• Home
  • Friends
  • Groups
  • Share

SIGN IN | HELP
ovaloffice08.gather.com
  • group home|
  • featured|
  • posts|
  • photos|
  • videos|
  • members
by Carol Lloyd
Member since:
October 26, 2006

ObamA Chooses Senator Joe Biden D. Deleware as his Vice Presidential Running Mate

August 23, 2008 01:08 AM EDT (Updated: August 23, 2008 03:42 AM EDT)
views: 267 | comments: 128

Name: Joe Biden Age: 65 Education: University of Delaware (undergraduate), University of Syracuse (law) Resume: Five-term Democratic senator from Delaware, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, two-time Democratic presidential candidate   Source of Speculation: He's suddenly acting the part. Earlier this week, Biden introduced legislation (with Republican Sen. Dick Lugar of Indiana) that would triple non-military U.S. aid to Pakistan--legislation that just so happened to materialize the same day Obama was set to deliver a major speech in Washington on the future of U.S. national security. Miraculously, Obama announced in the aforementioned address that he would be "cosponsoring" the bill, immediately boosting his bipartisan foreign-policy cred. Talk about a tag team. Meanwhile, Biden rushed to the Illinois senator's defense Thursday over charges that he has not adequately addressed Afghanistan as chairman of a Senate Foreign Relations subcommittee, deftly defusing the issue with a letter to South Carolina Sen. Jim DeMint (R) that the New Republic's Noam Scheiber called "about as impressive a case as I've seen a VP candidate make for himself." Oh, and then there's the fact that Biden has come right out and confessed that he'd "make a great vice president." If he does say so himself.   Backstory: Biden's interest in the No. 2 slot is nothing new. Last November, a group of NEWSWEEK editors (including yours truly) asked the senator over lunch whether he'd consider serving as Hillary Clinton's vice president. His response? "I love Bill Clinton, but can you imagine being vice president? I'm not looking for a ceremonial post." He ruled out Secretary of State for the same reason. At the time, that was the news. But looking back, what's striking is how he didn't nix the idea of signing on with Obama as well. "In a Barack administration, I'd probably be looked to a whole lot more," he told us. "Now, I don't think [he] would ask me. But I think [he] would look to me more." This was two months before Iowa. Since dropping out of the race, Biden has become even more candid, recently telling Brian Williams, "Of course I'll say yes"--a rare deviation from the candidates' standard coyness. "If the presidential nominee thought that I could help him win," he added, "I'm [not] going to say to the first African-American candidate about to make history in the world, no, I will not help you." So where does Biden actually stand? According to a report this week in the Washington Post, he's "believed to be high on Obama's list."
  Odds: It's no suprise that Biden's in the running. The main reason is that his greatest strength--foreign-policy experience--is widely seen as Obama's greatest weakness. The Democratic Party's leading voice on foreign affairs--he's chaired the Senate Foreign Relations Committee three times during his 35 years in Washington--Biden is perhaps the only potential veep who could immediately and credibly go toe-to-to with Republican nominee John McCain on Iraq, terrorism, Afghanistan and Pakistan. As E.J. Dionne recently noted, "Biden has been critical of Bush's approach to Iraq and the world for the right reasons, and from the beginning." In the fall of 2002, he tried (with Republican Sens. Lugar  and Chuck Hagel) to pass a more modest war resolution that put additional constraints on Bush, and, like Obama, he was warning of the costs of a lengthy occupation even before the war began. Since then, Biden has presented and pushed a realistic proposal to divide Iraq into semi-autonomous Sunni, Shiite and Kurdish regions--a plan that may appeal to Obama as he works toward a responsible withdrawal--while arguing that the U.S. should refocus its resources on Afghanistan, Pakistan and loose nukes instead. (Conveniently, Obama agrees.) What's more, Biden's son Beau, the attorney general of Delaware, will be deploying to Iraq this fall with his national guard unit--meaning that Biden will be one of the few politicians (like McCain, whose son Jimmy is also serving in Iraq) for whom the war is viscerally, inescapably personal.
  Obviously, the Delaware senator is not the only older, whiter foreign-policy pro on Obama's list. But unlike, say, Sam Nunn or Jim Webb, he's expert at using his experience to score points on the trail, whether by attacking Republican inanities--a role he relishes--or clarifying Democratic proposals. In other words, he's good at policy and politics. As Ezra Klein has written, Biden dispenses with the traditional Democratic presumption that "Republicans are strong on national security, and voters needed to be convinced of their failures and then led to a place of support for a Democratic alternative," choosing instead to start "from the position that Republicans [have] been catastrophic failures on foreign policy, and their ongoing claims to competence and leadership should be laughed at." Obama can't do that on his own--but he could use someone who can. When Rudy Giuliani said, "America will be safer with a Republican president," for example, Obama spun out some airy sentences about taking "the politics of fear to a new low" and believing that "Americans are ready to reject those kind of politics." Biden, in contrast, mocked "America's Mayor." "Rudy Giuliani [is] probably the most underqualified man since George Bush to seek the presidency," he said. "There's only three things he mentions in a sentence --a noun, a verb, and 9/11. There's nothing else!" This serene self-confidence--even arrogance--made Biden the breakout star of the Democratic debates, and it would likely add a necessary dash of bareknuckle candor to Obama's "high road" bid. In other words, he'd actually make an effective sidekick. 

Biden's positives don't stop there. As a working-class Catholic with an average-Joe speaking style and a heartbreaking personal story--his wife and infant daughter died in a car crash just a month after he was elected to the Senate in 1972--he could woo the blue-collar whites who were reluctant to back Obama in the primaries. Even though Delaware is a lock for the Dems, Biden was born in purple Pennsylvania and has been a regular in the Philadelphia media market for decades. Plus, he's already survived the public scrutiny of two presidential campaigns--meaning no surprises.

Biden, of course, is far from perfect. He's famously long-winded. He tends to generate gaffes--like, say,  calling Obama "clean" and "articulate"--at semi-regular intervals. His thousands of Senate votes would provide Republicans with a treasure trove of oppo research. He was forced from the 1988 presidential race after plagiarizing a speech by Neil Kinnock, then-leader of the British Labour Party. He kowtowed to Delaware's credit card industry by supporting a bankruptcy bill despised by liberal activists. Despite his 2002 maneuvering, he ultimately voted to authorize the use of force in Iraq--another unpopular position on the left. And his decades spent swimming in the swamps of Washington may dilute Obama's call to "change our politics."

