In watching Hillarys Concession this morning I found it interesting how the crowd progressed during her speech. Hillary arrived to a thunderous, Rock-Star, level of applause. In thanking her supporters she received a similar level of applause. But then as she put her support behind Obama, the applause began to decrease in intesity. There were even numerous boo's. I even saw one guy doing a double thumbs down. Then she went through a litany of issues and after each one stating that "This is why we need to support Barack Obama" With each issue the applause decreased. And as she closed and left the stage, there was a slight uptick, but the excitement had noticably faded.
Now while I do believe some of the Booers may come around to Obama, it is clear that there is going to be a large number of Hillarys 18 million that either vote McCain, or stay home and not vote. Either way this benefits McCain.
Had Hillary been the nominee, this election would have been another polarized Far Left vs. Far Right election. As it stands, despite voting records, I believe this election is going to be a battle for the middle. This is definately the year of the independent voter. The next 5 months is going to be interesting theatre to watch.
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Comments: 91
The boos were to be expected (from idiots) but everyone knew what they were there to hear - her endorsement of Obama.
Most (but not all) will see that allowing McCain to win will 1) be contradictory to the goals of the candidate they so avidly supported, and 2) the backlash against Hillary will end any future political career for her.
I got pins, but they have t-shirts, bumper stickers, baby, and pet wear.
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Some of us might have supported Obama until he fawned in front of AIPAC, leading many of us to believe he wants perpetual war and empire. Perpetual war, corruption, and empire are not sustainable.
A minority of Americans will vote against bankruptcy. I wonder if $7 gas will change anything? Conspicuous consumers will keep proudly driving their hummers, but who will wait on them? Will the rest of us be in jail, left to starve when the oil runs out?
Stay tuned to this exciting reality show. What a sad situation for a country founded by astute observers of corrupt regimes. The Constitution and Bill of Rights are in tatters, although the hemp they were allegedly written on is still good.
The Obama spend-o-meter is now up around $800 billion. And tax hikes on the rich won't pay for it. It's the middle class that will ultimately shoulder this fiscal burden in terms of higher taxes and lower growth.
newsmax
According to the National Taxpayers Union, Obama has proposed at least $287 billion a year in new government spending. He also co-sponsored a Senate bill to spend at least $845 billion a year to fight global poverty.
Obama would pay for these increases with much higher taxes.
AP
WASHINGTON - Republican John McCain says there will be no new taxes during his administration if he is elected president.
"No new taxes," the likely GOP presidential nominee said during a taped interview broadcast Sunday.
McCain told ABC's "This Week" that under no circumstances would he increase taxes
Im voting for my wallet.
Now, either the Clintons had a funeral to catch after her speech, or their attire and may I say lack of bashing McCain, should have sent a clear message to her supporters: Our nation is in mourning, vote for Hillary in 2012!
There is no good news for McCain.
To this I have to ask, what has George Bush done for your wallet? The Iraq War has cost us over $500 billion and counting (http://zfacts.com/p/447.html). The borrow-and-spend financing has cost trillions, which will come out of your pocket and the pockets of your children, your grandchildren, and perhaps a few more generations. The Bush policies have created conditions for the cost oil to go from less than $30 a barrel to over $135 a barrel during his term. The cost of gas from about $1.40 to aobut $4.00. The stock market has fluctuated up and down for years, which costs average tax payers like us tons of money while feeding the pockets of the speculators who play market games (puts, calls, shorts, etc.) that make them money when it goes down as when it goes up. Etc.
So I hope you do vote for your wallet. I also hope you take the time to see what McCain's "no new taxes" rhetoric really means, which is that he will continue the Bush tax cuts (which I don't think is necessarily a bad idea), but raise all the hidden taxes on the middle class and the poor that the Republicans are so good at not telling us about.
So again, vote for your wallet, but also vote with your intelligence. Look at the reality, not the spin.
She had to endorse Obama, but her supporters have minds of their own and we will most likely vote for experience over inexperience, character over lack of character.
Obama has some serious drawbacks.
Just a thought on strategy. One thing you have no control over by voting, or not voting, is that moderate Democrats (as opposed to progressive) are going to make some gains in Congress.
If you are like me, vote for the most centrist candidate that the Republicans have nominated in over 30 years. If you voted for Kerry, or Gore, then vote for Obama and be rest assured of a standard product line.
That's a good thing.
He has experienced various viewpoints of the human experience. He has shown the ability to separate a person from some of their opinions, and the conviction to draw the line when they go too far. His work as a community organizer cannot be overlooked. The idea of everyone giving what they can to their national and global communities, of lifting each other up is something we really need right now.
