The people who are fighting the 911 Myth

Thank you for this. The letter is a bit paranoid, I think. 9/11 happened because of Osama bin Laden and his orchestrations. When you can find people who will kill themselves for a cause just about anything can happen. These 9/11 myths bother me. Our government was not involved in Pearl Harbor either. This person sounds delusional to me.

Gee Joe;

If you only took time to read! Nobody ever said your government was not involved in Pearl Harbor, yet the fact is, the attack was known beforehand by Roosevelt & allowed to happen to give the American people reason to go into WWII in my opinion. You can believe what you wish, yet that is what I come up with my research.

Now if you can do some research & show me how Bin Laden was in any way connected to 911... then you will get the "Golden Cookie of Today Award", because you could have gotten the Taliban to hand him over with such proof!

Anyway Joe... don't do research... hell don't even read... as you know the answers right?

It's whatever George Bush tells you.

Yep but their suits are more colorful now.

my girlfriend crying & saying "The USA is under attack", my first response was "It's about time"!
Reading this says it all, you are just a miserable asswhole.
WE deserved to be attacked and then you spout shit about it being a myth..
The myth is that you are a sane person.

Yes I am afraid Keith if you keep stirring the pot all over the World, I expect it is only a matter of time until someone strikes back. Yet in this case... I guess I was wrong.

I accept the official explanation - It is entirely plausible that an airplane can down a building. There is no reason to suspect explosives and other hidden reasons. It was witnessed by practically (at least the North Tower) everyone in the country. I've read so many links and stories but no one ever proves that anything other than airplanes downed those buildings.

A good piece and I believe it is Vital for all of us, US citizens or not, to constantly question ourselves and our government. It is extremely difficult in today's atmosphere as a US citizen, but even more so when you are a citizen who Does question. We are seen as 'anti-American' by our fellow citizens, condemn, ridiculed as being 'paranoid', etc in a time when it is hard enough to be receiving the Same treatment from people of other nations. All too often, folks outside of the US lump us all together as 'blind Bush supporters' and worse when there are actually quite a lot of us who are supremely unhappy and infinitely unsure on how to handle all of this. I, for one, said to my husband On 9/11 that I did not want to go and put out our American flag as he had called home to ask me to do as I was Not convinced that Our government didn't engineer or at least have something to do with this terrible event. He couldn't believe that he was so caught up in the tragedy of it all that he hadn't even stopped to consider that. He had simply wanted to fly the flag at half mast in honor of those that died. We've both been questioning ever since. I hear self-righteous beligerance from Everyone when it comes to the US, our government and our actions as a country though, and get a little tired of reminding people that there we aren't 'all the same'. Just like all blacks aren't violent, all jews aren't good with money, and all women don't like to shop. These are stereotypes and inherently false. There are no absolutes when it comes to people. One's nationality is no more a crystal clear indicator of morality than is one's chosen religion, race or gender. While I certainly understand your frustration with those US citizens who support this administration blindly and/or loudly...imagine how frustrating it is for those of us who Don't! I am Outraged on a daily basis at the lies and deaths being doled out by my government...but I now have to purchase a permit to peacefully protest these things 20 miles away from wherever the people who matter may be gathered. Our own citizens are being prevented from knowing about protests and the level of this internal struggle that is slowly climbing towards civil revolt though....so I dont' really expect anyone Outside the country to know that there are many of us fighting and protesting the same things you are. Wishing You Laughter

Well RoadKing, since the Pentagon is made mostly on the outside by "limestone" which is very malleable, I find that as far-fetched as a Jet of it's size flying at over 500 mph that low which is aerodynamically IMPOSSIBLE... but I am sure you have some explanation also how the engines were never found or a bone of one of the passengers, when most of the people who died in the Pentagon had autopsies. OR CAN YOU?

Its an interesting topic, ive read about the "controlled demolition" theory, but im still very skeptical about this conspiracy theory.

Of course there is precedence. Hitler did it. Others have done it in the past. That is, leaders allow atrocities to occur to create enough pretense to engage in an othewise unpopular foreign policy. I agree with you that the Bush administration is a criminal group, who have initiated devastating policies. But the science part of this conspiracy is not unequivocal proof, for me at least. In fact there is a great deal of science that disagree with the professor from BYU. Here is something I have read recently, for instance:

_____________________________________________________________


While there are a handful of Web sites that seek to debunk the claims of Mr. Jones and others in the movement, most mainstream scientists, in fact, have not seen fit to engage them.

"There's nothing to debunk," says Zdenek P. Bazant, a professor of civil and environmental engineering at Northwestern University and the author of the first peer-reviewed paper on the World Trade Center collapses.

"It's a non-issue," says Sivaraj Shyam-Sunder, a lead investigator for the National Institute of Standards and Technology's study of the collapses.

Ross B. Corotis, a professor of civil engineering at the University of Colorado at Boulder and a member of the editorial board at the journal Structural Safety, says that most engineers are pretty settled on what happened at the World Trade Center. "There's not really disagreement as to what happened for 99 percent of the details," he says.

Thomas W. Eagar is one scientist who has paid some attention to the demolition hypothesis — albeit grudgingly. A materials engineer at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Mr. Eagar wrote one of the early papers on the buildings' collapses, which later became the basis for a documentary on PBS. That marked him for scrutiny and attack from conspiracy theorists. For a time, he says, he was receiving one or two angry e-mail messages each week, many accusing him of being a government shill. When Mr. Jones's paper came out, the nasty messages increased to one or two per day.

