What can one think of a state that has recently tolerated pictures of lynchings on the walls of its rural bars?
It seems there's a good reason why Obama doesn't expect to win in West Virginia and why Clinton does. Neither says exactly what it is, but based on the very little that I know, it just has to be the high level of racial prejudice that exists down there.
In the early nineties, my daughter drove from Boston to West Virginia on several occasions for her employer. She told me that she saw that type of picture in the one and only bar she went into. She said "that was enough" for her.
Not long before that, my son-in-law married a girl from West Virginia. He told my wife and I that he had seen pictures of lynchings on the walls of the local bars in the area where his in-laws lived.
Is it possible that these two people happened to enter the only bars in the state with such pictures? I think not.
It doesn't matters whether this type of situation continues to exist, and I certainly don't know that it does. The point is that any society that tolerated such displays, even in the recent past, is a racially bigoted society.
That doesn't mean that everyone in West Virginia is intolerant, necessarily. It does mean that a majority of the people in the rural areas where these bars were located just had to be racists, or such displays would not have been tolerated. And whether they like it or not, this reflects on every resident of the state.
The situation also raises questions about the possible impact of racism in other heavily rural, largely white states in the region, such as Kentucky, which is also holding its primary tomorrow, and is another state in which Clinton has an "insurmountable lead," according to Obama.
The recent existence of such hateful displays makes me sick, and - in my mind - it renders the results of tomorrow's West Virginia primary less than meaningless in terms of the important issues that face this nation today.
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Comments: 120
The setting for "Deliverance" was Georgia!
I'll have you know that most of the good folks of West Virginia are fine, law-abiding, and decent people. They work hard, love their families, don't ask for much, and very rarely hang African-Americans these days. If it turns out that Obama actually does take the state and win the primary, I think you will owe an awful lot of good-hearted Mountaineers a very big apology................
brave enough to be honest,
brave enough to stand up for what is right,
brave enough to defend the downtrodden,
brave enough to stand up to those who would bully,
brave enough to defend someone who is helpless,
brave enough to teach those who do not understand what is right and just .....
and the odds are, that each and everyone of those brave Americans have had a quality education......!!!!!!!!! Ignorance is NOT bliss....
Any time I have found myself in an area that did not focus on quality education for all I have found, bullies who drink too much too soon in their young lives, are raised with a brute "survival" force and taught many forms of discrimination from religion to skin color.
We will not conquer entirely the bigot or racist...but it is my sincere belief, that the majority can be changed merely by providing the same quality education for all....starting with the pre schools, and head start programs...Teaching each child they are special and can learn and make a difference....
It has always been my opinion, that having the best schools and learning centers only in the wealthy neighborhoods....because of their tax structure...we will not advance our society to a higher level. . . Teachers are important and for every bad one out there, there are two good dedicated ones who want to teach...and that is another issue that goes with the "quality wealthy education" neighborhoods...they pay a higher salary and guess what...they attract the better teacher....its a vicious cycle, but it can either allow bigotry to fester or disappear....but there is a price to pay...
> even in the recent past, is a racially bigoted society.
Oh come on ... bull, what are we going to do. There is some minor
amount of ignorant people who are racists, and they are losers and
going out of style. They have little political power, they have little
economic power or they would be smart and have jobs, and they
cannot agree even as well the Democrats ... so what is there to
do about them. Lock them all up, we do not have the cells. We
have to tolerate the existence of stupid people ... otherwise you
would not be getting so many Gather points to supplement your
social security, Dave!
Neither race or gender should matter, but they do. Quite frankly, I finding mentioning drawings of lynchings barroom walls an appeal to whites to prove they are not bigots themselves by voting for the black candidate. Whites who will not vote for the white candidate because her opponent is black represent another form of racism, a strange form, that gives new meaning to the term "reverse racism" but it is racism nonetheless. The sexist label could also be applied to women who will not vote for Hillary because she is not a male.
