Do you have a Thanksgiving or holiday meal dilemma? A turkey-related question? Curiosity about some holiday trivia?
This is your chance to ask Lynne Rossetto Kasper of The Splendid Table (and her guests) those troublesome Thanksgiving questions just in time for Turkey Confidential airing live, Nov. 23rd from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m. ET.
We'll try our hands at answering questions here, but if you're willing to talk on the radio let me know. I'm looking for volunteers!
________________________
Julia Schrenkler
American Public Media Interactive Producer


Comments: 62
In the Middle Atlantic region, many families find it important to use oysters in the Thanksgiving menu--oyster stew for the soup course, or oyster casserole with the turkey, or oyster stuffing in the turkey. I've done all of them different years. What items are added in other regions?
My mom wants to take us all out to a restaurant for the holiday, figuring it would be too much trouble to cook and eat at my place. That's a great offer, and I'm tempted. But at the same time, the idea of eating at a restaurant on Thanksgiving feels a bit weird to me (plus, I love having left-overs around.) I'll add here that I do love to cook and fill the house with turkey-day smells!
Two questions, really (1) Do you have any suggestions for cooking Thanksgiving with a tiny oven? Make-ahead ideas for cooking the meal in shifts? Or good sources of parts of the meal bought from outside (even the turkey?) (I live in the Twin Cities.)
Or (2) If we go the restaurant route, what places in the Twin Cities would you recommend that would have wonderful food and also feel warm and cozy? (And be open Thanksgiving Day!)
Thanks for help with this dilemma!
I wonder if Lynn would like to discuss the flavor differences between the usual grocery store bird and the "heritage" turkeys that are now available?
And what about deep frying a turkey? What kind of fat? Does brining help or hurt?
And just what is the best cranberry sauce recipe?
If she'd like, I'd be honored to talk on the radio with her.
Peace,
kmf
Thanks! Debbie
thanks!
kate
Make Ahead Turkey Gravy
4 Turkey Wings, about 3 lb.
2 Medium Onions, peeled and quartered
1 Cup Water
8 Cups Chicken Broth
3/4 Cup Chopped Carrot
1/2 Teaspoon Dried Thyme
3/4 Cup All-purpose Flour
2 Tablespoons Butter or Margarine
1/2 Teaspoon Freshly Ground Pepper
Planning Tip: Make up to 3 months ahead and freeze in an airtight container. Refrigerate 2 days to thaw. Reheat in a saucepan, whisking often.
1. Heat oven to 400°F. Have ready a large roasting pan.
2. Arrange wings in a single layer in pan; scatter onions over top. Roast 1-1/4 hours until wings are browned.
3. Put wings and onions in a 5 to 6-qt pot. Add water to roasting pan and stir to scrape up any brown bits on bottom. Add to pot. Add 6 cups broth (refrigerate remaining 2 cups), the carrot and thyme. Bring to a boil, reduce heat and simmer, uncovered, 1-1/2 hours.
4. Remove wings to cutting board. When cool, pull off skin and meat. Discard skin; save meat for another use.
5. Strain broth into a 3-qt saucepan, pressing vegetables to extract as much liquid as possible. Discard vegetables; skim fat off broth and discard (if time permits, refrigerate broth overnight to make fat-skimming easier).
6. Whisk flour into remaining 2 cups broth until blended and smooth.
7. Bring broth in pot to a gentle boil. Whisk in broth-flour mixture and boil 3 to 4 minutes to thicken gravy and remove floury taste. Stir in butter and pepper. Serve, or pour into containers and refrigerate up to 1 week or freeze up to 6 months. Makes 8 cups.
I'm planning on brining my 14 lb turkey for my turkey.. Since I'm doing a Southwest theme this year, I'll use a bunch of smoked sea salt and smoked chipotle powder to the honey and vegetable broth brine. I've been toying with throwing in a bottle of tequilla for flavor. I like the idea of balancing out the deep smokey flavors with a higher sharper flavor, but want to stay away from citrus-y flavors. Would my guests enjoy the tequilla more in margaritas than in my bird? Will the booze make the bird too mushy? Does that make it more of a marinade than a brine?
Thanks!