So Mr. Eagar has become reluctantly familiar with Mr. Jones's hypothesis, and he is not impressed. For example, he says, the cascade of yellow-hot particles coming out of the south tower could be any number of things: a butane can igniting, sparks from an electrical arc, molten aluminum and water forming a hydrogen reaction — or, perhaps most likely, a spontaneous, completely accidental thermite reaction.

Occasionally, he says, given enough mingled surface area, molten aluminum and rust can react violently, à la thermite. Given that there probably was plenty of molten aluminum from the plane wreckage in that building, Mr. Eagar says, it is entirely possible that this is what happened.

Others have brought up this notion as well, so Mr. Jones has carried out experiments in his lab trying to get small quantities of molten aluminum to react with rust. He has not witnessed the reaction and so rules it out. But Mr. Eagar says this is just a red herring: Accidental thermite reactions are a well-known phenomenon, he says. It just takes a lot of exposed surface area for the reaction to start.

Still, Mr. Eagar does not care to respond formally to Mr. Jones or the conspiracy movement. "I don't see any point in engaging them," he says.

Hence, in the world of mainstream science, Mr. Jones's hypothesis is more or less dead on the vine. But in the world of 9/11 Truth, it has seeded a whole garden of theories.

I would add, since I am not a scientist, I tend to give credence to what 80 percent of the scientific community agrees with. Global warming, for instance, is overwhelmingly supported by scientists--that is, unless they are payrolled by Shell.

Here the scientific community doesnt buy into this conspiracy.

I think Roadking has said it perfectly!!!!

Time to watch the movie Joe. The links are in the blog. Start with 911 Mystery & then go on to Loose Change.

Quinn. I understand your grief. I do not lump all Americans into "flag waving Patriots who blindly follow their President into the depths of Hell" & I can see you for "one of the many" intelligent Americans.

Gustavo... it was either a conspiracy of Bin Laden with "Pilots who could not fly" who miraculously flew so expertly, or a conspiracy of a "lost leader President" that desperately needed something to take off his Presidency... yet either way... it was a conspiracy & I will ask you to think... How can the towers fall faster than a bowling ball in free fall unless there was a controlled demolition?

in 1993 an attempt was made to blow the pedestal footing out from under the towers. Subsequent studies noted with chagrin that if one tower went, the other would follow due to the necessity of building two on one foot pad. The only part of the structure to survie the predicted imploding was the mesh girder system used to transfer two towers weight to one footing. Those were those cathedral window looking structures. The horror is not only that the bulidings did come down from the airplane fuel inferno, but that it was predicted yet NYFD seemed oblivious to that and kept sending rescue personnel in!

Sorry, James if it seemed I was 'yelling' at ya. I just took the opportunity to express my own overwhelming frustration over this whole mess. I Don't expect people outside of the US to readily take an understanding view though as my own countrymen give those of us who don't agree such a hard time, and perhaps That has colored my own view of things. This line, " I am not amazed at the fact the American People themselves would try to debunk the facts. Holding the party line, & being Patriotic by following a dumb President is not something I find as hard to believe with many Americans." Did kinda lead me to think that you were lumping us all together though. I guess I should have lingered over the word 'many' before Americans, before wearily assuming you actually Were lumping us all together. Regrets

James F. I don't know where you get YOUR FACTS FROM, but obviously you also have not watched the Video with a link in my blog. The Twin Towers were not held up by the corners at all, but by a INDESTRUCTABLE CORE in the centre. Something that would be the last to fall "if ever" after all the floors fell on one another which is IMPOSSIBLE... but the fact is that a building cannot fall faster than a bowling ball under free fall conditions unless there is a controlled demolition. It is IMPOSSIBLE!

Quinn;

No I don't lump all Americans in the same boat. The person who provided these links is an American & the ones fighting so hard to get these videos into the hands of Americans for all these years are also American.

We know it was a conspiracy! Now what makes people believe it was one planned by Bin Laden, over one planned by George Bush? Who had more to gain?

Yet for some unknown reason these people would rather follow a man who has proved to lie to them, over & over, than believe Bin Laden who said he had nothing to do with it!?

I mean "come on"! The same day as 911 Norad was doing maneuvers involving a hijacked plane crashing into a building & Rice comes out right after 911 & says "How would we have suspected? How would we even thought they would use planes"? How many lies are these Americans (not all... just the dumb ones) willing to swallow, before they are willing to conceive that the 911 disaster had nothing to do with Bin Laden but was an "inside job"?

I worked with the people that built the towers. Try to find that company today Pittsburg Des Moines Steel. They folded up their tents after 911. If you really want to believe this government brought down the towers go ahead. But you are deluding yourself.
That indestructable core (the engineers referred to as the tuning fork) used the cathedral window looking structures to pass the weight down from the towers to the pedestal in the center. A pedestal is something that an object stands on. You seem to think it was indestructable and ran all the way up the towers, not so, it was a footing, and if one tower fell the other had no counter balance and would fall too. Remember my friend, Osama is on tape laughing that only the pilots knew it was a one way trip, the others thought they were involved in a hijackiong. Osama is from an engineering family too, and may well have understood the 1993 studies.

Well who did it then James? Bin Laden said he didn't & I cannot see now or then what he would have to gain by doing it. It was done James. Who did it? Was it the owners? Was it the Government? Was it Bin Laden. Yet someone who had the ability to plant explosives all throughout the Twin Towers before 911, get planes to fly into them, with no manifest of who was on the flight, & demolish those buildings at a faster rate than a bowling ball can fall in free fall from the same height DID DO IT! Now who was it? Don't say Bin Laden, because that just shows me that you are naive enough to believe all the other lies this Administration has told you too!