 

This is a bio from Stumper

 

NOW ALL WHAT ARE YOUR VIEWS ON THIS SELECTION?

view all photos
You need the latest Adobe Flash Player.
Install the player now
Expand Tag: obama choses joe biden as vp mate
Expand To Groups: !! ~*~ Geeks Я Us ~*~ !!, !! ~*~ Insane Asylum ~*~ !!, !! ~*~ Show Me the Points ~*~ !!, !! ~Striving for 3000~ !! Supporters, !!! Breaking 3,000 !!!, !!! GatherJournal !!!, !!! Of The Day !!!, !!! Post It, We're Not Picky !!!, !!! They're Coming To Take Me Away Ha Ha Ho Ho He He Post Anything Group !!!, !!!!! Pimp ~ Your ~ Points™ !!!!!, !!!!KARMA ~ Whatever Goes Around Comes Around!!!!, !!anything!!, !!na na hey hey we want points!!, !GATHERING POSTAHOLICS!, 'Doc' Dr. of Curmudgeon; esq. Fan Club, *~M*I*N*D*G*A*M*E*S~*, *P*O*S*T**I*T**A*L*L**2*0*0*8**, *~* We won't tell you what you can & can't post here, if you don't tell us what we can & can't post on Gather (unless you run Gather). Now, let's all write our lil hearts out and/or have some fun! ~*~, *~Fluffin' 'n Puffin'~*, *~~~Gatherers Gallery~~~*, .....The Bloggers Review....., A Beautiful World of Articles, Photo, Videos and You, brought to you by the Gather Women's Coalition, Affairs of the State, All, All about the 3000, All American, All articles/images get rated a 10!!, ALL OF THE POINTS - I NEED ALL OF THE POINTS THAT I CAN GET, All Posts Welcome!!!, Americans 4 America, Any article, picture or comment...Oh My!, Anything and Everything, Anything BUT Games - NO GAMES, ANYTHING GOES, Article Exposure, articles and comments to take a peak at.., Articles Galore, As The Points Turn, As the saying goes, As we gather to share, ASK A QUESTION.......GET AN ANSWER..........., AYE! WHAT DID U FIND FUNNY?, BERF Fan Club....it's not easy being BERF!!!, Big Time Points, Brain Core Dump, Bushwacker Truth Brigade, Casual Where, Catch All Drawer, Clear Minds Create, Comment the news, Completely Shameless Point Whoring, Confused about which/what article to post where? Post it here!, Content Collector, Debate the Questions, Desperate Gatherwives - Publish Anything, Discussion Questions/Debate Prompts, Do As You Wish, DragonSoul's Point Distribution Depot, dumping ground for good and bad, Earn Points Group, Etcetera, Etcetera, Etcetera, Everything, Everything 10, Everything 11, Everything 13, Everything 12, Everything 8, *~*EVS = WHATEVER*~*, EXCUSE ME...DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING YOU WANTED TO SAY???, Fifty States of WHATEVER YOU WANT!, Fluent Thinkers, FREE SPEECH AREA FOR EVERYONE ON GATHER, Free Thinking, FREEDOM GROUP, freepost, Friends Of Dan H, Friends on Gather, Frivolocity, Gather at the Posting Place, Gather Chats, Gather Politics Essential, Gather it All and Share it with Your Friends, Gather's Stars, GatherGroup, Gatherism, GatherPointAddicts, Get More Points, Get the point?, Get Your Points, Give me words to speak, Global Politics, Go Ahead and Vent!, Good Point, Group Exposure, my dream creation 2009, Groups A Day, Groups to join!, Groups with 500 or More Members, Help me get points for a cause, Help me out with something, PLEASE??, Hodge Podge Fun [Post Anything Group], Hot Topics, I appreciate your writing and photos, I like to have my cake and eat it too, I Love Surveys and Polls, I NEED POINTS!, I want it ALL, and I want it NOw!, I write and I take pictures because it brings me pleasure, ~*~I'm Not a Number~*~, Intelligent politics, Inviting-Points, IS IT NICE TO POINT - WELL YES IT IS !!!, It All Goes Here, It is my Opinion, IT'S ALL ABOUT THE POINTS - POINTS MAXIMIZER - JOIN MY GROUP, It's all good, Leave It Here, Let it out!, Let's Debate!!, Life, The Presidency of Barack Obama 2009-, Mark's Point, Maximus Optimus, Members Against Drunk Typing, Mindless Drivel, Miscellaneous Ramblings, Monkey Around To 3000, News, Politics and the Economy, Northern Virginians Unite!, November2007, One Article at a time, Only Observations, Opinionated Opinions, Our goal is 10,000 a month!, Oval Office 2008, Pains and Gains, People Lovers Everywhere!, pimpin4giftcards, Point Haven, Point Karma, point makers paradise, Point Palace, Point Pavilion, POINT PIGGYS, Point Winner, pointmagic, PointMasters, Points - Whatever You Want To Post, Points are great, but SHOW ME THE MONEY $$$$, POINTS FOR ALL, POINTS FOR ME - POINTS FOR YOU - PASS ME THE POINTS PLEASE, Points Generator, POINTS MAKE PRIZES, POINTS POINTS - ARE YOU HERE FOR POINTS AND PRIZES - I AM AND PROUD OF IT !!, Points Points Points, Political Futures, Political News Hound, Carol Lloyd, Political Ohio, Political, Social, and Religious Views Forum, Poll for the day, post anything except games, Post For Baby!, Post It If You Got It!, Post It Pretty, Post It Where? Post it Here!, ! Post Office @ Gather Town !, Post stuff of any kind - whatever comes to your mind!, Post the moon, Post what doesn't FIT anywhere else!, Post Whatever the Heck You Want!!, Post! Post! Post! Post! Post! Anything - article, images, video, Posting Points, post anything!, Posty Points, Posty with the Most, Public Forum, Publish freely, Questions to make you think, ramblings and other misc, Rant Away, Rate Me! (Post 1, Comment on 5), Ratings Rampage!, Red Headed Step-Child, Ron B, Internatural Man of mastery, FAN CLUB for an all around good guy., snail points, Sour Grapes, Speak your Mind~Anything Goes, Talk Nerdy to Me, Tea Time, The Chosen, The Conservative Club, The Fireplace Lounge, the little train that could group, The Loser's Club, THE PLACE TO VENT AND JUST TALK ABOUT THINGS., The Point Of It All, The Points-Meister!!!!, The Political Middle, The Polling Place, The Posting Station, The Realistic Approach, The Renewed Activist, The Sharing Place, The Woo Hoo gang, THE WORKS: every article, image & video, TheYaYa's, Things You Should Know About, Think About This, This, That and the Other, thought provoking, Trying for cash, Trying to Get to the Cash Option, Type and post What You want AND dont get Deleted!, Venting for Points!, Vote 2008!, Water Cooler - Chit Chat, We ALL Write, We the People, What's on your Mind, What's the Point?, ! Whatever Floats Your Boat (Post Almost Anything), whatonearth, WISHING FOR POINTS, Words are my Weapon of choice, Truth is my Shield, Work Pics, you point me, i'll point you, Your Candidates for 2008 Presidential Race, Your Survey Station, ZZZ Article, ZZZ Photo, ZZZ Video, ZZZ Anything! Points for it all!, ~Dump Anything Here~, ! Points *Wizards* of the Universe !, ~~~Ashleigh's Post ANYTHING Corner~~~
recommend this
email
print
link to this page
Paste this link into an email or IM
Bookmark this post:
Facebook
Twitter
Delicious
Buzz
More

