Who created man? God or Satan

We were 'Fearfully and Wonderfully Made'. God commanded Noah to take two pairs of unclean animals in for every seven pairs of clean animals. This to me points ouit a little nastiness is required for things to run smoothly. The giants you speak of in the Bible simply are the nephilim....the 'men of old and renown'. A mystery really.

I am but a humble, northern / western celtic european descendent of Japheth :)

I say we were created by Oprah.

Lord knows she's got the money....

that's funny brian. but the bible says god created us in his image.

He did in the beginning until those fallen angels had there way with our women folk. Now look at us. Handsome and charming as Lucufer, and as deadly as a croc!

Before "The Fall" we were God's lap dogs, and that's all.

Satan made us "Human" - or

The Devil is the world become physical.

At least that's how it seems from the Bible if you read it.

So when Conservatives say that Humanism is of the Devil, I guess they are correct.

And yay Humanism (I don't want to be a lap dog).

God recreated us. Satan may trip us up, but disease and sickness arfe part of my mortal life here on this planet. One of the many sturggles that we face as part of this great testing period.

Well for me neither. My parents had sex. And neither one was godlike or devil in disguise.

I like Lori's answer.

I have a question for you, John. Is it torturous to think the way you do?

"...but the bible says god created us in his image. "
Umm...Does it? Oh! Genesis 1:27. ok.
I get confused because just before that it says in Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness" and that sounds more like . . . I don't know . . . a party?

Cute Lori . . . and don't be too sure . . . you Dad might have considered your mom to be "Godlike"! :)

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~

LOL Doyle I think my dad would have considered my mom more refrigerator like...if anything.

like a ... what?

dear sandy knauer, yes it is tortorious to be as thoughtfull as i am. i wish i had half a mind and was happy with my beer and pizza hunting women like a preditaor but i am not nor can i ever live that cultural life.
the question of creation has haunted me for many years and i am just starting to scrape the surface. check out my article prior on the reptilian connection.

God created us...Satan is a myth..the bad things that happen are because God gave us free will..anything bad in the world we've created for ourselves and no one to blame bout ourselves.

correction: "nor can i ever live that cultural life" should read "i wish i could live that cultural life" and without the knowledge of the tree of good and evil.

Laura C. - you may want to look at freewill in a different way. not as a gift from God but as a tool of Satan to destabilize the mind and weaken it by the mere fact that a primitive mind can not make a rational and logical assumption or decision.

So if there is no devil then god is responsible for child molesters and wars and all the killing. Hmm and you wonder why people are running away from Christianity in droves.

Lori there is a devil, it is us!

I don't see it that way at all, and that's not what I was taught in church...you're free to believe as you choose, but so am I...

John honestly and no snarkiness intended...this is the reason why I dont believe in god or the devil.

It makes no sense.

We are supposedly created in gods image. But the devil is in there too.

But you can never see god or talk to him cause if you do they lock you up in a padded cell. You must just blindly believe and not question.

But the devil makes you do things but only because god gives you free will.

I would rather think that I am responsible for my own actions and not god or the devil. People use religion and its deities to escape personal responsibility.

Rev you say the nicest things:)

I didn't mean you Lori...I was talking to John who wrote the article...and i'm not even a your typical Christain...it was just an unfortunate timing of my post.

Seems to me we were the result of what Kurt Vonnegut called "a series of accidents." It's pretty darned arrogant to assume that a divine being, assuming one or more exist, would have any interest in us. Hard to say, if they're around they're not like us for sure.

oops my bad...sorry Laura:)

I think some of us were created by God but others were created by Satan. I have seen proof of this right here on Gather.

i'll take God or Satan on.
in a knife fight.
or both.

out of the three mentioned, only one would show up. -ever heard that cute little story about the Marine? some atheist professor stood in front of his class and declared, "If there's a god, i'll give him five minutes to appear, and knock me off of this podium." eventually, the marine leaps up and sends a haymaker crashing into the guy's face. "why'd you hit me?" the prof' whined.
"god was too busy helping the soldiers who protect your right to say stupid stuff like that."

yeah.
reeeeal cute.

