I think the Christian, Jewish and Muslim peoples of faith need to understand the real voice of God and not what they want to hear, God is greater than mans words. Below Matthew is quoting Jesus. It astounds me that heterosexual people of deep religious conviction seem to paint gay people with the same brush of hedonism but yet when it comes to them they seem to separate themselves from their own heterosexual rapist, murderers, child molesters, adulterers etc. Its time this hypocrisy, brought on by a misunderstanding of Gods creation comes to an end.
"10His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.
11But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.
12For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."
see this sight for more; http://www.hiddenmeanings.com/gaysJesus2.htm
Here is my brush work; Don't you find it enlightening that the educated, intellectuals have no problem with homosexuality yet the ignorant and unschooled do!
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If anyone cares enough to look at verse 2 of this 19th chapter of Matthew, they will clearly see that the entire passage is dealing with a question that the Pharisees asked Jesus in order to trick him:
"Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?"
After Jesus gives His answer, the disciples respond by basically saying "Well, if that is the case, then maybe it would be better for a man not to get married."
Then, Jesus tells them that not everybody can do that.
The passage is dealing with chastity or celebacy, not homosexuality.
And the proof is in verse 12:
"For there are eunuchs [men unable to have sexual intercourse] who have been born incapable of marriage; and there are eunuchs who have been made so by men; and there are eunuchs who have made themselves incapable of marriage for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let him who is able to accept this accept it."
But, like I have already said, if you or anyone else does not actually give a hoot about truth or accuracy, then this comment is meaningless to you anyway.........
I think this is subjective and spiteful: "Don't you find it enlightening that the educated, intellectuals have no problem with homosexuality yet the ignorant and unschooled do!"
God bless you, John.
We can and should hate the sin and love the sinner.
Yes, of course I sin. Everyone does. My friends sin and it does not make me love them any less. I hope for the same consideration from others.
The phrase means exactly what it says, dear John. If God were not willing to forgive, Heaven would be empty. We can do no less for one another.
I can not see sin anymore for I do not look for it.
Would you say that's an indication that not observing the Sabbath is worse than "abomination?"
Here is an alternate translation that may give us a clearer idea of what God, through Matthew, was trying to convey:
. . . because some men are celibate from birth, while some are celibate because they have been made that way by others. Still others are celibate because they have made themselves that way for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let anyone accept this who can."
Matthew 19:10-12
-Mark
He says, "Hey, can you give me a bottle of that olive-oil flavored Geritol, please?"
-Mark
Matthew Henry from his commentary on Matthew 19
So, it doesn't make any difference if we are educated intellectuals or ignorant and unschooled, Jesus, teachings and his commandment to love one another applies to all of us.
To me, that is exemplified by people who forgive those who have done them a grievous wrong, like Pope John Paul who personally forgave the man who tried to kill him. He knew that nothing in Jesus teachings required him to approve of attempted murder, but everything Jesus taught required him to love his attacker.
As a parent, I have learned that the application of "tough love" for sinful behavior is very difficult, even though I love all of my children.
I read the Bible, I have been raised in a non-denominational church four times a week. The one thing that I have learned was to follow my heart. When busing came in the 60s welcoming the new students I made a stand for my fellow classmates[wrong by standards or so called friends] When a openly gay student was beaten in school there I was to protect him from other harms. I used my status and size and strength to stop it. Today I have friends who are gay ,we do not socialize but we stop to talk and then go our own way. I do have one close friend that is . We never talk about it but I know he is gay. It is like separate worlds but we have common interest. All I know is that they were born with this sexuality. They throw no cooties on me or try to force me to the dark side. They are people like you and me with thoughts of a better life. And GOD says do not judge one another. So the ingorant I am on things like politics, homo-sexuality..Hey ,I am free to say nothing...Did I just do that?
A whole lot of things, but mostly this: It's an abomination to God. He said this not once, not twice, but several times...and it wasn't all in one breath, but was spread out over 1,500 years. In the beginning, God created man and then He created a woman to be man's helpmate. I imagine that if God had thought homosexuality was okay, then he would have created another man...or just two women. But He didn't, so that's the beginning. When God gave the Law to Moses, He was very clear about the fact that if two (of the same sex) lie together, or "know" each other as man knows a woman, then those two were to be put to death, because "it is an abomination to God." God also destroyed the cities of the plains (Sodom and Gomorrah and a couple of others) because of their proclivity to homosexual behavior. The men of Sodom even tried to seduce the angels that were sent! (Sounds like San Francisco.)
About 1,500 years later, God spoke through the Apostle Paul to re-affirm that those who practice homosexuality "shall not enter the Kingdom of Heaven." Many argue that times have changed and we need to become modernized in our thinking. But the fact is that God is the rock. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Therefore, we can easily conclude that He has not changed His mind. Homosexuality is still an abomination to Him.
Now this does NOT mean that God doesn't love homosexuals. He does, and He wants them to REPENT (turn away) from that which is NOT pleasing in His sight. Can homosexuals be saved? Yes, emphatically yes....IF they will repent (turn away) from that which is wrong. It isn't the sinner that is hated; it is what he or she does (the sin). Is there such a thing as a Christian homosexual? No. You can either be a Christian, or you can be a homosexual.
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them" (Lev. 20:13).
"For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet" (Rom. 1:26-27)
You have done an excellent job of stating the scriptural case for God's attitude toward homosexual behavior and I congratulate you BUT, you then made a serious error in stating that there are no Christian homosexuals. That is not an accurate statement. No doubt there are many but, as with all sin, there should be not practicing Christian homosexuals. Sin is sin and God actually makes no distinctions or judgments over which is worse. He lumps it all into one and states "The wages of sin is death".