Bin laden is on video tape being thanked for attacking 'Babylon' and then smirking that the pilots alone knew it was a one way trip. Did our govt pay him to make the tape? Come on man, you are getting deeper into this paranoia. A generation ago you'd have been talking the man on the grassy knoll. I'm sorry, but the engineers that built the towers admitted after the first attack that it was vulnerable.

Oh & by the way James, if you look at the tape you refer to, that is CLEARLY NOT BIN LADEN! The guy is left handed, writing with his right, eating with his right & the nose does not even fit! Any other conversation Bin Laden has made, he says he had nothing to do with it & the Taliban would be glad to turn over Bin Laden, if the USA had any proof, because Bin Laden was not allowed to conduct terrorist acts outside of Afghanistan if he was given safe haven. It is also against Bin Laden's creed to kill innocent women & children. Yet again you would have to do some research like WATCH THE MOVIE for that.

have at it, but don't forget to rate the article.

Well yes R. E. that is true. Definitely a road I was going on down before I watched THE MOVIES! Something I wanted to make clear to the American People that they have been lied to with "Documented Evidence"... yet once I saw the Movies & saw the absolute proof in them, that this had to be an inside job, this whole thing needs more attention by the American People before they go to the polls than just waking up to understand they have been lied to.

I tend to give credence to what 80 percent of the scientific community agrees with

Yeah? How's that whole Flat world workin out for ya...?

I believe Bin Laden had a hand in it. I also believe Bush let him do it... and possibly paid him to do it.

RoadKing... we know it was done. The only question is who did it! Now before you can figure that out... you have to analyze how it was done right? How come that was a "given" & no research needed huh? Have you ever been wrong? Have you ever seen everything pointing in one direction & you find out later you were mistaken?

You have 3 kids & you walk into the living room & find the TV smashed. Who did it? Now the oldest was mad because you would not let him go out last night. The middle child is jealous of the oldest & might set him up & the youngest is clumsy! Who did it? They all claim they didn't & point fingers at each other.

Now you are the one to grab one of them "so sure" & give them a spanking, but the fact's do not add up! Later when watching a MOVIE you see they have a recall on your brand of TV because it has a faulty fuse that acts like a bomb & it smashes the TV.

Yet you don't wanna watch the show do you? You already knew who did it & you already punished them. Even though it was the oldest you punished & he is moving out of the house now & wants to slash your tires... you are still sure aren't you?!

Who did it RoadKing? It does not make any sense that Bin Laden did!

Tony;

They followed Hitler too! Believed they were the superior race! Some people are just closed minded sheep & at least you are smart enough to watch the movie & then comment.

Lori;

I saw Bush get elected under very shady circumstances & really he had nowhere to go with his Presidency, as people were pissed that Gore had the Election stolen from him. He was told about Bin Laden, but really did not care. His focus was on Iraq, but he needed to get way more popular in order to get the American People behind him at that point.

Bin Laden could not have got into the WTC & set up the bombs to bring it down. His pilots could not even fly, let alone be so accurate! Most of the terrorists outlined have been found & interviewed alive, that were supposed to pull off this thing! Planes alone could not bring down the Twin Towers. You will only get both sides if you WATCH THE MOVIES in my blog above.

James, are you saying that all of us who watched the horror of 9/11 are blind, stupid and unintelligent? One of the reporters on the way to work called the station to say there was a low flying aircraft headed toward the Pentagon. The terrorists who were flying those planes were well-trained in flying. They were not well-trained in take off or landing but they were trained to fly once the plane was in the air. Of course they knew it was a one way trip. Just as the Kamikaze pilots flew planes that could not land, yet they took off anyway, because they thought dying for their country was an honor.

Explain, please, why a Canadian is so interested in trying to cause more conflict with these obviously derogatory statements? America has enough problems without adding more fuel to the fire. I watched the second plane crash into the Twin Towers and saw bodies falling as people jumped from the windows. I would call it unreality to blame the Twin Towers, Pentagon and the PA field on our government. Me thinks you give Bush, Congress and the Senate more power than is possible. This is just another ploy by those who are trying to undermine the strong government, (even if it does have corruption in it), that has acted to prevent another 9/11. I tried to watch some of those "set up" videos, but since it is so easy to put things in and take things out, I found it quite frustrating. I think I will just continue to believe what my eyes saw and my brain digested on that unforgettable day. I am sure the families and survivors of 9/11/01 could set you straight. BTW, are you friends with Ward Churchill by any chance? He called the people killed in 9/11 Nazis. Conspiracy, conspiracy, conspiracy....

June;

As I said before... it WAS A CONSPIRACY! Whether Bin Laden did it, or George Bush, or Mickey Mouse! It was a conspiracy! The hijackers outlined (for the most part) have been found alive & interviewed by the British, but the Pilots themselves COULD NOT FLY! Certainly they were not interested so much in landing or taking off, but being the son of a PILOT I can tell you that there is "no way" a novice could pull off such a feat unless he was "very experienced indeed"!

Not only is it impossible to fly a plane into the Pentagon at such speeds & so close to the ground, but you would need to know something about landing even if you were foolishly going to attempt it! The Pentagon is armed! Fully armed! With anti aircraft defences that work "automatically"!

