Taking the plunge into self-publishing

No advice. I am in the same situation as you are. From my Internet research I would distinguish three cases:

• Vanity Publishers. You pay them to publish you. The issue here seems to be that not only will you never earn money, but also your book will never get anywhere.
  
• Self-publishing companies (like LuLu). I am torn about those. Maybe that's a last option if all else fails.
  
• "True" self publishing. (There is an article in the Writer's and Artist's Handbook by G.P. Taylor: "Notes from a successful self-publisher") Seems to be a lot of work and entrepreneurship involved and all in all not much more likely to be successful than finding a publisher (or agent) in the first place.

I am curious in the comments by others.

I'm not sure about self-publishing but it soudns great. The theme of yoru novel is definitely interesting and caught my eye. keep up the great work and I hope publishing and eveyrthing works out well for you. I look forward to reading your book when it's on the shelves!

Gretchen, your article sparked the idea to set up a new group: Writing a Book Proposal.

Sounds interesting. I really don't know what advise to give you though. I wrote a book on Depression and self published in 1989, but I never got many of my books out. I would not do it again that way! Good luck though, no matter what you decide to do!!

My son published his first book as Print on Demand at cafepress.com. I don't know how many he sold, but I bought two. They didn't charge him anything unless the book was ordered and he was able to set his own profit margin. Won't cost you anything to check out the web site.

I published my book "the Courtship of Julian & Frieda" at Xlibris. I tried to publish it for years, even got myself an agent and still no bites. the subject matetr was not considered sufficiently commercial. Hence, XLibris.
The good points: It was cost effective, they did a nice job, and it's listed on Amazon, Barnes and Noble.com and all the usual web outlets.
The bad points: You have to do your own editing(unless you pay extra), your own publicity (unless you pay extra) and the author gets a very small cut of the profits on your on line sales.
Publicity: I sent out my own press releases and sent the book out for reviews. Did a tv show and some radio and newspaper interviews...all pretty local. I did run out of steam as I've been busy with my full time job, etc.
I do get invited regularly to address reading groups and historical societies. ( It's gratifying to know someone out there likes my book-in case you're curious a chapter is published on gather) Good luck, Gretchen and don't give up! If it's what you want go out there and do it!

I'll be watching this thread, as I've many similar questions.

I have heard Xlibris is a decent avenue, and Krista had some luck with it. Too bad she "ran out of steam"...but it is hard to keep a job AND self promote.

Self Publishing seems to be the way to go.

I've known a person (or ten) that went the Vanity Press route with minimul results.

I want to do as much of the legwork myself as I can. I have done self publishing on a magazine scale. I'm thinking an initial print-run of 100 copies, because that is where the bulk discounts start. I'd have to obtain an ISBN number to be able to sell on Amazon or other online venues.

As for self-marketing, that'll be a little tough since jumping up and down shouting "Look at me! Look at me!" has never been my strong suit. But everyone has to do it, whether they are published by Random House, Joe Shmo Press, a Vanity Press, or the Xerox machine.

thanks for the response, everyone

Thanks for writing on this topic. We all want to know.

I've heard relatively positive things about Lulu -- a lot of mixed feelings about PublishAmerica. This will certainly not be an overnight thing. I need to start by building a personal website and maintaining it.

There is so much more that the average person can do with their own printing and marketing that was difficult even ten years ago.

I was at one of our local bookstores today leaving some of my own cookbooks with the owner and happened to meet a man who had published a book through 1st World Publishing. It is printed on demand. What made it atractive to the store owner was that the author (Mike Taylor) told her that if any books didn't sell in 6 months, HE would buy them back. He says he has had no trouble placing books anywhere and has had to buy very few back.

http://www.1stworldpublishing.com/store/product.aspx?ukey=e1e3b0ce-3108-42fa-a822-4a30b43886ff

His novel is title "A Thousand Sleeps" by Mike Taylor and he lives in Hawaii, although the story takes place in Montana where he lived previously.

That might be one way to do it.

thanks Sonia -- Interesting marketing advice, make the the transaction a win-win situation for the bookstore.

Gretchen, thanks for writing this. Started writing my first book about a month ago, and have begun exploring options.

Finding an agent and publisher is tough, but it's better than trying to sell books out of your trunk. And seriously, if no agent or publisher will touch it, then it's probably not very good.

There isn't any monetary reward in the way I self published. I wrote and assembled very old historical stories, along with some original true historical stories while I was a docent a museum. I wrote it on their computer, printed and copied it on the their equipment, bound it by using a large stapler, put copies on the shelf in the gift shop and sold them. We sold about 25 copies to visitors at the museum, and the proceeds went to the historical organization that ran the museum.

Gretchen - check out Trafford at trafford.com (on demand publishing). I've been searching also and this one looks interesting.