As for the goats hairy butt, if the US doesn't get back its self respect and again play a leadership role, that's exactly the view we're going to have as the world passes us by.
McCain can start writing his own concession speech right now. The American people have had enough of the Republi-cons and their misguided, moronic mismanagement of everything from foreign affairs to the economy. McCain may be the least worst choice they could have come up with, but he's no "maverick" anymore. He's looking more and more like a Bush clone every day. If he becomes President NOTHING will change materially in the disastrous slide the Bush/Cheney cabal have started this country on.
If you have any sense--even if you are a deeply disappointed Hillary supporter--you will have to conclude that you have no real choice but to vote for Obama, if you want, or expect, to see any kind of intelligent, visionary, and principled CHANGE in the way this country is governed.
It scares me because these powerful interests will stop at nothing to put Obama in the White House. Already they effectively disenfranchised voters in two states - Florida and Michigan in the Democratic primaries.
What will they get away with next?
Now under the Republican administration is overseeing a huge bubble in the commodities markets. This is forcing many Americans deeper into poverty, as they aren't even breaking even working a job after taxes, gas, food and other expenses. Is it a supply and demand issue, nope. Not according to the Saudi Oil Minister, who Say's he can't even find someone to pay him $110 a barrel for oil, and he has a plentiful supply ready for shipping. So much for supply side economics. It's unregulated speculation and the lack of government intervention.
The price of oil is not only affecting Gas, but electricity, food and every other product in the supply line. Where is the government? Taking care of the rich and their oil portfolio.
So if you want to sit at home, because your horse didn't win, that's your choice. See Ya in the soup lines.
Obama built his war chest from the $10, $25, $50 and $100 donations from the millions of little guys and young people who he motivated to work in politics for the first time in their lives.
If he is starting to get money from corporate interests, it's not because he is wooing them, they just see who the winner is going to be in November and they don't want to be left in cold.
Obama has proven time and again that he is not in anybodies pocket as opposed to the Dick Cheney's and gwbushies of the world. Halliburton, KBR anybody??? Mary Ann who the H*#L do you think has been calling the shots in this country for the past 8 years???? Don't you read anything other then the republicon talking points????
I just judge the party by it's actions. The genocide of children, poor, disabled, and sick, through the withholding of medical care. The use of propaganda to lead us into war. The revocation of constitutional rights. If you would like me to elaborate I will, but you seem to be able to communicate with no more than two sentences at a time, and are inaccurate when doing so.
The Nazis were elected in Germany. Those who elected them bought into the militarism, nationalism and imperialism, convinced of the natural superiority of the German people and their right to impose by military force German culture and control across the planet. Those who were not with them, were against them. Tell me how this idea differs from Bush and the neo-cons.
The War
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2008/05/28/2008-05-28_exaide_scott_mcclellan_rips_bushs_iraq_p.html
Health Care
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/23/us/23health.html
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/healthcare/2002-05-22-insurance-deaths.htm
http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/publications_show.htm?doc_id=367876
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/un-hits-back-at-us-in-report-saying-parts-of-america-are-as-poor-as-third-world-505967.html
There are so many authoritive articles. I can post many more.
The suspension of habeas corpus
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20070126.html
Illegal Search
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_warrantless_surveillance_controversy
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0928-20.htm
If the bloggers are any indication, Obama will win. There are way more Obama supporters than McSame supporters.
Why not take a poll here?
Where was the "pain" when everyone was online for the latest I-Phone, Nintendo, flat screen TV? Has life been that miserable for you. Seems to me that life got "bad" when this year, coincidentally, at the start of the campaign season when of course it is the liberal media's assignment to frighten everyone. Take a look at the electronic "toys" around the house, I bet most of you own two cars, relatively new, buy your kids the latest everything and our generally spoiled by this country's largess.
If you are whining about oil, you can blame the left. No drilling, no refineries=no domestic oil. As a result of our reliance on foreign oil, prices for everything has sky rocketed, Obama's solution is to of course, punish the corporations trapped by his own party's lack of oil legislation, oh and of course he will institute that nebulous "investment" in alternative energy.
But the zombie Obammies, want us to elect "hope and change", because, well just because, we need that change in mood, we need to feel better, we need mommy and daddy government to tell us all will be well. When Obama "solves" our problems by raising your taxes and screws up our nation, don't worry, republicans will be back in charge, for a very, very long time.
1. Health care: a complete government over haul will cost into the trillions.
2. Alternative energy: Billions in initial investment to support the change over in fueling cars and heating/cooling homes and businesses.
