What if Christians protested Islam? What if we marched the streets by the thousands and protested the killings of innocent people like nuns, priests and missionaries? What if when we marched we took signs that said "Islam Is Wrong!" or "Join with Jesus or DIE!" Instead of putting panties on the heads of prisoners and taking photos of them nude, what if we took them into the middle of the streets and cut off their heads and let the neighborhood watch? What if every day in our newspapers we had a cartoon called "Mohammad at the Pump" and it was a funny cartoon strip about a gas station prophet?
We have become so lame in this country that another group is able to control us, control our media and our free speech. And now it is bad to offend our enemy? Where is the logic in that?
I know a few people that are reading this cringed at my Mohammad at the Pump line. Cringing is fine, being mad is fine… but wanting to kill me, wanting to cut off my head, just because of a joke or a statement? That is insane!
In 1979 the Soviet Union went to war with Afghanistan (a country we supported). While fighting the Afghans, the Soviet Union came under the same types of attacks that we are experiencing now in Iraq and other places -- suicide bombings. The Soviet army marched into a small town from where the bombers were said to originate. When they got to the town they killed everyone in the town cut up their bodies and placed them in bags. Then they took the bodies to other towns to use them as examples of what would happen if the Soviet Union was attacked again.
I am not saying that we need to go to that extent, but we do need to get as serious about this war. Serious is not running away and retreating to America, serious is not worrying about offending our enemies and serious is not checking 89 year old grandmothers at the airport. This is not something that we all can just walk away from and cross our fingers in hope of peace. It is not going to happen. They do not want peace, they want you dead.
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Comments: 99
I don't really have an acceptable or PC solution to fighting the terrorists/enemy other them just fight them with everything we have. This always reminds me of a saying we had in the Army; Find 'em, fix 'em and kill 'em. Worked in training I wonder why it doesn't today?
100 years ago the West began to exploit the Middle East for oil. We supported whatever despot necessary to keep if flowing and poured vast amounts of the world's wealth into region without a care for the long term effect. With our wealth the region has the luxury of extremism, the funding for weaponry and communication to focus on radicalism. The events of the Middle East today are the natural extension of Western imperialism.
Yesterday over 100,000 people wept for joy upon viewing and hearing the Hizbollah cleric make his bogus claims for victory. This is in Beruit, the most western of all Middle East nations. Many more could not attend. Should we kill them all? Could we capture the "leaders" and torture them? Would it help to cut them up in pieces, spike their heads on posts, line a 100 miles of road with them nailed to crosses like the Romans did to Spartacus and his men? Ship them off to GitMo for waterboarding?
We are engaged in a crucial break of faith with our own principals of justice and rule of law. When our founders laid down the Bill of Rights and the Constitution it was in a world of torture, lawlessness and kingly governments who made war arbitrarily for land and greed. Our system was once the light and hope of the world. What have we become?
Essentially, this conflict is between two groups who think they both have the "right" way. As long as there is no attempt on either part to step back, and say, "Well, lets rethink this" there will probably never be a solution. I know that I am greatly simplifying the issue, but you've got to start somewhere.
Anyone can claim anything they can pronounce. Anyone can profess to be devout. Any theology can be distorted or misconstrued by humans. Please treat members of organized, or non-organized religions as you would like to be treated yourself; fairly and objectively.
There are innumerable ways to link people together in our minds. By nationality, race, political persuasion, gender, color of eyes, etc. But the fact that you can link them in your mind, does NOT mean their minds are linked. Any grouping of people, of any significant size, will contain "good", and "bad", and everything in between. Please refrain from attributing to all members of a large group, any characteristics you think you detect in any number of members of that group. It is bigotry to do this. If you do it, you are a bigot.
Sandy, I'm truly sorry that you are bothered by Christians and their beliefs. And it's probably a good thing that you live here in America because the Islamic religion wouldn't say "nanabooboo" they would just shoot you in the head.
Yes, the Russians did lose that war. And I think that we fight until there is nowhere else to fight. The terrorist are not going to stop and they will continue to fight us no matter what we are doing. We cannot afford to lose the war like the Russians did. One day we may be faced with rebel groups like the Chechens on our borders. And you know, they don't go after the military, they go after schools and kill hundreds of children.
Or perhaps we could do like Tonia said and send the Pope… or Billy Graham over to talk to the Islamic Militants and say… "Well, let's rethink this…"
If a different way is not found then all this hatred will only feed on itself and raise yet another generation of fundamentalists - on both sides.
Thanks for the encouragement to cast aside 40 years of searching, questioning, and verifying, on your say so. If only I had known such an ultimate source of wisdom and judgement was to be found right here among mere humans such as I.
Who needs God when Ruth knows all.