but let's stop and ponder something: we were guaranteed a certain level of immediacy by Jesus (go investigate: my years of Bible-thumpery are long since done)--that a holy spirit would Comfort us, and knock out atheists.
with signs and wonders.
which keep right on Not Showing Up.

i've got two eyes, more religious study than most, an incisive wit, a sexy body, and a partridge in a pear tree.

none of them are signs...though my body is certainly a wonder.

okay; all jests aside--these spirit beings only show up when nobody else is looking. just one lonely soul.
possibly insane.
who knows?
not i.

which is kinda my point: all that bloody FAITH. -look: i can't trust an all-powerful fella who'd let his son get pounded like that. no matter WHAT his plan entailed, that's just plain mean. the heathen sacrifices this god claimed to be canceling out, thus ushering in a Time of Grace?
i'd've said, "LET them sacrifice doves and shit! -that's my SON, Michael--and i don't wanna hear another word about it!"

they say we can't fathom god, but, y'know...from where i'm sitting, he looks an awful lot like Saddam Hussein. a dictator who's subject to megalomaniacism, owns most of the stuff, smiles lovingly in a place Not Here--

and spending the latter part of his reign in some hole, apparently.
where no eye can confirm him.

I believe we were all created by God. God gave us free will, and in that free will...one of God's highest angels decided that he could run the show better than God. Hence...the birth of Satan as we know him. The gift of free will that God has given to us all can be either our greatest blessing or our greatest curse, depending on what we choose to do with it. The state of mankind shows that we haven't been doing such a great job with the free will that was given to us. But that's okay...for God was merciful enough to offer us a plan of redemption...available to everyone who chooses to accept it.

i wish i had half a mind and was happy with my beer and pizza hunting women like a preditaor but i am not nor can i ever live that cultural life.

How'd you get there? Seriously, what on earth (or in heaven or hell) does this have to do with the conversation?

the question of creation has haunted me for many years and i am just starting to scrape the surface.

I see this, and understand that you are not alone. Many people seem to have the same concern. May I ask why? Why does it matter where we came from or where we are going? Why not focus on how we live now? Would you live differently if you had the answers?

Thomas...I see it a bit differently than you. I believe that sacrificing His only son on the cross was really the only way God could show how much He loves us. He had to be able to sacrifice something that we as human beings could relate to. When I think of the most horrible thing that could ever happen to me...it is always losing one of my children. To watch my child suffer and die in such a manner is the utmost in horrible. Knowing that God was willing to do this for ME...and knowing that His only son was willing to take on MY sins is such a manifestation of love that it is difficult for me to fathom. But the good news is that the story did not end there. His son is alive and well today and for eternity...offering that same gift to us.

Let me set you all straight. I do believe in God but the God I speak to and see signs from was the first creator who is most like a human father in all his objectiveness and love combined with his reserved way of delivering obedience. If you are Christian you do understand that this world had became corrupted by the seed of Satan, just like a virus infiltrates the body so did this corruption infiltrate the minds of men. You must have faith and pray unfortunately to be in Gods light. The reason I say unfortunately is because of the infiltration. If the infiltration of the seed into men had never happened we wouldn't need to pray for salvation but instead be praising his Glory and living in paradise.

Dear Sandy K; she wrote:" I see this, and understand that you are not alone. Many people seem to have the same concern. May I ask why? Why does it matter where we came from or where we are going? Why not focus on how we live now? Would you live differently if you had the answers?"
This is a very good question but I do care for as I sit in my own little world I can't help but notice the nukes in silos waiting to rain terror and death over me. I have a question for you. Have you ever been molested as a child, teased, lied to, addicted to drugs or alcohol, or are you financially secure, educated, healthy , have a big family? As for if I had the answers I probably would be worse off for then I would be even more frightened of what is really afoot in the universe.

John, I'm not sure what knowing the difficulties in my life has to do with this. I've faced many adversities which have all been balanced by something equally wonderful on the other side. I think this might be equivalent to what you see as angels and demons. I try to make sure my life is filled with both, because I can't fully appreciate one without the other.

well i would appreciate life much much more without the demons. i tend to feel that your desire for the demons is the Satan blood in you talking.

