An estimat
ed crowd of 3,000 descended on Alhambra, CA, Tuesday night for Congressman Adam Schiff’s town hall meeting on health care. A Democrat, representing California’s 29th district, Schiff forged ahead with his planned town hall meeting in spite of the disruptions and cancellations of other Democratic meetings across the country.
Realizing his meeting was drawing national attention and quickly becoming a flash point for health care discussion in Southern California, Schiff changed plans, shifting the venue outside and beefing up security.
People started gathering about 4 o’clock, a full three hours before the panel discussion, carrying hand-made signs or distributing printed signs. In a shift of fortunes, the supporters of public health care option appeared to be much more organized than opponents. Several groups supporting health care quietly handed out pre-printed signs with the slogans, “Standing Together for Health Insurance Reform”, “Reform Now, Insure People, Not Profits,” “Health Care Can’t Wait,” and stickers that said, “Hello, I support Health Care Reform.”
On the other hand, opponents all had handmade signs, apparently feeling that by just 
showing up, wandering aimlessly, waving signs and screaming loudly they would be able to disrupt and hijack the meeting. This time they were met head on with health care supporters and much of the vitriolic behavior was defused. Whenever opponents tried to create havoc, they were quickly surrounded by health care supporters, dissolving their potency. In one instance a man in a suit with a bullhorn and a drummer tried to start a parade. He was so quickly surrounded by health care supporters his “parade” ended before it even began.
The crowd conti
nued to swell, and at one point the two opposing factions faced off, chanting, screaming and waving signs at one another, virtually inches apart. The police hovered, and the media, which were out in full force, delved into the thick of it. After about 30 minutes of yelling everyone was hoarse and having expelled some of their venom, backed away. It appeared the crowd was divided evenly between opponents and supporters.
Hosting the meeting outside was brilliant. A few, or even one person screaming can quickly hijack indoor meetings, but outdoors, the screams just blend in with all the others and are lost in the wind. It also allowed anyone to attend, therefore deflating the issue of being denied access or the right of free speech.
Another tactical move by Schiff proved noteworthy. He, along with the panel, sat on a high stage with powerful lighting and enormous speakers. Discussion was able to continue uninterrupted with the loud speakers drowning out screams and chants.
I talked to all sorts of people, but was particularly interested in a group of doctors that
showed up late in the evening; apparently coming straight off shifts from the various hospitals. Just their presence in white coats and holding signs supporting health care reform spoke volumes. I spoke with some of them. I was told that 59% of medical doctors support having some form of public option health care.
Dr. Gilberto Grandados of Harbor-UCLA Medical Center in Torrance, California, said,
“Unfor
tunately, the media never reports about the high percentage of doctors supporting health care reform.”
As the evening wore on you could see that the opponents were deflated and frustrated. The usual tactics of screaming venom to disrupt discussion of health care options and/or reform was ineffective. Instead of taking over the town hall meeting, they had been relegated to the back of the area. Slowly their voices faded, their signs lowered, and they dissolved into the night.
NOTE: I am heading to Disneyland to celebrate my 6oth birthday! Talk among yourselves & I’ll catch up with the discussion later tonight.
Cheri Cabot, Politics Correspondent
Cheri’s column, “Personal About Politics,” published every week, will reflect on how the life of a 60 year-old, middle class woman is affected by politics, policy and the current state of the nation - a look at the personal aspects of politics. Her column is part of Gather Essentials.
Cheri is a freelance writer, living in Southern California. She has two grown children and is the proud grandmother of three. Cheri is also a purveyor of fine coffee, warm chatter and dry wit.
You can find all of Cheri’s columns on Personal About Politics at www.personalpolitcs.gather.com, The Obama Watch at theobamawatch.gather.com or her home page here, www.ccabot.gather.com.
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Comments: 180
Have a safe and happy vacation.
Lee says: I . . . mmm . . . I think that's what we are showing liberal progressives at these town halls. That not everybody thinks like they do. +shrug+
I'm glad to hear the congressman showed up and went through with the meeting. Did he actually take anyone's questions, especially the ones not supporting his stance?
Great reporting Cheri.
So, yes, the Congressman & the panel did take a lot of questions, many that were not supportive of his stance.
There were handmade signs too from supporters, in fact one gentleman brought poster board, two large jugs of paint and brushes and allowed people to make their own signs if they choose. I think most just decided it was easier to grab a sign already made. I was actually surprised at how organized supporters were....they made the opponents look rag-tag.
Posters can be made for as little as $25. and the time for pep for the Town hall Meeting began at least a week prior to--plenty of time to have your opinion printed on a poster.