Of course, I have to admit that bars that are rowdy, whether rural or urban, can be pretty scary and raunchy places.
Normal people of all colors have come a long way in the last decade or two with regard to racial tolerances. I'd hate to think a whole state was stuck in the '40's.
Now how you equate that to any of the trash talk below, I can only guess it is because your lying feelings are hurt by the truths I have pointed out about you on that other thread ... poor boy.
"... anti-racist comments here when over on another board you are supporting what amounts to genocide in your clever smart remarks, you hypo-f-ing-critical useless idiot.
bruce k., May 13, 2008, 3:49am EDT "
Don't be such an ignorant juvenile brucey (apology to all "other" juveniles of course) ... :-)
You want to put WVA down and how can you judge someone, when you havent even been here...? To me you are trying to point the finger of guilt to us, so if you dont vote for Obama you are racist. We are smarter than this....Say what you must about our state but we are a proud state, and will not be used or forced into scare tactics.
By the way, I hope Hilly does win in WVA over Obama. I never thought I would say that but Obama wrote off this state from the beginning .
I really have to wonder about this article . . . it smacks of exploiting the "race card", which most certainly works in favor of Mr. Obama, far more than against. I dare say, if you took away his "black" racial heritage, I would not know his name, and neither would you, most likely. And I kinda doubt them boys speak very highly of women, as a rule . . .
Racism exists everywhere, Dave. You show your own prejudice against rural people with this article, and therefore, are just as guilty of stereotypical behavior as those folks in the "Lynching Bar". This is really below what I've come to expect from you. I'm very disappointed.
Lock them all up, we do not have the cells''
Which is it bruce, just minor amounts, or so many we don't have the cells to lock them up. That's the great thing about America. You can either be a good tolerant citizen, or a worthless bigoted redneck, and no one can can do a thing about it. That is unless you cross the line into lawlessness.
''are you saying because there are some rednecks in North Carolina bars the whole country is tained with racism?''
He bruce, my state of North Carolina, voted ''last'' week. And we voted ''overwhelmingly'' for Obama.
''There's no more racism in West Virginia, or Alabama, or Mississippi than you'll find on the Northside of Chicago, or in Boston,.....''
David, that is not true. Unless you are talking about black racism towards whites. I think that Dave is only talking about white racism towards blacks.
Linda, ''He sees us all as bitter old white people clinging to guns and religion.''
I can see why you support hillary. You probably cling to your guns and religion. Go clinton, right into the past!!!
Here in the the mountains of southern California, what someone here called the "bastion of tolerance", just two weekends ago I heard a camper from Canada rant on and on about Obama being an 'ignorant loser from a rich Black family'. He said he had employed young Black men and couldn't teach them anything, but he didn't have any problem in teaching the same things to young white men. He sees all people of color as having lesser intelligence. He wouldn't acknowledge that most minorities don't have access to the same learning assests as Whites.
His wife said he listens to programs on the radio that have his own opinions. He is completely ignorant of Obama's true background, because he doesn't want to believe anything good about a black man. He is a gun-toting truck driver who looked at me in disbelief when I told him that Obama was raised by a poor white single mother in Hawaii, not in a big city ghetto.
When I lived in Hawaii in 1964 I noticed the very tolerancant attitude of people. If there was racial discrimination in Hawaii at that time that I was aware of, it was by Japanese mothers who seemed sure they were better at everything than women of other races. I doubt Obama learned much about white bigotry against Blacks until he moved to mainland USA. Because his father was from Kenya and abandoned his wife and son, Obama's life growing up was in the culture of his white mother. He isn't handicapped by feelings of inferiority that is inflicted on many African-Americans by white bigots. He has excelled in whatever he attempted in his life so far.
I see Obama as a person of rare intelligence who has the knowledge, charisma and leadership ability to lead this country back to what most Americans want for it.