Nobody dispute planes went into the Twin Towers, only that it is IMPOSSIBLE to bring them down PERIOD with a plane & also IMPOSSIBLE for a building to fall that fast without "controlled demolition". Yet the only way you could see the truth is to WATCH THE MOVIE & instead of turning it off screaming "bah humbug"... watch it all & then comment.

Canadians are in Afghanistan right now over this stupid lie & if I have anything to do about it... they will WAKE UP!

Hell June the cell phone calls are even fake, as they could not be made from a plane flying at that altitude & speed. Facts are facts. Just scroll up & watch 911 Mystery.

R. E. obviously you did NOT WATCH THE MOVIE as Pratt and Whitney referred everyone to Rolls Royce to identify the 1 engine found (neither could be destroyed in such a fire as they were made of titanium) & Rolls Royce said they were not their product. Not a product of the plane that was supposed to fly into the Pentagon.

As far as the cockpit voice recorder... I remind you that that recorder only records voices INSIDE THE COCKPIT & not in the Passenger section. On top of this, there is not a spot of blood or any evidence of a plane at the Pennsylvania site.

Again WATCH THE MOVIE!

No actually those questions you ask are answered in the Movie :

9/11 Mysteries (video)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6708190071483512003

I did mention that Pratt & Whitney referred everyone to Rolls Royce who said that was NOT one of the engines on the aircraft. Loose Change is a video made up by a few kids, (although has been updated with a new one), yet the 911 Mystery covers everything permanently.

Now I ask you... if you were calling your Mother from a hijacked plane, would you need to tell her your first & last name?

How about "Let's Roll" from the cockpit recording?

Where are the Videos R.E. if the Govt explanation is on the "up & up"? At least 14 video cameras would have caught the airplane. It sure would be easy to release a video of one with an airplane in it... now wouldn't it?

Why is there no passenger Manifest from any of the 4 planes? Have you ever heard of that? Have you ever tried to fly without ID? I did back in the 80's & no way! So where is the passenger list?

How come they keep finding these hijackers all over the world & interviewing them? How did that happen R.E.?

Watch the MOVIE 911 Mystery as I said. Then tell me if your questions have not been answered.

Boy James , you are just annoying. You can spread your proganda all you want too. But I too, saw a video tape that Bin Ladin admitted to taking credit for doing 9-11 . I didnt see anything in it about him eating and using the wrong hand. The one I saw he was standing and praising Allah. I bet you talk to little green men too. People dont like Bush, they will say and do whatever to try and make him look bad. I too, have watched on the news , the other side of this bunch of crap. For every arguement you are making, they are making a good defense against it. What about the families of the failed attempted flight in Penn. They even saved the last calls from the airplane before it crashed of their brave loved ones. You give Bush way to much credit on this one. It would of been political suicide even if he could of pulled this off. Not to mention, look at all the firefighters, the newsmedia, and the police officers that would had to go along with this cover up....Then you say the Taliban would of turned Bin Ladin over if there was any proof of this. Lol. Please, find another hobby and stop spreading your lies..................

It's not really hard Vickey & Charles;

If anyone speaks out... they have to deal with people like you two! People who will not watch:

9/11 Mysteries (video)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6708190071483512003

Yet you go on supposing I am wrong & saying I am insane, but you have nothing to dispute, simply because you don't know what to dispute, simply because you have not watched THE MOVIE.

Bin Laden has never admitted ever (except in one video) that he had anything to do with 911. As a matter of fact, he has said "over & over" he did not! Therefore if you have one tape (supposedly from him) claiming he did have something to do with it, (when he could not have) & you have many tapes in which he said he did not (which he could not have)... then you in turn believe Bush right?

One person who has proven to be a liar. An Administration who has proven to lie & lie, torture & kill, take away your freedom & lead you into the fires of Hell, you believe. Yet Bin Laden, who is so respected by the people around him, simply because he does not lie says he did not do something (he should be proud of if he did), you choose not to believe him. Ok. I see your point. Do you need a cork for your mouth to go along with the eye shades & earplugs & play Pinball just like Tommy?

The Twin Towers could not be taken down inside of 11 seconds without demolition help! It is against the laws of physics! If a bowling ball cannot free fall at such a speed, neither can a building without help!

When has it ever happened before? NEVER! Why? Because it is IMPOSSIBLE!

Yet I will leave you Pinball Wizards to become the Champs & the rest of the people can watch the MOVIE:

9/11 Mysteries (video)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6708190071483512003

I watched the movies and I appreciated them. I try to watch every one they make about this issue. I have an insatiable need to get to the truth and so I expose myself to every source I can find.

I agree with Tony. Everyone if James S. is wrong please show the proof.

Olga. Good for you. Now that you know the truth, time for the next plateau. Teaching others. I am watching this now:


http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474976814637 | 9/11

what a pompus buffoon.
We stir the pot? We are the pot. Get used to it, the United States is the Big Dog on the planet, it is your jealousy that motivates your pathetic ranting about how innocent people deserved to be murdered because we are, well I guess that is up to you to fill in the blank.
We don't tread around the world worrying about whether we are hurting your feelings, like we should check ourselves and tone it down a notch or isolate ourselves.
Sorry, we are doers, not losers.
I'll remember your attitude the next time an axis of evil finally gets that upper hand and the rest of the world once again turns to us and expecfts us to turn the tide with our technology, ou selflessness, our resources, our ingenuity and once we crush that evil our compassion to ppick the enemy up, brush them off and help them rebuild.
You stupid pathetic little man. Our history shows who we are. Name two, no one country on the scene as fast as we are in any natural catastrophe, no matter who it happens to , I'll tell you, NOBODY jackass NOBODY
Stupid little jealous Canuck, you want us to step down, no I challenge you to outdo us.