Food substitute for nuts can be very different than nuts: combo of sesame oil and tamari, juniper berries, cardamon seeds, caraway seeds, fennel and anise seeds, etc. But as I write, my thought is that I would try popcorn added to the stuffing after the bird is cooked; and it could be caramel corn.
Joe R.
Now my gravy question: Does Lynn recommend a Roux with fat and flour (if so what proportions) OR whisk flour into degreased pan drippings and cook that mixture to make the thickener (thus keeping fat out of the gravy altogether). I have usually done the former tradional roux. Most times the gravy is very good (madeira delgazes the pan) but on some occasions it has tasted a little greasy. Should fat and flour be equal?
#1: How to avoid "rubber chicken" & "rubber turkey"
&
#2: My tastebuds tell me that Yams + Cranberries would go well together in the same Rx (not just next to ea other on the same plate) ... anyone have a recipe to suggest?
Thanks,
Ed
There is a major turkey industry in Turlock Calif ... with PhD's employed there who do nothing but cook turkey to find the best way to do it. What I learned from one:
Get a TOM turkey ... they are bred to have the largest breast meat (I guess, if you don't like breast meat ... go for a hen?).
Roast it breast DOWN ... so the juices gravitate into the breast meat while cooking ... rather than the breast drying out if you roast it breast up.
I seal the bird's skin at about 450F for 10-15 min ... then paste it over a la Thompson's Turkey (Morton Thompson's Black Turkey - I'll post the Rx if you can't find it in a websearch) ... this seals the skin very well & most of the juices are retained. On top of that, according to Thompson's Rx ... you baste the bird every 15 min w/ a mix of giblets simmering in apple juice ... this puts a caramel glaze on the bird that eventually turns into a black hard crust. The Rx says to throw the crusty skin away ... but everyone I know fights for it.
People seem to have taken up brining in recent years ... this accomplishes a similar goal of keeping the meat moister. But there's nothing like the ritual of a "turkey party" & drafting everyone present to do a turn at basting the bird.
But ... the old combo of a big Tom, breast down, and sealed skin works very well.
Ed
Combine this with Gretchen's recommendation for getting the pinbones out of the thigh ... and you are done except for the scraps in the bottom of the plate!
Black Turkey, circa 1963
THE ONLY WAY TO COOK A TURKEY!
For about a dozen years, at the approach of turkey-eating season, I have been trumpeting to all who would listen, and to a good many who would rather not, that there is only one way to cook a turkey. This turkey is not my turkey. It is the creation of the late Morton Thompson, who wrote "Not as a Stranger" and other books.
This recipe was first contained in the manuscript of a book called "The Naked Countess" which was given to the late Robert Benchley, who had eaten the turkey and was so moved as to write an introduction to the book. Benchley then lost the manuscript. He kept hoping it would turn up -- although not as much, perhaps, as Thompson did, but somehow it vanished, irretrievably. Thompson did not have the heart to write it over. He did, however, later put his turkey rule in another book. Not a cookbook, but a collection of very funny pieces called "Joe, the Wounded Tennis Player".
This Rx is labor intensive ... it requires more attention than an average 6-month-old baby. There are no shortcuts, as you will see.
Even with help, prepping the turkey AND making the dressing will take hours. (And that doesn't count brining the bird if you want to add that!)
Do NOT start this at 9am & think it'll be ready for dinner. Chop what you can the day before ... pre-measure your spices & herbs, line up your cans by the opener. This Rx has been reformatted chronologically to make it a bit easier to deal with.
#1: Send out invites for a TURKEY PARTY (have everyone arrive when the bird goes into the oven) ... have the game on in 1 room, a chick flick on in another room ... lots of open wine & beer bottles, munchies & salad.
If you are the sole cook ... then your job is DONE when the bird gets into the oven. From then on draft slave labor from assembled friends & relatives to do the 15 min bastings. Make it a tradition.
BUYING YOUR TURKEY
Get a HUGE turkey -- I don't mean just a big, big bird, but one that looks as though it gave the farmer a hard time when he did it in. It ought to weigh between 16-30#. Have the butcher, cut its head off at the end of the neck, peel back the skin, and remove the neck close to the body, leaving the tube. You will want this for stuffing.
Also, he should leave all the fat on the bird.