Paranoid conspiracy theories fuel anti-Government Militias--misinformation leads to ignorance and proliferates like a wild fire which thwarts the best of intentions and deeds.
Cheri, I don't know if your conclusion is valid. Sounds more like they showed up with no plan and were overwhelmed. Not necessarily in the clash of ideas but organized political resistance financed by the Dem party. If the reform opposition is made up chiefly of people trying to fight this and the Dems have to spend such funding (I sure hope the government did not pay for it), then it will become a battle of money versus ideas. Individual protesters on their own or with friends cannot win that fight.
Plus, if I were being paid by either side to disrupt a meeting, the last thing I'd do would be to carry a sign. To come to the meeting signless would give the illusion that I was there because I truly believed the statement(s) I was there to make. Not saying that anyone who's not waving a sign has been paid or that they aren't sincere; just saying that a paid agitator wants to make as good an appearance of sincerity as possible.
Happy 60, Cheri! Going to Disneyland to celebrate is a great idea -- maybe I can do that next summer when I turn 60!
Jeannie, I'm not downing either side for attending these things or voicing opinions... My question is concerning the Administration/some supporters theory that those opposing this reform bill are part of some organized group, bought and paid for. Cheri noted that supporters showed up and got pre printed signs from groups who want this reform. The opposition did not and was according to Cheri disorganized. While that is anecdotal and limited to this meeting, combined with most other sources I've found, the better organization/money seems to be coming from the reform side.
The democratic line til now has generally been: "These mobs are bussed in by well funded, highly organized groups
Which is better? Being well signed or being rag-tag?
Sounds like we don't like the "other side" no matter where they come from, what they do, who they are, how they get there, what they say. We don't like them whether they are astro turf or grass roots.
The truth or facts of who they are and where they come from or their concerns is irrelevant --- the opposition is to be torn down, marginalized, and accused of any and everything in order to try to drown their message.
+shrug+ No yelling. Just making an observation.
Cheri Cabot Aug 13, 2009, 3:07am EDT
There were handmade signs too from supporters, in fact one gentleman brought poster board, two large jugs of paint and brushes and allowed people to make their own signs if they choose. I think most just decided it was easier to grab a sign already made. I was actually surprised at how organized supporters were....they made the opponents look rag-tag.
“I'm asking how is it the supporters are the ones showing up well organized and with form signs while the supposed hired mob is not.”
Ans: Supporters appear to be organized juxtaposed against the disorderly anger of the opposition. Temperament + too much time on their hands coupled with misinformation = mob behavior paid or not.
I’m just saying--because when you ask a psychologist you will get a rational answer, not the one you want, but a rational answer.
Seems to me 'it' is more along those lines than anything else.
Whether the opponents to another big government program are black or white, tall or short, fat or skinny, young or old, well-dressed and supplied, organized or rag tag ... doesn't matter so long as whatever they are, that becomes the snark-magnet issue of the day. +shrug+
Charles said: I'm asking how is it the supporters are the ones showing up well organized and with form signs while the supposed hired mob is not. Though this is obviously one meeting, the other reports I've read say similar things about the opposition to this reform being without form signs and seemingly disorganized. Cheri's report unintentionally helps refute the Administration/reform supporters claim that the opposition is part of some right wing/insurance industry financed organization...either that or they are remarkably poorly supplied and led.
Lee, thanks for that. Johnice has a point about misinformation having it's bit to play in this debate but I think it goes both ways. Too many supporters see what they want to see in this debate instead of long term reality and some opposition see their nightmares only rather than what the bill so far is planning.
Sixty is a grand age! Enjoy!
Without bashing others . . . +sigh+
Happy 60th Cheri! You have now achieved maturity.
This looks like a very good strategy. I hope things do not have to turn violent but it seems the only way you can get anyone to listen any more.
So, if you have a reform plan for health care, I would really like to hear it. Truly.
So, I will be delighted to hear about your plan to reform health care.
So far virtually none of what Congress is trying to foist on us is online with the nation's principles of individualism or freedom to choose. There are many other ideas out there that don't have the government using force to push them and few of them make any claims to being this one sized fits all monster coming down the road that can't be paid for. None of them is even being considered. Even the CBO says it won't cover a third of the so called 47 million uninsured nor will it do it at even half of the predicted costs. That means another brick on the back of the tottering taxpayers.
Rita,
The military comes under the socialized category? Explain that one please.
