Minneapolis Bridge Collapse: What is the political fallout?

Julia, I need to think about that and it's early, and I haven't made my coffee and even tho it's made in the miceowave it still hasn't been done.

I'll give you a ten and get back to ya later.

http://www.startribune.com/587/story/1343631.html

"If someone gets in the way," he said, "they should be prepared to get steamrolled." (Dem Senator Steve Murphy)

Is this going to be a tax and spending orgy? Will or can there be any discussion or critique of the taxation and spending proposed? Will the Democrats charge ahead like a herd of bufflalo? Will they overplay their hand like the Wellstone funeral? Should we lower another tax to offset the cost of a tax increase on gas? Will they try to slam dunk a whole bunch of non-related taxes or projects in with the transportation spending and taxing?

I think you really have to wait until they find out what happened before anyone gets canned. Minnesota ranked in the top five nationwide for our bridge ratings so we we in the top 90% compared to other states. But we still don't know what happened.

Lets take this step by step Julia.

Inspections are necessary and very useful

When deficiencies are found they need to be fixed.

In-order to fix the deficiency that is found in the infrastructure revenue will be necessary to fix it.

In my opinion those that stopped the revenue from being applied to fix the found deficiency in the infrastructure is also the responsible one that caused the failure to occur, therefore, the blame should go directly to that point in the political structure.

No revenue, no budget, no fixes to the infrastructure. Blame lies there.

No problem, Richard. I'm tapping into a little caffeine myself.

Well Gary that remains to be seen. What did you think of Michel's comment? (below)

Sen. Geoff Michel, R-Edina, who had supported a five-cent-per-gallon increase, said the collapse had triggered enough concerns among Minnesotans about overall road and bridge safety that "a gas tax is near certain. We need something to catch up to the backlog.

"Minnesotans just really expect us to come up with thoughtful, bipartisan quick product. We need to deliver."


Clickable linkable: Minneapolis Star Tribune: Gas tax increase appears certain

We were commenting at the same time, Richard - sorry about that. You wrote,
"In my opinion those that stopped the revenue from being applied to fix the found deficiency in the infrastructure is also the responsible one that caused the failure to occur, therefore, the blame should go directly to that point in the political structure."

Do you think that will be Gov. Pawlenty? From the article Gary originally cited:

Pawlenty's opposition to a gasoline tax increase was long-standing and adamant. In 2005 he also vetoed a gas tax increase, asking of DFLers, "How dumb can they be?" Earlier this year he said DFLers "have simply been obsessed" with a gas tax.

I've also been wondering about the stadium and what the next set of priorities will be - a couple of commentaries have suggested the stadium funds be transferred to foot the bridge reconstruction bill.

The cartoons are sadly so true...

Is that all they are going to do? Taxing for bridge and road improvements? Do you think the DFL has that kind of restraint? Look what happpened in the last session. The Dem's campaigned on being tax prudent and they went nuts on all the different types of taxes proposed. The Dem's are salivating and having bladder control problems over the prospect of going back into session, they can't wait. Can they just keep the discussion to roads and bridges? Can we have meaningful debate on what and how it is spent? Will 40% have to go to light rail?

It was interesting to see them all in one place, I don't usually peruse MSNBC's Daryl Cagle's Professional Cartoonist Index/collection page.

Again, a link to MINNESOTA'S BRIDGE COLLAPSE ... by all the top cartoonists!

If we are going to divert funding for the stadium, then we need to divert funding that goes to Minnesota Public Radio. That money just goes to fund rich entertainers like Garrison Kellior. Everyone has to do their part, right?

"Can we have meaningful debate on what and how it is spent?" Not sure Gary, I'm wondering if we can't have one on Gather, how can the Legislature?

George Bush Doesn't Care About Black People...

oops... sorry, wrong tragedy. Somehow though, I know Bush had something to do with this!

Congress has not been allocating funding for the maintenance of our infrastructure. The fault lies there. It's important to remember that for six years we had a rubber stamp Congress that towed Bush's agenda for him. This was bad for the country. It is always bad for the country when the balance of powers is tipped in favor of any particular ideology.

It's a major interstate. Rebuilding that bridge is of paramount importance for the city but also for that midwestern corridor.

You have to admit that the infrastructure has not had much attention during the past seven years, Charles. Our resources have gone to the military and the country be damned.

