Follow the Discussion: Mistress of the Art of Death Book Club

What did you learn about gender roles from this book?

Hi Jennifer! Thanks for having the book club. I think there are a lot of great topics we can talk about!

I wasn't able to pick up the book, but I'd love to hear more about it. Hence my question above. So.... I'll just hang out here in the background as the conversation unfolds.

Hi Christine!

Hi Jennifer F. Are you there?

Ms. Meacham, even though I do enjoy reading about history, especially European history, I felt especially glad that I was born in these present times. The book really drives the point home about how hard it was to be a female in those times when gender roles were so much more divided. The men enjoyed travel and adventure while the women were locked into home and nunneries.

So much for hanging out in the background. lol

Hi Ms. Meacham! I'd recommend locating a copy! It is a great book. However, there are a lot of topics we can still talk about even without reading it - like your question.

I don't know about Jennifer, but I think gender roles played a huge role in this book. Back in the 12th century women were put into very defined and limited roles (big surprise, right?) but this is a story about a special woman who was able to break the mold and define her own role. Very inspiring, especially considering the timing.

Thank you for the explanation Jennifer F.. I'd have to say that I definitely agree. I love having the freedom to choose my livelihood and my locale.

Hi Christine and Jennifer! I'm here! I highly recommend this book. It is such a fun way to learn about history and have the mystery unfolding at the same time.

Hey Jennifer - do you know if we're expecting any more people for this book club today? I think there's a lot that can go around!

What was the situation that enabled the main character to break free from the mold that had been set out from her? Was it a situation we'd find ourselves in today?

The book makes it clear that life was precarious and hard for both genders in Medieval times, but the way that men, even young boys, thoughts and opinions were taken seriously while women were totally ignored really makes it nice to be a female in modern times.

I loved reading this book! I find the character, Adelia very intriguing and mysterious in a way. Very interesting book, could hardly put it down after I got past the first few pages.


Oh, and hey everyone! :D

Hey Sarah. Great to see you again!

Great to see you again too, Ms Meacham!

Ms Meacham, without giving the entire story away, Adelia was a doctor who specialized in forensic medicine. She got her training in Salerno which was a more enlightened society than England in those days so women were allowed to study and practice medicine. She was lucky to have been adopted by two progressive people - both doctors - so she was not raised with all the traditional roles. I think that part is important because it shows us how important it is to role model strong females to our children today.

Christine, I know that Sarah is on her way over.

See, hi Sarah!!!

Sarah, I thought the first few pages were a bit hard to get throught too - all the new information about a time that I wasn't so familar with and lots of new concepts to think about like religious pilgrimmages, the Crusades, the priors and prioress, and the unusual landscape, but once that was all laid out the story just flew by.

I'm checking out Mistress of the Art of Death at Amazon.com right now for ways to read inside the book. It doesn't appear that the publisher has enabled that feature yet. But, since it's only $10.20 (on sale right now), it's been added to my shopping cart for reading soon!

Hehe, Hi Jennifer!

Ms. Meacham - it could very well be a situation we find ourselves in today. Adelia, the main character, is a medical examiner trying to solve a murder mystery. But because of the times, she has to hide the fact that she is the ME. Now today, we don't have to hide who we are professionally, but we still face criticism and disbelief based solely on our gender. Basically that we can't hack it - look at the roles that men have held for so long and women still face criticism in. Especially the army!

I must agree, I do feel it's important to remember that Adelia was adopted by two doctors. Now she's one, I agree completely it's a good example that even women of today need good role models.

Ms. Meacham - you won't be disappointed. Ms. Franklin has written a sequal called "The Serpent's Tale" that was released in 2008.

Ms. Meacham -

Check out these links to a couple of the excerpts from the book here on Gather:

A King and His Money Are Soon Parted

The Mystery of the Child Killer: An Excerpt

Christine, that's such a good point to bring up that it was DANGEROUS and almost deadly for people to know that our main character, Adelia, is a doctor. She had to act as the doctor's assistant, while her Arab servant, a very interesting character in his own right, Mansur, was acting as the doctor.

Jennifer,

First off, thanks for hosting a book club discussion. This is very cool!

Did Adelia face any barriers in her career that still exist for women in the workplace today?

What did everyone think about the role of religion in this book? It was so scary how they believed so strongly that the Jewish people were the killers.

Hi Liz! Thanks so much for joining us. While the official barriers for women in the workplace are down today, Adelia faced a common problem that many women face today, in that, with everyone she met, she had to prove beyond a doubt that she was qualified for her position. Everyone accepted her male colleague's qualifications without question, but she had to prove herself over and over. I think this still goes on today. In addition, many men did not like how she was so plain speaking and unconcerned with her physical beauty and charm.

