One of the most poignant commentaries I have seen on this site most recently was one by a new connection of mine, Michael S., on this post. He recently left this barrage of quotes by Joe Biden to make a point that was largely ignored. Of course, when the facts are slapping one in the face, it's difficult to do anything but to try to dodge them by pretending they don't exist if you support this candidate. Before Michael posted these, I had only remembered two of them from before, and not in their entirety. I remembered the racist quote, and I had also read the Brookings Institute quote before. To be honest, those two would have been enough for me to substantiate my opinion of Biden. I didn't, however, realize that Joe Biden had made so many statements that are contradictory to what he would have you believe is his position.
My questions to his supporters are these:
- How is it that you can ignore these statements and support this candidate?
- If you don't ignore them, how exactly is it that you're able to process this information and backburner the truth so easily? Is it just that you don't care about the truth or that you're so used to diminishing its worth that dismissing it is just natural for you?
- Do you not understand the statements?
- Do you condone them simply because he's a Democrat and you are too, so it makes no difference what he says?
- Are there other reasons you can dismiss the statements and support this candidate?
By the way, if you haven't met Michael, and you enjoy quality of expression, depth and perception, and sometimes subtle, but always poignant commentary, I urge you to take a look at what he writes.
Michael, I hope you don't mind that I have reprinted the quotes that you compiled, but they were far too important to be obscured in commentary drivel. I wanted to feature them here to give them some of the attention they deserve.
"We can call it quits and withdraw from Iraq. I think that would be a gigantic mistake. Or we can set a deadline for pulling out, which I fear will only encourage our enemies to wait us out - equally a mistake."
- Joe Biden to The Brookings Institution, 2005
"I've been calling for more troops for over two years, along with John McCain and others subsequent to my saying that."
- Joe Biden, Meet the Press, November 27, 2005
"My impression is [Obama] thinks that if we leave, somehow the Iraqis are going to have an epiphany" of peaceful coexistence among warring sects. "I've seen zero evidence of that."
- Joe Biden on Barack Hussein Obama's Iraq plan, September 13, 2007
"The only guy on the other side who's qualified is John McCain."
- Joe Biden, MSNBC, October 30, 2007
"The threat [Saddam Hussein] presented was that, if Saddam was left unfettered, which I said during that period, for the next five years with sanctions lifted and billions of dollars into his coffers, then I believed he had the ability to acquire a tactical nuclear weapon - not by building it, by purchasing it. I also believed he was a threat in that he was - every single solitary U.N. resolution which he agreed to abide by, which was the equivalent of a peace agreement at the United Nations, after he got out of - after we kicked him out of Kuwait, he was violating. Now, the rules of the road either mean something or they don't. The international community says 'We're going to enforce the sanctions we placed' or not. And what was the international community doing? The international community was weakening. They were pulling away."
- Joe Biden, Meet the Press, April 29, 2007
"Well, the point is, it turned out they didn't, but everyone in the world thought he had them. The weapons inspectors said he had them. He catalogued - they catalogued them. This was not some, some Cheney, you know, pipe dream. This was, in fact, catalogued."
- Joe Biden on Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction, Meet the Press, 2007
"The more people learn about them [Obama and Hillary] and how they handle the pressure, the more their support will evaporate."
- Joe Biden in an interview with The Huffington Post
"I mean, you got the FIRST mainstream AFRICAN-AMERICAN WHO IS ARTICULATE and BRIGHT and CLEAN and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a storybook, man."
- Joe Biden, The New York Observer
"a one-term, a guy who has served for four years in the Senate," and "I don't recall hearing a word from Barack about a plan or a tactic."
- Joe Biden, "from the same Observer interview." (Michael S.)
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Comments: 95
Was he campaigning against Obama at the time, or does he just not like the guy. If he doesn't like Obama then he's stuck with him now anyway - he said YES to being VP so now they have to work it out. But then I don't think Obama cares to be around "YES" men ... Unlike the other side that thinks they already know how history turns out (since for Evangelicals it's God VS EVIL).
Obama likes debate - it's just his style. And I guess he'll get it.
Wait one darn minute Peter! Biden was clearly making a pitch for Evangelicals at a campaign stop yesterday, no joke, this is what he said to an elected official:
"Chuck, stand up let them see you"!
Uh, Chuck couldn't stand up, you see Chuck is in a wheel chair!
Now you can take that as another mindless Biden gaffe, OR simply say that Joe was trying to HEAL the man. What do you think?
What an irritating "thank-you for posting" comment with that sparky happy face! All "thank you for posting" comments are irritating, but the ones with the sparky jumping unicorns and all that shit...rainbows...glitter.....grrrr
All political candidates do two things...they lie and they contradict themselves. Joe the Shark is no different. Neither is Obama, neither is Sarah Barracuda.