Some of the other factors you mention are socialistic but hardly new. Police/fire protection is the responsibility of local government in most places and that isn't socialistic. Nor is parks, many were and are created by private entities long before socialism became popular in some circles. Schools were traditionally local control too until the 1970s and the creep towards larger, central government control. Social security has been a nice government plan in this land since the 1930s and was supposed to be (if one believes FDR's claims) to be only a safety net for widows/children. Even today, you have no legal standing on what you'll get back from SS as it is supposed to be supplementary. Of course it still takes from many to give to others (many live far beyond the amount of money they deposited in it while working)
My two granddaughters, 5 & 2, left me an absolutely hysterical version of Happy Birthday on my phone. It's a keeper.
So, all in all it was a marvelous birthday....but it's over and I am now 60 + one day. Sigh.
Glad to read this as it re instates my faith in the Democratic system here in the US.
These people who scream, yell and generally disrupt the Town hall meetings that are designed to allow people to question their Representatives and have those questions answered, are denying the rest of us our right to be fully informed of the actions our Representatives are taking!
Better they should express their opposition in a coherent and rational manner
if their points are valid then a more civil response may lead to their concerns being recognised and their ideas being incorporated into the bill.
It was interesting to watch the difference in tactics. When the anti-health care crowd tried to scream over the Congressman and panelists, they were shisshed, and everyone just turned their backs on them....pointedly ignoring them which is the worst kind of punishment for detractors. They crave attention and when they don't get it & their nasty tactics don't work, they don't know what to do. They only have one play book: Scream, be verbally abusive, scream some more, and don't let anyone talk that might not share their point of view,and then scream some more. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.
Paraphrased -
Studies have been made across America that lower cost health care is possible
Small businesses find that they would actually benefit from the health care bill
And from yesterday's Boston Globe - paraphrased - a headline about
A prominent local physician in support of the health plan, dispelling many myths
This article is well compiled and presented to all who really needed a change from the hysteria stirred up by whomever. Thanks!
Yes! I noticed this too at Sen. Sherrod Brown's panel yesterday morning in Ohio. Letting them see they are outnumbered certainly seems to shut them up.
Happy Birthday, by the way!
Excellent job on this piece. Thanks.
There was the one where the speaker asked how many opposed Gov run healthcare and a majority of hands went up.
Second question, how many were on medicare or medicaid, again the majority of hands went up.
THEY FORGOT THOSE ARE GOVERNMENT RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lord save us.
You deserved the best birthday and don't worry.......the kids WOULD bail ya out if they had to!
We will go back again after school starts and the tourists are gone.
Regarding the health care town hall....it was about like going to Disneyland and riding what they used to call an "E Ticket" ride. You stand in line an hour to get on the ride, it lasts about 5 mins, it's fast, furious, wild & scare, and when you get off, you wonder, "What the hell was I thinking to get on that ride?"
As I mentioned in the article, it was very heartening to see the group of doctors. They were very adamant about their support for public health care. These ARE intelligent people and don't need to read the entire bill to know our health care system needs changing!
Coming out of the Health Care field myself I completely understand why Medical professionals are onboard and are willing to risk penalties from the Insurance Co's and Pharmaceuticals a.k.a. perks for catering to them. With reform health providers will enjoy the ability to provide better health care services through a better delivery system to their patients.
59% of doctors are for reform? That kind of puts to rest the contention that, if we do reform health care, they'd all stop practicing.
I have a birthday this month to. Five months sixteen days to retirement.
Fanatics are making this a uncomfortable summer. Glad I got to read this befor some of them show up with their wacko rehtoric.
The next time you have an important political discussion, hold it outside.
Maybe that way, after all the childishness, people will actually listen to each other.
I think other politicians should take note of the tactics used by Schiff and the supporters there. The detracters were essentially shut down.
As for the news, it is truly heartening news indeed. I have attended a couple of pro-healthcare reform rallies - one with MoveOn before the rabble-rousers were frothed into a fury and one after. It was incredibly annoying at the second as there were only a small group (3) of people who were against reform, shouting loudly so that the larger group could not make themselves heard or even hear the person next to them speak. I found it absolutely disgusting. For people who claim to be for freedom and rights, they sure as hell don't mind trampling on the rights of others to be heard as well.
I needed this boost today - I'm glad that reason and sense is prevailing. And that finally there is coverage of the healthcare professionals who are definitely in favor of a public plan and breaking the hold of insurance companies dictating how they do their jobs. It is truly ironic - all the lies that the rightwingers are throwing out there (death panels, denial of care, not being able to get to go to the doctor of your choice) - these are ALL actually attributes of the CURRENT SYSTEM DICTATED BY HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANIES. The 'death panels' exist - they meet everyday in the exec board rooms of insurance companies. How many stories do we have to hear from families of those who have died because the treatments requested by doctors to save their lives were denied by the insurers?!?