Comments: 128

Bob B. Aug 23, 2008, 1:21am EDT
I really question his choice Carol. Obama speaks of change and yet he chooses a 40 year veteran of the Senate. That', to me, is not change.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Charles M. Aug 23, 2008, 1:23am EDT
Well the next round of fun starts.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Shoshana H. Aug 23, 2008, 1:35am EDT
I think it is a *very* canny choice. After all, he does want to *win* this election ...and this running mate can provide thesame kinds f expertise that Johnson provided (sort of ) for Kennedy. There are major differences between these 2 running mates, of course ...but before Mr. Obama can effect change, he has to get in, and he isn't going to do that without the help of those who knowthe terrain. I am reminded of the Democratic campaigns of 1968 and 1972. The ideals were all there. The diversity was all there. The candidates were all saying the right things ...and they lost by landslides. This sounds like a good mix of idealist and practical politics that just might take the trick.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Brian T. Aug 23, 2008, 1:55am EDT
I'll be voting for President not Vice President and I feel that McCain only offers 4 more yrs of Bush type policies which America can't afford. I don't know exactly what Obama brings to the table but I know I don't like things as they are or wish to see more of the same. Obama couldn't be any worse than what we have or what John McCain represents (more of the same) if he bent over backwards trying.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
David K. Aug 23, 2008, 2:00am EDT
Bob - So which is it? Experience is important, but not really?

Obama has indicated that he wants his VP to be a working colleague, not a figurehead. Obama has the vision and breadth of understanding needed for the future, Biden would add an historical memory for how to get things done in Congress. Seems like a good working combination to me. In addition, Biden can be counted on as VP to tell the President what he thinks - honestly, and behind closed doors where it belongs - rather than doing an end-around and running his own little shadow government like Cheney.

Change means change in how things work, not change for the sake of change. (Gee, where have I heard that?) A Biden pick will give a great combination of experience and vision.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Dave McGill Aug 23, 2008, 2:09am EDT
Hey, Carol....Congrats on getting this out so quick....but how did you let the NY Times beat you by two whole minutes....

Seriously, a great post with a ton of great information...
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Carol Lloyd Aug 23, 2008, 2:16am EDT
THEY DIDNT HAVE TO PUBLISH IT TO AS MANY GROUPS AS I DID BUT ALL KIDDING ASIDE THE ARTICLE HAS BEEN WAITING FOR OVER A WEEK
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
John Knight Aug 23, 2008, 2:17am EDT
I think it would be a very wise choice, Mr. Biden has tremendous credibility with virtually all factions in DC, and in the international realms.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Carol Lloyd Aug 23, 2008, 2:18am EDT
THE NEXT QUESTION WOULD BE AND SRY CANT FIND MY SPECS RIGHT NOW. WOULD BE HOW DOES 35 YRS IN WASHINGTON REPRESENT A MESSAGE OF CHANGE AND THATS WHAT MCCAIN SURROGATES WILL HIT ON. BIDEN IS IS GOOD CHOICE. VERY AFFABLE SMART AND POLITICALLY SAVY GUY
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Carol Lloyd Aug 23, 2008, 2:19am EDT
I SET THIS ARTICLE UP LAST FRIDAY. FIGURED HE WAS GOING TO BE THE CHOICE
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
''The One & Only BERF" .. Aug 23, 2008, 2:20am EDT
If Obama really wanted to *win* this election, Shoshana, then one has to wonder why he would pick a running mate who was himself forced out of his own 1987 presidential campaign for stealing parts of Neil Kinnock's speech (not to mention, an earlier incident of law school plagiarism).
One also should wonder, when Biden gives his speech at the upcoming Democratic Convention, how much of it came from material that was originally used by someone else first. However, I am sure the expression "high-tech bully" will be excluded from his address as he and Obama fight "mano-a-mano" for the White House............
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
John Knight Aug 23, 2008, 2:29am EDT
Berf,

I believe that would render Mr. Biden, if it is the worst that can be said of him; "squeaky clean", but Washington standards  ; )
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
David K. Aug 23, 2008, 2:37am EDT
Carol - No one ever said "change" meant toss out anyone over 47 years old. That's just propaganda by the opponents.

Change is a way of thinking. Obama brings that. Biden himself was the youngest Senator to be elected (at 29) and has always been quite outspoken and up front with his views. And while he brings decades of experience with him to the table, he's always been considered the guy you could count on to give you real straight talk, not just lip service. Not a bad guy to have to bounce ideas off of...and to get an honest assessment of opposing viewpoints.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
''The One & Only BERF" .. Aug 23, 2008, 2:38am EDT
"if it is the worst that can be said of him," I would agree with you, John.........
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Christine Zibas Aug 23, 2008, 3:03am EDT
This is not who I would have chosen (I was hoping for Webb), but I think Biden will be able to deal with the Republican bullies who will be out in full force from here on out. So, in that sense, it was a good choice. He knows how the game is played, he has made and learned from his own mistakes, and he can present his views cogently and forcefully. He'll be adept at countering all the bs likely to be headed his way.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Carol Lloyd Aug 23, 2008, 3:05am EDT
i LIKED WEBB AS WELL
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Christine Zibas Aug 23, 2008, 3:07am EDT
And if Republicans posit the question, "How can someone with the long Senate experience Biden has work for change?" then how can McCain? He's been trying to steal that slogan since the minute he heard it. Anyone who saw the TV ads during the Olympics knows that the McCain camp is trying to crib every idea put forward by the Obama team.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Carol LeHane Aug 23, 2008, 3:14am EDT
Since I haven't got my email, I can only assume this is still media speculation, and just checking CNN it appears based on the combination of "party sources" and all the other likely candidates except Hillary Clinton having been eliminated.

I keep thinking about that meeting between Obama and Hillary that they held while the media was still speculating about the when and where.

Maybe, it is just my desire to see the media get egg on its collective face, but until I get my email I will assume the Obama intended to be true to his word about his supporters being the first to know and if Biden is his choice the "party sources" are going to be read the riot act if they actually knew what they were talking about when they told someone in the media that Biden was his pick.