Gretchen,
I've been using Lulu.com for several years. If you are tech-savvy and don't require hand-holding, it is the way to go. There are no upfront costs to use Lulu, and they now have a rather affordable distro service that will help you get an ISBN in your name and get your book listed at Amazon and most other online vendors.

I did write a review of the Lulu service for epinions. You may find it helpful.
http://www.epinions.com/content_330154544772

I can answer specific questions about Lulu if you want to contact me.

Gretchen,
I have done POD through great reading Books, they did a good job, but the upfront costs were astronomical. I am also going through Lulu, there is no financial com mitment, you control the process(but I suggest you work with an independent editor) There is also a support system that will almost any question you have.

I also help independent writers promote their websites

www.squidoo.com/gwilson

www.lulu.com/nightstalker

Yes, I definitely would work with an independent editor. When I went to the Gregory Maguire reading for "Son of a Witch" ( the sequel to "Wicked") he confessed to having hired an independent editor even though he was working with a big publisher.

I am very glad I wrote this -- there have been a lot of helpful suggestions. I also looked a bit on booksjustbooks, and that also looks like a possible option.

I started to put together a personal website that will give samplings of my work and also advocate self-publishing in general. I disagree that self-publishing means that the book is not good, and therefore couldn't attract a "real" publishinghouse. We all know there are plenty of books out there from real publishinghouses that are poorly written and edited.

Linda G: "Gretchen - check out Trafford at trafford.com (on demand publishing). I've been searching also and this one looks interesting."

I have browsed their bookstore and ordered a few books - I wanted to check out the quality of their business and their books. The experience was pretty unpleasant. They charged my credit card three times, apologized, didn't refund, apologized again, and I haven't received anything yet.
Appears not very professional to me.

Report them to the BBB. You'll get your money back then.

I'm self-publishing, though it's a children's book not a novel. I also wrote an ebook about self-publishing children's books (a niche topic). From my ebook though I'm cutting and pasting my signs of whether you should self-publish or not.

Signs that you and your book are ready to self-publish
- You're a member of SCBWI and/or have read several books or newsletters about children's writing or publishing.
- You have submitted the manuscript to publishers and received a favorable personal comment from at least one.
- You have participated in a writing critique group and incorporated constructive criticism from that group into your writing.

Signs that you and your book are NOT ready for publication
- You had never heard of SCBWI (Society of Children's Book Writers and Illustrators) until now.
- When you write the book description that you would like to appear on Amazon.com, it includes phrases like "enchanting children's book," "characters are lovable and warm," "poignant and humorous." These phrases break the rule "Show, Don't Tell." Readers want to be captivated by your story, not told that they will love it.
- You are unfamiliar with the rule "Show, Don't Tell."

The SCBWI (Society of Children's Book Writers and Illustrators) obviously is specific to children's books, but I think you get the sentiment.

Finally my own statement from the ebook's conclusion:
"Personally, I've weighed the trade publication versus self-publishing decision for several years. Because there are many advantages to being trade published, I submitted dozens of copies of manuscripts to publishers for ten plus years. I received several favorable personal rejection letters. Eventually I concluded trade publication of one of my manuscripts does not seem to be on the horizon. Although I'm married and a parent, the author in me feels much like a woman in her late 30's, who is not in a committed relationship with a man but desperately wants to be a mother. Sure single-parenthood is harder. Sure self-publishing is more difficult than finding a lovely acceptance letter in your mailbox. But I feel it is time to seize control of my own destiny. I want to touch the lives of young readers before my creative womb becomes barren. While no biological clock ticks down the end of my ability to create new stories, I sense the end of my tolerance for receiving rejections or no response to my submissions. Soon I'll just stop writing unless I change my approach."

Good luck whatever you decide!

I've checked on LuLu and some others, but have not felt comfortable enough about following through with any yet. If I come across somehthing that sounds like promising, I'll be sure to come back and share with everyone.
There are so many of us all searching for a way to become published, paid, known authors......another way we're "connected".

Good luck, sounds like a great idea to try

thanks for the warning, Hajo. When I wrote on Fanstory a couple years ago one of the members published a book he had posted on the site with Trafford. He seemed to have some success with it. I am leaning pretty heavily toward Lulu, since my initial print run will not be very high. I also like the e-book option idea, which is produced for free and sold for whatever you set the price at. I would only offer the e-book temporarily though, may be a good way to get the book reviewed.

Anne, you hit the nail on the head with your e-book statement. thanks for all the advice

Gretchen - great thread and lots of great information above.

I was recently at a couple of conferences on the business side of publishing. It was fascinating to see where agents and publishers see the business going in the next few years. Of course, the internet is crucial, but the statistic that there are only 300 people in the USA who can legitimately make their income from writing was a little daunting. I do not write that as a discouragement, but rather as motivation to be as creative as possible in marketing works.