Carol, I agree with you. Even though we have come a long way from the times when minorities could be assaulted and killed without worry in certain parts in the country, we still have a long way to go.
It is sad that there are still individuals on both sides, that tend to look at color as a negative or postive and vote accordingly.
(Within just a couple of sentences of Dave's article, Jerry, my memory, too, was instantly thrown to the film "Deliverance").
Without actual photographs of the commenters here, and unless the commenter reveals his/her race or nationality origin (or sex), we readers can only presume the race or sex or religion or historical background of the participating responders to this article.
For the most part, the men and women of gather are reasonably intelligent, (some more than others). We reside in all corners of the U.S. and most of us have traveled to areas of the U.S. (and the rest of the world) that reflect the various attitudes of religion, race, political preference, etc. that make our nation unique to other nations. Upon becoming adults (and barring any major catastrophe that may change our course of life) we choose where we live for a variety of reasons; but always focusing on the communal environment of the "nest" we decide upon.
"…in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, and insure domestic tranquility…." Hmmmm. Consider those beautiful words of wisdom, and set them along side these words;
Galatians 5:14 "For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."
In consideration and respect of these simple phrases, I'll bite my tongue and hold back the words I'd like to spew at you, Bruce K. for the horrible things you have said to members of your gather community.
It's still good to be a White Redneck in West Virginia, where the Yellow Dog Democrats, because that Republican Lincoln beat the South and freed the slaves, are still king. They never heard of LBJ and what he did either, as they're still Yellow Dog Democrats, not realizing there are none other left.
That is the first time that I have heard of something like that. I agree that racism has no place in todays society. It is a shame that everyone just can't learn to get along with each other.
I live in the South and I have always tried my best not to be prejudice against anyone. However, it does make it hard sometime when a race of people try and force themselves down my throat. It just steams me that a race of people start flooding our country and instead of them having to learn our language we have to learn theirs. Then the benefits that we have worked for and paid on all our working lives are now being given away to them and then when someone who has paid for these benefits needs help they don't qualify for one reason or another. Not the illegals they just go in apply and wait for the checks.
Anyone who wants to live here should have to do just as everyone has had to do in the past, work for so long and learn OUR language and go through the proper process that the country says you have to do to become a citizen.
It really does present a new LOW for politicians to use racism to boost their ratings higher than the one/ones running against them. But, if you look at the World today and you really think about it, nothing, should really surprise us.
UpScaleInteriorDesigns.com
Haters and racists will always need a group to blame for their own shortcomings and failures and this is often expressed in the reason behind who they promote and back in the political arena.
Unfortunately, I believe that there is ''no'' leader that can eliminate racism in America. Until we have a superb education system that interest's all the people, this subject will be haunting us for a long time.
Interesting.
Well I hear the youngest voters are much more past this stuff. Good for them. Take over the country, young people. You got my vote.
You have to look up the entire state and their behavior. Racism is ignorance and Dave makes his case.
Yes, there is racism in CA, Chicago, and Boston. And yes we've come a long way. But these are facts.
Let's look at the facts, people. Remember Idaho, Utah, Delaware, Maine, North Dakota. These are some of the whitest states in the country and Obama won them. Nobody is suggesting that the caucasian (hate the term white) population of the US is racist. Some states have more racism, or sometimes simply prejudice than others. WV and Kentucky would make the top 10 and there is no denying of that.
Now, I would make the analysis based on EDUCATION. 17% of the pop of WV has a college degree, the lowest in the NATION. That to me explains more why Obama has no chance. Now, if you can show that college degree and racism are corrolated (Im no sure it is but if I had to guess, I would say yes), then we are both saying the same thing.
Anybody knows (college degree - racism data corrolation)?
Thanks, Dave.
The Question for me (if voting landslides to Clinton as predicted) is — knowing that she can't win the nomination, many of those votes are essentially againstObama not for Hillary. This would support your racists thesis unless there's another reason they're voting against him.