The irony is simply astounding. On what planet do these people actually live? Many of them are old - and have Medicare and claim they have great healthcare. *sigh* Are they really THAT stupid?!?
Yes. They are stupid because they are too stupid to realize they are being pimped out by the insurance companies & big PHARMA. They hire Glen Beck & and Sean Hannity & the rest of the FOX crowd to whip them in a frenzy...then send them out on the streets to do their dirty work. These people have no arguments except NO.
Happy birthday Cheir, only eight more years and you will be as old as me.......oh fudge, I'll still be eight years older - maybe I can just stop and wait.
Your heart was in the right place and that is what counts!
Tax everyone everything up the Kazoooo
Encourage Massive Inflation (how's that $10/loaf bread?
Yeah, Randi, I'm sure you'd rather have some insurance company beancounter decide, without any accountablity or oversight, what care you can and cannot have. At least the government wouldn't be "running my healthcare".
What you offer is not a plan. It is bumper sticker rhetoric.
The road we are going down now is not sustainable. The lack of some form of public health care as an option will continue to drain our countries coffers. If you are happy with your health care, you may keep it, but those of us who would like a choice should be allowed to make it. Malpractice cases make up less than 1% of doctors costs. A tax break for health insurance will not be enough if someone is unemployed or underemployed and can't afford healthcare from private insurers. The government doesn't have to run your health care....but we should have a choice.
We, meaning health care reform supporters, were told to keep our signs up, surround the screamers and just quietly hold up signs. They don't understand how to handle that. Also, we would often physically divide the groups by just walking among them, and that took away the mob mentality. If they got too volatile, we simply turned our backs on them and/or walked away. They are desperately in need of attention...take that out of the equation also, and they are very frustrated.
MSNBC? Is that still in business? (humorous reference to ratings)
"isolate and humiliate"
Do you get Obama Points for that?
But no one was humiliated in her recounting, unless you think that not being able to shout down one's opponents is humiliating. If it takes holding meetings outside to ensure that all points of view are heard, I say go for it! Those who boo the question so loudly that the answer cannot be heard, and shout slogans so that noone else can speak or hear, they're not there to listen. If you don't like the fact that some of those I described oppose healthcare reform, then maybe you need to decide which is more important to you -- your right to freely speak your opinion or your need to disrupt my attempts to speak mine.
Gosh...I hope I get some Obama Points. That would be lovely.
I just heard on the radio that some nut out here in LA has threatened Obama and is holed up in City Hall with guns and surrounded by FBI. This is what comes of spewing constant venom.
The bottom line about the people opposing health care options at the meeting were simply anti-Obama.
When Schiff would speak or answer questions, they would boo automatically, not even listening to what he had to say. They were so busy booing, they missed any answer that they may have liked!
I can only imagine you mean this one (if not, let me know):
And if this is this lady in the clip you saw, did not say she didn't listen to his answer. She said she didn't hear his answer.
I know you aren't so far gone you can't see in her the emotion of that moment, speaking in front of crowd's of people for the first time ever, from within a crescendo of nervousness also (the pounding-in-the-ears kind probably). It's really not so hard to figure out how an answer can get lost ...how one might not be able to hear even over the pounding of one's own heart.
However, Senator Specter's answer was not really an answer, so she didn't really miss much. In any case, the room stood up and there was lots of cheering after she finished asking her question. When the cheering died down a bit, Senator Specter's answer went something like this: 'There are a few people who didn't stand up and applaud ... I get a fairly firm message from the support you have young lady ...'
Rude D. Aug 13, 2009, 9:01pm EDT
On Jon Stewart's The Daily Show they showed a Faux clip of an interview of a disrupter. The Faux reporter asked her if she was satisfied with the answer the senator gave her and she responded that she didn't listen.
Of course my solution is still at www.nopom.info if you haven't seen it yet.
"The majority of Americans do not want Obamacare and the Dems can't seem to get that through their heads. The polls keep showing it, though. :)"
The status of Health Care is pending revision as a Bill, at this time THERE IS NO BILL BEFORE CONGRESS!. There are skeletons of at least 3 BILLS which remains incomplete through the summer and only the fearful Right (and their drones) are planting misquotes and false summaries as to what is in the pages of one or the other of these documents--there are no legs to debate something which is not finished.
Debating any part of what is not being considered is like packing a bag for the hospital before you get pregnant. IT IS JUST DUMB!
That's what conservatives have been doing. That's why the polls show that the majority of Americans do not want any of the proposed bills.
Nothing has been tossed out yet, the unfinished, incomplete, undebated, skeletal versions of 3 BILLS are resting for the summer until Congress returns in September.