If Obama choice was leaked, I hope it was by someone who was hoping for a job in Obama's administration. and by proving that they have loose tongues they have dashed their own hope for a new job.

I bet Obama is not thrilled with the thought of having to rewrite the email to his supporters, and is even less thrilled with the thought of all emails that won't be opened and the contribution solicitation that will also unread.

Then there is the probable Republican commericial that say the leak is proof than Obama has bad judgement when it comes to letting things slip and/or choosing advisors who can't be trusted to keep their mouth's shut and that will be a enormous risk if he choose people with loose mouth to occupy position when they would have access to national security matters. Could prove to be an expensive leak.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Carol LeHane Aug 23, 2008, 3:21am EDT
Just noticed all the errors in the last paragraph, but I am tired and I think most people will be able to decipher is correctly.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
~Lady Neeetah of California~Obama #44 W. Aug 23, 2008, 3:44am EDT
I liked Jim Webb, and I'm disappointed he wasn't chosen. Of course, Biden has a good many attributes.

As far as the son that Webb has in Iraq, Biden's son shall be deployed to Iraq on October 3.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
~Lady Neeetah of California~Obama #44 W. Aug 23, 2008, 3:45am EDT
Hello Carol LeHane. It's always good to see you!
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
The Honorable Robbie Flynn, Governor of Robbieland... Aug 23, 2008, 3:54am EDT
I have predicted this for months! Hell Yeah! Joe Biden kicks ass! November is going to be great!
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Chick J. Aug 23, 2008, 10:00am EDT
Good choice.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Carol Lloyd Aug 23, 2008, 10:02am EDT
well there it is some need to get back from vacation after the primaries and get back to work
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Brian T. Aug 23, 2008, 10:06am EDT
I also feel that Joe Biden is a good over all choice, he brings a lot of experience to the table.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Don (are we Marxist yet?) H. Aug 23, 2008, 11:19am EDT
Honestly, I thought Biden had too many liabilities.

He was accused of plagiarizing a speech by Neil Kinnock, then-leader of the British Labour Party.

When questioned by a New Hampshire resident about his grades in law school Biden had claimed falsely to have graduated in the "top half" of his class, (when he actually graduated 76th in a class of 85) that he had attended on a full scholarship, and had received three degrees. In fact he had received two majors, History and Political Science, and a single B.A., as well as a half scholarship based on financial need.

He stated that Obama does not have enough experience and that he would be proud to run WITH or AGAINST John McCain because he is the better candidate.

Also, there was that statement he made about Indians working at 7-11, and the 'clean and articulate' Obama....

Well... aside from those gaffes, he always seemed to be a decent man, intelligent... though somewhat partisan. Overall, I don't think it was a bad choice for him.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Sandra T. Aug 23, 2008, 12:51pm EDT
Just another reason why politics sucks. Let's pick the guy whose been in it for 40 years and tell people we want CHANGE... HELLO???
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Julie Ann Dawson Aug 23, 2008, 1:10pm EDT
As has already been noted, CHANGE does not mean "fire everyone already on the job and replace them with interns." I wasn't keen on the choice at first, but the more I think about it the more it makes perfect sense.

Biden will provide good contrast and balance to Obama. Obama brings new ideas. Biden brings perspective. Obama brings a nuanced, philosophical way of looking at issues. Biden brings practicality and straight-forwardness. Obama appeals to the cerebral, college educated crowd. Biden appeals to the working class.

What everyone forgets is that the presidency is not a kingship. It's an administrative position. The role of the president is to administrate. And smart administrators surround themselves with experienced people who are willing to tell them the truth. That is what Obama did.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Brain W. Aug 23, 2008, 2:24pm EDT
Yo go Julie...change is being taken out of context...proponents wants to talk about change but they haven't done much in changing the last 8 yrs feascal at all??? Where is the change in that...McCain>????
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Dan H. Aug 23, 2008, 2:59pm EDT
Thank You For Posting To:
http://friendsofdanh.gather.com.
Our goal is to help you further your exposure and to support other gather members.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Marilyn M. Aug 23, 2008, 3:08pm EDT
Every time I've seen Biden on TV (other than campaigning), he's been rude and loud. Wouldn't have been my choice. And I love the quotes the Republicans have already been putting out there - about what Biden said about Obama when he was campaigning against him. Like he doesn't have enough experience...and that being President is not on-the-job training. Now "they" say he's changed his mind. Of course. Like anyone else, once a campaign is over you change your mind.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Capt Seaweed Aug 23, 2008, 4:01pm EDT
You guys are missing the point. Obama doesn't want to change "politics" in America he wants to change AMERICA. Wake up and smell the coffee before you are walking around greeting each other as comrade. Socialism is not the American way.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Capt Seaweed Aug 23, 2008, 4:03pm EDT
Marilyn,

The only one who has truly changed his mind is Biden who specifically said he would never take the VP spot and had no desire to serve in that capacity.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Don (are we Marxist yet?) H. Aug 23, 2008, 5:07pm EDT
"Socialism is not the American way."

That's it in a nutshell. Do the math: Obama+Pelosi+Reid=SOCIALIST STATE
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Barbary Chaapel Aug 23, 2008, 5:33pm EDT
Thank you, thank you, Carol, for this most informative article.

I am hopeful.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Richard Owl Mirror Aug 23, 2008, 7:18pm EDT
Is THIS the real reason Sen Hillary Clinton wasn't vetted for VP ?

*Listen very carefully to the first 15 seconds of this video

I believe these few words are precisely why Sen Obama didn't vet Hillary Clinton for VP

www.youtube.com/watch

Words are my weapon of choice and, Truth is my Shield

Richard Owl Mirror
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Sandy (Site Psychic™) Knauer Aug 23, 2008, 7:25pm EDT
He's famously long-winded. Ah, and isn't it wonderful to hear two men (Obama and Biden) who can hold your interest with their long wind? I love it!