Joe I have to disagree with that this is a problem thatwas 40 years in the making. That's where we continually view issues under the light of who's driving the car right now. As I've said before why do we need to raise more money when we've had 2.1 billion dollars extra from taxes during the last cycle. What need's to happen is that the government needs to spend like most people do within their means . We raise money but don't appy it where it needs to be our government seems to always find new things to spend on instead of concentrating on the areas needed to keep the state running ie. roads, bridges ect. When's the last time that the government came to the people and said no thanks we've got enough. They just find more things to spend money on.
As for the political fall out. It's already started. The bridge wasn't even down 24 hours and the blame game had already started. And yesterday I heard someone I didn't catch who it was saying that the governor is going too fast in trying to get the bridge rebuilt. So even the urgent need of a new bridge is being gone after.
I Think that there are going to be those that are going to demand that heads roll, but there needs to be some patience in determining what happened before there is the call for heads to roll. But with elections coming next year and there may or may not be an answer to why the bridge fell and it will still be used as a finger pointing issue against each party.

'Do you think that will be Gov. Pawlenty? From the article Gary originally cited:'

Who is the only person that is responsible to manage the processes of the Inspections, Revenue, Budget, and Fixes to the State infrastructure but the executive.

Hmm, it looks like there's been some writing / deleting... because I'm not tracking this order.

Hi Don H - actually, I'm really asking how it will affect Minnesota's politicians and process.

Joe T., do you believe this issue will affect the Federal govt?

"But with elections coming next year and there may or may not be an answer to why the bridge fell and it will still be used as a finger pointing issue against each party." - Charles M. Charles, do you think using the bridge collapse in campaigning will turn voters off?

By the way the Legislature legislates or talks about legislating, and the Governor executes or doesn't execute the necessary work.

Thanks for following up, Richard.

A dozen people dead because our priorities are so screwed up that we spend half a billion dollars on a baseball stadium that will provide no returns to the state while a bridge deteriorates to the point of breakage.

And we're concerned about political fallout? Give me a break!

The Dem's are salivating and having bladder control problems over the prospect of going back into session, they can't wait.

If we are going to divert funding for the stadium, then we need to divert funding that goes to Minnesota Public Radio. That money just goes to fund rich entertainers like Garrison Kellior. Everyone has to do their part, right?

Oh dear gawd, is this the level of debate we have to stoop to? Grow up, Gary.

Sorry I posted then deleted lost my train of thought and left part of what I wanted to say out. Wish box for typing your post was bigger make it easier to read back what I've typed.

I doubt it Julia. I naively hoped that the politics would wait until there had been more time to recover people but I was wrong. I think that all concerns of decency are off the table when it comes election time. I think that the hard right and the hard left will trumpet this as why they should be the ones in charge. Both sides will try and push it as far as they think the public will let them get away with. As it goes on I think there may be some back lash from it depending on the tactics used. But I don't think it will turn enough off.

I've wondered for years why Carol Molnau was allowed to maintain two jobs: one as head of MNDOT, the other as Lt. Governor. Conflict of interest, there? And why was Pawlenty's opposition to a gas tax so adamant?

I think these two will experience the greatest fallout.

There is no doubt that in the end heads will roll. That's the nature of politics. Lost in the question of maintenance is the fact that the operational load on that bridge was expanded to well above what the original designers planned to go on it. I think we need to go all the way back to those people who thought "oh we can just add another lane or two to the bridge" among side of the list of people who thought "oh it's only deficient … it's not like it's going to collapse tomorrow right?"

Anyone want to place a bet against the notion that the replacement bridge will be at design capacity the day it goes into service? In fact I have yet to see a single highway that wasn't obsolete the day it was completed. We barely design roads and bridges for the present … yet alone something that can handle the loads of 50 years from now. Instead of pushing existing bridges past their operational limit, let's build new ones.

Here's a blurb from today's Star Tribune:

MnDOT also tried to end speculation that the additional weight and vehicle traffic that the bridge has expereicned since it opened in 1967 might have contributed to the collapse. Assistant state engineer Gary Peterson said enough safety designs were built in to the original bridge to accommodate today's traffic flows and commercial vehicles.

I don't know if people believe MnDOT or not, but that's what they're saying.

If we are going to divert funding for the stadium, then we need to divert funding that goes to Minnesota Public Radio.

Um, Hennepin County is funding most of the Twins stadium cost...with the rest coming from private coffers.

MPR gets most of its funding from private contributions with only about 8% coming from the Government, most of that coming from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

So, how can State funds be diverted from funds they have absolutely no control over?

Just wondering.

They pledged to build this bridge in a year. How do you do that without stepping on a lot of peoples toes? How many lanes wide? How about a dedicated car pool lane? How about enough proper exit ramps and lanes for southbound at Washington and the blend into I94W. Will the enviromental folks bitch and make a fuss over the "scenic aspects" and "mother nature"? If we build this in a year, will every change order be scrutinized, or will this be a huge money pit. Will those contractors involved give campaign contributions to a certain political party? How many quick ship premiums will have to paid and under what scrutiny for materials and services? If we are building it in a year will it be built right? Who signs off on the new bridge? What happens if the bridge is half built and we find out it was terrorism? What happens if we find out six months into bridge construction that what happened was in the stabilty of the ground and the new bridge has to be redesigned?