Christine, I thought the religious ascept was as important as the gender part. It was scary that the entire town believed that the Jews had killed the children, even when they were locked up in the castle. It was also interesting how the church was portrayed as so corrupt and interested in profitting from those deaths.

Sarah I completely agree! Today's girls really do need strong role models to realize their full potential. There are so many challenges they can face growing up with their gender that it takes these role models to show them they can break through the glass ceiling. How did you feel about Adelia having to hide her professional identity?

I haven't read the book yet, what was Adelia doing for work?

Christine I felt it really showed the times the book was set in. However, I also felt that even in today's world it's hard for a women to be successful, and be proud of it.

It's important for a women to be proud of the success she accomplishes. In today's society especially, I don't think people should hide what they do, but it happens. Depending on the job title, and the area they are in.

Hi Chris! Adelia was a doctor who specialized in forensic medicine so she was ordered by the King of Sicily to go to England with another doctor who was Jewish, in order to solve the mystery of who is killing children in Cambridge. The local Jews had been blamed for the deaths and were being held for their own protection in a local castle. Henry II, the King of England, was distressed by this event because the Cambridge Jews were responsible for a large payment of his taxes.

Wow! Interesting plot! Thanks Jennifer :)

Sarah, that's a good point. Sometimes I think that women minimize what they do with other people - even today - because we are shy about our accomplishments. That's why I think the prison that women feel today is mostly internal - something of our own making. The book makes it clear that little girls need to be brought up with confidence in their abilities.

Wow Sarah, I couldn't agree more. I think today women feel like they have to hide their success in order to be accepted by men. I'm not saying ALL women do but I would say it happens. I even think that men sometimes "say" they want women to be successful but are even more threatened by the ones who are!

What do you other ladies think?

Chris, the ending is such a surprise and the story flows so well that I read the entire second half of the book in one sitting - I even skipped dinner and I *never* miss a meal :-)

That's funny Jennifer! I will have to put it on my list of books to read!

Has anyone read any other books by this author? I'm not familiar with her work.

Chris, I wouldn't be surprised if Ms. Franklin's books became a television series or a movie some day, then you would be all "in the know" :-)

Hi Linda, I have not read any others but her real name is Diana Norman so she has other books under that name as well!

Hate to do this so quickly here everyone, but a thunder and lightening storm is starting, so I need to shut down. :( Crazy wheather here in MI when there's snow all over, and now it's storming like this.

Peace & Love to all!

Thanks Christine. I will be sure to check her out.

Jennifer F., Do you think this book would translate well onto the big screen like Phillippa Gregory's "The Other Boleyn Girl"? If so, who can you envision portraying the lead characters?

Linda, I haven't. This is the first I had heard of Ariana Franklin. But, she has written a sequel to this book that I am looking forward to reading called "The Serpent's Tale". It was to be released in January 2008.

I'm just curious what other authors in this genre you enjoy reading? I really liked the Outlander series by Diana Gabaldon. She was on Gather not too long ago.

Linda, this book would make a movie very similar to what I've seen to "The Other Boleyn Girl' - I haven't seen that movie yet -only the trailers. Adelia is a blond and no-nonsence kind of gal - I think a lot of actresses would enjoy playing her. This book is very often compared to our modern CSI shows in that the two main characters, Adelia and her partner, Simon, examine the bodies and collect clues that lead them to the killer.

Jennifer, are there any particular actresses you would like to see play the role of Adelia?

Christine, that was probably the reason why the name Ariana Franklin is not so familiar to us. I read her article about all of the research that went into the writing of this novel and her career experiences that inspired her to have a strong female character. It is obvious that she has spent her entire life writing.

Linda, I am a big fan of historical fiction. My favorite author in this genre is James Michener, who once wrote a murder mystery very similar to Ms. Franklin's work, called "The Novel" set in Amish country. I am going to check out Diana Gabaldon and put in a connection request to her. I think I would enjoy her series too.

Liz, for some reason Charlize Theoron is coming to my mind. She's blond and powerful and can take on those strong women roles. Plus from the book, I get the feeling that Adelia is blessed with beauty, even though she does nothing to bring that to the forefront of her life.

I really would like to see this book shown on the screen. I can just imagine how beautiful the river Cam in Cambridge with all those medieval castles would look.

Jennifer, I agree with the Charlize Theron idea. I think she's be great in this role and could see her doing it! Who knows? Maybe from our chat to the director's ears!

Sarah, take care! I know how those storms in Michigan are! I lived there from 1988-1992. Thanks so much for participating and writing such an awesome review.

Christine, wouldn't that be cool! We would feel so influencial. The setting along with those colorful characters and scary scenes would make a great movie that would attract both genders to the movies. I can see Oscar potential with this one for sure.