I was struck with the simalarity of the Islamofacists and the Aliens in Independence day. When the President asked what do you want us to do? the Alien said," DIE!!!"
I would not have dignified this foolish article with a response, but when I noticed all the people singing its praises, I changed my mind.
Your sarcastic retort, John, only serves to prove my point, arrived at after more than 80 years of "searching and verifying", by the way...as does Cheryl's reference to "Him", equating the vastness of the Universal Mind with that most infinitesimal of microcosms, the human animal, on this tiny speck of dust that is the Planet Earth.
Your summary condemnation of Muslims is a disgrace to the label Christian. Christ said; judge not lest ye be judged, and you are not only judging people you do not know, you are also intentionally trying to insight others to join you in this. Your constant refrains about how dangerous another religion is, using broad brush generalizations, and a neurotic recitation of a tragic event, display a deep lack of faith in God, and his love of man. Please consider His declaration, and cease with your shameful displays of panicky cowardice;
Behold !
the Lord's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save:
neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear.
So let me understand clearly; you feel perfectly fine about insulting billions of people you never met, passing judgement on their spiritual integrity, and declaring the ultimate truth about mankind, life, and God. Yet all are to remain silent about your blatant hypocrisy? Fascinating, and certainly a thoughtful inducement to sway me away from my hard won faith.
This article was a good one because it showed us how it would feel to switch places. It showed us the extremes.....on both sides.....and it encouraged me to become more involved in what I believe in, rather than sitting idly by on the sidelines.
You may have another explanation for the following, but I can see only one;
"Last time I looked... I didn't see Christians fly 3 planes into buildings killing innocent people because of a religious belief...... know what.. I didn't see any Buddhist do it either…. Come to think of it I can't remember when the last time I saw a Rastafarian cut someone head off in the middle of town. I also can't recall the last time a Hindu walk into a wedding and blow himself up along with everyone else."
I generally try to steer clear of self-righteous proseltyzers like you, but I didn't want you to take my silence as surrender to your bible-thumping castigation. First of all, I simply stated what I have come to understand after almost a century of learning, studying and observing. Secondly, I fail to see what you call "hypocracy" in my views, nor have I requested silence from anyone who opposes them. As for being judgemental, I believe I can say with absolute certainty that you equate atheism with immoral, evil, hedonistic barbarism. Oh, but that can't be so.. after all, it was your guy who said something about "judge not....", wasn't it?
In order to aid you in your search for your hypocrisy, I offer these statements.
"Until and unless humans recognize their monumental arrogance in assuming they "know" the origin and meaning of the life force, they will continue to self-destruct."
"The matter and energy of which I am comprised "lives" on this planet, for now. It is part of the universal store that has always existed and will always exist, in one form or another."
As for being judgemental, I believe I can say with absolute certainty that you equate atheism with immoral, evil, hedonistic barbarism. Oh, but that can't be so.. after all, it was your guy who said something about "judge not....", wasn't it?
"The arab world of old was one of the most highly educated and civilized on this planet, yet the Crusaders had the gall to show up on their soil and say "Your way is wrong, ours is right, and if you don't convert right now we are going to declare holy war on you."
Tonya, I do not intend to be condensending, but, you really should brush up on your world history. The Arabs did hardly anything but steal what 'Culture' was there and 'claimed' it as their own over the centruries.
The most recent case in point is the Palestinians. A non-existant people in historical perspective, yet has spent 40 years creating themselves, and were then raped by Arafat, (BILLIONS MISSING and unaccounted for), and are now political pawns of their own Arab breatren.
The Arabs that live and work in Israel posess a higher standard or living than those in the oil-soaked regions. Do some homework before you spout Arab propaganda.
Here is C.A.I.R.'s plan for all.
Co-founder of the Council on American-Islamic Relations
(President and CEO of Silicon Expert Technologies.
A Palestinian who grew up in a refugee camp in Jordan)
"Those who stay in America should be open to society without melting, keeping Mosques open so anyone can come and learn about Islam. If you choose to live here, you have a responsibility to deliver the message of Islam ... Islam isn't in America to be EQUAL to any other faiths, but to become DOMINANT. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the HIGHEST AUTHORITY in America, and ISLAM THE ONLY ACCEPTED RELIGION ON EARTH."
AntiCAIR
Personally, I much prefer the Judeo=Christian, Old English, Monroe Doctrine, U.S Constitution, et al., of handling OUR affairs of government and Law.
Here is an amazing document I do not believe ANYONE in this country has been made aware of: "Open Letter by Arab and Muslim Intellectuals to President Bush Calling for Promoting Democracy in the Middle East and North Africa"
MEMRI
Terrorist bombers are college educated and come from prosperous families, not broken homes. Most are not raised in a particularly religious family. "It's all really group dynamics." (Dr. Marc Sagerman "Understanding Terror Networks"). He also stated "moral relativism is the disease of our time". It is wrong to describe one man's fredom fighter as another man's terrorist. He calls it simply a "mutation of a social movement."
