Excerpts of Pastor Wright famous "God Damn America" speech are the fodder for RW extremists to challenge Obama's fitness and credibility. As I first read the excerpts three thoughts occurred:
1,t since this was published as a RW attack the facts must be either false or at least distorted. Dishonesty is the method of Republican politics.
2, the words were so outlandish that under the best of circumstances they were inflammatory and poorly chosen.
3, regardless of the validity, what in fact did Obama have to do with this and how does it realistically reflect his ability to lead the nation.
The first step is to review the sermon entirely, not excerpts. The sermon was 40 minutes long. Researching the web I found CNN's "Anderson Cooper 360 blog" and article by Roland Martin detailing the sermon. For those honestly seeking truth it behooves us to have a RATIONAL, non partisan discussion.
After reviewing the entire text I found Wright focused upon his view of truth, lies and hypocrisy in American and world government throughout history. He challenges the use of Christianity to foster war, any war. He says, "y'all looking to the government for only what God can give. A lot of people confuse God with their government." Is this true? Can we as Americans be so presumptuous to stake a claim on God's will and feel it our duty to impose it, regardless what the Bible says? Unfortunately, this "weakness" of faith and perception is a curse of Christianity since Constantine. But it is neither Christian nor Biblical. I would love for anyone, using the New Testament, to prove me wrong.
Wright goes on with his personal conviction that our government has not fulfilled the promises of the founders that "all men are created equal." This failure means "governments lie." I don't know about that. His is a simplistic view of the historical complexity of the Constitution and the labors and compromises made to create it. True, it was a white male document, but it was within the context of a white male world. The founders who abhorred slavery chose to keep blacks in temporary bondage and form a nation, rather than risk losing the new nation to be divided. It was an evil compromise and there is no way to define the true Christian morality of it. Did God honor that choice? Can that be shown Biblically? I think the founders were right, but not in light of Christianity. Wright does not exceed his mandate to pose such a view. He makes partisan attack against the Supreme Court put in place under conservative Presidents. Again, given his view, that's his right.
His claims of government lies: America knew Japan would attack Pearl Harbor. I've heard that here on Gather, but I cannot find ANY convincing evidence and can find much that disputes the claim.
The government lied about the Gulf of Tonkin. True. There is much to support that claim.
Nelson Mandela's imprisionment and CIA involvement. True. We actively supported the South African government against the ANC who was receiving backing from the Cubans and Russians.
The Tuskeegee experiment. True.
Vietnam era bombing of Laos and Cambodia. True.
Iran-Contra. True. Republican rehabilitation of the liars and convicted criminals. True.
HIV creation by the government for the mass genocide of blacks. Preposterous, irresponsible and indefensible slander. Show me the proof.
He returns again to the continued disenfranchisement of blacks, even after the victory in the Civil War and jumps back and forth thru time always focusing upon the disparity of between liberal and conservative government in the fortunes of blacks. Then comes a laundry list of hypocrisy, from black slavery to Japanese interment, the American Indian holocaust and end with poverty, focusing upon several wealthy blacks, Oprah, Colin Powell, Tiger Woods, and of course, wealth white men. Tis here he questions: "The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three strike law and then wants us to sing God Bless America. Naw, naw, naw. Not God Bless America. God Damn America! That's in the Bible. For killing innocent people. God Damn America for treating us citizens as less than human. God Damn America as long as she tries to act like she is God and she is Supreme."
There you have it. Poorly chosen, inflammatory words to convey the truth that America as a nation cannot presume to violate the core of Christian belief and claim to march forth to war and discrimination under the "blessings of God." I am afraid from the Biblical perspective Wright can make his claim truthfully.
Can Obama legitimately embrace the man Wright and, as a secular leader, disavow his moral indictment of American history? Can any President who swears fealty to the nation upon a Bible do the same? Evidently, yes. Viewed in context this is a non-issue. Wright as a Christian Pastor is within his Biblical right to scourge the morality of those who claim Christ at the end of a bayonet or while engaged in racial or economic discrimination, just a Jesus was within his rights to eject the money changers from the temple. Obama as a leader and Constitutional scholar must render unto Caesar his due while striving for a higher moral good, as every worthy President has done since the founding.
recommend this
email
print
link to this page
Comments: 47
If you lie about one thing you will lie about another.
Obama is a liar. You do not support and subscribe to a pastor who makes racial comments for twenty years simply because you view him as "an old uncle" who makes inflamatory staements.
Give us a break.
Please listen to or read the full sermons. You may find that you still have the same opinion, but only after you have educated yourself can you offer an informed opinion.