A 17% group with a college degree overlooks one thing, the highest rated State is not that much higher than that. College grads are a minority.
I repeat.
So this is how one half of the Democratic party is to be portrayed.
What is the EEO Commision? I think I.ve heard it mentioned, brfore, but do not have much, knowledge of what it is, or it's purpose.
I guess I could just look it up.
I'm just asking. I don't have a dog in this fight because I'm not a Democrat.
But just because there is something posted in a bar doesn't mean that most of the community approves of such a posting. I'm sure there are many good folks in West Virginia who have never been in bars and who would have no idea what is posted in them...without someone talking about it.
My brother was one of just a few white men "allowed" in a black bar in Pittsburgh. In his sober moments when we were able to talk about serious things, he told me about some of the things that were said and what was on the walls there. Quite racist, let me assure you of that.
Dave spoke a lot of truth. People who lived through the sixties are JUST not past this stuff. By people, I mean all of them. You've got the Rev Wrights from the African American communities who just are still in the past. Places like WV, Kentucky, will catch up last, no doubt. I don't think calling them names will help however. How do we bring them in?
A few in WV will base their vote on race. That has occurred in every other primary/caucus. I'm going to diverge with you (and the pundits) on this one, Dave, I think more are going to vote for the person they feel better relates to the "working man". Whether real or perception, I am not sure Obama has adequately communicated his "everyman" roots as yet.
And yes, of course there are pockets of racists elsewhere in the country, such as South Boston, near where I grew up. However, even in South Boston which was one of the few areas that the government failed in its efforts to introduce school integration, such pictures would not be tolerated. They also would not be tolerated in any other civilized area that I've lived in for that matter.
If a bar were to display such despicable pictures in Boston or here in California, there is no doubt that a wave of public opinion would overwhelm it like an earthquake-spawned tsunami.
Wouldn't it be more appropriate to direct your dismay at the situation, which may well still exist, rather than at this article, which is simply the messenger of information some of you apparently feel should just be swept under the rug?
If I lived in West Virginia I'd be doing everything an activist could do to eradicate such filth from the state, especially since I would feel that it reflected on me as a resident. For any of you that do live there and that might take offense to this article, why haven't you done something about it, or have you?
Good article Dave. Here is a great read for all of you
"The answers also revealed which groups within society continued to harbor racial resentment. With the help of Harvard doctoral student Scott Winship, I looked at the levels of racial resentment in ANES data from 1988, 1992, and 2000 (the questions were omitted in 1996). What Winship and I found was that resentment was highest among males rather than females, the middle class rather than the wealthy or poor, those lacking a college degree, those who worked in skilled or semi-skilled blue collar jobs or as laborers, and residents of small towns in the Midwest and South. Does that profile sound familiar? It's more or less a description of the white working-class voters who have spurned Obama and with whom John Kerry and Al Gore had trouble. "
The Big Race
This article is featured on realclearpolitics.
To deny rampant racism/prejudice in such places is denying the obvious. There are many studies done to back this up. This article goes over them.
Further reading:
"Some of these have to do with abilities. A 1995 study found that voters believe black politicians "lack competence on major issues." Other stereotypes relate to ideology. Several studies have shown that if subjects compare a black and white candidate with roughly equal political positions, they will nevertheless see the black candidate as more liberal. Obama is already vulnerable to charges of inexperience, and, after Wright surfaced, he fell prey to an ideological stereotype as well. "
GET IT? If they have the same positions the black guy is seen as more liberal. Hmmm, have we seen this in this election?
Read the article. A conservative's words not mine. Merely his words. He is just pulling out study after study.
Maryanne
But, If I vote for her because Obama is black then I am a racist. I get it and I agree with you. Racism dapends on your motivation.
So, how does Dave know "that a majority of the people in the rural areas where these bars (that showed pictures of lynchings) were located just had to be racists". Can he read their minds?
