Christians
August 22, 2006 03:01 PM EDT
(Updated: October 12, 2006 01:10 PM EDT)
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I've read a lot of comments today that have made me question a little bit of people's view of what being a Christian entails. Many of those commets go to say how people consider themselves Christians but don't follow a church for what ever reason. I was under the impression that yes, Jesus came to offer a salvation but he also came to build a church. A church meaning people who together are seeking to follow Christ. The NT starts that church and lays out it's mission, structure and what not. Is it not true then, to not be apart of a church is to be outside of God's plan. Because after all if you are a Christian then your plan to for follow God's paln. Isn't it? I don't think God ever inteneded for a Christian to live the Christian life alone. Infact I would think it would be impossible to follow Christ alone. What do you think? I struggle with this same issue with my husband. I attend our church on a regular basis and he refuses to go.
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Good questioning, I just published my own questions again.
Sunday worship is the result of a tradition by the Jews of weekly worship and that was probably laid out in the old testament and Jesus's phrase at the Last Supper "Do this in Rememberance of Me." (Note he didn't specify Sunday, every day, etc.)
Further I believe that the current leadership of most of the Christian religions have lost their way. Much like the Pharisees (the religious leaders of their day) who were constantly ostacized by Christ. Jesus came to save the world, to teach us that there was one true god and to follow the commandments. We are all children of god and those modern day pharisees who preach that their church is the only church for salvation are going against Christs teachings. The spirit of Christ is meant to be all encompassing not separist.
I could mention many other areas that I believe modern religions have lost the Faith and gotten caught up in ritual (such as Mass). I cannot comment on your husbands faith but living as a christian is much more important that practicing as one.
just curious, as a muslim i see the present day islamic clergy as trying to use islam to control people. when i moved to utah i saw the same attitude in the morman church leadership aswell. when i was travelling in africa i saw the catholic church still practising control over a lot of their communities. how much do you think that organised religion is there to control your life? does your church enjoy any control over you? do you think to organise people to pray in a certain way is a way to influence them and then use them for their own power? why dont you agree that maybe your husband's way to handle religion might be the right way? why do you beleive that it is important for your children to be a part of an organised religion? is not possible for them to learn about christ from you? i admire your beleifs but i always remain curious as to how people think.
Many of those commets (comments)
lays out it's mission (its no apostrophe)
to not be apart of a church is to be outside (a part two words
plan to for follow God's paln (plan)
Infact
Christ said;
"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them."
So clearly a formal church is not required to be Christian. I believe it is the study of his word that makes one a part of His church.
"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them."
This sure doesn't mean following Christ on you own. Does it?
I wrote this to not really support a formal church but to argue that being a Christian takes more then just going through life however you want and when asked if your a Christian saying yes. That's what my husband would like to do. He doesn't read the Bible, he doesn't attend church, he does nothing in God's name but if asked would say, yes he's a Christian.
I would say that one must at least occasionally speak to another of Christ, or one would not be following his teaching. If you and your husband do this, perhaps that is sufficient, but I dare not judge such a thing.
I meant only to excuse myself from that role.
Thank you for your comments. I always enjoy reading them and discussing issues with you.
Likewise.
So clearly a formal church is not required to be Christian. I believe it is the study of his word that makes one a part of His church.
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In the Greek language the word eklesios is the word for church --- all it means is a collection of people, not a formal institution. The churches described in the Bible were gatherings of people, not the type of corporate conglomerates of the type that would please Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson. Instead of engaging in self satisfied snobbery like those clowns do, they spent much of their time doing good works for the poor and needy. Study of the Bible, songs of praise, and good fellowship were all a part of those gatherings. All it takes is for two people or more to constitute such gatherings as you correctly pointed out.
By their works ye shall know them. Those who do good works is what constitutes the true church. The Bible gives many examples of what those works are to be.
Ephe 2:21 is to long to type out but it I believe talks about joining together...describing a building under construction meaning church.
Ephe2:22 speaks of the dwelling. This is the community in which the Holy Spirit dwells.
Sandy offered some excellent suggestions regarding your paragraph, sentence structure, spelling, etc., and you pretty much blew her off. Rushmore offered some interesting insight regarding the belief in Christ versus belief in Church issue, all of which I'm pretty sure you don't agree with, so you pretty much ended that, too. John K, on the other hand, believes what you believe, so you continue to converse.
Your behavior is undertandable, perhaps, and certainly keeps you comfortable, but it makes me wonder: are you truly interested in hearing other opinions and learning something or do you really just want someone to agree with you and to support and affirm your own beliefs? Two very different things.
I understand what you say about Sandy, and I think it's important you understand her. Sandy is an excellent writer and offers good suggestions (not just to you, but to many of us). You will agree, I think, that Gather is a site for writers, so comments sometimes focus on style, grammar, structure, etc., rather than content. Perhaps you don't agree with this, which is your right, of course. I will point out, though, that you quickly corrected the punctuation error that John A brought to your attention, and you did it with professionalism and with the understanding, it seems, that you felt John A was offering important, constructive criticism. I can assure you Sandy was doing the same.
On another note...while your new icon is absolutely lovely, I did so enjoy that little blondie!
Where did he do that?
