Rock and roll is about rebellion, I get that. But when you've arrived at a point in history where even torch singer Norah Jones includes an anti Bush song on her album it's the equivalent of seeing "grunge fashion" on sale at Sears. At that point its no longer "edgy", no longer rebellious. Its now a well worn and conformist path. I like Norah Jones. But I'll pass on the latest offering. I like her voice and musical stylebut I listen to her to soothe away irritation, not experience it.
I roll my eyes at the notion a rock musician in modern America is "courageous"when they "speak out." C'mon, you live in a country where you can burn the flag, tear up a picture of the pope, submerge a crucifix in urine for "art's sake", burn your leaders in effigy and remain free to go about your business, that ain't courage. On the other hand,if you are a Russian citizen rocking against Putin, an Iranian citizen denouncing your country's policies, or an Afghani woman advocating for women's rights, that's courage. I wouldn't call Natalie Maines "brave."
Bush, war, global warming, the "downtrodden," I 'm uncomfortable with rich and pampered rock stars singing about the downtrodden. It reminds me of John Edwards "two americas." Yes, there are two; The one you multi millionaires live in and the one the rest of us live in.
I'm into music for entertainment. I go to concerts and buy music to get away from hassle, conflict, and political sloganeering. Increasingly, I'm turning away from acts I formerly enjoyed. I resent their arrogance in assuming that- 1. I subscribe to their world view. 2. That if I did, I would pay for them to talk about it. When I go to a show or because I enjoy an artist's recordings, I want to be entertained, not be subjected to a musician's take on "the issues."
I like people to think and believe what they want. I think thats uniquely American. Isn't that why we came to this continent? Rock musicians tend to be left of center of course, then there's Ted Nugent. But whether I'm listening to Ted shout obscenties about Janet Reno or Bruce Springsteen try to "stick it to 'the man' I am equally irritated. I admit it; I'm escapist when it comes to music. If I wanted a bunch of divisive rhetoric I'd have stayed home and listened to NPR or Michael Savage. I have cable news for political opinion. I turn to music to for a place to get away from all that.
Bonnie Raitt is one of the finest slide guitarists ever. She's been to my area a few times. I've never gone. Her appearances have always tied to a series of anti nuclear speeches and left wing fund raising. I don't want to listen to a Code Pink rep chatter. Its too difficult to dance to.
There are some exceptions: There are some groups which have, from their inception, been heavily political. Thats fine. I know what to expect from them and tend to avoid them. Rage Against the Machine, Joan Baez, and so on. Their fans would feel let down if they didn't hear some revolution speak and political diatribe. That's what they come for in part.
Performers who build a career on agititating attract fans who like to be agitated, who relish the experience of getting together to all hate the same thing as one big angry group. But acts whose hit material is of non political nature heartache, love, cars, loneliness etc, do a disservice to their fans by treating a venue as a lecture hall. It may be just me, but I buy concert tickets to have a good time, not listen to rocker's take on foriegn policy.
recommend this
email
print
link to this page
Comments: 60
"Hey! I'm watching cartoons here! Keep your agenda out of my Saturday mornings!"
I'm also sick of the election coverage having started at least 6 months ago. When it's time for the election, I'll get into the swing of it. I'm sick of being deluged with it already!
I look for entertainment to divert me from angst, not contribute to it.
re:election. It has been annoying for me to have wall to wall Iowa coverage as well. Its hard for me to get excited about a straw poll I have no power to effect. Ditto NH primary. It would mean more if it was something I could vote in. As usual, I'll have to deal with the candidates I'm given regardless of the outcome. *yawn*
Ina - Politics is like Christmas. In the past twenty years it just keeps starting earlier and earlier. By the time it's actually here we're sick of it.
Bono's pretty much the only one I'm willing to give a pass on this because he doesn't try to force a particular political agenda. He generally works both sides of the aisle to drum up support for his causes.
Thx Raven, always happy to hear from someone outside my target audience.
Chris, I'll bet it cost no more than a burger and a coke (maybe less) to hear your janitor's stem cell views. And you can get a front row seat! If I were famous would I use my status to advocate for something I felt strongly about? I probably would. I'd like to think it would be at an appropriate event though. One where people who had come there expressly to see me knew what they were in for.
Vicky, you Phunky little snow hating mama! I bet you could give Fergie some serious competition if you were so inclined. ;)
Obliged Todd. I saw Zakk Wylde and Black Label Society in SF last year. Between beers Zakk approached the mic and got a little off topic. Pointing his finger at the floor, then the balcony seating- "Listen you mother####ers, when you say your ####ing prayers tonight, remember to say a prayer for our boys and girls in uniform."