Thank you ALL so much for coming and making such a lively and fun discussion time. I'll be around so if anyone else wants to chat about this book, feel free.

I really loved this book, particularly the 12th century historical details!

Thank you for the links to preview chapters here on Gather Christine! I can't wait to check them out.

P.S. As coincidence would have it, I was sidetracked from this bookclub meeting by a phone call from a publicist a new make-up store in town. They're flying in a celebrity make-up artist from New York on Saturday, and wanted to know if I wanted to get made over into a celebrity look. I selected, of all things, Charlize Theron. I'll be doing a photo essay here on Gather for the makeover so all of you can check out how close it actually comes.... In the meantime, I'll be reading up on this book!

Elizabeth, I loved learning more about Medieval England - it's not a time period I thought would be so intensely interesting - I figured it was the Dark Ages and nothing much was going on in Northern Europe at that time. It was so interesting learning so much more about the Crusades and those pilgrammes from Canterbury during Easter and how Thomas Becket was killed and the rule of Henry II. I loved hearing about the Judgment Day - the Assize when the King's men came to rectify all that had happened since the last time. Now I really want to take another trip to England with all this new information in mind.

Ms. Meacham - I can't wait to see! I would pick Charlize Theron too - such a natural, elegant look. that is going to be so fun - tell us all about your experience.

This sounds like a good book. I'll have to check into it.

Thanks so much, Mike! I totally appreciate all your support.

Shannon, you will truly enjoy it - the characters are unforgetable and the setting is beautiful and educational. I loved learning a little more about history and not feeling like it was work.

I am sorry that I missed this meeting; but would like to input my thoughts as well.


I have read through all the comments and for me there was more information then just the way women were precieved in the 12th century, though the main character struggles are brought to light.

Some of Adelia's action's surely would have brought death to women of that day; I guess that would be the fiction part.

However the novel brings to light of the jewish and commoners struggles as well. It speaks of prejudices of various kinds.

This is a very complex and emotional book of how people thought about other people place in their society.

Blessings

What an engaging, thoroughly relevant discussion. It is incomprehensible that in our modern day, women still live covertly under the shadow and power of men, dictatorships and oppressive belief systems.

Wiaka, that is such a good observation - that is probably why Ms. Franklin had so many subplots going on with the Jews in the castle, the Arab Eunuch, the way the King disrespected the Church to the point of killing Thomas Becket, and the way the Church treated the commoners. When I was told I was going to be reviewing a murder mystery about missing children, I didn't expect such a complex book bringing forth so many issues. I was so pleasantly surprised that not only was I entertained for the week I read the book, but that I feel I had a class on Medieval Society in Europe too.

Edward, hello! It is easier to understand how the women lived in the 12th Century by imagining the plight of women under Tailban rule, for example. They are thought of as property and not as individuals and not allowed to have a professional life of any sort. It's crazy that in some parts of the world the Dark Ages continues on.

I'm sorry I missed the meeting too! You guys played one of my favorite games... fantasy movie casting! :-) I'll have to give it serious thought and look at some English and European actors to play the roles.

It's neat to see such a turnout for the discussion! And everyone's comments are very interesting and thought-provoking, too.

The level of historical research needed for this book is something that caught my eye right away. I liked how she interspersed bits of classical works in the book.

There are intriguing bits of information about the Crusades and I liked Picot's point about how the Crusaders were creating an atmosphere of hatred by their intolerance and bigotry that would cause a backlash into the future. The Holy Lands were actually very well blended in population and cultural tolerance in the times before the Crusades. It wasn't perfect, but they did work together.

I thought the women's issues of the day weren't so much a part of this book. There were aspects that were mentioned, but in general, all of the female characters were breakers of the mold, so to speak. The Prioress with her hunting fetish and (poorly organised) business-like handling of her convent, Adelia's unorthodox upbringing and education (even for Salerno), the fen woman's relationship with the Prior and her life in the fens running her own eel business and being respected for it (drats, but I can't remember her name and my book is not available!). The women operate outside the framework available but are still affected by it. This is true of any time period and either gender, but the amount of freedom allowed to men in all time periods and to women as time progresses into the 21st century is admittedly greater.

I think women are still struggling and will continue to because of reproductive issues. It's a biological reality and both sexes are hard-wired for it. We learn things individually, but all of our different societies, cultures and religions have their own rules. And there will always be people and groups that work to gain power over others, through political, religious, economical, societal, etc. means.

Role-models are very important in anyone's life, female or male. Having good ones helps so much in every way possible.

I've heard about this book in relation to other books I have read. It sounds good, if I see it at Target I might pick it up.