Ford Rowan: Chrmn. of Nat'l Center for Critical Incident Analysis.
"This is not about HEARTS and MINDS; That is the wrong way to think about it.
It's really about RECRUITMENT of supporters or Alienation of supporters. It is a WAR OF WILLS. . .to weakent the resolve of the WEST and to recruit Jihadists over there"
C-Span 2: The Middle East Conflict and the Media: Challenges for Journalists, Government, and the Public (8/21/06)
PotomacInstitute
Not just because we would wrongly accuse innocent people, but because in so doing, we actually provide support for terrorist recruiters. They can then point to our antagonistic statements (always picking the juiciest, I assure you) to convince folks that are hesitant to support these creeps that we are indeed an enemy of Islam. And, that we're bound to attack them, and need to be shown how hard Muslims will fight.
Rather, if we are constantly focusing our rhetoric on the terrorists themselves, and the repulsive nature of their actions, we allow for many would be terrorists to hear the falseness of the radical mullahs hateful speech.
I sense that many who push for us to see this as a great war of religion, are simply frightened or violent in nature. Many do not realize the horror of war, and the suffering of millions, or even billions, that will come if we do not seek peace with Islam in general.
"Political Islam is not a threat," Nakhleh, who retired from the CIA in June, said in an interview posted on the web site of Harper's magazine. "The threat is if the people become disenchanted with the political process and democracy, and opt for violence."
Islam rose out of the cosmopolitan market center of Mecca in the 7th century. It spread and fostered from Asia to Europe some of the most modern ideas about society, women, wealth and progress of its age. When the Europeans were living in mud huts, mired in superstition, the Arabs were remaking the world and advancing thought in untold ways. For several centuries, Arabs did not seek to convert Christians or Jews to Islam. The vast majority of those who became Muslims were converted by non- Arabs. The Islamic revolution ultimately failed to transform the social relations of the societies where it triumphed. These old ways did find their way back into Islamic societies and systems of thought. But ultimately it was invasion and colonization from without that distorted Islam, the made it turn inwards, a product of a society whose development was held in check by Europeans. And at every turn when local populations have sought to determine their own future, the West has prevented them from doing so. The history of the last centuries is testament to that.
The majority of Muslims live in Islamic nations that are democracies, and the average annual growth of GNP is 7.7%. Yet Muslims are, in the name of a War on Terror being demonized as a group for bringing terrorism" to the west.
The effect of this demonization is to increase the climate of racism .It is necessary to understand why millions have been drawn under the banner of Islamism in the Middle East and elsewhere. In the context of oppressive dictatorships serving as puppets to the to US enormous political vacuum, Islamism has been able to tap into the hatred for imperialism that exists among the millions in the region. Its growth is due primarily to anti-imperialism, not to religion. Islamism has to seen as a social — not simply a religious — phenomenon. It is a force in politics in the Middle East that cannot be ignored. In understandiing Islamism, we must recognize both its anti-imperialist character, and the dangerous policies carried out in the name of Islam by reactionary leaders. To label Islamist parties "terrorist groups" when most have national aims and do not sponsor terrorism is failure of US foreign policy and counter productive. To make such claims to justify the invasion of an oil-rich , secular Arab state is Orwellian - or "Rovian" propaganda. It has indeed created factional strife in Iraq that had not existed and bred terrorists in Islamic countries.
Don't bother to respond. I'm not interested in reading any more of your dogmatic, pre-digested rhetoric. Let me know if you come up with an original thought.
You have access to all the writing I ever did on Gather; Feel free to point out anything like "dogmatic, pre-digested rhetoric".
Why We Are Violent
You said, "I am Christian. I am sorry that Mark feels that way and wish I could share my views on it with him, but I know I can sometimes get pushy and therefore I won't."
I say, "Oh, thank you!"
Osama bin Laden (may there be a special place in Satan's heart for his sorry soul):
Described his little joy club not as al Qeada. but, "a World Islamic Front for Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders" (AKA Christians). 1998 http://fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/980223-fatwa.htm
Muhammad was a warrior and preached from the get-go that Allah the MOON god and Gabriel in 610 told them to take up arms. Mecca rejected him. He cursed his uncle. "May the hands of Abu Lahab perish! May he himself be burnt in a flaming fire, and his wife, laden with faggots, shall have a rope of fibre around her neck" (Qur'an 111:1-5). Reckon something lost in translation?