But that doesn't change that particular fact that Republicans and Democrats view ideas about Church and State, and Dominion (and Imperialism) differently.
(remember, I don't support McCain either)
On Lori dear, he didn't even sing it well! But I do hear that phrase will be reprised on I-Tunes with Jeremiah Wright singing God Damn America in the background.
I don't see Palin as the fellow "maverick" that McCain says she is. If you look closer at much of what has occurred in her governership, it becomes obvious that she is not all that she is being represented by the campaign.
In my opinion, McCain saw in her someone who could rouse the Republicans out of the funk they have been in. Nobody has been very excited about McCain's candidacy. He has never had the charisma of Obama. He needed someone with the "rock star" appeal of Obama. (the words "rock star" are McCain's words he has used in describing Obama). With Palin he got some emotional energy going in his campaign. He found someone who is pretty, intelligent, young, and unexpected. Not only that, but she is representative of working mothers, mothers with special needs children, mothers of children serving in the war, and mothers of children with unwed pregnancies. What better way to get certain points across regarding the war and regarding pro-life issues?
I believe Palin is a nice woman. I believe she is intelligent and motivated. But in my mind it takes more than that to be President. And anyone running for Vice President needs to be ready to be President...especially when the President is the age that McCain is.
Obama's experience has been compared to Palins. The thing is, Obama has been preparing for the Presidency for years. He was being spoken of as a potential candidate after his speech at the last Democratic convention 4 years ago. He has been preparing for this. Palin has not. Despite her governorship of almost 2 years, she has not been preparing for the Vice-Presidency...much less the Presidency. What if, God forbid...McCain wins and then something happens to him in the first week of his Presidency. Does anyone really believe that Sarah Palin has the ability to take over as President of the United States?
I do believe Biden has that ability. He has experience in the areas Palin has no experience in. He has been in Washington for years and knows the ins and outs.
The comments he made above are a bit troubling. But I would imagine that comments have been made by most parties running that would be considered troubling at one time or another. I trust Obama and believe that he chose the person he believed he could work well with if he is chosen President of the United States.
I used to be a Republican. I am now a Democrat. Despite that, I have never just voted along party lines. I have always voted for who I thought was the most qualified. Nobody is perfect, and in voting for the Democratic ticket, I am not saying I support everything either candidate has ever said or done. I don't.
What I'm saying is that the policies they are putting forth are more in keeping with what I believe. Some things I just cannot abide by in the Republican party. I believe a woman should have a choice...especially in cases of incest or rape. I also beieve that community organizers are not people that should be made fun of in any way...and anyone who does make fun of them has obviously never needed to be helped at such a level. As a writer, I do not believe any book should be banned from our public libraries...and Palin has a history in Alaska of trying to do just that. I believe in affordable health care for everyone. People in America are dying simply because they cannot afford healthcare. The only time I go to the Dr. is when I am so sick I can't function. Thank God, that has been years. The scary thing is ... it has been years since I have been to a Dr. When insurance takes half of a person's paycheck, it just doesn't work.
Anyway...sorry I got off on a rant...lol. But hopefully I explained part of how I am feeling....:)
Want me to paste the comments by McCain praising GWB?
Or all Sarah's god comments?
I was for Hillary and she went after Obama almost like a pitbull with lipstick AND she agreed with John McCain and Bush on things (even Iraq things) so you would have some great quotes from her now, too. You would be able to make me cringe, there, too.
Who knows HOW racist Biden is. Obama seems like he can deal with it, and is now stuck with him.
Biden ran against Obama....do you not think if Romney would have been the VP pick that his whole past and every nasty thing he said about McCain on the campaign trail would have been posted here?
You want to ignore the negatives about Sarah Palin and excuse them as the media "attacking" her.
But when it comes to this you are ready to put Obama and Biden up against a wall and shoot them.
You lack the reasoning in this case of any kind of objectivity.
I guess that Biden thinks that Obama is "the FIRST mainstream AFRICAN-AMERICAN WHO IS ARTICULATE and BRIGHT and CLEAN and a nice-looking guy," was just a dumb statement that doesn't really mean anything at all.
So an evangelical minister will Lay Hands on McCain prior to the state of the union address and then Palin will come in and Speak in Tongues and then McCain will give the state of the Union Address?
Boy you are a good spindoctor.
CERTAINLY! Positive comments are always welcome!
Lori- "Or all Sarah's god comments?"
Absolutely! ANY of Sarahs' great comments are ALWAYS welcome!
Because if we dont do what she says she will have us fired.
I see a spike in unemployment claims under McCain/Palin.
I do think liberals TRY to be more PC about all that (as Conservatives loudly mock PC).