3. The war: should Obama pull out troops immediately as demanded by the left, should a wider conflict occur (likely), Obama has promised to go back in, surely at a higher cost of blood and treasure.
Not to mention the cost of much needed Social Security reform. So who pays? The ultra rich? Hardly, they have air tight tax shelters which allow them to sit back and laugh at the rest of us. Take Obama supporter, Warren Buffet, his multi-billions are tied up in charitable trusts and foundations, can't touch them. No, the rest of us will pay for this "vision" of feel good and hope, leaving us I expect, to want some "change" in 2012.
Many here love the word "nazi."
And nonpareil's (without portfolio) as well. Don't ask me why.
What do you for your reference, "The Force". or your collection of Hitler youth knives. Every source I quoted was authoritative, not based on some belief system like a super race. We don't love the word Nazi, it just best describes the NEO-Cons.
To the rest of you who wonder why people are using faith and hope. This is because the Republican party has stripped them for everything else.
Could anything have been paid for with the surplus left by the Clinton Administration and redistributed to the rich.
I also beg to differ on the ability for the government to tax, whoever it pleases. Not even the very rich can escape the IRS. There are no such thing as an air tight shelter as law regulates tax shelters, and as many a inmate can testify, an illegal tax shelter may work for a while, but sooner or later it ends.
Health care, your response is to do nothing, very creative, but the innocent will continue to die.
Social Security Reform- Here's an idea, have the government pay back the money it has stolen, and exclude SS from the general budget.
Take the following assumptions and run it through the Blomberg 401k calculator
$25,000 annual salary starting at age 18
assume employee and employer contributions
2 1/2% raise annually
apply the S&P average return of 7%
Retirement at age 65
Total $1,392,000
So where is the money? Why is there need for reform? Just quit stealing the money!
Everything you posted was an opinion and not backed up by a single source. Please post links.
What unit were you with, and where did you serve?
I understand your assertion regarding those who have smelled death, and those who haven't. However, I hope that you would admit that one needn't have been in a firefight to have an opinion on War. Many a Marine, though well-trained, has faced enemy fire "for the first time." And, how many of our "Commanders-in-Chief" have been in combat? So, please, don't insist that a person must be a Soldier in a combat situation to have an opinion. That, my fellow Warrior, is Bullshit. You want to pick a fight; pick it with me.
Now, let me give you mine: Damn right I'm pissed about this War. I'm pissed that the Greatest Country in the world didn't go in to win. I'm pissed that this Great Country didn't give them 3 days warning, set up refugee camps to help those who wanted this done, and flattened that fucking place. That is how you fight a War.
Why don't you tell me what YOU know about fighting a War.
Now, tell me what you know about War.
You certainly cannot argue that health care reform, alternative energy reform, and social security reform isn't going to cost anything, can you? And you will be surprised how democrats define the "rich".
Barack Obama and John McCain will be presenting their economic platforms on CNBC, tonight at 8:00. Let's see which candidate "skates" around the tax and spend topic.
The Bush economic policies have contributed to slow growth, a mortgage crisis with consequences that have reverberated around the globe, and a downward spiraling economy at home. Problem is the ultra-rich don't notice we are already in a recession, probably because they don't have to worry about meeting basic needs like food, shelter, health care and energy.
The failed Republican policies McCain supports have led to the largest government and the biggest debt in American history -- so much for fiscal responsibility!
McCain's ultra-competitive spirit, and his determination to stay until we "win" in Iraq, will create even more furor in the Islamic world where our very presence inspires terrorism.
Hillary Clinton fought hard against the Bush/McCain policies --I'm confident her supporters, at least the ones who believe in what she stands for -- will support Obama.
Thoughtful, as usual.
Your comment on "economic assumptions" was, I believe, spot-on. The assumption that Government produces ANYTHING baffles me. Therefore, when Obama, or anyone else, "promises" to "give" to the American people, it surely WILL come from somewhere; predominately, from the entrepreneurial and productive middle-class. Punitive taxation designed to fund these "promises" merely then becomes a tool of re-distribution, with the hardest-working to foot the "bill." I cannot subscribe to that point of view. Marxists, however, can. But, Kay, perhaps after we have recieved our "free" healthcare and an Ivy League education, we could then contribute a few 'hours of community service."
It was also uplifting for me that You understood my words about War. It is an ugly business; it is a horrible business. And, one should NEVER engage in it without a mindset of crushing defeat, with full force brought to bear, in the shortest possible time-frame. Sadly, in it's raw form, it has been said that War is designed to "smash things and kill people." I quite agree with You; a "politically-correct" War is antithetical to the concept of War, itself. And, should never be waged.