That I didn't mind that a bit.
I can dig it Esther. Obviously, we all have political views. Like you, I want to engage in them when it suits me, not when I've gone through a lot of expense and effort to hear something else.
But the music industry has become heavily cause oriented. In it's lauded and acknowledged role as cultural commentator, the majority of today's musicians seem more bent on spreading words than sharing bitchin' licks.
I'm saying you have a point. Although I do appreciate that artists use their platforms and celebrity to bring focus to worthy causes (some of which would stay completely under the average person's radar if not for celebrities' pointings), but it sure does get tedious and irksome when it happens all the time.
These are good thoughts and I thank you for sharing them.
I think I'll schedule myself some headphone time.
I can relate Ellen. I'm not a big fan of boycotts of music because of their stance on something. Sinead O'Conner for example. I thought her pope protest thing was ill advised, but if you like her music what difference does it make what she thinks?
For instance, I think David Lee Roth is a tool. (if he's reading, There goes my backstage pass) but that doesn't stop me from grooving to "Jamie's Cryin'."
What initially ticked me off a long time ago was Andy Warhol and then "I'd like to give the world a coke". EWWW!
It's not just you. I always wonder how these folks think they are any more knowledgeable about issues than anyone who sits in their audience on any given night might be. I pay to experience their talent and I believe it shows an arrogance on their part that they believe that talent includes enlightening us about whatever their political or world views might be.
This is a country going down the tubes because it's free citizens are too busy going to concerts, drinking beer, and what not to pay attention to those whom they sent to Washington to represent them. Those of us who can, write what we think, and I guess those who can't, sing if that's their medium.
I believe there should be a law that no campaigning is allowed earlier than 11 months before the election. In this day of instant messaging, Internet etc. it should not take any longer than that to hear the lies their trainers have made up for them. And that's my take on politics.
Peace.
I was just more the Ramone's "Sheena is a Punk Rocker" type thasn a Sex Pistols "God Save The Queen" type. As you point out, there will be allowances, exceptions, heck call it back pedaling on my part, in a number of cases.
Like sharon's example. And of course the most obscene product placement jingle of all time. Catchy though! :)
That was rather simplistic and two dimensional Cynthia. Here's my sad face. :(
I'll wear it in the elevator.
Is that your "professional" opinion? That I'm "afraid" of ideas? That is one of the most pathetic and disingenuous pop psych deflections deployed by the left in what passes for discourse now. The clinical model you attempt to label me with: "Phobia." If a man is opposed to Hillary, why he must be "afraid of strong women! If a US citizen wants the borders secure, they are called "xenophobic." etc. etc etc. absurd. Thanks for the free psych eval though.
Deb A, you delineate both my irritation and conflict.
I like Susan Sarandon. I think she's a great actress and I enjoy her movies. While I disagree with a lot of her politics, I support her right to say what wants. Would I pay to hear her speak? No. But if I did, I'd know what I was getting.
By all means, people should hate whatever and whoever they want if it makes them happy. But yes, if you are a singer, please sing instead of preach from the stage. I'm going to a concert not a rally
BTW, I am a singer and musician. I've performed in front of people of all kinds of political persuasions since the 70's. Some of my instrumental guitar work has been on nationally syndicated television. Who knows, maybe you've even heard me play.
Now, what makes me more "knowledgable" or "qualified" to wax political than the bus driver or postman? Nothing.
I assure you , if you show up somewhere my band is playing, please come to have fun, not to hear my views on school vouchers, immigration, or foriegn aid. Because "fun" is what I have always tried to deliver from behind a microphone. Not my opinions. I would appreciate the same from bands I pay to go see.
So, no more beer or music until we get the world straightened out? Thats gonna be a hard sell. Sounds like the Taliban. ;)
Liked your idea about the campaign. Can we make it illegal for stores to put up Christmas decor before December too?
I get the impression that part of your displeasure is with what happens outside the music, such as the banter between songs at a show or campaigning for their favorite candidate. I can kind of appreciate that. But if someone's pissed off and writes a song about it, I want to hear it. Some great songs have been written because someone was pissed off at the establishment. A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall, War Pigs, Black and Blue, Orgasmatron, Anarchy in the UK.
Between the passion of the music and the knowledge that I'm not alone in my feelings, I appreciate angry, political songs. I want music to kick me in the ass. If I want to be entertained at the end of the day, I'll watch whatever crap they're serving up to the masses on TV.
Angry music? Heck yeah! The aforementioned Black Label is one of the most savage bands ever. Love 'em. Rob Zombie, Sabbath. Dio, Crue. Dig all that. Sabbath's War Pigs is a great tune.
