Sooky's letter to Kathryn - Tuesday's Writing Essential

I didn't understand this until I read Sooky's letter to Russell and the comments. You're an amazing author and so versatile. Thank you for sharing your talent with us.

Very sad way of life.

We take a lot for granted.

Wow I feel her loneliness. Her lack of English and culture difference hinder her from really live the American life. Very nice story Kathryn.

It is more difficult for Asians than for Europeans. Americans often complain about non-natives that 'such and such groups' always stick together; often, that is true - it is a double-edged sword - It is difficult to assimilate into a culture, even one so close as Canada and America - and people always find likeness in those who are from a similar culture; the walls need to come down on both sides, a very long process usually. Accents, of course, make it more difficult.

When I was in Canada - 9 years total - the first two years I hung out with Canadians, Americans, Europeans. After about 3 years, I realized I preferred Americans and Europeans, and then that became that I preferred Americans. I returned to the US for two years - after my first four years in Montreal - then another 4 years in Montreal and one in Toronto. I had been on the debate club traveling frequently to the US - I felt I could breathe 'freely' in the US - so, my choice was made, and I soon returned back here to live.

Sometimes, it is the subtle things - small differences between countries such as the US and Canada as much as it is the more obvious things - race, ethnic origin, language, accent - that can make assimilation difficult.

If we think that whatever groups hang primarily by themselves - we have to ask ourselves if we do the same thing. Do we really make an effort? Do we hang mostly with our like groups?

It is natural. It is always easier for the First Generation, because they have no accent (born here) and they make friends when they are very young children.

Kathryn, this is beautiful. Moving. I have had little time. And you may or may not know ...I have never done anything like this. Russell is late responding to Sooky for a very good reason. Liz only sees Russell once a week. She saw him today. Now, as a volunteer Sooky may not send mail to patients. Today Liz gave the letter from Sooky to Russell to read [not to keep]. This is the reason for such delay.

I am currently writing Russell's letter to Liz where he makes this acknowledgment. Hopefully I can publish it tomorrow. I suspect that Liz ought write Sooky a note ... as she has been the go-between with Sooky's letter.

So ... I do not want Sooky to feel slighted.

By the way. Russell has been an Iraq Veteran. But due to Sooky's mention of him as a Vietnam Vet ... I am in the process of changing that and the writings. And of course, coming from me it simply made more sense to make him a Vietnam Vet. Thank you for that.

Funny that I never thought he was an Iraq vet. I never really thought about any of it at all. It just occured to me that Russell was a Vietnam vet....

Good to know the protocol, too. Sooky and Kathryn really do not know these things, so it is good to know.

I am so behind on all of this....

Honey, people are people. Each country does the same. Very sad.

This is a wonderful heads-up on customs I had no clue about......so creative. Beautifully written. I could feel her longing.

You put so much heart into these stories. I am starting to bond to your Sooky, my dear, and know one day I will hold a book with all her tales in my hand. *hint, hint, as in PUBLISH!* =)

TJI - There is quite a range of abilities to assilmiate among all groups - Asians succeed very well in society for a lot of reasons; the people from any culture who find it most difficult to assimilate are often women who have been here for 40 years and who did not work much outside the home; 40 years ago there was not the support structure for assimilating into the culture or for learning English as there is now.

My current ESL students have much better English skills - regardless of whether they are native Asian or European speakers than many people who have been here for a few decades AND who did not get out much, as Sooky did not get out much.

That is the point. Getting out into the world versus staying home.

Two entirely different generations - then vs. now.

Northern Europeans have very similar work habits to Asians - meaning they Asian or - German, Scandinavian or Poles/Czech Republic - EDUCATED professionals - which is what we mostly get here and the type with which I have been most familiar with in my work and personal life over the last few decades - have MUCH stronger work ethics than most Americans.

What vacation style? In Germany, many professionals work 16 hour days. Same with most professionals in Shanghai.

This gives us much more insight to Sooky's feelings. Liz's comment was also very interesting. I look forward to watching Sooky become more comfortable in her own skin.

Kathryn - You really have made her feel real to me.

Sue* and JM, thank you....

I love this post, and I like Sooky more and more. "We have fun time." made me laugh out loud! She sounds like a nice lady and someone who would be very interesting to know. I love what you're doing with her and Russell.

THANKS FOR SHARING

Barb, it is so interesting to me that Sooky and Russell exist. I feel like they rae real people, too.....