I can hardly wait for you to solve the JFK assassination James S.

I saw the films ... total BS!

But, dream your little dream if it makes you feel better. We all have to find a life somewhere. I guess yours will be firmly in the realm of the lunatic fringe.

Well Keith;

I see that you are so "big & tough" & should rule the world like Hitler, yet that is not my point in blogging here. Although you might think that your poo does not stink & you have the way of God behind you in World Domination, & although there are a bunch of people in this world who would just like you to leave them alone... that is still not my point.

My point is you have been deceived. I know "they" led you to believe that all these people were going to be coming to kill you & your children soon & that you had better do them first, but it is a fallacy. The way you will learn that you have been deceived is to watch THE MOVIE. Once you have done that, you might accept that what you have been told is not real.

Just as Hitler said, people might have a hard time believing little lies from their leaders, but the BIG ONES they will swallow up. 911 was a BIG LIE!

Yet you cannot refute what I say unless you know what it is. You will never know what it is until you watch THE MOVIE.

Calling me a "Poopy Head" will not make you look better. As I would feel if I were you, if I knew that I was deceived, I would not "shoot the messenger", but I would be really mad at the person or people who deceived me!

Now that might be the Axis of Evil (Bush, Cheney & Rumsfeld), or it might be the person with the 99 Year Lease on the Twin Towers that had them insured for 7 Billion dollars, when he bought the Lease for under 2 Million. It might be Bin Laden, if you can show me where & how he did it. I might even believe it was Saddam if you had some evidence.

Yet until you watch the MOVIE, you will not know what to fight about or who to fight. I would suggest you do that. I challenge you to do that.

Well good David;

Then possibly you can explain:

> How buildings built to withstand hurricanes & planes flying into them could possibly drop, faster than a bowling ball in free fall, in under 11 seconds?

> How the Govt cannot produce footage from the 14 cameras surrounding the Pentagon showing the airplane crashing into it.

> How engines built with titanium (just as indestructible) as the black boxes they found were never recovered?

> How most of the hijackers have been interviewed alive by the British after 911?

> Why there was no "independent" investigation on how the Towers fell?

I have more but I don't want to overload you David, as I know now that after the MOVIE you know the answers to just those few.

Olga... sorry wrong link:


http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=3581743629558970050

Will teach you what you need to know next after you find out the truth. Sorry :O)

Well then char... you tell me how Bin Laden got into the WTC & placed all the explosives necessary to bring those buildings down in less than 11 seconds when a bowling ball in free fall could not hit the ground so quickly, as that is how it was done!

Tell me how he did this? If you cannot, then watch the MOVIE & be convinced that it could have not happened in any other way, than for it to be brought down using "multiple charges" & being an "inside job"!

If you can show me where Bin Laden got past the WTC's head of Security (Bush's Brother) & planted those bombs inside of the WTC... then I will believe that Bin Laden did it.

Otherwise the only way it could have been Bin Laden is if he got help from the Federal Government, who was also quick to cover up the evidence.

If you want proof. Watch the MOVIE.

Hi Charles,

Now before you start falsely accusing me of being even remotely interested in what you have to say. May I remind you that a previous post and comment of mine is the basis for the current gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474976817691.

I didn't want to acknowledge your thoroughly dishonest comments. Because I was afraid you might actually delete them. Once it occurs to you that even those, who would shove the blatant Faux News propaganda in their eyeballs, can only revel in your utter lack of sincerity.

The "Scholars for 9/11 Truth" do not even believe that two planes actually hit the WTC; they claim the tapes show "cartoon animation" of the planes. When asked about the real-time, live broadcast of the second impact, they say, "We're not sure exactly how they did that."

A professor member of the "Scholars for 9/11 Truth" made exactly the statements I reported on "The O'Reilly Factor" a few days ago. -Charles N.

gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474976813601

pathologically repeating himself:

gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474976814637

nearly a month before he claims his evidence aired:

gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474976795686

Charles apparently feels no cognitive dissonance stating the patently false with complete insincerity. I only wonder how this factors in to his relationship with the 'ADL'?

Anyone can witness how unbelievable low you lower the bar of civil debate with:

youtube.com/watch?v=pxHbmqJ-U1Y

But while we are revisitng your only apparent interest, (.gov) sponsored disinformation.

Here's an abridged list of conspiracy's that could never have been kept secret:

• Hitler's Reichstag Fire
• RMS Lusitania
• USS Maine
• Gulf of Tonkin
• Pearl Harbor

And while were at it let's address one Kennedy managed to obstruct before he was assasinated by a 'magic' bullet:

Operation Northwoods

or for that matter (PNAC):

Project for the New American Century

Or are you willing to acknowledge the C.I.A.'s stranglehold on Big Media demonstrated by:

Operation Mockingbird

Why are you so averse to the truth? Do you really think all of your lies won't imprison you, as you pathologically surrender your reality to real truth seekers?

LoTek

truthfor911.gather.com

James, you couldn't overload me on your BEST day, even when I'm having my worst.

There have been several independent investigations into the downing of the towers, by reputable structural engineers. Perhaps the most informative for a lay person like yourself airs on the History Channel periodically. It explains the structural failure caused not by the 757s flying into each tower -- their design adequately withstood that trauma, but by the effects of the intense fire caused by roughly 40,000 of jet fuel had on the trusses holding up each floor.