Its a combination of the tunes in some cases, the between song yammer in other cases. Anarchy in the UK is infectious. Can't argue. If I were to go see the Pistols I'd know what was coming. But listening to a vocalist hijack the gig with his speech about US foriegn policy when they should be playing some $#$#ing music irks me.
Not to say the music can't be pissed off sounding and still be entertaining. But if I go see a rock concert, I expect there to be rocking, not an exposition of personal beefs.
http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474977183908&nav=Namespace
I agree that if an artist is doing "political" art just to jump on the bandwagon and try to make the almighty buck then something may be missing.
But I'm not at all against an artist making the buck.
When we've got crap like Britney...her music (or what her label calls her music) and not her insanity...I would get pissed to see her try to do something political...because I would know it would be fake.
When Norah Jones (daughter of Ravi Shankar) does a folk tune giving her political views i can appreciate an artist writing what they feel...while her father writes music about/for love Norah has pretty much done the same she has become a pop musician only because she gets radio airplay from people that think this is good music. (it is)
Bob Dylan wrote and actually still writes songs about politics but I don't see people saying he should stop. Actually if you ask him he would say he's just trying to sell records...weird.
No, it doesn't take as much courage to sing about women's rights in America as it would in Iran. But if the artist wishes to express that in their art..whether it be ripping a photo of the pope on a national live tv show or singing a song with the lyrics "i am woman, hear me roar" then the artist can do so. and not have to stop and say well everyone else is doing this, i'd better not.
That's what makes art art...the artists expression or feelings
It reads "CUT FEDERAL SPENDING - ELECT JOHN McCAIN"
Maybe because it's boring as hell to listen to.
Dylan has been a protest artist since forever. He isn't flinging out some "me too" action on politics. I like some of his stuff. Especially if Johnny Winter or Hendrix is covering it. That harmonica ...yeow.
What I'm the most bugged about gil, is an artists catalog NOT reflecting this kind of angle and then wasting time between songs haranguing the audience with a bunch of polarizing BS. Thats getting me there under false pretenses. I can go listen to Chris' janitor for that.
I am all for an artist making a buck. I want everyone to make money, Sting, The Dixies, Walmart, you name it.
Greg, imagine the pitcher taking the mic to excoriate his favorite political punching bag instead of throwing the ball. THats it right there.
I'd echo Deb A. What being entertained looks like differs among us of course.
S. chicken, maybe life has done a tap dance on their happy place.
Folk singers were a protest movement. I would fully expect to hear any manner of protest speeches at one of their shows. I imagine most of their fans would. I'm not one. I don't want their opinions kept behind closed doors, I just don't want them using the time I rented to see them being used. Call a press conference.
Most art, music included, is about provoking certain emotions. If you're looking for pure escapism, you may as well listen to the music of the Carpenters on Muzak.
Rock and roll, as you correctly note, is about rebellion. It also is the offspring of a number of genres (folk, blues, jazz, gospel, etc.) which were heavily tinged with political messages. If you've ever listened to Woody Guthrie or Billie Holliday or even some of the very old bluegrass music--you're more than likely hearing a protest or political song.
I have no problem at all with artists sharing their personal opinions - after all isn't every single song, painting, poem whatever a personal opinion?
I'm shocked by how many people in this thread feel like the election coverage is unimportant, annoying or goes on too long. This is a Presidential election! Probably the most important election we've had in years. The country is at war, and the economy is in the crapper. People, this is your life we're talking about here. Pay attention!
Apparently there are a few who cannot understand the irony in paying $60 to hear "a rebel".
So now I'm "Rush" huh? Is this the part where I rummage around in my sack of ready-to-demonize left wing icons for an Al Franken label to slap on you? Ridiculous. Linking me to your favorite lightning rod hate is electrifying and flattering but I fail to make the leap.
As for your suggestion that my bangs osbscure my ability to see the truth, is there a hairstyle that would make you more inclined to view me as "trustworthy"? 'Cause I have other photos…Is there a grooming standard in the terms of use I overlooked?
When someone veers from the argument to try to discredit me based on my personal appearance, I can only assume they are out of intellectual ammo. PS, I have a big nose too. Maybe you can get some traction with that. On the other hand such a move could open you up to my Cyrano DeBergerac gambit. Risky. Luck! ;)
I can't help but notice some "dissent" advocates don't seem supportive of my dissent. Shouldn't you be cheering my courage to voice an unpopular minority view?