THE DAY BEFORE
??? CONSIDER BRINING THE TURKEY THE DAY BEFORE! ???
SPICE/HERB BOWL: Get a smaller bowl. Into this put:
1/4 tsp basil
1 well-crushed bay leaf
2 tsp caraway seed
2 tsp celery seed
1/2 tsp chili powder
4 headless crushed cloves
1/2 tsp mace
1/2 tsp marjoram
2 tsp hot dry mustard
2.5 tsp oregano
4 Tbsp parsley
1 tsp black pepper
2 tsp poppy seed
1 Tbsp poultry seasoning
3/4 tsp sage
3/4 tsp thyme
1/2 tsp turmeric
1 Tbsp salt
1/2 tsp savory
... more will be added in the AM
THE STUFFING BOWL: In a LARGE bowl put in
3 pkgs unseasoned bread crumbs (or 2 loaves of toast or bread crumbs)
... more will be added in the AM
IT'S CRUNCH TIME
When you are ready to cook your bird
rub it inside and out with salt and pepper.
Give it a friendly pat and set it aside.
Chop heart, gizzard and liver and put them, with the neck, into a stewpan with a clove of garlic, a large bay leaf, 1/2 tsp coriander, and some salt. I don't know how much salt -- whatever you think. Cover this with ~5 C of water and put on the stove to simmer. This will be the basting fluid a little later.
About this time I generally have my 1st drink of the day, usually a RAMOS FIZZ. I concoct it by taking the whites of 4 eggs, an equal amt of whipping cream, juice of half a lemon (less 1 tsp), 1/2 tsp confectioner's sugar, an appropriate amt of gin, and blending with a few ice cubes. Pour ~2 Tbsp club soda in a chimney glass, add the mix, with ice cubes if you prefer. Save your egg yolks, plus 1 tsp of lemon -- you'll need them later. Have a good sip! (Add 1 dash of Orange Flower Water to the drink, not the egg yolks)
In the SPICE/HERB BOWL (mixed yesterday), add:
4 lg chopped onions
6 good dashes Tabasco
5 crushed garlic cloves
6 lg chopped celery
Get a huge bowl. Throw into it
1 diced apple
1 diced orange
a lg can of crushed pineapple
the grated rind of 1 lemon
3 Tbsp chopped preserved ginger (If you like ginger, double this).
Add 2 cans of drained Chinese water chestnuts.
Mix this together.
Have another sip of your drink.
Wipe your brow, refocus your eyes, get another drink -- and add to THE STUFFING BOWL:
3/4# ground veal
1/2# ground fresh pork
1/4# butter
and all the fat you have been able to pull out of bird.
About now it seems advisable to switch drinks. Martinis or stingers are recommended (Do this at your own risk - we always did!). Get a 4th bowl, an enormous one. Take a sip x2-3 min, wash your hands & mix contents of all the other bowls. Mix it well. Stuff bird and skewer it. Put leftover stuffing into neck tube.
DRESSING NOTE: I like to put a contrasting stuffing into the neck tube (use your favorite oyster or chestnut dressing). Also beware, that you will have a LOT of leftover stuffing. So put it into some bread pans & bake it in the oven next to the turkey. (I've been known to slice it & put it into sandwiches)
Preheat your oven to 500F and get out a 5th small bowl. Make paste consisting of those 4 egg yolks and lemon juice left from Ramos Fizz. Add 1 tsp hot dry mustard
a crushed clove of garlic
1 Tbsp onion juice
and enough flour to make a stiff paste.
NB: I GENERALLY DOUBLE or TRIPLE up on the paste recipe ... for a big bird.
When oven is red hot, put the bird in, breast down on the rack. Sip on your drink til the bird has begin to brown all over, then take it out and paint bird all over with paste. Put it back in and turn oven down to 350F. Let paste set, then pull bird out and paint again. Keep doing this til the paste is used up.
Add 1 qt cider or white wine to the stuff that's been simmering on the stove, This is your basting fluid. The turkey must be basted every 15 min. Don't argue. Set your timer and keep it up. (When confronted with the choice "do I baste from the juice under the bird or do I baste
with the juice from the pot on the stove?" make certain that the juice under bird neither dries out and burns, nor becomes so thin that gravy is weak. When you run out of baste, use cheap red wine. This critter makes incredible gravy!) The bird should cook ~12 min/#, basting every 15 min. Draft your friends and family.