There is such a thing as overt rascism, such as expressing the belief that a group of people is bad solely because of their race, and there is covert racism where you try to equate an oppressive racial group with an oppressed racial group. I hope that was not a backhanded racist comment.
Regardless of the candidates assets, there are many people here in Louisiana would not vote for a black candidate, just because he's black.
I admire your guts for publishing this.
Yes, racism is, sadly, alive and well; and it is still in West Virginia. If anyone doesn't believe that, all they need to do is go there and start talking to various locals.
Jared P. rightly points out that racism is most rampant among blue collar workers; as opposed to being mostly among the rural poor. From the stories I've heard from locals, you could blame most regional racism on the corporations of the 1920s, who would truck in train loads of cheaper laborers (immigrants and former slaves) when local workers began demanding better compensations. There's a lot of resentment that builds when whole groups of people are brought in to replace you in your job because they will work for less than you and your neighbor.
At the root of racist attitudes we find greed.
Hate's never going away. Our nature has taught us that being bad is easier than being good. If you want to start pointing fingers at true haters, start with the muslim scum who chop-off American heads. Next to them, your "sickening" WV boys are saints.
Once again you got um talking...you are getting pretty good at that..!!!!!.
Sexism is alive and well too.
"The colored guy." Guess they did not hear OBAMA up there. Thanks for your vote, you sexist, bigot!
It goes back to an educational system that is not committed to the best education possible for all Americans and it's that way to keep the walls of status quo in place for both black and white. Without a poor education system, who will provide cheap labor in America and be satisfied with a health care system that is bankrupting America one family at a time?
Ignorance works for the status quo and that's to keep control over the masses- no matter if the mass is black or white.
One in four Clinton voters and about one in 10 Obama voters said race was an important factor in their vote.
25% of Clinton voters. Add the liars. Anyone still thinks race is not a factor in voting? Still think voters vote on the issues only.
Good job Dave!
JRB, building good schools for your own race, because the government won't, is racist? Interesting.
Jared, sometimes it's not race but religion or even local tradition such as in Utah rural areas.
Alan, if many areas have people still mentally in the sixties then how is Rev. Wright wrong to say that there are still people who want him dead because of his race, that the black race earns less and prospers less than whites and that mores are in place that keep it that way even at the Federal level?
Personally I think it's more of a rich against the poor thing, class warfare due to greed and the belief that someone has to lose for others to win.
So much defense of WV. I think Dave has a good question: if the majority are so good, why do they allow this adoration of lynchings to go on? The picture may have been hung by the owner but he's catering to his clientel or his business would fail. Obviously, the majority are in favor of, or uncaring about, the photos.
I've moved around, mostly in the western half of the US, from small town to small town. If we can speak in generalizations for a moment, for the most part people who live in small towns are thirty to fifty years behind the more urban parts of the country. This can be good and bad. Most in these areas are happy with the way of life of the 50's. Not so focused on "stuff."
Unless it's a place lots of outsiders want to move, which creates diversity and dilutes the mores a bit, in general they reject most outsiders of any ilk but especially other ethicnic and racial individuals. I firmly believe ignorance coupled with family teaching and tradition creates fear and therefore hatred of those different from us. Education and experience create curiousity, openmindedness and finally understanding and acceptance.
Therefore, my grandmother's addage that if persons "knew better, they would do better" is true.
I've lived in Lake Michigan small towns in Michigan and Indiana, was an Anglo minority in a small Hispanic town in Northern New Mexico, (that one was an eye opener and cured me of racism) lived in LA during the first Watts riots, lived in small red-neck towns in the 4 corners area of Colorado and New Mexico, lived in a small SW Nebraska cowboy town, lived in a small religious town in SW Utah as the "outsiders" came in and trippled its size. My generalizations fit all of them. Small town = around 6,000-10,000 population.