In 622 Mahammad got outta Dodge (Mecca) and hit Medina. There the launched attacks on caravans from Mecca, the Quraysh who had rejected him. He destroyed them soon after in one of his FIRST battles, the battle of Badr. ..."persecution is worse than killing". (2:214)
Here the birth of Islam: "Those who reject Islam are "the vilest of creatures" 98:6 - no mercy.
ANYONE who insults or even opposes Muhammad or his people deserves a humiliating death - by BEHEADING if possible. (Allah's command to "smite the necks" of the "unbelievers." Qur'an 47:4
Naw, it was George Friggin Bush and American Imperialism that "created the terrorists"!
"It is the divinely duty of ALL Muslims to fight in the literal sense until MAN_MADE law has been replaced by God's law, the Sharia, and Islamic law has CONQUERED the ENTIRE WORLD." Ibn Warraq.
To Save us ALL from damnation, the passage in Tafsir Uthmani (Koran commentary),
"if a country doesn't allow the propagation of Islam to its inhabitants in a suitable manner or CREATES HINDERANCES to this, then the Muslim ruler would be justified in waging jihad against this country, so that the message of Islam can reach it's inhabitants, thus saving them from the Fire of HJahannum (Hell). If the Kuffaar (unbelievers) allow us to spread Islam oeacefully, then we would NOT wage Jihad against them". http://www.islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=12128.
Muhammad says he has been "commanded to fight against people": I have been ordered by Allah to fight against the people until they testify that none has the RIGHT to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and perform As-Salat (prayers) and give Zakat, so if they perform all that, then they save their lives and properties form me except for Islamic laws, and their reckoning (accounts) wiil be with (done by) Allah". hadith collections Bukhari, vol 1, book 8, no. 392; vol 4, bk 56, no. 2946; vol 9, book 88, no. 6924; vol 9. bk 96, nos. 7284-85 and others. Damnit- I thought it was OIL!
Robert Spencer "Politicaly Incorrect Guide (PIG) to Islam and the Crusades) READ IT and quit swallowing the big, fat, Islamic fundamentalist's lies.
Maybe when Islam is in control of the world you will be lucky and not get beheaded, you will just have to pay a tax to be non Muslim
Remember that it was Bush who said he was inspired by God to invade Iraq. The death of over 100000 Iraqis fits that statement above quite appropriately.
Yeah, right.
On several occasions I have had people in web forums say that the only solution to any conflicts that exist between the West and Islam is to take Muslims and to (quote, now) kill them all.
On another thread I pointed that racist reich wing hatemonger Michael Savage openly called on his nationwide radio broadcast for the extermination of 100 million Muslims. But not one Christian professing group raised their voices in outrage. Yet, Christians refer to Jesus as the "Prince of Peace".
I also pointed out that it was the West who has repeatedly invaded Islamic countries for the past 150 years and killing MILLIONS of Muslims without these countries retaliating even once. That is a fact whether you choose to believe it or not.
Why the conflict?
Because it was started and perpetuated by the West. Islam did not start any conflict with the West:
Iran + Iraq did not invade England.
Indonesia did not invade Holland.
Tunisia did not invade Italy.
Lebanon did not invade France.
Chechnya did not invade Russia.
In each instance it was the Western power that invaded and killed innocent Muslims. For you and other hate filled pundits to insist that it was Muslims who threw the first punch and who has no right to claim some form of redress proves that it is you who is demonstrating the lack of intelligence and your bigotry.
Put yourself in the place of someone whose family and culture has been repeatedly victimized by alien powers. What the hell would you do if you the one suffering? Would you continually invite the aggressors to repeatedly attack you and your family again and again?
Come to your sense if you have any. It was not the Muslims who started this mess. And it's time for them to have redress of their grievances. If you are a true Christian you would demand no less for them.
Bush wanted Bin Laden dead, so he bombed the living hell out of the East. Now what he's actually gone and done, is make Bin Laden an absolutely worthless criminal. Worthless in that it won't solve anything by catching him. Bush gave him the platform, and Osama has created thousands of more Osama's.
grateful 1,
If you are saying that american imperialism is a myth, you should say that. it appears that you are either claiming that imperialism is a myth or saying that imperialism has a low likelyhood of jump-starting and fanning the flames of terrorism. Are either of these an accurate summation of your feelings? I would be interested in hearing your defense of either argument.