Rev B he is not absent it is us who are absent and partly due to the Christian doctrine of negative thought and hate which it likes to harness the masses with. What would life be like if we followed a more loving and compassionate word from the religious world. maybe we wouldn't notice are origins but live more in our glory.

How did biology on earth work before the seed of Satan contaminated everything? (Or alternatively, before we humans exercised our free will and chose evil?) Did all living things get their energy straight from the sun (or through feedings of manna)? I'm asking because the current design involves plants using photosynthesis to bring energy into the system, and the rest of us eating them and each other. Since all living things want to stay alive, I see a conflict of interest there that is essentially the source of everything we call evil. It seems to be part of the basic plan --or did Satan completely redesign everything?

well i would appreciate life much much more without the demons. i tend to feel that your desire for the demons is the Satan blood in you talking.

How sad. Do you think the devil has attacked every time something bad happens in your life? Do you believe this is supposed to be heaven on earth?

Wait....beer and pizza hunting represents a cultural life to you, John? First, I hear that these two are extremely easy to catch. Secondly, they are not high on my list of "cultural" items.

I would suggest that you get out more, meet more people, take a class, join a reading group (preferably not a bible reading group), go to concerts (preferably not christian music concerts - the classics are nice), go to movies (preferably not End Days movies), join a cultural organization in your area as a volunteer (preferably music, art, dance, not beer and pizza). It will open up your eyes to life....and the joys of life. You need a little uplifting, John.

Sheryl O you are so right but since i have eaten of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil i am doomed to examin it.

Sandy K. yes this was heaven on earth. actually the air we breath is heaven the water and the ground below is earth. so yes this is heaven on earth.

dear Rev B. i don't believe that God new of or had our failing predetermined. And i don't think the God we celebrate is the all powerfull of Gods. This is the greater question i am seeking now. Ill keep you all posted. Maybe ill have a theory in a few days.

John - you'd be better off eating pizza and beer. Really, get out more. You would be surprised at how good people can really be when you get to know them personally. And, if you're doing good, too, it's an added bonus. Focusing on the evils of the world is not good. BE the good you want to see in the world - it's contagious. Believe me.

so yes this is heaven on earth.

So, if this gruesome, miserable, devil infested place that you want so much to change and escape is 'all there is' what's the point? Seriously, it breaks my heart to hear anyone talk this way. I wish I could convince you to believe that the negatives in life are not devils but are challenges that lead to wisdom and strength. It's so much more fun this way.

Rev. B. is on the same track as i: if you ever come up with the answers to god's imperfection and/or cruelty, PLEASE do the Good Samaritan deal.

hit me up, and break it down.

until then...son-slayers be DAMNED.
and if that means i'm going to Hell...well, at least i'll finally know it's THERE.

Rev, the electrical impulses that are part of the functioning of the brain are generated by biochemical processes. Biochemistry is there first, so to speak.

Sandy K if the negatives lead to strength then let me know what you learn from a child being molested by a parent or a young teen being murdered. I think you are seeing the glass half full with champagne instead of bud light.
As for the point I still have hope in mankind and my holy spirit which burns bright within me. It saddens me that this beautiful place we call home has been so corrupted. You are right maybe mother Teresa and the rest of the humanist should have just given up and enjoyed themselves rather than given there lives to the impoverished and sick.

neither, they are both ficticious characters in a book written and rewritten by human males who felt that they could control the weak masses into believing their propaganda.

if you refuse to give either of them the power over you, you suddenly gain back control of your own destiny and the world becomes a much better place when you stop laying the blame elsewhere and take responsibility for your own actions.

Thank you CC.....I sooo totally agree with you.

your welcome heather.

I tried on a few too, Rev. They didn't fit....

We are exactly what we are. If it turns out we are "without" an immortal soul (mystical energy field, etc), that's how we were the whole time. We haven't become anything less.

wow. talk about using one's imagination. ;)

I think maybe John S. is just pulling our collective legs.

no i am not pulling anyone's collective legs just trying to explore our origins.

heck, i wonder if i can get him to pull my finger?
Rev. B., Jul 3, 2008, 11:58am EDT

according to my 4 year old niece, one should only pull a finger when you have ample room to run away from the resulting smell, therefore one should never pull a finger in a car.