I also appreciate Carol LeHane's comment very much. I was very disappointed with the leak, and more so with the people who jumped on it and published, knowing that it was so against Obama's plan. I expect it will be used against him somehow.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Don (are we Marxist yet?) H. Aug 23, 2008, 7:57pm EDT
"He's famously long-winded"

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..... is it november yet?
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Carol Lloyd Aug 23, 2008, 9:12pm EDT
I dont see major liablities if you weigh the good with the negative but then I would have to expect educated voters in the USA and thats asking a lot.....
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Carol Lloyd Aug 23, 2008, 10:03pm EDT
richard how could you contaminate my post with ann coulter. that woman is trash pure and simple trash
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Sy g. Aug 23, 2008, 10:44pm EDT
I have always been puzzled by the flip flop "problem" Show me someone who has never changed his/her mind, and I will show you a really dangerous character.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Richard Owl Mirror Aug 23, 2008, 10:58pm EDT
Carol Lloyd , richard how could you contaminate my post with ann coulter. that woman is trash pure and simple trash

Yikes! I told you to only listen to the first fifteen seconds ! LOL

What I wanted you to hear was:

"She and john mccain are very close, they always laughed that if they wound up being the nominees of their parties it would be the most civilized election in american history and they were afraid they would put the voters to sleep." ~ Quote of Bill Clinton


Senator Obama doesn't need a VP candidate who is best friends with his rival. He needs someone who will take a stand and show the differences that separate the Dem & Repub policies.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Rude D. Aug 23, 2008, 11:36pm EDT
That's it in a nutshell. Do the math: Obama+Pelosi+Reid=SOCIALIST STATE


You do the math you third grade drop out!

Bush : war + lies + torture +You’re either with us or against us + SPYING ON AMERICANS - Constitution = FASCISM.

BUSH=McSAME
WAKE UP!
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Doc, in the middle, holding on... Curmudgeon esq. Aug 24, 2008, 12:54am EDT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDVUPqoowf8
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Deborah B. Aug 24, 2008, 4:40am EDT
1 - I was already voting for Obama
2 - I really like Biden, I had hoped he would at least get a Cabinet position but VP is good with me
3 - Do not mistake Obama or Biden either one as being weak. These are strong men. These are intelligent men. These are dedicated men. Finally we wont have a President that seems to be the puppet of the VP
4 - I do not have any doubt that he picked him because he believes that he is prepared and able to be President at a moment's notice.
5. - I don't have any doubt that if Obama wins that each Cabinet member, each head of this and that will be carefully selected, confered with on matters that concern their position, knowledge, experience and then he will make his decisions from the info gathered, and will take responsibility for his actions
6 - I believe if he wants to implement Change that he speaks of that Biden can help him do so.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Carol Lloyd Aug 24, 2008, 4:44am EDT
LOL Richard that woman ranks with root beer in dislikes for me and I hate root beer and carrots
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Carol Lloyd Aug 24, 2008, 4:51am EDT
Here is my two cents on his choice. Biden is a good politician very astute but 35 yrs in DC does give you a lot of room for baggage. You all know I wanted Hillary but I would have chosen Jim Webb. That guy is loaded with experience as well as being a Sec of Navy and one yr as Sec of Defense under Reagan. Son in Iraq. Viet Nam Vet has all the right pedigree to take some steam out of McCain's war experience. Although with all due respect being held in a cage doesn't make you experienced in defense. I cant trash the man for breaking and signing those documents for the N Vietnamese. Most of us under the same circumstances would have done the same.

But I dont care for the strategy of playing it safe thats not a good game plan to win a game
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Carol Lloyd Aug 24, 2008, 4:52am EDT
Well Rude my friend suggestions? Please dont give me McKinney Nadar or Barr. They are non starters
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Digital Diva S. Aug 24, 2008, 6:39am EDT
A new interesting twist to the story!
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Carol Lloyd Aug 24, 2008, 6:39am EDT
Ty Sy a voice of reason in a forest of confusion
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Kay & Snowy Cat Aug 24, 2008, 7:41am EDT
Wow Carol! You know, I completely forgot about Jim Webb. Would have been an excellent choice and keeping with the "change" message of the campaign instead of "more of the same" Biden. Very astute observation.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Carol Lloyd Aug 24, 2008, 7:51am EDT
I never liked playing it safe. Its like a team than goes into the second half with the idea of protecting a lead and ends up losing as they didnt play to win. Web would have been a gutsy choice. Hillary would have made this election a slam dunk. But what do I know?
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
lea and... c. Aug 24, 2008, 8:52am EDT
Doc...is the only thing you can say is watch the video of something that happened months ago and we all know about? Biden has changed his mind since he could not even compete in the primaries.
Do you have an opinion?
I do. Obama is the most qualified person we had running in the last 30 years.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
lea and... c. Aug 24, 2008, 9:04am EDT
And by the way we have plenty of socialistic institutions in this country.
The right has done a good job of keeping americans afraid of words like socialism..well look it up and find how many capitalisitc countries are democratic- socialist and do better than we do economically.
The only thing that can bring this country down is ignorance and fascism that quietly strips the constitution of our rights and a party that uses fear and patriotism to trash the other party so they can conitnue their agenda.
It happened in Germany, Italy and few other places and it can happen here.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Mark-John K. Aug 24, 2008, 9:10am EDT
How interesting (and comical); McCain is a fossilised and useless same-old same-old "insider;" Biden is merely someone who "knows the terrain!" How absolutely comical...and absurd.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Carol Lloyd Aug 24, 2008, 9:14am EDT
You got Mark I would have leaned more toward Jim Webb
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Ruth MacGill Aug 24, 2008, 9:51am EDT
I like Biden as VP candidate. With Bush moving on Iran, and arousing the wrath of Russia by his intentions to set up missiles in Poland, and Russia throwing her weight around in Georgia, Obama's greatest need is experience in foreign policy. He gets that experience in spades with Joe Biden. It is also a plus that they both listen to and respect Senator Richard Lugar, a man I greatly respec.

Also, Obama wants to make changes in how things get done in Washington, and Biden's long experience in Washington will help him sort out the best ways to do it.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Ruth MacGill Aug 24, 2008, 9:54am EDT
E-gads - I wish comments could be edited! Here's the 't' I left off in 'respect'.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Carol Lloyd Aug 24, 2008, 9:58am EDT
then you could put Sam Nunn into the picture
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Carol Lloyd Aug 24, 2008, 9:59am EDT
I am not overly enthusiastic about a play it safe choice especially this one.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Doc, in the middle, holding on... Curmudgeon esq. Aug 24, 2008, 10:36am EDT
oooops.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
George Corneliussen Aug 24, 2008, 11:03am EDT
Maybe Obama is holding back on the specifics of his plans for change. Jimmy Carter laid out his plans in black and white and we didn't like it. Guess what he was right.
On April 18, 1977 Jimmy Carter Delivered This Speech On Energy
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
David Anderson Aug 24, 2008, 12:02pm EDT
I think it is important to keep in mind that bringing "change" to Washington is not going to involved a wholesale purging of the U.S. Congress and Senate. I don't see Senator Obama out their asking people to vote against every incumbent. The reasons for this are simple. One, it would never happen. Two, there are some good people in Washington - they've just been overshadowed by the bad for far too long.