Perhaps that fast falling bowling ball you keep harping about landed on your head.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to debate such an idiotic proposition as has been posited by your regurgitated tirade. The facts are clear, bin Laden wanted to hurt the U.S. on our own soil, he and his cohorts took advantage of the weaknesses that were allowed to develop while our then Prevaricator-in-Chief was more worried about getting his daily fellatio and fighting impeachment than he was in engaging in effective foreign policy to capture and kill the Saudi Sadist that has gleefully admitted his leading the true conspiracy.

Of course, when the facts are against you -- facts, James; not the delusions induced by potent pharmaceuticals or mere psychosis, promoting flaky conspiracy theories is your last and only option.

I know what your real motivation is in all this James. Its quite evident in your prior posting;
"I saw Bush get elected under very shady circumstances & really he had nowhere to go with his Presidency, as people were pissed that Gore had the Election stolen from him."

You're motivated by an irrational hatred of Bush and you will grasp at anything that you think can be used as a club against him.

David;

Ok no links or anything proving your point? Shame on you! What happened to the central core David? The History Channel does not explain that either & they have no explanation for Building #7 or how a building can fall faster than Physics will allow without controlled demolition.

If I thought you had anything intelligent to say I might waist my time going on with you David, but you answer NONE of the questions nor dispute ANY of the evidence produced in the videos. Until you do, I am not going to waist my time any more responding to you.

Now Charles, I have no problem responding to. At least he produces an intelligent argument.

Charles;

I sure would like to see a link to all these 100's or 1000's of people you claim that saw all this happen, as Bush portrays it & please provide a link to them. I don't find, for the best of my trying, more than a handful of intelligent, "nothing to gain from lieing", fact based people who can dispute any of this.

It comes down to very simple things.

If there were numerous cameras fixed on the Pentagon at the time, why has the Government only released 1 video of 5 frames showing nothing? Why not release all the tapes?

Where are the 2 Jet Engines? They could not be destroyed in the fire, as they were made of Titanium! They can get a black box from a field in Pennsylvania, with not a drop of blood in the ground, or a single human bone, but they cannot find these engines?

How does a building fall faster than Physics allows? How did Building #7 fall?

Now you can go on believing what you want, as the lie might to be too BIG to cover up, but it isn't really. You are proof that people can & do become adamant in their belief that a card is a card, that you would be totally mind blown in a magic show.

Let's pretend shall we, that Bush did want to "rally the troops" to go into the Middle East & take control of the region & it's Oil. How would he do that? Would he not need something as big as Pearl Harbor to get the populace into it? Could 911 be pulled off by members of the Administration? Has it ever happened before in History?

Hitler said that the people will have problems with "little lies" from their leaders, but will gobble up the BIG ones easily" & in your case, I guess he was correct.

There has been no formal in dependant investigation. The 911 Report was a farce, poorly funded & given little time, a majority of the report merely deals with how to stop this from happening again, but explains nothing on how the Towers fell, nor does it explain any of the other questions asked in the MOVIE!

The Administration immediately lied saying "Planes going into buildings was a total surprise to them" when they were actually working on maneuvers involving such a scenario, on the day of 911!

Right now there are over 600,000 people dead in Iraq over these lies. It's not getting any better either!

Yet if you only cared about the 3000 people killed in the Towers during 911, I think their lives deserve answers to the questions raised in the MOVIE.

Hi Charles,

If you are still sincerely suggesting that your your following comment, posted as much as a month in advance of the evidence you cite in a least discrete (3) instances.

Then you are a blatant disinformationist shill, insinuating some misbegotten authority from the 'ADL'.

If your hypocrisy is wholly insincere and based on a lack of education, then you need to take responsibility and accountability for that, now.

Any way it is interpreted, you have done nothing but lie, since you have been here. And the following example is the height of willfully subverting even marginal ethics:

The "Scholars for 9/11 Truth" do not even believe that two planes actually hit the WTC; they claim the tapes show "cartoon animation" of the planes. When asked about the real-time, live broadcast of the second impact, they say, "We're not sure exactly how they did that."

A professor member of the "Scholars for 9/11 Truth" made exactly the statements I reported on "The O'Reilly Factor" a few days ago. -Charles N.

gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474976813601

pathologically repeating himself:

gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474976814637

nearly a month before he claims his evidence aired:

gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474976795686

Your comments above are in now way subsatantiated by your cited referencve, 'Fox News Interview', from a couple of days ago. In fact you made the same comments, as I have shown more than a month ago. Yet, right here, right now, you still insist the show you heard them on played only days ago.

youtube.com/watch?v=pxHbmqJ-U1Y

If it is not lying, what is it?

Because it is all that you ever do in the name of the 'ADL', no less ...

LoTek

truthfor911.gather.com

I'm not convinced either way by the evidence so sketchily presented thus far. I do believe that there is more than meets the eye, as I have from the beginning. I find it far more questionable that Bush had the Bin Ladens escorted, by plane no less, out of the US. That, coupled with the Bush family's long association with the Bin Ladens is a bright red flag. There are others that also don't involve the manner in which the Towers collapsed, these are just the two biggest in my opinion. HOW the towers were brought down isn't as important, in my mind, as by Who and Why. "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." ~Voltaire

Charles N.

You are a compulsive pathological liar. So I enjoy posting links that demonstrate this at length for your audience. That's why I just 'copy' and 'paste' the same evidence to your multiple repeat offenses.

You also can't seem to post anything in just (1) place. So I just 'Gather more 'points' by using my same comment to refute your comment 'spam'.