Note also that there are other YouTube videos that show how certain news organizations have played seconds-long snippets of 20-45 minute sermons in order to highlight the inflammatory portions out of context. In at least one infamous case, they show a few seconds of video that they then use to vilify Wright...except the full sermon clearly shows he was quoting someone else. Furthermore, within the full context, the offending piece is fairly tame.
If more people would pass judgment only after they are informed we might find they less often violate God's gift of tolerance.
Jesus ran out the money changers from "His Father's House" because it was place of prayer, not a "den of thieves." Wright challeges the use of Christ to wage war and discrimination. What's your problem?
From the segments of the sermon presented above, the offending phrase has been taken out of context in its presentation in the media. In the given context it is certainly not offensive to me. One would have to desire to find something offensive to take it as offensive in its context.
Under this accepted definition I find it hard to call Wright a "racist."
Get used to it. You will hear a lot more of this crap before November.
Moonbat alert.
As for Pastor/Obama relation, it was a very close relationship... and the pastor is clearly racist and anti-American. Screw 'em both. Don't need liberal blather to try and smooth things over. Then you got Hillary the liar. This is good stuff.
Anyway say something cohernant and relevent to the discussion.
HELLO! It isn't about race. HELLO! It is about running the country. It is about NOT running the country into the ground. It is about integrity. Personal and political integrity and strength to do the right things, for the right reasons...and to NOT MAKE WAR on other civilians of other countries for the profit of a few, fat cats with deep pockets.
Hello! Hello! Hello! (((Echo!!!)))
Is anyone listening?
Wilka
Yeah... you fit in well with the moonbat crowd. How you can defend the pastor is beyond me.
If one says that Jesus (who is black according to the friendly pastor) teaches him to love his enemies, prefaced by statements that this country is run by rich white people, and those people created HIV to kill blacks, and all the other inflammatory remarks he is clearly a racist. He is speaking AGAINST European White People. How am I supposed to interpret that?
There is nothing intellectual about your article. All it amounts to is spin. Embrace your race hating -- it suits you.
That is the same sort of stereotyping used by the pastor speaking on the 'evil' European white person. Same old stereotyping, different race. Pastor Wright is a racist and anti-American. Indefensible.
It's real easy to criticize those how are down...when you are on top. Obama spelled this out in his speech. There is black ANGER! And it is JUSTIFIED! If you cannot deal with that, then maybe YOU are the racist
Who are these white supremacist?
"There is black ANGER"
AKA black racism.
"And it is JUSTIFIED"
God Damn America and Chickens coming home to roost... is NOT justified. The Pastor is a racist and a majority of people feel the same way. Only the self-hating whites and racist angry blacks see it as just.
Bert B. ARE YOU BLACK?
Spin it all you want, if it quacks like a duck and it walks like a duck, chances are pretty good that it ain't a dog.
Am I black? I am what you see in the picture, a 70+ white liberal atheist and damn proud of it.
Don? I'm shooting for a world where we CAN and SHOULD use the words "integrity" and "politicians" in the same sentence, and actually smile with pride (instead of smiling or joking about the current crop of honorless a$$es that run the world, and then walking away, without doing anything to fix it.)
Venting again? Youbetcha!
Wilka
The facts, whether or not liberal apologists want to admit to it, is that Uncle Jeremiah is a racist and anti-American. Obama will lose this election because thankfully, we still have enough sane Americans(no hyphens) left in this country. Sorry lefties, maybe next time!
Hear! Hear! I second the motion. It is up to us to elect people who think rather than manipulate, have integrity rather than dishonor, willing to serve the people rather than serve themselves. There are politicians like that. Obama is one of them. It is our choice. If we reelect the same old, same old we get the same old, same old. To get change, we need to change.
It's time.
*ROFL*
Wright's sermon - the whole 40 minutes - has been popular for several years. As you note, most of it is traditional Christian teaching. Wright is a scholar and respected nationally and internationally for his work with many groups of different races and religions. The offensive "trash talk" portions of the sermon are not much different from what can find in talks of other black leaders to black audiences on some occasions, which many whites do not usually hear. Andrew Young, our UN Ambassador and Mayor of Atlanta has admitted talking that way to cool tension sometimes. Some of Martin Luther King's talks , which are rarely quoted, were similar at times.
Obama's speech was nuanced in explaining his rejection of such Wright's extreme statements yet he gave an intelligent and accurate picture of the lack of understanding of the black experience in America by many Americans. Black liberation theology is not about destroying America but redeeming it.
I am not black. I do not feel Wright was preaching hatred of America . He hasn't acted that way in practice, quite the contrary.
