“Eskimo: “If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell”
“Priest: “No, not if you did not know.”
Eskimo: “Then why did you tell me?”
Annie Dillard
“Of all religions, Christianity is without a doubt the one that should inspire tolerance most, although, up to now, the Christians have been the most intolerant of all men”
Voltaire
“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.”
Seneca
“More people have been slaughtered in the name of religion than for any other single reason. That, my friends, that is true perversion.”
Harvey Milk
“All religions are founded on the fear of the of the many and the cleverness of the few.”
Stendhal
“I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world.”
Richard Dawkins
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Comments: 89
Awaken
A myth is a religion in which no one any longer believes. JAMES FEIBLEMAN
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. GALILEO
Say nothing of my religion. It is known to God and myself alone. Its evidence before the world is to be sought in my life: if it has been honest and dutiful to society the religion which has regulated it cannot be a bad one. THOMAS JEFFERSON
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. STEVEN WEINBERG (N. Y. Times)
The following quotes are all by my favorite author – me.
Nothing is so obvious that it can't be ignored for the sake of sound theology.
The main distinction between a truth seeker and a religionist is that when a particular truth cannot be known, nor statistical probability ascertained, a truth seeker will choose common sense probability, and a religionist will choose to err on the side of perceived safety.
"Sinner saved by grace" is a decent way to begin an eternal life. But no God would finance it, and no sentient creature would want to remain in it very long. Christianity may have been designed by God to be intellectually repugnant, so that intellectuals would outgrow it.
The God who created you is at least as wise as you are. If you find yourself worshipping a God who is not as wise as you are, assume not that you should dumb down to accommodate Him, but rather that you should wise up.
Religion at its best is a search for the least stupid alternative to nihilism.
The core of religious stupidity is putting authority (usually scripture) above sound epistemology. The soundest epistemology allows you to know the most of what is knowable without allowing you to think you know anything you don't know.
Serving your God is good only if your God is good.
Relationship with God starts with religion. But it doesn't stay there.
If you're blatantly right, the religious establishment will generally admit it – after you and everyone who called you a heretic are quite dead.
This is so true, thank you for your input - excellent
MY gods are Intelligence, Commonsense, and Acts of Kindness. Your's may have other names. We will not be led far astray, if we really listen and act. Listening is not enough. Acting is often misdirected if listening is not in place.
To be closer to the real god, if there is one? Try Eternal Empathy.
Wilka
Wilka
"More Americans believe in angels than in evolution—and Richard Dawkins isn't going to take it anymore."
My own preference is angels. Due to our lack of knowledge regarding extraterrestrial life forms it is assumed we evolved from animals on this planet, that is a limited view.
“Priest: “No, not if you did not know.”
Eskimo: “Then why did you tell me?”
Annie Dillard"
I must remember this!
Thanks!
I try hard not to comment on religion and politics as I can only tolerate one or the other yet, you pulled me in with this one.
Please read this revision, which is more to the point of any spiritual path:
Eskimo: "If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?"
Priest: "No, not if you did not know."
Eskimo: "Then why did you tell me?"
Priest: "So that you could live heaven while on earth and return to God when you leave this world."
The dictionary says: heaven –noun
1. the abode of God, the angels, and the spirits of the righteous after death; the place or state of existence of the blessed after the mortal life.
First of all, if this is supposed to be heaven we are all in trouble and secondly, If this is supposed to be heaven then where is this God you return to when you leave this world? Sorry, but this doesn't make sense.
What you return to when you leave this world is the knowledge that everyone and everything is connected to the God source and your time here is for experiencing. You have free will to create the world you want to be in. Unfortunately there are those who have abused the system by enslaving people with their versions of religion in order to control and manipulate to their own advantage. It is their free will and once you know this you can move on.
"It is been said that, when science finally peers over the crest of the mountain, it will find that religion has been sitting there all along." ~ Harry Wolper (The Creator)
"There are people who believe in God but not religion. Religion is the man-made version of spirituality, everyone makes up their own rules."
That is precisely the reality of God, Gods and man's relationship to the universe which is and will remain the "Unknown".
In pre-history and through the Greko-Roman Period, man created GODS, Then the Jewish people created God one God--the next leap is unfathomable.
I have observed that many people who eschew organized religion, claiming to be spiritual, are in fact unable to make a commitment. "I don't belong to a church, but I'm very spiritual" seems to be a cop-out statement.
I think we need to go further than church. Further than spirituality. We need to perform Acts.
Let me know what you think...?
Wilka
To answer to the idea of commitment Jan I would have to ask, what is your perception of God?
I call God ‘source.’ To define source I will use the example from a previous post where Alex Collier says, “everything here came from somewhere else.” There is order in the Universe (although it does not seem that way at times) and too much that we do not understand.
I do not believe the Darwin theory or the Adam and Eve story. I believe the Earth was inhabited by many different extraterrestrials and this seems to be at the root of misunderstanding on this planet. We do not know our own history.