I see them as multiple opportunities, since I am merely replying to your repetitive obsessive - compulsion ...

LoTek

truthfor911.gather.com

I don't know what kind of war Charles & LoTek are having;

However I do not think it is very hard to keep things secret if you work for the Secret Service, the FBI, or even the Marines.

All that it is estimated it would take is a team of less than 100 to wire the WTC with explosives, a matter of hours... not even an entire day. Then once sworn to secrecy, & after seeing the attacks, who would not of them be horrified of exposing such a murderous act they had taken part of! Never mind the fact of "control of the Media" & the threats on their lives if they ever spoke a word.

Look how many years it took for "Deep Throat" to identify himself? How long after Roswell did it take before someone came forward? How many years did they keep the lid on the German Jet Fighter after the war? There are constantly things coming out even today, that have never gotten airplay for 50 years or more.

How long did the Enron fiasco take to hit the press? How long before it was reported that Kennedy hired the Mafia to kill Castro? How many people were involved in that?

To this day people believe the Boston Tea Party was a demonstration about taxes, when in actuality it was staged by Merchants who did not want to compete with the British Goods. How many years did people believe the World was flat? I could go on & on.

The Pentagon is so easy... it isn't funny! You can pay whoever you want to say whatever you want them to say they saw & some don't even need to be paid, but be glad to get on TV. Just as easily as they staged the people cheering & partying when they pulled down Saddam's statue. That was admittedly staged.

The proof is in the pudding. Show us the video tapes. Where is the beef? Show me the links or the proof any bodies were pulled from the plane that they can find little or no wreckage from. Why does the one engine found (both could not be destroyed in that fashion) not match the aircraft? Show me how it is possible to fly a Jet so close to the ground at those speeds. What happened to the automatic air defences at the Pentagon?

Where are the wings from the plane, or the marks from them hitting the wall, or the broken windows where the wings should have crashed into the Pentagon, or the skid marks from the engines which would have had to scrape the ground if the plane hit at the level the hole was found. Tell my how such a big Jet could fit inside of such a small hole. Give me any of those answers & I will accept that some person or a few people that said they saw it, are not total liars or insane! Maybe there was a low flying Jet at the time. Who said it crashed into the Pentagon? Does 1 & 1 make 2 in a Magic Show? Obviously it was a Conspiracy, by hijackers or the Government, so obviously as well they would have done something strange to throw people off the track either way.

Why did we know who did it so quickly & be so sure so fast? Why was it generally accepted by the Government so much that they did not do a proper investigation? Why haul all the wreckage to China? Is there not enough room in the USA to keep it?

Tell my why these MOVIES have not been allowed airplay on Prime Time & then debunked? I think it's news & thousands of other people think it is news. People radically think it is so much news that they are giving DVD's away about it for free! Why then would the News stations rather run a story about some Congressman having a sexual conversation with a 16 year old, over & over & over & over again... but not these Movies? Are they not done well enough? Is the sound quality bad? Why?

Your not providing answers, but you stand by this theory that nothing THIS BIG could ever be covered up! Yet it can & has. Just as most Americans don't realize that Saddam was supplied with chemical weapons to fight Iran with. Yet it is a fact & I have documented proof.

Just like many Americans do not believe that American Companies including Henry Ford's supplied the Nazi's with war materials! Yet it is true & I can prove it.

You can sit there all you want & believe what you want to believe, yet it is when you have a TOTALLY CLOSED MIND TO THE FACTS is when I say... you are the problem.

You are the problem because you call people "wacko" but cannot disprove the facts as outlined in the MOVIE.

Of course Charles I know 2 Jets hit the WTC. Yet that is not what brought it down. Now I don't believe everything some of these people say, as I am not as much into conspiracies. I don't believe anyone can achieve a "One World Government" in my lifetime, or implant us all with Microchips.

However it does seem obvious to me that these buildings were brought down by demolition & I do not put it past Bush to make it the new Pearl Harbor, to give him reason & backing for his war in the Middle East.

He was a "Lame Duck President" before 911 & he would have been lucky to get through his first term without being impeached if 911 never happened. I am not Anti-Republican, & I did like Regan. Yet this Bush is a lieing bag of crap & I put nothing past him at all. He does not have the ability to do anything on his own right, which was the reason why he had to meet with the 911 Commission in Private with Cheney to hold his hand when being grilled!

I hope enough people wake up to this lieing bag of sh*t by Election time, as this Tyrant has to be stopped before he invades Iran next!

Char;

Is this to prove that Bush is not psychotic or that he does not have psychosis? As I believe Hitler was not as a person you describe, nor Stalin, nor Julius Caesar, nor Eric the Red.

Yet it might describe Einstein somewhat. Although whether someone is a night person or not I think is irrelevant. I would advise you not to put all the Midnight Shift workers into your pigeon hole!

I understand some people are famous for hearing others thoughts & I was amazed when once someone did it with me. Totally taken aback I was!

Now what this has to do with a "cover up" of 911 is beyond me, but I am sure you know in the world you are in.

Charles;

Lets start at the bottom & work up shall we? The MOVIE is very well done & there is little to dispute. If it is so viable & so many people are interested in it... you tell me why it does not get Prime Time airplay & get debunked? The Mainstream Media is controlled in my opinion.

Explosive charges help in forcing the building down from their blast power & that is the only way any object can fall faster than another from a given height (Newton's Theory).