THIS IS WHAT I AM SAYING, NO our Imperialism did not start this crap, It is centuries old and several other Cultures have faced it. We sometimes support the lesser of two evils. We have ideals that have created the most awe-inspiring and prosperous culture that may ever graced the earth. We give BILLIONS with no strings attached. We make errors that historically prove themselves wrong. To imply we are interested in making others our pawns or sevants defies logic. YES, we believe in FREEDOM. We presume others will embace it if given the opportunity, that has been proven quesitonable. We have the ecomomic and tech resources that if we wanted COLONIES, we could bankrupt them or isolate them to a point of surrender or finance coups and never fire a shot. The motives you all wish to pin to the United States is only chic among some of the most cynical and hypocritical assholes to ever grace the earth, eg Michael Moore, Noam Chomsky, Jane Fonda, George Soros, MoveON-ites, etc. All PROPEROUS AND FREE TO MOCK AND VILIFY THE MOST GRACIOUS COUNTRY ON EARTH! Put them in any number of nations and vomit their filth and see how long before they see a noose, a gun to their ear, or the basement of a prison forever. Or just go poof! THEY ALL benefit, even you and your sharp=dressed man allure. on the blood spilled by hundreds of thousands of our own. They and I'm convinced Cindy Shee-nan-i-gan's son would say so succinctly:"I may not agreee with what you say (or behave), but I defended to my death the right for you to say and be as big as a whinny nincompoop as you see fit."
Qur'an Quotes AGAIN:
ANYONE who insults or even opposes Muhammad or his people deserves a humiliating death - by BEHEADING if possible. (Allah's command to "smite the necks" of the "unbelievers." Qur'an 47:4
Naw, it was George Friggin Bush and American Imperialism that "created the terrorists"!
"It is the divinely duty of ALL Muslims to fight in the literal sense until MAN_MADE law has been replaced by God's law, the Sharia, and Islamic law has CONQUERED the ENTIRE WORLD." Ibn Warraq.
CAIR AGAIN:
Co-founder of the Council on American-Islamic Relations
(President and CEO of Silicon Expert Technologies.
A Palestinian who grew up in a refugee camp in Jordan)
"Those who stay in America should be open to society without melting, keeping Mosques open so anyone can come and learn about Islam. If you choose to live here, you have a responsibility to deliver the message of Islam ... Islam isn't in America to be EQUAL to any other faiths, but to become DOMINANT. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the HIGHEST AUTHORITY in America, and ISLAM THE ONLY ACCEPTED RELIGION ON EARTH."
AntiCAIR
OSAMA AGAIN:
Described his little joy club not as al Qeada. but, "a World Islamic Front for Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders" (AKA Christians). 1998 http://fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/980223-fatwa.htm
Being NEITHER don't sweat it, just dust up on your Koran and enjoy. I am sure they will be eager to discuss with your concerns regarding their brand of IMPERIALISM!
Why We Are Violent
"We have the ecomomic and tech resources that if we wanted COLONIES, we could bankrupt them or isolate them to a point of surrender or finance coups and never fire a shot. "
the leaders of your movement are smarter than that. Although they would maintain the support of people like you while running such a campaign, they would not be able to maintain the support of most of the conservatives in america. many conservatives in this country are conservative because of morals, and you have to trick those kind of people into immoral action.
If your desires are realized, i have no doubt that this country will destroy itself much faster than any terrorist could have. I wonder if Islamic terrorists are possibly Brialliant enough to have forseen or even imagined how well their dreams would be realized. You are an answer to a terrorist prayer.
The only question that remains: Who will be Hitler, what will be your symbol, and will their be anyone alive on this earth at the end of it all to prosecute you and your movement for your crimes against the entire ascent of Man - from a glimmer in the Universe's eye to the potentially loving, caring, peaceful, spiritual creatures we are today?
But I know not how, because those that really need the message I would offer, will neither understand nor accept it. That is the real problem in our world, there is a large segment that just does not get it. In fact they never will, as long as they live in fear, attempting to destroy that which they so fear. Fear just begets more fear !
But put a gun or bomb in their hand, and watch them attempt to instill more fear in others. Terrorists are fearful within themselves, and their 'victims' are just the fearful responders to their actions. Like begets like, action begets reaction, ad infinitum. Fearful leaders and fearful followers need each other, their relationship is that of authoritarianism. From such came Nazism and Fascism, our present leadership seems to very much desire their own neo-con version of that.
Their owned and controlled media empire is actively promoting such, especially FauX. The entire terrorist threat is blown so out of proportion as be ridiculous. The numbers involved on either side are insignificant by comparison to the totals of people potentially involved.
All of the fear generated is very intentional. That offered up by our own so-called 'leadership', is only meant to serve their greater interest of controlling their subjects, their own followers included. Yet it is the stupidity and ignorance of those followers that allow them to be so duped, and their egos insist that only they know the truth of their perceived dangers along with the answer for it, simply kill it.
They are not all that far away from hating their 'opponents' (as they see anyone resisting their ideas) to the degree of killing them/us. That is what the ..ism's will often result in, just let their leader give the word, and they will blindly and madly obey. Fear, fear, and more fear ... that is their modus-operandi .