I think we are in agreement. Everyone is an atheist to some degree. I do not believe in Greek, Roman, or Norse gods nor do I believe in Moon gods. Others reject Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed, etc.,
Although many people do use the "I'm spiritual" as a cop out phrase, others truly are spiritual. As the saying goes "Being in church does not make me a Christian any more than being in a garage makes me a car."
Going out to serve is just as important than going in to worship. Many generous people do a great deal of charitable community service and rarely set foot in a church.
God bless us all.
You've asked"what is your perception of God? "
Simply put, God is love. God is the source of all goodness. Personally, I believe in God, the creator, Jesus, the savior and son of God and the Holy Spirit.
When we act with love toward others, we are sharing God's love. Love is what brings peace. Kindness, mercy, forgiveness, generosity, understanding, wisdom....any and all of the virtues are part of the Big picture that is God's love.
Individual beliefs and practices vary, but most religions are built on love.
In the first quote we can say that the priest told the Eskimo about God and sin in order to control by offering the fear of hell and damnation. Can you give me any other reason?
The second quote mentions the intolerance of Christians, you must go through the son to get to the father, it is the only way - Separation and exclusion.
“More people have been slaughtered in the name of religion than for any other single reason. That, my friends, that is true perversion.”
Harvey Milk
Harvey Milk of course was homosexual and his quote is sad but true.
I spelled it out for you but you do not acknowledge these things as part of your belief system. Do you think people who do not believe Jesus is God will go to hell?
This is not love. So you understand why people are anti-religion. If you take away religion you are left with spirituality where love exists without the controlling abuse.
You have been taught to be subservient and in need of a savior and by going along with the program you are approving of the aforementioned.
No. I don't. It's not up to me, however.
"Going along with the program" is different for each individual. Had God wanted us all to be identical clones, He would not have made us the unique, individuals we are!
God's love is for everyone, Sunaura. Let's try not to make assumptions about one another's beliefs.
My assumption was that by your being a Christian you follow the doctrine, would you tell your pastor that people who do not believe Jesus is God are not going to hell?
It's unwise to assume. As Christians, we are taught that the two worst sins against God are Presumption and Despair. Presumption means pushing your luck where God's mercy and the commandments are concerned. Despair means giving up on God.
I stand by my beliefs, not copping out. I truly do not know or have any control over who will enter the kingdom of Heaven. I would never presume to predict God's choices.
Since no person of any faith has ever died and returned to tell us what it's like, we will have to wait. "We know neither the day nor the hour."
You are the one who keeps telling me I am assuming and presuming. Do you realize that I was once in your position?
I am still curious if you would tell your pastor that people who do not believe Jesus is God are not going to hell. I have raised the question to Jasper in this post, so far he has not responded, if he does I will present it to you.
"pushing your luck where God's mercy and the commandments are concerned. Despair means giving up on God." Pushing your luck is fear driven, to explain what giving up on God even means it would depend on one's definition of God. So it sounds as if you are afraid to to ask because you already know the answer.
The purpose of this post is to point out information that Christians do not acknowledge, they are content in their own little box with the fear of thinking for themselves. As long as they believe and worship they will not go to hell but to hell with the ones who suffer because of it.
"if you would tell your pastor that people who do not believe Jesus is God are not going to hell." He agrees. He has spent many years as a missionary and is a respected theologian and seminary instructor. He hosts large inter-denominational faith worship services which include non-Christians.
Our pastor is also a believer in the mercy of God. He is adamantly opposed to the death penalty and is a peaceful, wise man.
"Christians do not acknowledge, they are content in their own little box with the fear of thinking for themselves" This is a very common misconception of Christians, so don't be embarrassed, Sunaura. The Second Vatican Council introduced many fresh ideas and new translations of scripture. We are all encouraged to think and study matters of faith. I was educated for 12 years in Catholic schools and have studied many religions, traditions and beliefs. I have freely and joyfully chosen the Catholic faith.
It would be very conceited not to acknowledge and to honor all faiths and the people who believe in them. Faith journeys are individual and intensely personal, so we cannot make generalisations about any group or religion.
Peace be with you, Sunaura.
Welcome to fantasy island. Catholics are not the broad minded ones you portray. You sound very comfortable in your little world, it is a shame that millions of others are not so fortunate.
I realize that Catholics have the privilege of changing the rules whenever it suits their fancy but integrating with other beliefs is not their priority. Do they accept homosexuality? Are you excommunicated if you are divorced? Did they change the rules allowing you to go to other churches? What is their position on abortion? The reason they are against birth control is because they want more Catholics, you just keep giving them all your tithes and they will hoard it all up while billions of people go hungry.
If anyone is embarrassed it should be the Catholics, do I really have to tell you why.
your pastor would be called a priest
No. Our priest is actually a monsignor, which is a step above priest. He is the pastor of our church. He is addressed as Monsignor rather than the customary Father.
"Catholics are not the broad minded ones you portray."
How many Catholics do you know? I know hundreds. We are very open minded, although certainly some more than others. I don't think we're any different from other faiths in that way.
integrating with other beliefs is not their priority.