How about a toll bridge?

They pledged to build this bridge in a year. How do you do that without stepping on a lot of peoples toes?

Funny, the original post was looking for your insights, not a rehash of all the questions already on everyone's minds...

But's that is part of the political fallout. Everyone from both political sides will be under great scrutiny in the days and months ahead.

No, Julia. I think that by 2008, the bridge will have been rebuilt and all but forgotten in most of the country.

Alot of toes will be stepped on to rebuild but that's just what needs to happen.

Tolls are awful -- talk about creating congestion and gridlock.

Will the enviromental folks bitch and make a fuss over the "scenic aspects" and "mother nature"?

Yeah, Mother Nature SUCKS! F***K the environment and all those Mother Nature nuts! GD treehuggers.

"Alot of toes will be stepped on to rebuild but that's just what needs to happen. " Joe T

Yep, Zeldapie, if you want your bridge built in a year, then Mother Nature gets f'ed. At least that what Joe T says.

That's the politcal fallout I'm talking about folks! You can't build a bridge in a year without squelching oposition, like the "Friends of the River" Sierra Clubs, neighborhood groups, government spending watchdog groups, Homeland Security, and all the other groups that will want their say!

Zeldpie? Do you want to have the proper meetings, investigations, environemtal impact studies, and hearings required to protect "Mother Earth" or do you want a bridge built in a year? You can't have both. Or, yes you can, with lots of waste, graft, suppressed studies, suppressed lawsuits, overtime, premiums, and a disregard of local neighborhoods!

This is going to be a HUGE political mess! So, besides possible Pawlenty-Moulnau issues, there will be huge microscope on the process of building this bridge. Especially if one politcal party tries to make too much hay over this and goes for the big power grab.

*Zpie shakes fist at the ol' Mississippi.

GD Mother Nature!! F**k you, Old Man River!

I have a question? I light of the bridge falling do you think the Sierra club will stop opposing a new bridge being built to replace the aging Stillwater lift bridge?

Plus most cars to day are lighter than the ones built back in the cities.

A demonstration project that includes tolling on 35W has been in for approval since the bid was sent in earlier this year. We have a good shot at getting it because the I-Pass system could be extended at a fraction of the cost of other competing cities with no such experience.

• Tolling: Implementing a broad congestion pricing or variable toll demonstration;
• Transit: Creating or expanding express bus services or bus rapid transit (BRT), which will benefit from the free flow traffic conditions generated by congestion pricing or variable tolling;
• Telecommuting: Securing agreements from major area employers to establish or expand telecommuting and flex scheduling programs; and
• Technology & operations: Utilizing cutting edge technological and operational approaches to improve system performance.

http://www.fightgridlocknow.gov/upas.htm

http://kstp.com/kstpImages/PollPrint.pdf

*catching up, in reverse order*

Gary, can you share the story link that accompanied the poll results?

Thanks for pointing that out, Tim.

Not sure about the dynamics surrounding the Stillwater bridge will be affected or otherwise changed, Charles, but let's keep an eye on it.

"There is no doubt that in the end heads will roll. That's the nature of politics." -Christopher B. That's one efficient way to sum it up, Christopher.


To address some of the rest of the issues here: In my face-to-face discussions with people, Sustainability is a major concern. All aspects of that come up, from clean-up to preventing construction waste impact to building a solid structure that simply works for transit and as part of Minneapolis.

Flag me if I'm missing other points or questions.

I think Molnau is getting some real heat now.

http://kstp.com/article/stories/S161655.shtml?cat=1

Thanks... off to read it now.

Hopefully we get the gas tax finally approved, and get some of the facts about officials using money set aside for road repair for their own pet projects.
As much of a disaster as this is (And I knew one of the victims) hopefully in the long run it's a wakeup call about the state of the American transportation system as a whole.
This was a bridge in Minnesota, that was down to 2 lanes. What if it was a major bridge in NYC? Or Chicago? Or San Francisco?

Between all the regressive taxes and the bonding that is currently on the table, I am fronkly not that much in favor of any of them. Income tax would get my vote, maybe with the majority against a gas tax they could move in that direction.

The only regressive fees that I like, are the ones that most people just don't understand. Congestion pricing, like my earlier post, and a milage tax, which the Governor has pushed for since his first campaign.

I am an advocate for automated transit, grade separated rail modes like subway and suspended monorail, but light rail and BRT are what people know about. Any wake up call about the state of transportation will move the discussion to light rail and BRT, maybe to bike lanes, but that's about it.

Molnau was in China on MnDOT business, not on a trade mission -- she says that she was there invited by MIT to present on traffic congestion...

My question: Why a part-time head of MnDOT?