Excellent point. As I posted eariler, cite me text, in context, of the Bible that proves me wrong. Let's not deal with opinion. BTW, I do NOT consider myself "authority." That is why the article suggests RATIONAL discussion.
Don H, "If one says that Jesus (who is black according to the friendly pastor)..." Actually Jesus would have pretty darn dark. He was a Semite in bloodline and as a carpenter spent a lot of time out in the Middle Eastern sun. Probably a rough looking character, much like your average Syrian day laborer. He DID not have blue eyes, Scandanavian skin and delicate hands. He was a poor working man in a occupied land and spent a lot of time hoofing about the countryside. He must have looked like a tough, dark skinned, Jewish-Arab.
Don you should really take some time and read Obama's race speech. Do it in a dark corner and don't tell anybody so your RW image will stay intact. You make, sadly, legitimate points about crime and race. SO DOES HE. But this is a GREAT nation. Some call it "chickens home to roost" and "God damn AMerica." Some call it "blowback" and inevitable accountability for imperialism, racism and colonialism. This nation, as any great nation, makes mistakes. But as Obama says we need to strive for a "more perfect union" and we can by not running from the unpleasent and controversial, or labeling challenges to American might and right as anti-American or racist. We are greater and better than that.
Wright is a evangelical preacher, in a specfic congregation that reflects socieo-political context of their daily life. The congregation has a cultural backround unique to it's enviorns. Wright delivered them an activist speech in terms and from a perspective they would readily understand and accept. Does Wrights sermon, with it's glaring Biblical light upon the hypocrisy of American domestic and foreign policy make him a "racist?" This is boiler plate stuff among activist black churches. There is a long tradition in the civil rights movement of the same. It would have been better that he had the wisdom and eleoquence of ML King, but those come along rarely. In the end he says "trust to god," as every preacher does. There are sections in the sermon that are irresponsible, as I have posted. But if we had a nickle for every iinane statement by an evangelical of whatever stripe we could eliminate the national debt. Obama has in word and deed shown that he is a secular leader with a religious affiliation, like scores of millions of other Americans.
His claims of government lies: America knew Japan would attack Pearl Harbor. I've heard that here on Gather, but I cannot find ANY convincing evidence and can find much that disputes the claim.
The government lied about the Gulf of Tonkin. True. There is much to support that claim.
Nelson Mandela's imprisionment and CIA involvement. True. We actively supported the South African government against the ANC who was receiving backing from the Cubans and Russians.
The Tuskeegee experiment. True.
Vietnam era bombing of Laos and Cambodia. True.
Iran-Contra. True. Republican rehabilitation of the liars and convicted criminals. True.
HIV creation by the government for the mass genocide of blacks. Preposterous, irresponsible and indefensible slander. Show me the proof.
The ONLY "true" thing, well documented and agreed upon by ALL--- is the Tuskeegee thing.
All the rest of your "true" answers are bogus
Let's just throw this racist Jeremiah Wright under the bus and move along. Obama will take the 20 point hit, and that will be that.
To keep re-hashing the nutty statements over and over again is getting tiring.
Do you not see the contradiction between calling everyone you disagree with names and then saying that America is "fine?"
People behaving in a churlish and juvenile manner do so when their facts fail to support them.
Might I recommend you read Reverend Wright's speech (and I can't believe you called him "Uncle Jeremiah" -- how disrespectful) and give us your thoughts without any name calling whatsoever?
I'm guessing you can't or you won't.
If only the Obama haters would do that! But I think articles like this are needed to balance the "swift boat" attacks. Kerry didn't refute the attacks against him forcefully enough, and it, among other blunders, cost him the election. Obama is a stronger candidate than Kerry (That's not saying much, though) and has attacked his attackers head-on. Sam and I have independently decided to do our own bit to counter the right-wing spinners.
The Gulf Of Tonkin "attack" was bogus. You should know that. Johnson manipulated it as justification. You need links?
The ANC was under CIA mischief to support the South Africans during the Cold War. Mandella's drive for independence was an inconvient distraction to the "containment" of Communism. The ANC recieved arms and training from Cubans and Russians. That's part of the record. Mandella suffered the consequences. The CIA's role is part of the accepted record.
Nixon lied about bombing Laos and Cambodia. That's above dispute.
What was truthful about Oliver North in his Congressional hearings? Reagan threw him and Poindexter under the bus for deniable plausibility. No mystery here.
Don't understand your objections.
Bret I agree Wright is a non-issue but you must agree the RW has made it a credibility problem for Obama. That's not acceptable. It's dishonest, hypocritical and unjust.