The wonder cure for "sin" is the Grace of God, executed through the life and ministry of Jesus. It covers "all" sin. The death penalty has been paid. The Old Testament penalty demonstrates the revulsion of God toward sins that tend to destroy the human race, as in the scriptures you quoted above but He has dealt with the curse of sin and now offers "free Grace" to all who will place themselves under the ministry of Christ. When one does so, they begin to restore not only their fellowship with their creator but to deal with the sinful tendencies of their lives.
A fully engaged homosexual who is honest will have to admit that if all the world adopted their lifestyle, the human race would cease to exist in about 35 years.
Hello there my friend.
I look at homosexual as a behavior and heterosexual as a behavior. Just like a drunk is a behavior to me. Will drunks be going to heaven? From what I understand is no, I do know that only God can change a man's heart. I have tried to change mine and from my own experience it takes God to do that. I am sorry I didn't have a link to what I posted , it's a copy I had. I have too many text files ) I see homosexual as a mental illness and that they are not homosexual till they practice it. My pastor at Church teaches it's not a mental illness.
Angel of the Dark(JanetW.) Oct 13, 2009, 5:24pm EDT
Its nice Scott that your Pastor is a doctor too!!
Me too. And he is a good one.
John Sparacio Oct 13, 2009, 5:51pm EDT
Scott I have a question for you. Are Muslims going to heaven or for that matter Buddhist and Jews?
Muslims and Buddhist folks are not Christian, you know that and lots of Jews will be going to Heaven. I don't know how to say this, But are you really this ignorant of the Bible? If you are a brand new Christian then I understand.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
16 All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right.
I can not believe how you have twisted scripture to fit your lifestyle.
I have several very good friends who have been changed and set free from their homosexuality after accepting Jesus into their lives and repenting frm their sin. And they are married to the opposite sex now and have children and love God.
I know that if they can be changed then anyone can change.
God can change anyone is you allow HIM to.
I was 19 when I gave my life to Jesus and I was on the road to hell - Living a life of partying and messin around and drugs and becoming an alchoholic and a cheater I know that when I bowed my kneee and asked Jesus to forgive me that I was set free from all of that.
I have not touched drugs or alchohol since then I have been married to the same man for 13 years and have 3 wonderufl children who love God and have never seen mom and dad cuzz each other out or beat on each other. Becuase of Jesus They are blesses.
And if God can change me a wretched person who cared for no one then I KNOW that everyone can change.
Also know your definition of blasphemy you may of wanted to put it on my other post that would have been more appropriate although I would disagree.
Robin Williams said it when he said "Isn't it ironic that if you get busted in GA for sodomy they will throw you in a cell with Bubba, who will sodomize you all night long?"!
I know that I'm going to get some backlash for saying that but that's how I feel and have always felt and just like you know that you are right I know that I am right.
The extra Y chromosomes prove it is not a choice, it is straight or gay!
It may be the amounts of estrogen and testosterone that are distributed during fetal development and before birth, that could be the cause or add to the anomaly of the "gay being".
John Sparacio Oct 13, 2009, 9:49pm EDT
Moreover, the Archangel Gabriel spoke to Muhammad.
John John John. Muhammad had nothing to do with the Bible. I could tell you about the moon good of Muhammad, but that would only get you mixed up more. Muhammad wanted his own religion, so he made one up. He has nothing, I repeat, nothing to do with the Bible. Islam is a religion out of the pits of hell.
In effect, just because "they" say something, it does NOT necessarily make it right or correct.
Bottom line though, is that if one SINCERELY and from the Heart, asks Jesus for His forgiveness, he will be forgiven. One cannot lie to Jesus. He and the Father know our hearts and know if we truly believe that the only way to Heaven, is through the Lord Jesus Christ.
So, yes, homosexuals CAN be forgiven, if they sincerly want to live the way Jesus would have them live. Some religious folks, better versed in scripture than myself, say that even on the death bed, if one sincerely asks Jesus to forgive him, and really means it, he will also be forgiven at that time. But, that person's heart best be saying the same thing as his prayer.
...so what's the point? If it's up to God to "judge" Gay, or any other people, why hyperventilate over it? It's none of your business. It's between God and the Gay person.
is absolutely no evidence
Wow you sure are blind.
The whole thought that nothing created everything is an intellectual embarrassment for atheists, " "There's no way to say it kindly, but such thoughts show that the atheist doesn't think, and proves the Bible right when it says that the fool has said in his heart that there is no God.
God is my Father. When my father does not like something, I deal with it. I love my father. You mess with my father, you're messing with me. None of my business? Think again.
Do you have any real evidence that God exists? I don't think so. So, basically you are making your business something that's based in your interpretation of what you are taking as a matter of faith, and you then presume to speak for your "father." What a pompous self-righteous idea.
It's perfectly fine to have faith that God exists. That's a personal judgment. But realistically, there is no evidence beyond supposition.
Personally, I do believe God exists, but I don't see that God as an anthropomorphic version of man who needs humans as "his" little friends.
God Bless
I can't comment either way in the framework of the post as I'm as far from monotheism, specifically Christianity as anyone can get~
I do however appreciate the stance you take~
How does one loving someone of one's own sex harm others the way those who break a Ten Commandments do?
It is a fact that the more educated people are, the more accepting of homosexuality they are. (Do your own research: I have done mine over years.) I taught at two large universities and prejudice against gays was almost non-existent. One of my departmental chairmans was gay, and everybody knew it. He was so respected that the new building for the Department of English was named for him. The Dean of Arts and Sciences at the other university was gay and the fact was well known.