These are the people who traditionally still vote in the US, while other groups such as urban poor, single mothers, high school and college students, and minorities have to be targeted in registration drives. Sadly, those traditional voters are more likely to be single issue voters, and their votes are driven by their traditions, religion, and fears of people they don't understand. they tend to be suspicious of change.
What are we going to do for the next six months?
God Bless America...
But getting back on track here, there are countless stuffed animals of all kinds all over the walls, countless pictures though of the historic old days showing the beginnings of area civilization, mostly involving rail road building, ranching and logging, that only began when the white man came to the area in the late 1800's (and probably shot some of the Local Indians rather than hanging them), I digress again ... but I know that such displays are more of a historic museum type of showing than anything else ... and probably the same in WV ... which does not "necessarily" equate with present thinking ...but then ... ???
But I also know that a large portion of the folks around here think much like the ones mentioned in WV ... so in that regard, racism still exists, and probably the percentages differ little between the back woods and the big cities when you get right down to it ...
IMnsHO. (subject to change).
No way a woman can run the military. I guess being the Chief takes a body part that women don't have? So, the next logical thought is...what physiological body part IS it that is needed to "run" the military? He went on to say, "And a black man can't run the country." So...what part of derma pigment defines the ability to think, to reason, to be DIPLOMATIC?
So, I sat there, momentarily stunned into speechlessness at this lack, exhibited in a friend's spouse. Therefore, I would concur that "under-education" is indeed the Achilles' weakness in our system, ergo, in our people.
I'm for Obama in '08, because I am ready for a serious, far reaching change. Racism and Sexism are alive and well in our society. We can, and need to, strive to overcome these issues on a daily basis. We can, and we need to reach a place where all HUMANS of any gender, race or creed, are considered only that, HUMANS; and will be judged only by their HUMANITY.
Peace,
Wilka
Why are the White West Virginians being labeled...because of the color of their' skin?
I've talked to many people about why they are voting for Obama to a man (or woman) all have said unashamedly...because he's black.
I used to think you were Christian . . . I'm not sure anymore. It seems so utterly un-Christ-like to simply assume the worst of something as vague as placing the word 'black' in quotes, and then slander a person as a racist in public because of it. I did it because I have seen a picture of the man, and he was brown. I don't go for the "one sixteenth" rule, or whatever it was. People are whatever color they are to me, and very few we call "black" in this country, are not also "white", from what I have read. This whole race thing is silliness in my eyes, and I don't wish to partake of such things. If you think that is wrong; Tough shit.
"Yup, he's a lucky guy all right. Black dude with all the doors of opportunity thrown wide open for him."
You see, in my eyes, that is a racist comment. You called the man one race, when we know he is not of just that one implied racial heritage. Why do you do this creepy thing? Are you an adherent to the one sixteenth rule?
The point is that we shouldn't be calling the people of any State racist just because they prefer another candidate. I know that there are people that are voting for a candidate because of their' color or sex. That doesn't necessarily translate into racism or sexism. You may feel that the time has arrived to have a woman or a black in the White House...there's nothing wrong with that...but, it's a rationale that I wouldn't use. Now NOT voting for a person because of color or sex is a definite...'ism'.
The Obama people talk about bringing people together...not being divisive. Well, refering to people of an entire State as racist or backwoods, backward hillbillies is pretty divisive to me...and elitist.
I figure this is all about blunting the impact of the lose that Obama was expected to endure in West Virginia, well, Hillary took a fall in North Carolina. Se la vie...you win some, you lose some. Take your' knocks with grace and move on to the next State where hopefully you'll be able to get your' positive message across. Did Hillary lose in the Carolinas because of race...possibly...did Obama lose in Weat Virginia because of race...possibly...but, hey it comes with the territory. I'd like to give these people the benefit of the doubt and think that they took other factors into consideration.
As for my brain...well, there isn't much there...so whether I left it at the door or not is of no great moment.
These people are in the Democratic party, and you NEED them to win.
Six months. Tick, tick, tick...