THe Wright episode is revealing only in referencing the cultural backround of Obama and whether his backround provides enough understand and insight into the rest of the nation who does not bear the cross of racism. On the other hand it does show why he has such a strong allegience to the Constitution and civil rights. He's a uniquely American fellow, an inevitable manifestation of a new demographic: Young, educated, bi-racial, eleoquent, with a persistant call to move into a new era of national and international relations that reflect a changing dynamic. His popular appeal is stunning. I see him as a harbinger of something new in the American experiance, for better or worse, but inevitable. Thank god for his affection of our system of government and the COnstitution.
"If only the Obama haters would do that! But I think articles like this are needed to balance the "swift boat" attacks. Kerry didn't refute the attacks against him forcefully enough, and it, among other blunders, cost him the election.
I'd much rather compare Obama's lack of experience on almost any topic to Hillary and McCain's. At least that might be enlightening.
Obama is a stronger candidate than Kerry (That's not saying much, though) and has attacked his attackers head-on. Sam and I have independently decided to do our own bit to counter the right-wing spinners."
I don't think that's been proven yet............Obama had momentum, but that's gone now. When most of Centrist America takes a long, hard look at Obama's very Leftist views (listed on his website), they'll cringe in horror.
We have two better candidates out there than Obama.
"I heard Ambassador Peck on an interview yesterday. Did anybody else see him or hear him? He was on Fox News. This is a white man, and he was upsetting the Fox News commentators to no end. He pointed out - did you see him, John? - a white man, he pointed out, ambassador, that what Malcolm X said when he got silenced by Elijah Muhammad was in fact true, America's chickens are coming home to roost.
We took this country, by terror, away from the Sioux, the Apache, the Arawak, the Comanche, the Arapajo, the Navajo. Terrorism - we took Africans from their country to build our way of ease and kept them enslaved and living in fear. Terrorism. We bombed Grenada and killed innocent civilians - babies, non-military personnel. We bombed the black civilian community of Panama with stealth bombers and killed unarmed teenagers, and toddlers, pregnant mothers and hard working fathers. We bombed Gadafy, his home and killed his child. Blessed be they who bash your children's head against the rocks.
We bombed Iraq, we killed unarmed civilians trying to make a living. We bombed the plant in Sudan to pay back for the attack on our embassy - killed hundreds of hard-working people - mothers and fathers, who left home to go that day, not knowing they'd never get back home. We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye. Kids playing in the playground, mothers picking up children after school - civilians, not soldiers. People just trying to make it day by day. We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant? Because the stuff we have done overseas is brought back into our own front yards.
America's chickens are coming home to roost. Violence begets violence. Hatred begets hatred, and terrorism begets terrorism.
A white ambassador said that, y'all, not a black militant. Not a reverend who preaches about racism; an ambassador whose eyes are wide open, and who's trying to get us to wake up, and move away from this dangerous precipice upon which we are now poised. The ambassador said that the people we have wounded don't have the military capability we have, but they do have individuals who are willing to die and take thousands with them, and we need to come to grips with that.
Let me stop my faith footnote right there, and ask you to think about that over the next few weeks if God grants us that many days."
Some people are always looking for a fight I guess *chuckle*
Don't understand your objections
And I don't understand your insistence that "accepted truth" isn't truth at all-- it's just "accepted" and hardly proven as "fact."
If you could provide the proof, I'll look at your links, but please, don't try to sell me on the "common wisdom" thing, accepted is what the faith based zealots of global warming use as "proof" for their wild eye theories as well. *chuckle*
I don't want to start a whole threadjack on whether America is good or bad. Like many countries, we have our fantastic triumphs and our horrible failures.
Other than some isolated incidents, we have been lucky not to have experienced the daily reign of terror felt by the Israelis, the Brits -- when the IRA was doing their thing, or a whole host of other daily situations.
For me, 9-11 was a wake up call that we aren't immune from the effects of bad people who want to hurt us. Reverend Wright's choice of words are different than the ones I would have chosen (particularly since I don't share his faith), but I understand what he was saying.
I'm pretty sure everyone "understands" what he is saying. It isn't hard to miss the unfounded lies, and the ridiculous thread of ostensible "logic" used to support those lies.
I understand a great many black people believe HIV/AIDS is a product of the US government and was invented specifically to kill black people.
I understand a great many black people also believe crack/guns were brought into the "hood" by the CIA, and once again, to kill the black people.
Just because I understand their lunacy parading as accusations, doesn't mean I believe even one little bit of wright's mendacity.
And I fully understand Obama CANNOT BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE because of the words of his pastor.
moi too *G*
Wilka, I equate this to the people who have nothing nice to say about their exes. It should be embarrassing to admit repeatedly making such poor choices.