As the bird cooks, it will 1st get a light brown, then a dark brown, then darker and darker. After ~2 hrs you will think I'm crazy. The bird will be turning black. (Newcomers to black turkey will think you are demented and drunk on your butt, which, if you've followed instructions, you are.) In fact, by the time it is finished, it will look as though we have ruined it. Take a fork and poke at the black cindery crust.
Beneath, the bird will be a gorgeous mahogany, reminding one of those golden-browns found in precious Rembrandts. Stick the fork too deep, and the juice will gush to the ceiling. When you take it out, ready to carve it, you will find that you do not need a knife. A loud sound will cause the bird to fall apart like the walls of that famed biblical city. The moist flesh will drive you crazy, and the stuffing -- well, there is nothing like it on this earth. You will make the gravy just like it as always done, adding giblets and what is left of the basting fluid.
Let the bird rest after taking it out of the oven ... maybe 20-30 min. ... before carving.
CARVING THE TURKEY:
A simple way of carving ... with the breast up ... make parallel horizontal cuts all the way to the breast bone ... up both sides of the breast ... then you just have to cut down along the breast bone to free each slice.
To carve the turkey drumstick well. It is full of "pinbones". While the meat is warm/hot, take a pair of pliers and grip and pull the little knob at the base of the drumstick. It will pull all these pinbones out in one piece, leaving the drumstick intact.
Sometime during the meal, use a moment to give thanks to Morton Thompson. There is seldom, if ever, leftover turkey when this recipe is used. If there is, you'll find that the fowl retains its moisture for a few days. That's all there is to it. It's work, hard work -- but it's worth it.
WARNING: Mixing a large variety of foods (esp fats along w/ sweets) can lead to odorific social problems. Thompson's Turkey is especially guilty of causing a need to remove yourself from close social company occasionally. However, if you wanna get rid of Aunt Martha early, this could be the key! Just make sure she isn't too tanked to get on down the road :-) For those of you who smoke cigars ... you can ignore this comment.
(What follows is not part of the recipe, but is an ingredients list to aid in shopping for this monster, or for checking your spice cabinet)
INGREDIENTS LIST
1 turkey
salt
garlic
4+ eggs
1 apple
1 orange
1 lg can crushed pineapple
1 lemon
4 lg onions
6 celery stalks
bunch of preserved ginger
2 cans water chestnuts
3 pkgs unseasoned bread crumbs
3/4# ground veal
1/2# ground pork
1/4# butter
onion juice
1+ qt apple cider
SPICE LIST
basil
bay leaf
caraway seed
celery seed
chili powder
cloves
ground coriander
mace
marjoram
dry mustard
oregano
parsley
pepper, black
poultry seasoning
poppy seed
sage
savory
Tabasco
thyme
turmeric
My question is: how many minutes per pound do I roast two turkeys at the same time in one oven? Do I use 20 minutes per pound for a 12 pound or 24 pound turkey, or is it somewhere in between?
Thankso so much and Happy Thanksgiving!
Jojo Willey
My question is: How do I know I have it in the right place? I am really worried about an over and/or undercooked turkey today! Help!
Thanks.
Dick
Fredericksen Ft. Lauderdale FL
I appreciate you, your advice and think YOU are just fabulous!!! Thanks!
Julie B did you hear Lynne's answer to that question?
I don't want to stray too far from the traditional taste of this recipe, so what do you think about my adjustment?
Thanks!
Thanks
Cooking in an oven is not the same as cooking in a deep fryer or microwave. Time to cook 2 birds is primarily a function of penetration of heat into the meat by hot air conduction as well as radiation ... and most ovens should be able to stay ahead of air cooling caused by a larger mass of meat. So timing for 2 birds should be very close to timing for a single bird ... not mass of meat in the oven.
In a fryer, too many items pull down the temp of the oil ... in a microwave, there are only so many waves & they get stopped somewhere & are out of business ... so total mass matters more in those media.