Wrong again. The Ecumenical Council, Vatican II, was convened with the specific goal of finding and celebrating common ground with other faiths. It has been largely successful. As I've mentioned, we have inter-faith worship services. These events include Jewish people, Eastern Orthodox Christians and others.
Do they accept homosexuality? Yes.
Are you excommunicated if you are divorced? No
Did they change the rules allowing you to go to other churches? We have never been forbidden to attend other churches.
What is their position on abortion? It is the same as all other Christian churches. All human life is sacred from conception to natural death.
I cannot imagine where you've heard the erroneous information you're posting. I have no idea why anyone would not be proud to be a Catholic. Catholic charities are the biggest and most generous in the world. We have schools, shelters, community outreach programs and worldwide missions. I am very proud to be an active part of this.
I've sensed that you have some hate toward Catholics and Christians in general, but if you became better informed, you would have a better understanding of Christianity. I hope you do study the faith.
God bless you with peace, Sunaura.
He tells about the letter of the Lady of Fatima and the horrible punishment and torment to the world due to God’ disappointment with us.
“I remember being told in second-grade Catechism that unless a baby was baptized, it would not go to heaven.”
"Go to Mass every day," Say your rosary nightly and do the Stations of the Cross often. Go to confession once a week. Do penance, and offer your suffering up to God as evidence that you have turned from sin. Receive Holy Communion. And say a Perfect Act of Contrition before going to sleep each night, so that if you are taken before you wake, you'll be worthy of joining the saints in heaven."
He was forbidden to go to his childhood babysitter’s wedding because it was in a Lutheran church. This is what the nun said to him:
"God does not want you in a heathen church, my child," the nun explained. "The people who go there do not believe as we believe. They do not teach the truth. It is a sin to attend church anywhere other than a Catholic church. I'm sorry that your friend Frankie has chosen to be married there. God will not consecrate the marriage."
"My ex was Roman Catholic and when we divorced, he told me that he was ex-communicated by his Roman Catholic church."
He must have misunderstoof. He was still allowed to partake of the sacraments. When a divorced Catholic wants to remarry, an annulment is necessary.
are you Roman Catholic? yes. I'm not familiar with an American Catholic church. Our church does allow birth control under certain circumstances.
It seems to me you have been telling me what I think and believe and I am sincerely trying to communicate love and acceptance. You have heard some things that are not true about Catholicism. Many people have lots of wrong ideas about other faiths, especially Catholicism.
Coincidentally, I am currently reading Neale Donald Walsch's book Conversations With God and I receive his daily emails. He is a wonderful, inspirational writer. My closest friend is a Unity minister and we share many beliefs. I attend prayer services at her church as well as my own Catholic church.
Because of Catholic teaching, Neale was afraid as a child? Children often misunderstand things and all have fears. As a child, my husband was terrifed by attending Southern Baptist Revival meetings. When we become adults, we are able to see clearly and understand those things.
I have no intention to hurt, mislead or manipulate you or anyone else. I hope we've cleared up some misunderstandings. I don't think you have shared your own religious faith preference. Would you like to tell us about your religion? I will read it.
presume
assume
copping out
embarrassed
hate
conceited
bashing
You would do well to focus on the material instead of judging others, this is not supposed to be Psych 101, just a simple discussion. If you wish to be analyzed then you realize that your words describe yourself. I posted quotes not judgments and left it up to the individual to decipher their own truths not by telling them they assume, etc.
Thank you for showing your position by utilizing those words on a post where an attempt has been made to rise above the very things you have represented with your words. Your sugar coating did not stick and yes we are all in the right place on our journey and you have reached the fork in the road.
God bless and enlighten you, Sunaura. May he lift your spirits and shower you with graces and blessings.
"Love is hard to find in the church of the poison mind."
The old paradigm wishes to remain in place, just be aware that religion has been exploited in order to involve people in wars and injustice.
I am not trying to change your beliefs, just pointing out some things people do not want to see. If it affects someone else it affects us all. It is just awareness, not shoving it under the rug any more. This Earth is changing, people have been kept in the dark about many things. The age of Pisces (fish) is over, this is the reason it has come to the forefront.
There are two kinds of Christians, the ones who are sincere and the ones who do not want people to know the truth. So by putting out the truth everyone knows.
I have been attacked by one who likes things just the way they are, not only are her words false but she deliberately bashes me in her feed, so you see 'Christians' are not the only ones getting the flack.
There must be something she does not want others to know concerning DNA activation and spirituality.
Sounds like your attacker has a problem with fear of change.
"There must be something she does not want others to know concerning DNA activation and spirituality."
Or fear of loss of control.
What continually surprises me about people in general is how much they fear losing control when so much of their lives isn't under their control to begin with. I think the fear comes in when they start to recognize that fact.
No subtext intended, by the way. You and I might differ--vehemently--on the subject of vaccinations but in this area we're not that far apart.
Peace.
and the conversation that followed is even more enlightening re: the human condition~
thank you~