I think using POD is great if you use one (like Lulu) where your only cost is the purchase of one book. I did this on my first release and it was not only helpful in distribution(Barnes and Noble and Amazon picked it up - Books a Million didn't), but I learned a lot about how an actual book gets put together. Even if I ever decided to get an agent or signed on with a big house these are helpful things to know.

The other advantage of using a POD like Lulu is that it allows for a storefront to advertise while you are working up a marketing strategy. I could not afford a website right out the gate, and at least this allowed me a stable place to refer people interested in my works.

I specifically asked some of the agents at this conference if they viewed it negatively if someone did POD while pursuing the big houses/agents etc. They gave a resounding NO. They all seemed to expect and respect it. Ultimately, the work will stand on its own, but I guess this gives an agent a good opportunity to see what the author is willing to do to promote their own work. As someone mentioned earlier, even with an agent and a big house behind you, a lot of the leg work will be up to you.

The one thing that really surprised me is how many people pay for the reviews on their books. I didn't even know this was a possibility (Duh!) Because there are so many people doing this, reviews do not hold the clout they once did. This issue was well debated and I understand how well respected reviewers have to charge to prevent a deluge of inquiries, however, a lot of agents/publishers said that is why the value of professional reviews has been reduced. Funny, it makes me look at the reviews on the back of a book a lot closer now!

As for me, I like to dabble, so I made a publishing company (in part because some of my writings have products that work well with them - think Hallmark type gift sets). But in addition, I am trying to learn as much as I can to help really talented people get their work out there. I kind of enjoy all aspects of the business I guess.

The biggest obstacle, as in anything, is getting appropriate pay for your work. I was offered a contract last year, but you have to really think about the offer. I know $10,000 may seem like a lot of money (and I am told that is an exceptional offer for a first time author), but will it pay your bills for a year while you are working on new deadlines, tour dates, speaking engagements, meetings etc? If you have another job, will that be enough to hold you over until the book is released? And for me, the final question is am I lucky enough and is my book good enough to meet the economic demands of the publishing house? I really had to struggle with those kind of questions and ultimately decided I was not ready to accept a contract.

I am at the level where I certainly don't have all the answers, but have come a long way in knowing who to ask! Gosh, I am gabby guppy on this subject today!

Best of luck. I think your book sounds fascinating and I am a native Minnesotan so your pulling at me already! Please keep us posted!

Thanks Janelle-- the title of the book is "No Sensible People", and the first couple chapters of the prequel "Almighty Whispers in My Soul", still in progress, are among the first posts to Gather ( I decided not to post anymore chapters lest it impair future publishing chances) a link to the first chapter is here. http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474976873881

Thanks for the link up. It kept me captivated and you have talent. Best of luck and make sure I know when I can get the rest.

The co-op idea is a good one. ISBNs are sold in batches of ten. But you would still have to deal with printing and barcoding, probably in larger batches-- which is fine for some. My company classifieds are actually free, so I will start there. I know there are artists there, community or other college is an idea too.

thanks

I run an indie publishing group on writing.com with a branch of it on myspace and have done a lot of research into the field. I've also published 2 novels and a children's book on my own; the novels through Infinity and the children's book through Lulu. Unlike many who "self" publish, I'm not trying for a traditional contract and I didn't decide to do it independently because of traditional rejections. I studied the traditional process and the indie process and decided I'd rather not be under contract so I can retain control.

Whichever way you go, the marketing is on you. If you don't promote, you don't sell, and it has nothing to do with "how" it's published, but how well you promote. It is harder to get into bookstores when you indie publish, but it can be done, and some POD companies make that easier than others.

I guess I should finish my publishing methods article and post it!

Amelie what a marvelous idea! ALso co-edition - a book with various authors (us) in one. I have the ISBN, I make my own covers and illustrations and I made my first CD (visual) books. I have also a printer for every four pages at once - the last technical problem is a professional biding system. After all that I can bring around some prints plus CDs to bigger publishers, magazin editors and bookshops. CDs are unusual and more difficult while the print version cannot look yet as a good book - (because of the binding problem). With thsi self publishing, having make your own publishing company -ISBN, at least you ahve it out there ...

I like Lulu.com

L.K. -- the independent control is as much of a reason as rejection for why I'm doing this.

I haven't read all of the comments, and maybe some one might have already mentioned the following site, but I just got an e-mail from them

http://i-proclaim.com/

good information ty

As a follow-up on Trafford: I received the ordered books meanwhile, and I can't complain about binding, printing quality etc. of the POD copies.
It is just all in the responsibility of the author.

So I guess this is an option after all.