Described his little joy club not as al Qeada. but, "a World Islamic Front for Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders" (AKA Christians). ~~
And if you know anything about Islam you would know that fatwas can only be declared by Islamic religious hierarchies. OBL has no such recognition and represents on one but himself.
For you to believe that this quote validates your viewpoint is tantamount to saying that reich wing Hitlerian Michael Savage's call for the extermination of 100 million Muslims represents the exclusive Judeo-Christian viewpoint.
Try again.
We live in (about 4 years now) a very red area of a very red state and though our ideas are quite moderate, they are considered far left by any such as our 'neighbors' that are so far right as to consider anyone that does not agree 100% with them to be liberal whackos. So naturally, our 'friends' do not know our sentiments or we would probably have no 'friends' in this area of the north woods.
But getting back to the story, they all began upon arrival the usual rant about the problems in the world as they see them, the terrorists and those that love them ... meaning anyone that does not want to kill off all Muslims. (these 'friends' are all 'good' church going evangelical types). I know better than to speak up around them, so I bite my tongue in silence as they rant. One of those rants contained the name of Savage and that he has a good idea about 'us people' (listeners) getting together and doing something about it (doing away with the 'enemy') ... not all that far from forming a militia it seemed. I do not doubt that they probably already exist in areas such as this.
At least I have no real fear of such, concerns ? you betcha ! The polarization is ongoing, maybe increasing at an exponential rate. It is driven simply by fear. The only thing that can reverse the process of that is more love, the opposite of fear.
So whichever 'side' acts in either direction, there will be a reaction as like begets like. The problem is that in this world that knows so much about fear and so little about love, the normal expectations is all around the former (fear) and thus even acts of love are suspect and seldom trusted due to the long history of treachery and false pretense. But it must start somewhere !
Peace, j.
Peace, j.
There are so many holes in his historical reckoning it is hard to know where to begin. But usually when challenged these types bluster then evaporate to spew somewhere else again.
To claim America has not engaged in imperialism is to say the sun does not rise in the east or set in the west. To claim the aggression of Islam is not due to 100 years of callous exploitation by Western oil interests says day is night and night is day. To say Christianity is unlike Islam in evangelizing is to never attend a Baptist revival, never read of the Crusades or listen to conservative radio.
America will live out the consequences of injustice. It is the natural order, the mathmatics of history. We can change our fate by adhereing to our own basic principals of human justice and dignity or we can continue to dupe ourselves and pursue the dogma of exploitation and aggression. Justice will be served in either way.
What is the definition of Islamics Cat?
And what other massive flaws? Just because you do not agree with my article does not mean it is flawed.
Well said!!! I think I love you!! ;-)
Josh J's comment reprinted, this time with his sources
LOL, Mohammed @the pump, oh that is awesome, I think that we should find a cartoonist to do it*. I dont think it would be to hard to find someone**. but seriously, protests against islam is just asking to set the world on fire, they have such a strong foothold in the western world today***. we would be asking for war in the streets of most major countries ****. in the USA today we have more muslims than quwait and lebannon combinded^. As im reading articles^^ and see the muslims in america trying to establish their own religious law^^^, like they have in canada...^^^^they are slowly forcing us to bow down to their culture^*, just like the nutjob^*^ pres. of Iran said we would
* once in 9th grade I posted a bunch of porn on cars outside a catholic church to offend a lot of people; it was pretty fun
** a couple other kids helped out with the porn incident and they all still live with their parents so I could call 'em up
*** Bill O'Reilly
**** Bill O'Reilly's Ass
^ More people with heartattacks in US than Iceland and greenland, heart attacks are bad
More attack dogs in US than in tonga and samoa -- attack dogs are bad
More Muslims in USA than in Lebannon and Quwait - Muslims are bad!!
^^ Rob L's article, which cites Tom L.'s article, which sites Grateful 1's article, which sites my article.
^^^ I saw some mofo kneeling down and praying on the goddamn sidewalk- this is America and we have a constitutional right to be Christian. Does it say Islam anywhere in the constitution? No, I didn't think so…
^^^^I love this line for arguments that have no factual base
^* Muslims in the U.S. are like gays. They seem nice, but in the end all they really want is equal rights.
^*^ Sean Hannity REPORTED that he was a Nutjob, and I DECIDED not to ask why
J. Knight, Chris W. and others have very clearly pointed out that you have lumped a massive religion with doctrine into the pot with Al Quaeda and other extremist groups. The fact that you don't possess functional definitions for much of the jargon you toss around, that's what makes this flawed, not my opinions.
Nonsense. Ideologies have always been fought by military muscle. They don't always win, granted. We fought Nazism and a few more "ism's" out there and won. What matters for the US is being good. When America stops being "good" we will lose. America's idea, for the most part, is to be "Good" AND use our military resources.