I think more than anything Barack Obama stands for the idea that government can accomplish good things when it is run effectively - in other words when the good of the country is placed before partisan rhetoric and ego-centric show boating. If Joe Biden's years of experience can help Obama accomplish this goal, so be it.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Carol Lloyd Aug 24, 2008, 12:27pm EDT
Excellent point David but so many Obama supporters dont see it that way. they seem to be looking for some kind of wholesale change and its not going to happen that way.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Cynthia C. Aug 24, 2008, 12:52pm EDT
I like Rude's math. That works for me.

I also had my fingers crossed for Webb, but Biden will do.

The more I read about Biden, the more I am sure he is an excellent pick. Family values? He's got it in spades over the slimy bunch of sexual predators, divorceés, closeted gays who preach virulent macho policies, etc...etc... Foreign Affairs experience, he's got a 20+ congressional history to draw on and the fact that his son is headed off to Iraq says it all - compared to the bush/Cheney team of cowards who are all hat and no cattle, and he lives modestly, in one house and he can find it on a map as opposed to Mr. 10 houses McCain who isn't really sure where he lives and has a problem finding his way "home".
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Linda G. Aug 24, 2008, 3:07pm EDT
On paper Biden is highly qualified, but I can see him as doing anything for Obama except making him look bad. Obama reminds me of a child that ask his parents to fight his battles and college students that bring their parents to campus with them to help them get along. If Obama is so qualified to be president, why then did he choose an old Washington insider? If Obama claims to want to run a different more polite campaign, why did he choose a loud mouth heckler like Biden? If Obama wants the youth vote and to campaign on the platform of absolute change, why pick a political hack that is old enough to be his father. I am sorry, this choice makes me worry, will Obama be calling Biden in the middle of the night whenever there is trouble or will he act like a reckless teenager and try and handle a situation himself and make it worse?
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Linda G. Aug 24, 2008, 3:11pm EDT
As far as Biden being president at any moment, he barely got any votes in the primary. Hillary got 18 million, if Obama was going to pick some one on the basis of being ready to be president and some one the public would support he should have chosen Hillary. He is is an arrogant fool as far as I can see. The convention will be marred by Hillary protestors and the vision of solidarity will not happen.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Prima Donna Aug 24, 2008, 3:38pm EDT
David K. and David Anderson are voices of reason in this discussion. Thank you for your intelligent comments.

For those who argue that Biden and McCain are the same, you haven't been paying attention. Though they have been friends for many years, it is Biden who has been a constant critic of George Bush, whether it is regarding his misuse of presidential powers, his stacking of the U.S. Supreme Court and Justice Department, or the handling of the Iraq war and foreign policy.

Biden quoted McCain in his speech yesterday, using McCain's own words to show that McCain was in lockstep with Bush 95% of the time.

There is only one ticket for change, and that is Obama/Biden. Obama has the vision, tenacity, and proven ability to bring more people into the political process. Biden has the experience and knowledge to get the change done.

They make a terrific team.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Prima Donna Aug 24, 2008, 3:47pm EDT
Hillary's supporters, if they are true to everything she stands for, will vote for the candidate who supports equal pay for equal work, family friendly policies in the workplace, and health care for all Americans. They will support the leaders that have stood up for women who have been victims of violence. There is only one choice they can possibly make -- Obama/Biden.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Carol Lloyd Aug 24, 2008, 4:35pm EDT
Well it has been left unsaid for the most part but a part of Hillary's base are the blue color rural voter and the question then must be asked as to how much race will factor into their decision as to which candidate to support. To say its a non factor is putting blinders on. I am in rural central Florida and it is a factor with blue collar workers here.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Carol Lloyd Aug 24, 2008, 4:39pm EDT
Donna one of my greatest fears is that Obama supporters seem to think that its going to be a wholesale house cleaning inside the beltway and they are going to be disillusioned when it doesn't happen. There is a lot about Washington politics that works well and Obama's promise has more to do with approaching issues within the DC framework differently. Not change it.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
TJ Thompson Aug 24, 2008, 5:29pm EDT
In 2007, Biden's voting record was 94.2% liberal. This is the FDR-Stalin ticket, peeps.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Sy g. Aug 24, 2008, 7:12pm EDT
There is nothing about TJ's comment that makes sense to me including his name or his icon. Yes, Biden is a liberal. And??? What does "the FDR-Stalin" ticket mean. FDR was a great American President, Stalin was a viscious murdering communist dictator. None of the 4 men involved here have anything to do with one another. I am confused.

I am also confused by the Acquit McCarthy part of your name. I can think of only 2 McCarthys, Joe and Gene, and neither were ever convicted of anything, although Joe was a feeble minded, out of touch, sadistic, and narrow minded bastard, who ruined many lives for no reason, while laughably failing completely to detect any of the real communist spies who were selling the country out for money. Is that who you mean?
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
WARIO BROTHERS Aug 24, 2008, 7:33pm EDT
FOUR MORE YEARS!!!

Waaaaaaa,Jaajajajjajajajajaja!!!

Blind followers of the democratic Kool-Aid will believe that. John McCain is another GWB. Please... McCain was the Democratic most favorite Bipartisan until... sadly, and unfortunately he is running for president.

Just a few months ago Democrats loved him. Now that he jeopardizes democrats' white house dreams: "he is not the same maverick, he has changed so much, he even looks like bush"

Dear democrats: I hope you are smarter than the leaders of your party. I am not asking you to vote for the GOP candidate. All I am asking you is to be independent of the stupid political attacks you heard from the unscrupulous media. As an example: I do not listen or agree with Rush or Hanity, my mind is FREE from manipulators, and so should be yours.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Carol Lloyd Aug 24, 2008, 8:00pm EDT
Mario this is the one place on Gather where you will find free open minds not afraid to put it out there for discussion so youre welcome here but dont dis my people
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Carol Lloyd Aug 24, 2008, 8:01pm EDT
TJ Be more specific please
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
WARIO BROTHERS Aug 24, 2008, 10:17pm EDT
Carol who is your people? You may think I "dis" the Kool-aid drinkers. When in fact, I just talk to the open minded. I do respect libs, dems, progs, etc. When it comes to TV Ads "believe it all" voters, I just have pitty for them and pitty for their votes since they are the majority in both parties: Reps and Dems.

Weak minded republicans are not my people, and weak minded democrats should not be anybody peoples. Unfortunately this country has repeatedly voted on candidate that successfully have manipulated weak minded voters.