I think PC is basically just having decent manners - and not being racist and sexist is a good part of manners.
CERTAINLY! Positive comments are always welcome!
Mark-John K., Sep 10, 2008, 10:05am EDT
Funny how I hear McCain is the Maverick and wants to end corruption meaning corruption by GWB but his comments in favor of GWB are praised.
The hypocracy of the Republicans amazes me.
The "subtlety" is delicious...
I know you don't support either party so I can understand your answer.
I pick the one that best suits me.
Is Obama perfect? Hell no. Neither are the rest of them.
At least I see it.
People that support Palin are worse than the Obama supporters they dont see ANYTHING.
I have had 2 people disconnect from me because I refuse to support Palin.
And if you go through my comments last night...One of them I copied and pasted articles showing the potential corruption of palin and she justified it by saying things like FOX news said Palin's possible missappropriation of state fund...that Fox News said it wasnt illegal. So I asked her since when does a new channel get to decide what is legal or not. her answer was to disconnect from me and make all of her articles Friends Only Comments...yep thats see both sides of the issue all right.
Mark-John K., Sep 10, 2008, 10:12am EDT
Uh Duh Mark.
I see corruption all over the Bush administration that is the biggest reason I am an Obama supporter. I took a close look at Both the white house and John McCains websites and their policies are almost identical.
So we have the worst President of my lifetime and his potential predocessor is a Maverick/trailblazer and wants to end the corruption of the Bush regime using the same corrupt policies that Bush did...Tell me what is wrong with that picture?
Anyway I have got to go take my littel guy to the doctor I will be back later Sue.
BTW i think we should change from Chunky Monkey to cherry Garcia...I will pick some up on my way home.
Lori F., Sep 10, 2008, 10:18am EDT
As far as the ice cream goes, Lori, I hate Cherry Garcia, so you can have it all. As a matter of fact, I'm not a huge fan of ice cream, in general, so it has to be really good for me to even consider it. Once it's in the 70s or below, I won't even eat the kinds I like. It's all yours now. Enjoy!
We'll see how much it matters I guess in coming weeks.
Though I didn't deserve the most Honourable place at the Table, I am humbled, and enjoyed it!
Meeting go well?
The fact that he admits that WMDs were catalogued yet the man he's running with opposed the war despite this supposed knowledge, just proves that he has no substance, no principles, no backbone. How can people expect that there will not be corruption in their administration when deceit and contradiction have already set the perfect stage for it? How can you vote for either party knowing these things?
So you see it really doesn't matter who is on the democrat ticket. It doesn't matter if he is inexperienced and has a ticking goof bomb as his vice president. He isn't George Bush, and THAT is all that matters.
No it doesn't. Not at all. You paint it so simple - and it's not. This isn't a Superman comic strip. If corruption takes over Obama's White House it won't be because people are racist or have varying and changing views on Iraq.
"How can you vote for either party"
We only have two parties. We don't have a run off system. I'm not throwing away my vote. I'll vote realistically - and expect the worse, anyway - that's life.
I kind of look at a political campaign as the "romancing phase" of politics....much like when you first fall in love with someone. They tell us what we want to hear....accentuate the positives and downplay the negatives. Then once we are smitten...the real truth comes out...and by that time they hope we are smitten enough to hang around anyway.
Obama had his romancing phase awhile back. McCain is currently in his romancing phase (thanks to Sarah Palin). The thing is...it isn't Sarah Palin who is running against Obama. It is John Mccain. Since the convention, that seems to have gotten lost somewhere.
Whatever happens, it is going to be an interesting couple of months until the election. Good discussion, Sue!
No Peter, politics today isn't that noble.
"The thing is...it isn't Sarah Palin who is running against Obama. It is John Mccain." --End
And just who do you suppose the perpetrators of this change in focus are?
Sorry to hear about your "love-life." Goodness...so cynical! (;)
Thanks for your explanation, Cheryl.
"This isn't a Superman comic strip."
"No Peter, politics today isn't that noble."
Sad, but factual. That is why I also believe in a vote of NO CONFIDENCE.
It beats the "lesser of two fools..."
The left isn't "blinded". The left has reason to want change.
I fear the election of McCain would simply make these people sink deeper into their psychosis. Perhaps it may be better for them to experience the realty of democrat leadership in this country. As a resident of a state that is hopelessly democratic, I can tell you the pain of living under "hypocritical rule," maybe for the good of these poor souls they need to experience a similar catharsis.
I crabbed about Mr. Clinton enough in his day and I sure as heck will Bush, too !!!
Sometimes things are not "all right" and we need to think about where our country is headed - seriously.