Someone has read Paradise Lost and didn't realize it was fiction.

Sharon and Sheryl both have a really good point - stop reading whatever weird shit that is you're reading and get out into the world and talk and interact with real, living, breathing people. And if it is Paradise Lost, then Wanda's right; it's only fiction. And CC's right about the other thing - the beings depicted in the Hebrew scriptures are fictitious Bronze Age wraiths designed to scare people into obedience. They have no relevance now, especially not since the discovery of science and rational thought!

God made us. We just let Satan run our lives sometimes.
Satan is the king of air, (Music).
look at Alice Cooper >>>> ............... and Ozzy........

Why do we come into this world screaming and crying? Isn't that form of expression usually representative of pain. Again it is the blood demon in us. We can't escape it. Reincarnation is its perpetuation of the creature. Maybe the Manicheans where correct New human life is to be avoided at all costs" when they say "the only way to stop it is to cease breeding and die off. Or we all can escape to another planet and leave theology, i.e.; God and Satan behind. But I fear that too will degrade into another human enslavement of each other, a hierarchy system of the shrewd ruling the gentle. Atlas our blood is our blood and with that we are doomed to our animal demon seed. You can't run from it. You can't kill it. You can't negotiate with it, you either live a pure life as stated in the Didache and hope for salvation in God or perish in the annals of historical figures who never really moved from there birth right who rapture themselves in a constant state of anxiety and fear all in the name of living.

Sharon and Sheryl are correct but for me it is too late ( as stated in the garden of Eden when the man and woman had there eyes opened to good and evil after eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil ) I too have seen too much and learned too much my mind may be able to push it back into a type of Pandora's box but the box with its contents will always be there. I can just pray at this point in my life that the God of love and compassion hears my cries and answers them with a new mind and insight into my existence.
PS: check out my art at www.sparacio.com it will give you some more information about me.

I think some of us are were made by god and some of us were made by devil. Me, in particular, I think of myself as being one of the favorite god's children.

This has been an interesting read. Everybody here is smart enough to know that under the laws of our universe ... there is no way matter, energy or force could have come into existence on it's own. And even if it could, the 2nd law of thermodynamics would prevent the energy/matter from forming itself into more and more complicated forms.
It only makes sense that we are the cause of something outside our universe operating under a different set of laws.
Taking college religion classes or even popping around to different religions don't necessarily give you enough info to make valid decisions on what that entity might me. I call it an entity because it obviously has intellect and reason and operates with purpose.

I know the first step is to humble ourselves somewhat. Call out to whatever name you want to give the entity. God suits me fine. Ask Him if He is there. If He wants to communicate with you. If He has a plan for you? I did. He answered. I am a believer. Don't dismiss me assuring yourselves that I'm easily fooled or an idiot :):) I'm a normal person and normal people don't usually make up nonsense.
I'd like to suggest you read the gospel of John and the book of Romans in the Bible if you are really wanting to know God IF ... He is real. Pride keeps a lot of people from wanting to know about God because they don't want to bow to anyone. In fact I wrote a poem a couple of months ago about a friend of mine that said that very thing. I stood outside his apt door with his daughter in law while he died. Not something I would wish on anyone.

If you ask God to let you know if He is real, if your intention is to trust Him if you find Him ... He will let you find Him. I had no idea that something actually happened when He came into you. It caught me off guard. But that is ONE of the reasons we believers that are 'born again' (that nasty term :) are so bull headed. Once you know Him ... no one's going to change your mind.
Please, any that would be willing to bow to Him if He were real ... talk to Him and read these two books with a listening ear. I would love it if you would share the results. I'll pray for all of you that God will make your own desires clear to you.
The best to you all, judy

God created me, and that's why I'm so good looking.

Join La La Land
Merry Christmas

Could it be that the Giants are our egos?

Could it be that it's all folly? The bible is a great book if you like fairy tales but Grimm's have happier endings and I gave up believing in imaginary friends right around puberty. Religion was conceived of by men to enslave the remainder of humanity. Wake up.