Open minded voters, Reps and Dems, are just a minority.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
WARIO BROTHERS Aug 24, 2008, 10:31pm EDT
Please, discuss my thinking and ideology, and do not attack my gramar or ortography. Misspelling a word does not make my thoughts "vetter or worzt".
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Carol Lloyd Aug 24, 2008, 11:33pm EDT
My people are the conservative, liberal, independent and moderates who all come here and put there views out there for intelligent discussion. Mario I would be lost without my spell checker lol.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Kay & Snowy Cat Aug 25, 2008, 7:13am EDT
The object for both parties is to win. The "message" Obama came up with this year was "hope and change." It beat out all other "themes." So now when it is crunch time, Obama et. al. will concentrate on the tried and true and play the same Washington political games. You can fault Karl Rove for introducing the "attack" mode of campaiging, but democrats took notes and will do the same--Winning trumps everything, apparently.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Mark-John K. Aug 25, 2008, 7:46am EDT
Jeff-

If you don't mind, who are you fronting for POTUS?
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Sy g. Aug 25, 2008, 8:28am EDT
Gloom has always been the favorite atmosphere of a certain segment of the population, that tends to hang out at both of the political extremes. An important part of the gloom approach to life, is that everything is hopeless, and that the situation is impossible. The
"bad guys" are either the monied corporate interests (for the leftist gloomers) or the international liberal elite (for the right wing militia types). In recent years both have united in naming other groups as the center of the "conspiracy".

One of my favorites is the infamous 911 conspiracy theory, in which gloomers from both the left and right cannot be told apart.

The real point is that the gloomer conspiracy "I told you this was hopeless" message is really not about politics at all, but about psychology. I am sure Jeff does not have a candidate for POTUS (correct me if Im wrong Jeff, maybe you like the egotistical loser RN), because that would imply that there is actually a possibility for something positive.

The gloomer approach to reality has spread to some extent among the population, probably because of the truly difficult period we are in, and especially because we are living through what I believe to be the worst administration in US history.

I think it is time to stop indulging in gloom. As Sandy Knauer has put it in a marvelous post, it really is time to win the game, and take our country back. We dont need more gloom, we need change.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Mark-John K. Aug 25, 2008, 8:47am EDT
Allow me to interject my own bit of "intellectual" Freedom. While I do agree that Jeff exudes an attitude of nihilism, and "doom and gloomers" are rampant in todays self-centered, feminised Society, I strongly disagree with your opinion as to its' source...it is the Leftist and the Liberal that see's things in such an ugly light, due to their self-absorption, and their lack of personal responsibility and Faith.

Socialism is their "Utopia;" but there is no refuge in it.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Carol Lloyd Aug 25, 2008, 9:16am EDT
Somewhere between Jeff and Mark-John there is an answer. Mark you cant put your head in the sand and blame it all on the glooms of society. And what do you mean feminised? Seems like you guys have been doing it not all too well for well over 10k years. And shame on you having me look what is POTUS at 9am without my coffee yet lol. but I am sure you knew I would look it up.
What is it about socialism that we seem to fear so much? Its not perfect but to be a doom and gloomer is sure not the answer. But Mark there is enough blame to go around without focusing on just one group. I am liberal as I am dependent on many social programs. So if you are wealthy you will support a candidate that looks out for you. Thats how we think. But being at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder I realize I have to look out for for those that have for if I dont their loses will trickle down to me. We need to realize that we are not in this mess along and vote accordingly.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Carol Lloyd Aug 25, 2008, 9:19am EDT
Jeff there are no easy answers and a libertarian platform simply will not work in a society we find ourselves in now. Its a recipe for revolution and I dont think youre ready for that one yet. Instead of so much focus on what is broken focus on what works and then repair what doesn't from a position of strength and not desperation.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Carol Lloyd Aug 25, 2008, 9:48am EDT
Potus eh Mark-John how about PNAC?
The Project for the New American Century, or PNAC, is a Washington-based think tank created in 1997. Above all else, PNAC desires and demands one thing: The establishment of a global American empire to bend the will of all nations. They chafe at the idea that the United States, the last remaining superpower, does not do more by way of economic and military force to bring the rest of the world under the umbrella of a new socio-economic Pax Americana.

The fundamental essence of PNAC's ideology can be found in a White Paper produced in September of 2000 entitled "Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources for a New Century." In it, PNAC outlines what is required of America to create the global empire they envision. According to PNAC, America must:
* Reposition permanently based forces to Southern Europe, Southeast Asia and the Middle East;
* Modernize U.S. forces, including enhancing our fighter aircraft, submarine and surface fleet capabilities;
* Develop and deploy a global missile defense system, and develop a strategic dominance of space;
* Control the "International Commons" of cyberspace;
* Increase defense spending to a minimum of 3.8 percent of gross domestic product, up from the 3 percent currently spent.

Most ominously, this PNAC document described four "Core Missions" for the American military. The two central requirements are for American forces to "fight and decisively win multiple, simultaneous major theater wars," and to "perform the 'constabulary' duties associated with shaping the security environment in critical regions." Note well that PNAC does not want America to be prepared to fight simultaneous major wars. That is old school. In order to bring this plan to fruition, the military must fight these wars one way or the other to establish American dominance for all to see.

Why is this important? After all, wacky think tanks are a cottage industry in Washington, DC. They are a dime a dozen. In what way does PNAC stand above the other groups that would set American foreign policy if they could? Two events brought PNAC into the mainstream of American government: the disputed election of George W. Bush, and the attacks of September 11th. When Bush assumed the Presidency, the men who created and nurtured the imperial dreams of PNAC became the men who run the Pentagon, the Defense Department and the White House. When the Towers came down, these men saw, at long last, their chance to turn their White Papers into substantive policy.

Vice President Dick Cheney is a founding member of PNAC, along with Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Defense Policy Board chairman Richard Perle. Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz is the ideological father of the group. Bruce Jackson, a PNAC director, served as a Pentagon official for Ronald Reagan before leaving government service to take a leading position with the weapons manufacturer Lockheed Martin.

PNAC is staffed by men who previously served with groups like Friends of the Democratic Center in Central America, which supported America's bloody gamesmanship in Nicaragua and El Salvador, and with groups like The Committee for the Present Danger, which spent years advocating that a nuclear war with the Soviet Union was "winnable."

PNAC has recently given birth to a new group, The Committee for the Liberation of Iraq, which met with National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice in order to formulate a plan to "educate" the American populace about the need for war in Iraq. CLI has funneled millions of taxpayer dollars to support the Iraqi National Congress and the Iraqi heir presumptive, Ahmed Chalabi. Chalabi was sentenced in absentia by a Jordanian court in 1992 to
22 years in prison for bank fraud after the collapse of Petra Bank, which he founded in 1977. Chalabi has not set foot in Iraq since 1956, but his Enron-like business credentials apparently make him a good match for the Bush administration's plans.