Sometimes I won't shut up and sit down, even when an accusation of having a "psychos" or a "paranoia" might be flung at me for it, or any other belittling comment.
That's for sure, Peter!
So, it isn't a question of telling you to "shut up and sit down." Please speak to the facts, tell me how Obama will provide health care reform, energy reform, education reform, social security reform, etc. All on the backs of one social class? No, it cannot be done.
I would much rather be accused of entertaining a conspiracy theory than be accused of putting my head in the sand."
And this is the crux of the controversy. When does honest inquiry become a malicious attack? I think both sides of this...well all sides really..are guilty of making empty accusations AND of asking honest hard hitting questions. It is the how "dare you even ask" reaction that deflects the honest inquiry....dilutes the subject and misdirects the topic. It becomes the same argument that two children have on the playground. "Oh yeah?... yeah!" ...and nothing gets solved..no inquiries get answered AND the mood is set for more defiance and confrontation by both sides.
Carry on.
And, how sad, to add another: a key Democratic "Chairwoman" from Virginia has just been quoted as saying, "The only qualification of the Republican Vice-Presidential Candidate SEEMS to be that she hasn't had an abortion."
Um...wow...
You could go so far as to say that there are massive gaffes on all sides, but Biden, by far, defies the conventionally accepted prototype of diplomat/policy-maker/great thinker/statesman that we have come to expect for his proposed office, even as Amercians shamefully defy substance in favor of style. When asked about his qualifications, Biden barked words to the effect that his IQ was higher than the questioner's. A man with such a high IQ would have found the will, the drive and the ability to graduate higher than 76 in a class of 85 at the Syracuse School of Law.
He is a symptom, yes, of a widespread problem that has us choosing the lesser of two evils. So why can't we simply admit that we are doing so and deride the poors decisions of them all, reject them out of hand, and choose more dynamic great thinkers to represent our interests? Where is the thought and eloquence now? Where are the great thinkers and statesmen now? Take a moment and see lanky Anbraham Lincoln next to portly Steven Douglas, saying, "Screw you, pal!" Abraham Lincoln once wrote a letter to a Civil War general; the letter was full of personal attacks, and when Lincoln showed his personal secretary the letter, the shocked secretary said, "Certainly you won't send this letter."
"No," Lincoln said, handing him another letter, "I will send this one," a well-reasoned, well-thought through explanation of his profound disappointments and hopes that the future will lead his general to be more judicious in his application of strategy.
The only way we will secure the leadership we desire is to understand ourselves, understand our world, and move forward with united voice in the grassroots; otherwise, we will get the flashy, insubstantive leadership we deserve while sleeping at the wheel.
I would gladly enter politics. I would not last long in the system except through the sagacity required to maneuver a corrupted system that contorts ideals into machinations, bbut it is time we look to people who would contort machinations into highest ideals.
Thank you, Sue. Sorry for the rant, but there it is. It's just how I feel.
Michael, it's my pleasure. When an older person shows the kind of depth and perception you have and display, it's always nice to see, but when a younger person does, it's all the more refreshing, and it makes me think there might still be some genuine hope for our future.
I wish you would enter politics. I think that the trouble is that the great minds, like yours, that you speak of, don't want to be scrutinized, don't wish to have their families put under strain of slander and untruths. I think you can "contort those machinations into the highest ideals." Let me know if you are serious. I will give you my unbridled support, and work to rally as many as I can behind you.
"A man with such a high IQ would have found the will, the drive and the ability to graduate higher than 76 in a class of 85 at the Syracuse School of Law." Very interesting! I had no idea.
- Joe Biden on Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction, Meet the Press, 2007
Now would that be the 50 year old mustard gas or the fake documents that Bush gave to Congress?
The way I see it...if you like Bush you would oppose McCain and vice versa.
Bush is status quo.
McCain is a Maverick out to bring down the likes of politicians like GWB.
They are supposedly at opposite ends of the spectrum.
And no I am not an Obama supporter by default Sue..up until Jan 08 I was an independant I still am but I choose to vote for Obama.
What do you think he meant by that, anyway?
What I dont understand is that for the most part....and take Palin out of the picture...for the most part I have seen very few threads in support of McCain rather most people critisize the people that support Obama and their support of McCain is limited to trying to bring down Obama.
Could it be there just isnt a whole lot nice to say about McCain?
Take care.
I don't know how else to communicate with you. I'm at a total loss. I really don't know what to say because if I were to say something like "all men are evil," you might say something like "all dogs bark." What am I supposed to say to that? Yeah they do. So what?
Sue B.© The Sting IS Worse Than the Buzz, Sep 10, 2008, 6:22pm EDT
Dingo's dont bark.
While I understand what you are saying that all politicians are the same I dont happen to share your opinion.