Mt 16:18, 18:17
Ac 20:28
1Co 5:12, 14:4, 12, 26 and 15:0
Gal 1:13
Eph 5:23
Col 1:18, 24
all found in the NT
flying spaghetti monster...
;)
And all these years I was wasting my time worshiping the flying lasagna monster.
I'ma burn!
Let me clarifly for you, I no longer attend the Catholic church, I would have to agree with you (scary thought) about the Bishops not being to happy to hear that. Neither was my grandmother! And thank you for your clarification on the whole flying spaghetti monster thing.
i consider myself very spirtual in my own way but i got that through my own. why do a lot of people hang on to a community or organised faith to seek spirtuality?
but what would you have done if you did not have a community around you that was religious. do you use your community to give you strength in your faith and why could you not do the same on your own?
natalie i am not at all through these inquiries trying to quetion your beleif system as i have no right to. just trying to learn what different people think.
*high five"
You rock yourself! Thanks to The Crossing (my church). I've learned that I'm a sinner in constant need of Gods grace and love. I am a work in progress and I can only hope to show other's it's not about being perfect or holier then all get out, but it's about being real. Admitting your faults and knowing that you can work through them with the guidance of God. Being a Christian to me means claming God as my creator, admitting that Jesus Christ died on the cross for my sins and trying the best I can to live a life of forgiveness, love, and respect to others while holding the word of God as truth. Many days I do and will continue to fall short of my goals. But I know that God knows my heart.
Go to your pastor who will study this with you; or to another christian that you respect.
In Hebrews the writer tells us to 'not neglect the gathering of the saints'. There is no real question that from the first gatherings to present time, through centuries, God does call His people to be together, excercizing the sacraments (baptism and communion). Also look at what John has to say about the 'bride'. that isn't one person but the body of believers. And Paul through all his epistles make it clear that believers should be together, physically, regularly using their gifts to encourage each other and glorify God.
If you can get ahold of the book, The Church at The End of the 20th Century by Francis Schaeffer, it would be helpful.
It must be difficult to celebrate without your husband, but continue to do so. You are right in this and your children need it also.
I have friends who are in similar marriages and friends who don't go at all but i do believe that they have christian faith. Though our salvation isn't based on our attendance i believe His abundant blessing are given as we unit together in His name.
Pray for your husband and do not allow yourselve to grow bitter over his lack of attendance. Believe that God is in charge of Him (which He is) and that God's love would flesh out his immaturity. No need for bitterness or condemnation, I'm sure, like me, you have your own immature spots.
Blessings, Cathryn
I admire that you really seem to questiong things and struggle wit your beliefs. You really seem to make your own decisions and live the path that makes the most sense to you.
I find it very unchristian to support killing of other innocent people - yet those who profess the loudest their christianity amongst my friends are supporting it.
Those friends of mine who follow a 'what would jesus do' mindset are my closest friends, because they don't see religion as an excuse to be a bastard to other people not in the christian club.
Same thing with pretty much every other 'group' that society divides itself into, whether sexual, political or religious. I DISLIKE sides.
While much has been offered, I would like to say that I'm sorry that your husband doesn't join you in the leadership role for the Spiritual good of your children. Kids do watch what "Dad" is doing, and his leadership would be helpful. It also does no good to have division in this area. I believe that his leadership and participation at home would do wonders, and would put Church attendance, and it's import, secondary, as it most probably should be. You mean he doesn't dig the Scriptures?? How could he not!?
Thank you for your support. It's not that he doesn't "dig" the Scriptures, it's just that he'd rather be doing somthing else....like sleeping in. ;)
Jesus was speaking of his body, not the temple that man built. And the bible goes so far as to tell you so.
So what Jesus was telling us is the our body is the temple for it is what houses our soul.
Jesus never intended to create a church he just wanted to teach and people followed him of their own free will.
The Church system is a farse. If you wish to learn and follow God word and Jesus's teachings do so but do not rely on some one elses interpritation. Read the words in the bible and understand them for yourself. That is what I do, I read the bible on my own. If there is something I do not understand in it I will go to several diferent people and ask their opinion. Their nature of belief will help me focus on my own readings and find meaning in it of my own. When all is said and done those people I asked may have said something compleatly different than what I have Come to read and understand. And sometimes I come to agree. The statement I am trying to make a relationship with God and Jesus is ones personal business. If you chose to share it fine. Every one has their way of understanding. It not wrong just because someone does it a little differently.
I am not sure if i made my point well or not... I am not a person that does well at putting my thougts and feeling into words.
I noticed you quoted RW Emerson once. I love Emerson and made a group for other Emerson lovers. Would you be interested?
I'm must admit I think this article turned out great for the simple fact that we got many different comments and none were overly rude! Something that doesn't seem to happen here to often.
Lisa I never really thought I needed a church either. Infact I went years and years without going to one. Then my sister (who also didn't attend) decided she wanted to check out this new church intown. So having nothing else better to do I went with her. Well, it's been 2 years now and I can't image not having it in my life. I feel like I have a better connection with God. A better understanding, and in a way I feel like I view the world in a totally different way. I know it's not for everyone, but I can't image my life with out God or this new community I've found.