I am sure a lot of people would disagree with me but I think this is highly insulting to most Asians. I AM Asian, aware of that era and of the people that you are speaking about, but, I think you are propagating a stereotype that do NOT write the way you have portrayed your character. MOST Asians are better educated and well-spoken than that! We might not speak as fluently as the rest of the world but we do write the best way we can! We do NOT spell or write as we speak Madame! I think this would have worked better as a dialogue between Sooky and "Kasryn", since she would never intentionally misspell her name in a letter or commit other syntax errors .

Just sayin'.

thank you for saying that Duckie, it is exactly how I felt when I read this, but I was so horrified that I couldn't even come up with a response.

Duckie and CC ... you don't know anyone who talks like that? Have you read what Kathryn has said about Sooky? Perhaps Kathryn shouldn't have had Sooky spell her name the way it would sound, but it's her character and she can write it any way she wants to.

I agree that most Asians don't write or speak like that, but this story is about one who does write and speak like that. Saying people like this do not exist is to marginalize people who already feel marginalized. That's like saying because there are many educated, well-spoken black people (Obama is a great example) there does not exist any black person with a poor education or who speak something that would make an English teacher cringe.

If she were portraying Sooky as a stupid woman, or some kind of Asian stereotype without depth, you might be right, but this woman Kathryn has created is based on real people she knows and has a depth of character that some real people don't have.

I understand wanting to defend your ethnic group ... I do the same with my passion of ferrets. "All ferrets bite" is not true. But if someone were to write a story about a ferret that did bite, it wouldn't be an issue of stereotypes or of spreading false information about ferrets, since there can exist one that bites.

I'm not all that politically savvy or even politically correct, but I also don't think midgets are inherently funny. Sooky is amusing and lovable because of her failings.

barb, yes Kathryn has a right to write the character anyway she wants to. By that same token, i have the right to be offended by it and the right to say i'm offended by it.

now to compare a ferret (animal) stereotype to a racial (human) one is quite frankly stretching things a bit, as is your comparison with Obama.

Should black people not be offended when a white person writes a letter supposedly written by a black person and relegates them to "speaking" only in Ebonics?

For that matter, if this is based on people she really knows, has she shown it to them? i bet they would be offended that she perceives them that way, as i know i would be if one of my acquaintances wrote something like that based on knowing me.

I find the conversation interesting and see bits of each side, from both the writing and social standpoints. I want to think about this more and maybe dig into the writing books before voicing opinions. All that aside, I enjoyed learning more about Sooky's background and think you did a terrific job of showing us how she ended up where she is today (emotionally, as well as in the volunteer position). I think she shows strength in reaching out to you for help.

From the writing project standpoint, I want to remind everyone that the characters should be fictitious and their stories should not be recognizable events from the lives of people we know. That might get us in trouble or cause hurt feelings. Also, we are not part of their stories. The purpose in writing the letter from the character to yourself (as the writer) is to help separate the character from yourself so you'll write more from her point of view than your own. I apologize if my instructions made anyone think they are to write themselves into the storyline.

Speaking from my experience of working in SE Asia for 18 years (living there for 13 of those) these are characters that I recognize, and so would many of my former colleagues. Well, done, "Kasryn".
As for the spelling, it's a technique to capture a very recognizable accent. The only criticism I have of it is (as Duckie said) it's presented as a letter, not as actual speech. If this were presented as dialog between Kasryn and Sooky, then it's pretty near perfect.

During my time in Indonesia I met many Asian wives of American men. Some were well educated, some not so well. But all were intelligent and negotiated the cultural minefields fairly well.

This is in fact partially based upon a woman I know very well, who does speak exactly as presented here, and who sometimes does call me Kathryn and sometimes Kasryn and who cannot say Harvard Square but Harvard Scare. (I have heard Harvard Scare) from other Koreans, also.

The woman upon whom this is partially based - and it is based on my total experience of native Asian speakers - has a master's degree in English literature from a Korean university, worked in libraries here but whose husband is actually away teaching and doing God knows what else.

Her letters are full of errors much more serious than this. She currently teaches Korean language at a college, but does not drive, does not have any REAL American friends, and prefers to do everything the Korean way, despite that that mode of living - not driving, shoveling the snow so her husband won't have to - cooking everything from scratch, putting up with him and catering to him - is hard on her and interferes greatly with her happiness.