Always remember, War is not the solution, it is just a means to an end.
Visions of Nazis... how deep.
The end of war is death an misery.
That's what it seeks. That's what it bears.
Those who promote it are violent.
And that end is war profit$.
If that does not use up enough stocks of material, we can always involve ourselves directly into such frays and then we can get a certain segment of our voting public scared enough to vote for ever more funding of the programs. If then things slow down too much, increase the fear level by whatever means it takes. The programs must be funded and the people will sacrifice anything, even their constitutional rights to ease their current fears.
The rich get richer and the poor get dead ! What more could our leaders ask for? Maybe the support of their right-wing dupes that keep kissing their asses.
Many people here mentioned that Soviet Union lost the war. This is the truth, but not all of the truth. The Rusians didn't just fight against "fundamentalism", they fought in part against the American millions, and in part against themselves. High KGB officials didn't alkways have in mind the interest of the Russian army. At times, they fought indirectly against the Russian military intelligence agency, the GRU, to pursue their political interests. The theme should be familiar to the Americans: CIA versus FBI and all that is involved with secret services. When Russian field commanders had a free hand, they often got their goals achieved. In fact, in spite of the heavy casualties, they were about to win the war. The regime of, what's his face, Nagibulla, I think, managed to exert remarkable control over about 80 percent of the territory when the Soviet army exited it. However the regime needed money to sustain its needs, simple oil for the tanks would do. The Russians didn't provide them at the 80s, their public opinion demanded complete estrangement from Afghanistan, and Gorbachev delivered. Pakistan on the other hand, supported by the American money, funded the Mojahedin in their rebellion against Nagibulla. So, once again, the fighting was merely a test of patience and while Russian army won that battle, the politicians managed to lose it for them. The same happened with the French in Algier, when they still had political will, uninfected by the weakness of De Galle. Same happened to US in Vietnam. Same happened to Israel with Egypt, Syria and Lebanon in different years. Every time, fundamentalism is supproted by something. It cannot grow in vacuum. It is always supported by some kind of non Moslem power. In the old days, those were merely Soviet Union and China. Now France and Germany joined them.
So, we shouldn't talk about the impossible to fight against fundamentalism. It is very possible. Turkey has been doing it for years. The only requirement is that of perseverence in spite of (most importantly)non Muslim resistance. Right now US fights no only military but politically against great parts of the world. Just look at the entire UN machine. At this moment it is working against the American interests. So, yes, it is hard to fight against that many enemies on so many fronts that seem to creep even from inside. I know it is possible to win the war. I don't if we are going to. All historical examples seem to be negative in that respect. In most of the cases, people lost their patience and brought about their own downfall. In a sense, I appreciate the existence of fundamental Muslims in this world. They may be more dangerous than your regular kind of fly, but they are more functional too. They are the ones who set apart the strong from the weak. It is not about the power of weapons. It is about the emotional power. It is about taking the hardest but the only possible stand. Whoever holds to the last will win. The Arabs have proved they have the necessary power of will. It might stem from their dogmas, and fanatism, but they have it. The most important question is, do we as a whole, have it too? Or have we become weak? If so, then maybe they are right. Maybe we do need to be dominated by them. Only the strongest survives after all. That's not Darwin, that's nature.
Ishamael
"Now Jane, you ignorant slut" (D. Akyod-SNL)
THAT is EXACTLY why "O" really took a big hit with many of his Jihadist cohorts!
He also failed to offer the required "warnings" to convert (1-3) depending on shira or sunna law and the offer to pay the "religious" tax to the master muslims. He received his BLESSING from the "Blind Shiek" who was jailed in NYC for the first WTC bombing. His LAWYER carried the message to 'O' to attack the U.S. (ANOTHER Clinton admin. failure for not monitering his contacts).
Many Jihadists were VERY pissed that he did what he did because instead of weaking our resolve, and allowing more integration and striking in volume inside America,;They found the U.S. chasing their collective asses down in the woods, hills, mountains, deserts and their safe zones.
He brought WAY TOO MUCH ATTENTION and they suffered greatly. They lost cooperative financing from corrupt and fearful govenmental leaders. Iran stuck it's head up just to see if any one would shout "Hey there"! They found they could push the envelope.
Now, a young Egygptian cleric has delivered a 'fataw' for no more than 10 MILLION infidels to be taken out. "O" or his mouthpiece have issued 3 seperate and distinct warnings to the U.S. and the Bush Admin. The RELIGIOUS requirements have been met.