If you hire a clown for your kids party and find them wasting time railing about tax breaks for the rich instead of making balloon animals, are you Ok with that? Attempts to reposition me as "anti free speech" are heartwarming but off the mark. I don't want to deprive any clowns from airing their views, I simply do not want it done when I've hired them for something else. If I pay to see you juggle fire or what have you, I want you to skip the lecture, fire it up, and deliver. Similar inappropriate conduct includes-
Going out to the movies and being forced to watch a celebrity fund raising short before the main feature after which the ushers pass the hat. (Actually not a hat but empty popcorn tubs) It happened. I found it galling. I'm entitled to find it galling.
A friend asked if he could come over and have me sign a letter of recommendation for a new job he's pursuing in the insurance field. He then shows up with a salesman who concocted this Trojan horse ploy to get in my house and grind away with a pitch. (we're ex friends now) All of these scenarios hijack my attention under false pretenses. I resent it.
As many of you rightly pointed out, I have exceptions when it comes to some music. There are some songs of a political nature that I do find entertaining regardless of the views expressed. Granted, its somewhat inconsistent, but then irritation is an inexact science.
I don't turn to music for political opinion however. And I certainly don't buy tickets, drive 50 miles to an arena, pay to park and then expect to be barraged by the singer dude's litany of indictments against the federal government. Play the music that brought me there K?
No donna, I was not a Lennon fan. Sorry. I always considered Ringo the smart Beatle because he used his super stardom to get Barbara Bach. ;)
Music is like many things, hate milk chocolate, love dark chocloate for instance.
Thx Kimber!
EM, Norah is filed under "Rock/Pop" its a catch all. I used mild mannered Norah to point out the lack of edge in in anti Bush songs.
The "wahhbulance" We're back to the medical model again.. I don't like X therefore I am crazy or ill. Got it. Again, and I apologize for repeating myself for those who've been able to follow, there is a distinction between songs that contain political elements and a musician abducting the audience between songs to subject them to his tirades. Dig?
Muzak, elevators, the Carpenters, sheesh, it doesn't apply and unless you are incapable of digesting my clearly stated difference, you know very well what I mean.
I saw Rob Zombie and Ozzy a few months ago, they spent zero time lecturing me about waterboarding and spent every minute of the show rocking the house. Thats what I want. I gravitate towards artists like that. Do those guys hate Condoleeza Rice? I don't know, maybe but why would I care? Why should anything of that nature be part of the show?
Re: Blues, bluegrass, folk. agree. And at the time some of those artists faced real consequences for their views. What do modern artists risk? A dip in third quarter sales? Please.
I'm not a fan of protest music in general. Did I forget to mention that? Therefore, and I pray it sinks in this time, when I go see a group it is not going to be one that is known for political agitation. If you can't tell, I'm already agitated, I don't need to hire more of the saem. When the show I'm attending is turned into an unannounced political rally, its irksome.
Cat, every song is indeed a personal opinion. I don't go to Rock Against this or that cause festivals. I don't want to continously have my "conciousness raised" though. I go to news sources for news, politics and opinion of that sort, music for something entirely different. I'm getting the feeling I'm not entitled to have a preference.
Teresa, thats exactly what I mean.
Geritol. Cute. Back to the medical model of smearing your adversary by suggesting they're opposition to is based on age or infirmity. Ya got a one trick pony there, its coming up lame. Still,, though I'm nearly 50, I'd be happy to run a 10K or arm wrestle any time. If I lose I'll buy the Geritol.
Greg, now that you mention it, anti establishment stalwarts CSNY did a reunion gig a few years ago, and here's another inconsistency, I was going to go. Then I found out front section ticets were $300. Ha ha. Counter culture indeed. Sticking it to the man has gone to sticking it to the fan. THose guys ARE "the man."
Lyndon, you must not be getting out much. Times have changed. Elvis? I wouldn't be surprised if you have a bottle of Geritol around there yourself. ;)
Thx Tammy.
I am just a guy with an opinion and an internet connection. I value all your comments including those that are vigorously opposed to me. After all, where would any of us be without people around us to tell us we're full of crap? I think thats where Lennon went wrong.
ha ha J/K!
Stephen, "One exception though... Tom Waits," Granted. There's more than "one" exception I can't deny it.
BTW Tom's "Ol' 55" is one of the maybe four songs in the world that can wring a tear from me.
"Fly Flyyyyyyyyyyyyyy" Maybe thats why Bette Midler makes me want to climb a clocktower with a hunting rifle.
I thought Imagine was boring and indulgent. I liked the Watching the Wheels song he did and though I wasn't a big Beatles fan I can appreciate the talent they had as composer/arrangers. The White Album was the one I liked best.