PNAC's "Rebuilding America's Defenses" report is the institutionalization of plans and ideologies that have been formulated for decades by the men currently running American government. The PNAC Statement of Principles is signed by Cheney, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld, as well as by Eliot Abrams, Jeb Bush, Bush's special envoy to Afghanistan Zalmay Khalilzad, and many others. William Kristol, famed conservative writer for the Weekly Standard, is also a co-founder of the group. The Weekly Standard is owned by Ruppert Murdoch, who also owns international media giant Fox News.

The desire for these freshly empowered PNAC men to extend American hegemony by force of arms across the globe has been there since day one of the Bush administration, and is in no small part a central reason for the Florida electoral battle in 2000. Note that while many have said that Gore and Bush are ideologically identical, Mr. Gore had no ties whatsoever to the fellows at PNAC. George W. Bush had to win that election by any means necessary, and PNAC signatory Jeb Bush was in the perfect position to ensure the rise to prominence of his fellow imperialists. Desire for such action, however, is by no means translatable into workable policy. Americans enjoy their comforts, but don't cotton to the idea of being some sort of Neo-Rome.

On September 11th, the fellows from PNAC saw a door of opportunity open wide before them, and stormed right through it.

Bush released on September 20th 2001 the "National Security Strategy of the United States of America." It is an ideological match to PNAC's "Rebuilding America's Defenses" report issued a year earlier. In many places, it uses exactly the same language to describe America's new place in the world.

Recall that PNAC demanded an increase in defense spending to at least 3.8% of GDP. Bush's proposed budget for next year asks for $379 billion in defense spending, almost exactly 3.8% of GDP.

In August of 2002, Defense Policy Board chairman and PNAC member Richard Perle heard a policy briefing from a think tank associated with the Rand Corporation. According to the Washington Post and The Nation, the final slide of this presentation described "Iraq as the tactical pivot, Saudi Arabia as the strategic pivot, and Egypt as the prize" in a war that would purportedly be about ridding the world of Saddam Hussein's weapons. Bush has deployed massive forces into the Mideast region, while simultaneously engaging American forces in the Philippines and playing nuclear chicken with North Korea. Somewhere in all this lurks at least one of the "major theater wars" desired by the September 2000 PNAC report.

Iraq is but the beginning, a pretense for a wider conflict. Donald Kagan, a central member of PNAC, sees America establishing permanent military bases in Iraq after the war. This is purportedly a measure to defend the peace in the Middle East, and to make sure the oil flows. The nations in that region, however, will see this for what it is: a jump-off point for American forces to invade any nation in that region they choose to. The American people, anxiously awaiting some sort of exit plan after America defeats Iraq, will see too late that no exit is planned.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Carol Lloyd Aug 25, 2008, 9:50am EDT
Mark "We were had"
The Project for a New American Century, or PNAC, is a group founded in 1997 that has been agitating since its inception for a war with Iraq. PNAC was the driving force behind the drafting and passage of the Iraqi Liberation Act, a bill that painted a veneer of legality over the ultimate designs behind such a conflict. The names of every prominent PNAC member were on a letter delivered to President Clinton in 1998 which castigated him for not implementing the Act by driving troops into Baghdad.
PNAC has funneled millions of taxpayer dollars to a Hussein opposition group called the Iraqi National Congress, and to Iraq's heir-apparent, Ahmed Chalabi, despite the fact that on 31 counts of bank fraud. Chalabi and the INC have, over the years, gathered support for their cause by promising oil contracts to anyone that would help to put them in power in Iraq.
Most recently, PNAC created a new group called The Committee for the Liberation of Iraq. Staffed entirely by PNAC members, The Committee has set out to "educate" Americans via cable news connections about the need for war in Iraq. This group met recently with National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice regarding the ways and means of this education.
Who is PNAC? Its members include:
* Vice President Dick Cheney, one of the PNAC founders, who served as Secretary of Defense for Bush Sr.;
* I. Lewis Libby, Cheney's top national security assistant;
* Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, also a founding member, along with four of his chief aides including;
* Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz, arguably the ideological father of the group;
* Eliot Abrams, prominent member of Bush's National Security Council, who was pardoned by Bush Sr. in the Iran/Contra scandal;
* John Bolton, who serves as Undersecretary for Arms Control and International Security in the Bush administration;
* Richard Perle, former Reagan administration official and present chairman of the powerful Defense Policy Board;
* Randy Scheunemann, President of the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq, who was Trent Lott's national security aide and who served as an advisor to Rumsfeld on Iraq in 2001;
* Bruce Jackson, Chairman of PNAC, a position he took after serving for years as vice president of weapons manufacturer Lockheed-Martin, and who also headed the Republican Party Platform subcommittee for National Security and Foreign Policy during the 2000 campaign. His section of the 2000 GOP Platform explicitly called for the removal of Saddam Hussein;
* William Kristol, noted conservative writer for the Weekly Standard, a magazine owned along with the Fox News Network by conservative media mogul Ruppert Murdoch.
The Project for the New American Century seeks to establish what they call 'Pax Americana' across the globe. Essentially, their goal is to transform America, the sole remaining superpower, into a planetary empire by force of arms. A report released by PNAC in September of 2000 entitled 'Rebuilding America's Defenses' codifies this plan, which requires a massive increase in defense spending and the fighting of several major theater wars in order to establish American dominance. The first has been achieved in Bush's new budget plan, which calls for the exact dollar amount to be spent on defense that was requested by PNAC in 2000. Arrangements are underway for the fighting of the wars.
The men from PNAC are in a perfect position to see their foreign policy schemes, hatched in 1997, brought into reality. They control the White House, the Pentagon and Defense Department, by way of this the armed forces and intelligence communities, and have at their feet a Republican-dominated Congress that will rubber-stamp virtually everything on their wish list.
The first step towards the establishment of this Pax Americana is, and has always been, the removal of Saddam Hussein and the establishment of an American protectorate in Iraq. The purpose of this is threefold: 1) To acquire control of the oilheads so as to fund the entire enterprise; 2) To fire a warning shot across the bows of every leader in the Middle East; 3) To establish in Iraq a military staging area for the eventual invasion and overthrow of several Middle Eastern regimes, including some that are allies of the United States.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Carol Lloyd Aug 25, 2008, 9:53am EDT
Oh almost forgot throw in Jeb Bush and Dan Quale to that membership list
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Sheryl O. Aug 25, 2008, 10:22am EDT
Two strong, intelligent, well-spoken men running for the two highest seats in our country? I couldn't be happier and cannot wait for my Obama/Biden bumper sticker.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Carol Lloyd Aug 25, 2008, 10:25am EDT
Sorry about that Melinda. My Brain moves faster than my fingers.....
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.