There is an FBI 10 MW seeking a known terrorist "The Pilot", I won't take the time to get the specifics, do your own homework to prove yourself more RIGHT. It is believed he has smuggled a NUKE into our country. It has been quietly reported that Muslims have been encouraged to leave the US ASAP, NY and Washington specifically. DON"T PANIC< BE HAPPY.
Sam C: Yes I believe we are the best of the best. It is my belief it is because we founded this country on a MIRACLE document- the Constitution. We founded it on principles of Judeo-Christian fundamentals summed up in the society and history we have been blessed with. To whom much is given much will be required.. This is OUR time and OUR destiny to face force with force. We will bloody their noses and all else required. Many less will die here and elsewhere because we care to fight. Yes, people will profit, many more will suffer some losses of conviences and comforts, which have been taken for granted.
I refer you to the song of the Marines: "To the shores of Tripoli." Now you arrogant dunce, just what the hell do you think that referred to? (Tripoli is Iran FYI - I'll give you a head start. We did not do that military action except to ensure free trade to the rest of the civilized world.
It is so apparant that the "enlightened" such as Chomsky, whom I sure you learned to worship at his throne in our Higer Educational cesspools, has made MILLIONS ON PENTAGON contracts given to MIT whose Dept. he chairs. (READ Do As I Say...Not As I Do, ALL your liberal gods are doing you all anally, and you just grin and hold the jar of lube for them).
What arrogant, hypocritical beneficiaries of the same system they publically denigerate! You have the right to rationalize and justify any action as self-seeking of the few. I believe many more have benefited from our actions and generousity. Nothing will EVER advance by isolationism. BILLIONS know freedom because of the U.S. "IMPERIALISM" over the course of history.
We are blessed because GOD still has his hand on our nation! We are blessed because we support and help defend Israel. Those who bless Israel will be blessed, those who curse it, cursed. The Liberals need to remove GOD to instill the throne of Self-Interest. To whom makes the most noise and whines the loudest, and can afford the BEST LAWYER, or via the ACLU, wins.
To hell with the best interests of the mass to the detriment of the few. You want it flipped. To do so you must remove absolutes to moral codes and behaviors. Each man his own judge and jury. Self-rightous and self-contained.
Then and ONLY then can every action be justified or rationalized. No consequences. It's not hurting any one but me...and so on.
No I do not run from little people Sam. I pray for your sorry, empty souls, and LOVE to bicker.
Later.
i understand now that we simply operate in different mindsets. How long do you think it will be before this country becomes a theocracy or a military state? I realize you don't think this is a bad thing, and i want to know how long the rest of us have?
1) I got one of the best laughs I've had in a whilefrom you post...good stuff sir, if there is one thing dems are good at it's lame observational childish humor...LOL,,whewww
2) The opinions based herein these boards are entirely my own and are derived of my own thoughts and moral decisions...derived from none, supplied by none, typed clumsily by me...
3)the articles I speak of have nothing to do with your post(you give yourself WAY to much credit).You have posted nothing that could open someones minds up to you pov...instead you only reinforce my stances on alot of different topics, thank you, seriously....
4)Hopefully you higher liberal intelect let you in on the satire and sarcasm in my post that you responded to, and I will take your post with the same grain of salt.
5) I have finally found a view of yours that I can wholey agree with..."I understand now that we simply operate in different mindsets". I couldn't agree more, I take fanaticists at their word. You dismiss them as opponents of U.S. policy and you side with them because they have the same views as you...I...would like to see our country wake up, before its to late, and stand togather against the most dangerous enemy the world has ever seen...You...would like to see our entire institution burn to the ground, but hey, rome didnt fall in a day, keep up the good work :P
I wish i believed in god so that when the world explodes - you know, after a couple terrorist attacks kill somehwere in the realm of 5 - 20 thousand americans, leading the neocons to take over with the new Christian Military States of America, retaliate at about 500 times the death toll, force half the world to join with them and the other half to join against, burn me and liberals and nonchristians and any book containing facts that cant be backed up by God's Word, trigger a nuclear war and destroy the species (maybe their last neocon words before their faces melt off can be, "told you we wouldnt take it! You Allah loving bastards - burn in christian hell!") - so that after all this, I could see all those neocons up in heaven or down in hell and say, "HAHA! told you so, suckers!" then we could all realize that there is a nice friendly god that isn't going to burn anyone for eternity and all the muslims and all the christians and me and josh could go play cricket. since i never have.
As for therest of your comments...Ill pray for you my friend
Meanwhile, so it will be easier later because there will be fewer to deal with, they just invite us to leave the country ... after all, they think it is 'their' country, the christ nation that they want anyway. But nice people as they are, they will pray for us after they kill us. That will make it all alright...
If the oil were gone - we'd be gone as well. You don't see us fighting in Rwanda, the Congo or any of the many hotspots around the globe.