weapons of mass destruction, and raise their self esteem. You want me to teach them patriotism, good citizenship, sportsmanship, fair play, how to register to vote, how to balance a checkbook, and how to apply for a job.
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> I am to check their heads for lice, maintain a safe environment, recognize signs of anti-social behavior, make sure all students pass the state exams, even those who don't come to school regularly or complete any of their assignments.
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>Plus, I am to make sure that all of the students with handicaps get an equal education regardless of the extent of their mental or physical handicap. I am to communicate regularly with the
parents by letter, telephone, newsletter and report card.
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> All of this I am to do with just a piece of chalk, a computer, a few books, a bulletin board, a big smile AND on a starting salary that qualifies my family for food stamps!

I haven't seen that at my town's school. The English teachers are called just that. It is in a small Alabama town so it might have something to do with that.

Most of the time they use regular methods of teaching; every once in a while they'll try something new. Kids aren't their guinea pigs. They feel it's better to be safe than to put out under educated adults.

Judy has a point though. Teachers have new responsiblities that parents should be in charge of. It isn't just teachers who have changed. It's communities in general. With more support and attention school teachers would have more to rely on than those off the wall studies.

I don't have any kids, but my 15 year old goddaughter is very bright and she tells me that she is bored in school and quits listening to the teachers, not becuase hey are boring, but because she already understands what they are teaching. Does this mean they go over the same thing again and again? I don't know. I am fairly well educated. I went to Catholic schools and was being taught college English there. I love the English language and hate was is being done to it today. I say stay with what works. If this new system isn't working, let's go back to what does.

Good one Doc! Here in Fla. under the no child left behind/f-cat system the liberal teachers union sometimes rattles swords about quitting. Quitting what? Indoctrination posing as education and ruled by fear of upsetting the political correctness stupid cart should just choke on its own hot air or float away in a yellow baloon.

Hi Donald. Great discussion! Sounds like an amusing situation, but I can see the irritation. There was a report out today on the persisting achievement gap between black and white students in the U.S., and I just fired up a discussion about it. You seem to have strong feelings about modern methods of teaching, so I'd love your perspectives on this! Here's a link to the discussion--please comment if you'd like to and you have a chance! Thanks so much.