But in an oven, the temp of the meat is only a secondary factor. It WILL cause you to possibly extend cooking time ... but only by a fraction. So ... instead of (for example) 14min/#, you might go 15 or 17 min/# ... and check the thigh temperatures. Be aware that the 2 birds might NOT cook at the same rate ... it depends upon location of the heating elements & heat flow within the oven. A convection oven would minimize that variable.
>My family loves turkey dark meat, so I took Lynne's advice from a previous show and purchased a two 12LB turkeys. She suggested that the two turkeys should exchange places in the oven in order to more evenly cook the legs and thighs mid way through the cooking cycle. My two turkeys will be stuffed with bread and mushroom stuffing. I will start the temperature high (425) for 30 minutes to sear the skin, then trun it down to 325.
My question is: how many minutes per pound do I roast two turkeys at the same time in one oven? Do I use 20 minutes per pound for a 12 pound or 24 pound turkey, or is it somewhere in between?
Thankso so much and Happy Thanksgiving! Jojo Willey
I would like to adapt this recipe to use the sponge technique. Could someone provice me with the technique? Are the eggs put in after the sponge rises, when you add the rest of the flour, or are they put in along with all the other wet ingredients (food safety question)? The traditional recipe has you dissolve the shortening and sugar into the scalded milk. Would you go ahead and do this, or beat them in after the sponge rises?
I would also like some tips on the actual baking of this bread. I usually have to cover with foil to keep from becoming overly dark (like black!) in order to get the internal temp to register 200 degrees. I usually bake at 375 for about 45 -55 minutes. The recipe calls for 3 1/2 c flour, and makes 2 small to moderate sized loaves, of about 1 1/8 lb each.
It also usually takes "forever" to rise because of the general chilliness of the season. Any tips on rising bread when it's cold? I do not generally keep my house very toasty, preferring to just wear a sweater.... If it's a sunny day, sometimes I put it in the car, where it warms up pretty well, but can't always count on that. I usually make a triple batch at a time, which is quite a lot of dough, about 8 1/2 lb or so.
I make chocolate toffee for the holidays from an old Betty Crocker cookbook ('50's). It calls for butter and brown sugar to be boiled, then poured on chopped pecans and that's covered with Hershey bars, spread evenly when melted. It's cooled and broken into pieces.
My problem is a lot of the time the chocolate layer separates from the brown sugar/butter mixture some of the time after it has cooled and when I break/cut it into pieces. I've tried different methods of cooling; letting it stand at room temp for a while, putting it into the refrig, and even putting it into the freezer. None of these ways has solved the separating problem!
Any ideas?
I'm willing to ask this question on Lynne's radio program.
Thanks Julia!
Listening from Montreal, I never miss your show.
Having lived in the States for 10 years I miss the whole Thanksgiving thing. Yes we have thanksgiving here but for some reason I can't get into Thanksgiving on a Monday having to go to work the next day...
That aside, I wanted to weigh in on the Freeze-thaw-refreeze question.
From a microbiological standpoint you should know that is really not a safe practice.
Nor is it good from a quality standpoint.
You see when food is frozen there are formed ice crystals. The faster the food is frozen the smaller the ice crystals (hence iqf or individually quick frozen which is a standard practice in commercial frozen foods)
Your home freezer cannot possibly freeze anything as quickly as a commercial blast freezer.
The problem arises with the fact that when ice crystals are formed, they literally "puncture" the cells which make up the food. This leads to the release of moisture which will ultimately dehydrate the food (freezer burn) This is also why fragile and delicate foods such as strawberries go mushy when they are thawed.
If you thaw and REFREEZE the food, you are releasing the moisture and then reforming the ice crystals which only exacerbates the problem.
Now comes the microbiological concern. Bacteria (of which there are ALWAYS some even in small numbers) commonly contain toxins. These are the things that make us sick when we get food poisoning. These toxins are released when the ice crystals puncture the cells of the bacteria. Cooking can in fact concentrate and intensify the toxins and make them more dangerous.
Soooo..... thawing and refreezing is not recommended.
Thanks... for making me nostalgic for a good old fashioned American thanksgiving.
I am going to go out and buy a chicken and roast it with lots of root veg and stuffing.... yes stuffing...!!
Happy Thanksgiving!
Dan