That may be your pov, but some people just like to be more prepared than others. So really, one person's dumb is another person's preparedness.
I know ... examples are rarely perfect and I do understand the point you were trying to make. But, as you may be able to gather from my answer to your next comment, in regard to this issue in reference to this Congress, being prepared ahead of time is better than expecting them to let allow time be prepared when the time comes...
We are debating things not even being considered yet.
That in itself is debatable, since if they aren't being considered why are they in the skeletal versions of the bills? The answer is, they are being considered. +shrug+ Which is why we are debating them.
"There are no legs to debate something which is not finished. . . "
Mmmmm.... Obama may or may not get what he wants - whatever that is at any given moment (his public statements are slightly contradictory).
What we find currently in the bill(s) which have come out of committee (all versions of which "are resting for the summer until Congress returns in September"), may remain in the bill.
Orrrrr some or all of the provisions may end up being taken out and/or changed, and/or added back in after either being changed ... or not.
One never knows.
But, what one can know is we should take a lesson from when the cap and tax bill was jammed through the House recently.
It could, and probably will, go the same way with any healthcare bill which comes up for a vote . . .
The fact that there may not really be one final version of a healthcare bill to read or debate yet ...
Well, ya gotta read and question what ya have until ya have something viable to read and question.
Which means listening to and questioning the Prez as well as all Congressmen with the grace, guts and character to present themselves to their bosses .. er constituents for questioning and for getting a better feel for what the people actually want irt what we know at this moment in time. And what we know at this moment in time is what we can read in those pending bills.
Eventually, in September, Congress will get back together and come up with something they like, something they think is viable.
The problem with finally having something viable, with this particular administration, is once they get one they like, they are just as likely to vote for it the next day as to allow anyone at all to read it through.
But even if we get the chance (if they graciously allow us the chance) to read it through ... they might not allow appropriate time for debate on it.
In any case even if by some miracle there is time (not the 72hours, but actual time) to read the thing and understand and debate, they (Congress) are just as likely to add 3-6 hundred extra pages at the last minute that no one has read or understood or debated and still expect a vote on it two hours after adding those pages.
Or, they might subtract the same amount of pages and amendments and still expect a vote on it two hours after taking those pages and amendments out.
So you see the dilemma. If we wait like good little boys and girls, we may end up waiting forever to give our input.
Libs will probably jam it through in any case (more power to em ... pleeeese jam it through without us), and they may even have the encouragement of a few Specter wannabe Rinos, but it won't go through without inspection or with and true or actual conservative's blessing.
In any case none of them is competent or honest enough to run an entire healthcare system. Not one of em on either side of the aisle.
Johnice R. Aug 14, 2009, 8:14am EDT
Hello Marilyn & followers of,
"The majority of Americans do not want Obamacare and the Dems can't seem to get that through their heads. The polls keep showing it, though. :)"
The status of Health Care is pending revision as a Bill, at this time THERE IS NO BILL BEFORE CONGRESS!. There are skeletons of at least 3 BILLS which remains incomplete through the summer and only the fearful Right (and their drones) are planting misquotes and false summaries as to what is in the pages of one or the other of these documents--there are no legs to debate something which is not finished.
Debating any part of what is not being considered is like packing a bag for the hospital before you get pregnant. IT IS JUST DUMB!
Johnice R. Aug 14, 2009, 2:29pm EDT
Marilyn,
Nothing has been tossed out yet, the unfinished, incomplete, undebated, skeletal versions of 3 BILLS are resting for the summer until Congress returns in September.
Greed. Control. Bigotry, but not compassion.
Your views of this earth and its movements are way off--diversify your news sources, your arguments and responses are archaic and copiously filled with untruths. It is a shame that you have no ability or will to evolve!
Are Democrat Town Hall Meetings 'Greenhouses' Because There Are So Many Plants In Them?
Wow, bet you're not a follower of Jesus, then. Interesting take on the word 'compassion'. I think you need a real dictionary, Marilyn.
I'm wondering why people who show up to support health care are called "plants" and people who show up to oppose the health care plans are called "grass roots"?
Cheri, they're plants when they are bused in from other places, of course. They're plants when they are sent "secret" emails and given special doors in which to enter that bypass the other people. Haven't you watched any videos about this?
They are associated with ACORN. It's multi-tentacled.
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Cheri Cabot Aug 14, 2009, 4:32pm EDT
Most of the signs supporting health care were from a coalition of groups that support President Obama's health care push, called Health Care for America Now. Apparently you don't read all THAT much or you would have known that...it's in the WSJ.
I'm wondering why people who show up to support health care are called "plants" and people who show up to oppose the health care plans are called "grass roots"?