I know many native Asian speakers since I am an ESL teacher. These days, students who have been studying English for several years in Korea or China have a much better command of English than many who came here 40 years ago and who had much less English instruction and before tutoring services even existed.

My stepmother came from Poland in 1960 to work with my father. She was an MD and my father was a young PhD. After a year, they became engaged and married. My stepmother was highly educated but had only one year of English.

With this one year of English, she was expected to start doing reserach and teaching medical students in pharmacology.

Not only did she confuse 'purr' with coffee 'percolators' but her ability to communicate in English was still quite broken.

There is at least now a support system of tutoring and many many English language schools for the vast number of young professionals who are coming here to work and study.

Not so 40 years ago, because professionals only began coming here really after WWII.

And the difficulty in aculturation lies partly in language, but even after language difficulties are mastered, there are many subtle areas that are difficult to negotiate.

Immigrants of all levels often feel more comfortable with other people from a similar background.

My stepmother always preferred to hang out with other professors from Eastern Europe than with English or French Canadians, the other choices in Montreal.

Since I have been with non-native English speakers my entire life, I am very comfortable around them, am patient with them and empathize with language and cultural difficulties.

Having lived for 9 years in Canada, I finally wanted to return to the US because I preferred the US rather than the Canadian way. Subtle differences in many areas of life.

The Sooky here is very much fictionalized as is the Kathryn. This is not a real person but a very fictionalized composite and then fictionalized even more; Sooky in fact includes parts of many people, such as parts of the fictional Kathryn.

I’m back to offer my opinion, which is only that, and my apology for putting you in this difficult position. I asked your to write the letters, which had to be done in first person. That’s difficult – and it is also just a character development exercise, not your real story. I’m not sure everyone who read this realizes that.

I understand what you are trying to do with this character. I care about her and want to know what happens to her, so you’ve captured me. I am also sympathetic to Duckie’s concerns, and I agree with Barb that you can write a character anyway you want to write her. That’s a lot to juggle and I don’t envy you this position. But I do want to offer suggestions and help the best I can.

With Barb’s point comes responsibility. We can write characters the way we want but then we have to be willing to let people dislike our characters. I don’t think you want anyone to dislike Sooky, or for her to offend any reader. That means you have to take Duckie’s concerns into consideration and decide how you fix this so that it offend the least - without compromising your purpose for this character.

The sticky part here is in the writing. I think you can solve most of this by writing your story in third person with a sympathetic narrative voice. You have her voice in your head – you’ve proven that through the character development exercises. You can make us ‘hear’ everything she says in that voice by using only a few mispronunciations and syntax errors. Subtlety will be your friend now because you do know her so well.

Maybe what I’ve said will prompt others who will offer more specific suggestions for you to consider. I want to see Sooky work because I think she has an interesting story to tell.

(somebody critique my critique - I see errors and am too sleepy to fix them)

Interesting discussion. A little sticky, though. I guess I'm naive, because I don't see how my ferret example was inapplicable to humans. It was just using the English language. I could have said if some noobs are garbs, that doesn't mean all noobs are garbs. Or I could have said Set A intersects with Set B but is not equal to Set B.

As for black people being offended by someone writing a character that speaks Ebonics, have you read any paperbacks targeted at young black people? Many of those characters speak Ebonics, or some version of it, in their dialog. Actors in films who portray poor black inner city youth speak like that. I'm not seeing droves of black people boycotting those films. Should the actor be held accountable for offending someone?

Stereotypes exist in characters and stories because, at least to some extent, there ARE people out there who fit those stereotypes. In fact, there is emerging a new stereotype ... the person who polices other people for perceived insults and non-PC speech. I'm not saying we shouldn't police ourselves, but anything taken to any extreme isn't a good thing.

Having said all that, I think Sandy's comment is a good one ... a sprinkling of mispronunciations can go a long way to generate a mental image. Nothing more tedious than wading through large amounts of text that has been phonetically rendered. Not that you did that, Kathryn. :)

I'm glad my character speaks without any accent. I'm not sure I could manage a discussion like this!

I do live in a well to do neighborhood with a lot of people from all over, and many Asians. And with my ESL students, for example, each person has their own individual abilities and motivation regarding learning a language, no matter what their native language. People whose native language is Spanish, French or German are often considered by ESL companies to be in the easieast category - strictly based on their native language, whereas Portuguese speakers, Polish, Russian, Greek or Turkish, or Armenian speakers, for example, are considered in the second category of difficulty in learning English, and Asian speakers- primarily Mandarin or Korean or Japanese speakers, plus other languages that do not use the Latin alphabet are considered in the most difficult category.