War, is about destroying the enemies will to fight through the use of over whelming force. This means killing everything that moves. Daisy Cutters and Atomic Weapons. The military is not trained to police or baby sit, but to kill and destroy. The Iraq was and is a waste of man power in the war on terror, as Saddam had nothing to do with the war on terror and posed no imminent threat. Iran was and is, a very different animal, and is the driving force behind much of this religious war we have become involved with. Afghanistan, we had the high ground. The taliban was offering shelter and aid to Bin Laden, and they were given fair warning, to give up the a##hole.
I have an extensive background in finance. Tax Shelters are part of the tax code. A Trust is a tax shelter and any American can have a trust, a 401K, An IRA. Having an offshore account to hide income, and using a debit card to access it, is not a tax shelter, it is income tax evasion. This is my point. Tax shelters can be given, and they can be taken away, it is a matter of law, and none are air tight.
Whose going to pay for it? The misery index just hit it's highest level since 1993. So the lower and middle class are pretty much tapped out. As a matter of fact, they are worse off since the great depression, so you can't get it there. So if the money has been taken away from the lower and middle class, where has it gone? I think the middle class should pay much less in taxes. I think the middle class should not have to kite credit cards to live from payday to payday. So let's leave the middle class out.
Money doesn't evaporate, so who took the money from the middle class. It wasn't the poor, because the misery index is at a 15 year high, so it must be the rich. So why not raise taxes or just take back some of the tax breaks/shelters from the rich. You don't build a bridge in a day, but you never build it, if you just sit on your ass and say it can't be done.
The lower and middle class have already paid too high a cost with lives, in addition to the attempts to wipe us out financially. The middle class is being ripped apart. Poverty is really what we should be talking about, as that is where we're all headed.
Some of the comments crack me up. I have faith that people will see the light, get this idiot out of office, and then work on re-building the country that used to be an icon to the world. We need to elect Obama--and the world needs to see that the American people feel that way.
What a mess this one has gotten us into. I have no idea why so many misguided people stand by him. Ignorance is bliss, eh?
The middle class will suffer in any tax increase because the rich will not. As stated earlier, small businesses will fold, workers will be laid off, the general economy will suffer. If the rich stop spending, stop building, stop investing, and stop hiring, who do you think will suffer?
We are so spoiled in this country that it took gas reaching 4.00 a gallon to get us thinking about leaving our precious SUV's. Every kid has an I-Pod, an I-Something, and of course designer sneakers. Maybe it's good to be "ripped apart", maybe we can concentrate on our priorities instead of the useless nonsense that makes us "happy".
What unit were you with, and where did you serve?
Mark-John K., Jun 9, 2008, 9:16pm EDT "
1st Battalion, 3d Marines Dai Do
What? Your first sentence is a mere repeat of "my" definition of War. No comment on my statements regarding firefight's and opinions? You wage a worn and tired old argument, and highlight mine, simultaneously. Have you read even a word of my comment? ...like talking to a stone...
Trish-
Although TWO, here, have clearly explained the effect of higher taxes (Obama) on the lower- and middle-class, you do the exact same thing, as above. What?
Kay, forgive my ignorance; but, is there a NEW form of debate that I am unaware of?
Trish-
Nice camera...
"Hoo-ahh"...and Thank You for Your Service.
"Hoo-ahh"... Back at You.
I read your post and agree with you definition of war. I think where we parted ways was, the unnecessary use of our troops. I think a CIC, should weigh carefully the loss of a single life before deploying troops into combat. Having watched death up close and personal, and dreaming about it every night since then, I just feel the President should never lie, or use propaganda, to use our brave military, who are always willing to serve and die, regardless of the reason. As Marines, we never questioned orders, we just killed the enemy, whoever it happened to be at the time.
Thanks for the reply. And the "whoop."
I have said that if we deploy Troops, it should be for ONE thing only: to kick the shit out of the enemy, and RIGHT NOW, PERIOD. Where we disagree, Time, is with your assertion that Bush "lied," and committed Troops for a lie. I am absolutely ASTOUNDED that you believe this to be true. I do not. McNamara should have been hung for the way that he prosecuted the War in Vietnam; but you need to think about what influenced him to do so. It was the fucking Leftist Commie Liberals. Time, you know this to be true. Let's not start behaving that way here...or the same thing is going to happen to our Boy's. Do you want THAT?
"OOO-Rah!" You wore the "rags' for 21 years? Well, Sir, THANK YOU for your service. I know that you don't talk; maybe I can persuade you to do "some" soon.
Amen.