I think its tragic JL got shot. I think its tragic when anyone going about their law abiding business gets murdered. I'd always rather my idealogical opponents were alive than dead. I want people breathing, loving, walking around even if I disagree with them.
Re:Pearl Jam. Thats just dumb. I want rock stars to be smarter but thats asking a lot. Ted Nugent shot a Saddam Hussein mannequin with a crossbow onstage. I thought that was stupid too. Ronstadt? Gifted singer but full of herself to the point of absurdity. Still, when fans rampage and act like barbarians because of something a performer says, thats just as ridiculous.
Regardless of anyone's position, don't think I haven't enjoyed this thread a great deal. Even if I'm going tooth and nail with you, when the smoke clears, I'd help anyone of you change your flat tire. (You too Lyndon!)
Moving your sofa bed, thats another story.
There's no easy way out
The day's moving just too fast for me
Need some time in the sunshine
Gotta slow it right down
The day's moving just too fast for me
I live my life for the stars that shine
People say it's just a waste of time
When they said I should feed my head
That to me was just a day in bed
I'll take my car and drive real far
To where they're not concerned about the way we are
Cos in my mind my dreams are real
Are you concerned about the way I feel
Tonight I'm a rock 'n' roll star
----Rock 'n' Roll star...
Politics is part of us and it is normal to view it in music..yet some musicians are overdoing it..it is like..dah..they did it..I can do it too..
In other words, music is colorful...and to be a rock n roll star...the lyrics above would varify it...
I thought of a fairly political rocker i've always enjoyed: Neil Young. But his music doesn't move me politically. I just like the songs. Though he has the voice of a wounded alley cat voice and his guitar solos are sloppy, somehow the blend has always been attractive to me. Lyrics like "Tin soldiers and Nixon's coming" have a kind of comic book humour to them for me. I'm just not the fist in the air go to a rally, march agaisnt something type. His album Harvest is an enduring classic.
When you want to argue against someone from a different angle than they present, you have no choice but to try to repostion them and make them say something other than what they in fact meant. I'm guilty of it too. Other times, your reflexive response to someone's words can cause you to put the emphasis where it isn't. I've done that too.
I'm not singling Lyndon out. Actually, he made me think harder and is responsible for some of my favorite lines here. I have a connection request in to him as a matter of fact. People should always closely interrogate me. Like they say, if you can't defend your position, you aren't entitled to hold it.
I still love everyone who commented. Even if it looked like I was trying to break a chair over your head, it was nothing personal. Writers in a literary forum once told me my work was average but my replies to acidic criticism where where I really stepped up to the plate. Unless I'm sufficiently taunted, I'm lazy. :)
I never advocated preventing anyone from engaging in diatribe, I'd just like to be advised that is going to be a portion of the paid programming so I can have the chance to opt out. I too am "rebellious". I'm "against the grain" by refusing to go with the flow as it were. It feels good to rebel!
How has Natalie suffered for her courage? Like I said, a dip in 3rd quarter sales? Did she have to hold off on that summer home remodel? As far as I can see, she's still in the custom designer gown bucks. If she fits your profile of courage Alan, I defend your right to applaud her. Do you mean she might have been assasinated like MLK or that she'd have to get a real job?
I was amused by the segment of Dixie Chick fans who disavowed them because of her words. If you like her music, who cares what she thinks? If I like an entertainer's music, their personal views aren't going to change that. I don't want to be lectured from the stage. Your personal views can be absolutely counter to mine and I can still appreciate what you do in another regard.
A Christian friend confronted me with "Jimmy Page is a satanist!" *sigh* if you like. I don't go to his church, I just listen to him play. Doesn't matter if he's an Amway salesman or transvestite. I like his sound.
Vedder's ridiculous onstage Bush hatred ritual was designed to cheerlead and titillate rabid haters. I thought it was childish and absurd. However, when Even Flow comes on the radio, I still turn it up.
As for me getting "a little out there" I admit, you are probably a better judge of that than I am. I readily admit "out there" is my default setting. ;)
let's start with the price of admission shall we? Then throw in the clearly labeled title for those who wanted nothing to do with this subject. Anyone who got past the title had no illusions what this would be about did they?
But you know what? As of this moment I am going to offer a "triple your money back" guarauntee on every article I post. I am the only contributer to do this. How can I make such an offer? I am so sure you will be satisfied with the content that the risk is minimal.
Offer is only good in the continental US. Nothing I've posted prior to this date is covered by the terms of this offer. Must be 18 to play. Employees and their family members are ineligible for refund. Author is aware that he is kind of an ass. :)
No, its not a bad thing. You launch a good defense. Got to hand it to you.