Still, each and every person has their own abilities and motivation regarding learning a language.

And it was much more difficult 4 decades ago to become fluent easily than it is now. There is a support system now, whereas one barely existed decades ago.

I know tons of professional Asians who have been here between 10 and 40 years; some speak and write very well, and some - particularly those who do not like to read at all, even in their native language - have much more difficulty communicating in spoken or written English.

I plan to introduce a Polish speaker soon. I have 4 decades of experience with that.

"Nothing more tedious than wading through large amounts of text that has been phonetically rendered."

That's why we are taught not to use it now. Finding a way around it is tedious, also, but only for one person.

I mostly agree with Kathryn about what matters in terms of integration--it is indeed whether the immigrant "goes out there" and interacts with mainstream society. Educated immigrants (who usually come already speaking English fairly well, at least these days) and immigrants from smaller countries or countries that send relatively few immigrants will have to spend most of their time outside their group.


Kathryn said: Immigrants of all levels often feel more comfortable with other people from a similar background.

There are exceptions to this though--many educated immigrants feel more comfortable with people at their own education level, from anywhere, than less educated people from their own countries (who are, however, good sources of "where can you buy such and such" information if they're old timers).

I'm surprised Portuguese is in a different ESL-difficulty category from Spanish. That must be entirely based on accent (the tendency of Peninsular Portuguese to swallow vowels and of Brazilian Portuguese to palatalize d's and t's, I suspect), since the vocabulary and the grammar of those two are extremely close.

/Do a Hungarian speaker instead--I won't be offended. :-)/

I mostly agree with Kathryn about what matters in terms of integration--it is indeed whether the immigrant "goes out there" and interacts with mainstream society.

This has been my experience/observation. That's why I think Kathryn can make this work. The background she gives in this explains why Sooky hasn't integrated. I think the first person voice (which Kathryn didn't choose) might have led to some misunderstanding. It's much easier to be sympathetic when someone else tells us about a person's hardships than it is to sympathize with that person saying, "Woe is me." I use that as a broad example - not saying that Sooky was whiny in this letter.

Aniko, I did not specify that I meant that educated immigrants often prefer other educated immigrants...and yes, educated immigrants often do not want to deal with (in my experience, the non-educated immigrants from their country)...

True for my Polish stepmother and I am quite involved with a few educated Asian immigrant women and couples - most of the women drive and work outside the home but all of them do not really feel accepted by "American" - non- Asian culture here.

"American" specifing non-Asian is their term, not mine.

Many times I have been invited to friends' lovely homes for lovely Asian dinners, where my family was the only non-Asian family.

I am trying to keep Sooky vulnerable.

Or rather make her an appealing character who is vulnerable. I happen to know someone who annoys me a great deal, but that is a different situtation and not germane to this exercise.

Underneath a person's annoyances one usually finds unfulfilled vulnerabilities.

i was surprised by the difference in categorizing Portuguese speakers as having more difficulty learning English than Spanish speakers, but I have found it to be true. We do have a lot of Brazilians here, perhaps one of the largest communities in the US.

Despite various groups or individuals having a great job, great title and position, good home, money or whatever, it does not mean that they feel integrated into society. Their children always feel MUCH more integrated into society, if they were born here or came here at a very young age, such as 2, 5 or 6 - under 12, when they could learn English without an accent.

And Portuguese speakers from Portugal have a much easier time learning English than do the Brazilians, but a lot depends on individuals, too. European Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese are not identical, nor is Sao Paolo pronunciation identical with that of Rio's.

I think Asians are subject to more prejudice than Europeans - at least, the Asians I know feel this very, very deeply.

This is my first time meeting Sooky, I am happy to hear she has a desire to get out and meet people.

(I see how the phonetic spelling of Sooky's accent could be insulting, and I agree with Sandy. A different perspective would allow the narrator to tell us how she speaks, leaving the reader with a taste of her accent).

In her previous letter to Russell, I got a sense of her isolation. Now we see that she is eager to make a change. It will be nice to see what is in store for Sooky!

thank you....I am wondering how much time I have....

I will have to catch up eventually.