My father was a Pilot & I can vouch for the fact that you cannot fly a Cessna 182 at full speed closer than 15 feet to the ground. The Aerodynamics of a Jet are far worse! It needs the pressure of the air to keep it air bound & I do not know the actual statistics, but I doubt it could get closer to the ground than 100 feet at such speeds.

Oh & one other thing. Dan Rather & others from CBS have been interviewed after they retired. They stand by the story of Bush & the Military as it was reported, but the story was force "apologized for" & just as true as when it was reported. The original was not a fake. The cover up afterwards was.

James you keep talking about a bowling ball free falling. An accurate expariment would be to take two bowling balls and slam one down on top of the other. weather there were sprinklers or not makes no difference because pipes would have been cut any way.

http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?p=911+&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&b=42&oid=64fa53aa199ed58c&rurl=www.alessandrobuzzi.it&vdone=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.yahoo.com%2Fvideo%2Fsearch%3Fp%3D911%2B%26toggle%3D1%26cop%3Dmss%26ei%3DUTF-8%26b%3D41

I reccommend viewing this on full screen mode.

Notice when the dust plume is about the heighth of the building in the foreground there are large chuncks of debris flying at world trade 7.

Here is unaltered footage of a collaps notice the core still standing after the largest mass is already on the ground. It looks like a shadow in the dust cloud untill it starts to move. The core is the last large sections to hit the ground. it starts leaning and eventually crumbles.

Your movie shows the structural components the outer walls. you don't see any explosive charges ttached to the columns. We know the core wasn't cut with explosives because it cou not have stood as long as it did.
Myth busted.

James your theory that explosives forced the buildings down is scientificly impossable. The amount of explosives required to provide enough preasure to move or effect that mass of rubble is astranomical. Or are you saying someone parked a ryder truck on top of the building and blasted it downward?

Not only is it possible David, but necessary to get something to drop faster than physics allows in a free fall. Try an experiment. Support a brick off the ground with toothpicks & then drop a brick on top of it from 6 inches above. Video tape it & time it & see how long it takes for it to hit the ground. Now from the same height, do the same thing but just drop the brick from the same height. You will find from your data that in "both experiments" the bricks will hit the ground at exactly the same time (Newtons Law).

Now there was evidence shown in THE MOVIE where these beams were cut "on an angle" clearly shown in the rubble! Just as they are cut in any demolition.

Oh & David... the WTC was held up by way more than toothpicks! I would advise you to keep your day job, as your skills as Myth Buster are seriously lacking.

The beams in the rubble were cut by cutting torches so the rubble could be cleared. You can see this by the slag that has run down at the same angle the beam is resting. Any number of people who know how to use a cutting torch will tell you that. A cut from a demolition charge is clean and smooth, as in no slag the metal is blasted out of the cut and flung outward.

As for the brick experiment it would take 20 bricks on top to create a force that was compared to the 20 floors that dropped onto the first whole floor in the WTC. The experiment could be fun but would ultimately be pointless because you would argue that the attachment points weren't strong enough to be an accurate simulation.

You don't seem to get it do you. A pebble dropped from the same height as a bowling ball hits the ground at exactly the same time! It has nothing to do with weight, the speed of a fall. It only has to do with height what is in the way to prevent the fall. Therefore nothing can fall faster than free fall. Any resistance will make it fall slower... not faster. The only way something can fall faster is from force of an explosion. That is basic physics.

No beams are not cut by torches at a perfect slant in a perfect straight line with a cutting torch. They are jagged. The only way a beam is cut on a "perfect diagonal line" is if it was cut by explosives during demolition.

I know you will fight to death to believe that George Bush has nothing to do with this David, but the facts do not hold up to such a theory!

Okay, this is getting ridiculous.

James, it doesn't matter how many times you repeat a falsehood, it still doesn't make it true. While you are entitled to your own opinion, you are NOT entitled to your own facts.
The WTC Towers did NOT fall faster than terminal velocity. (you and that GD bowling ball). You chided me to provide "prove" (as you are prone to use, mangling the English language). Well, go to both the sites below. They'll provide you that proof, James (see, communication is much more effective when you actually spell the words correctly when trying to make your point.)

http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1CollapseofTowers.pdf

http://wtc.nist.gov/reports_october05.htm

These two reports, with the other supporting documents, explain in great scientific detail, confirmed by extensive testing and expert testimony of more than 100 experts conducted over a two year period, exactly how and why the tower fell. These reports completely obliterate the premise you, and the films you are shilling for, are trying to promulgate.
Another "fact" you're trying to pawn off is that an airliner can't fly 500 mph 100 feet off the ground. That's an assertion any F-18 pilot would take issue with. You said you dad is a pilot and he told you a Cessna 182 can't be flown full speed 15 feet off the ground. You said more than once in your above posts that this is "aerodynamically impossible". That is unadulterated BS, my Canuck friend. I AM a licensed pilot, and I manage an airport. Aviation is my life, my livelihood and my passion. In this particular case you have shown us all your COMPLETE ignorance by stating something is "fact", when the exact opposite is true. (Makes me wonder about the rest of your "factual" assertions)
Flying a jet 100 ft off the ground (or a 182) 15-feet off the ground at full speed would actually have greater lift because of the aerodynamics. It's called ground effect, moron ... go look it up.
Finally, you still haven't addressed your real motivation. (If a Canadian can really be motivated to do anything.) You don't like Bush ... we get that. Simply admit that, close this thread and move on. I might suggest refresher courses in Science and English. Once you've boned up on those, I'd really love for you to come back so we can start to have an intelligent conversation. I really would like to get into a battle of wits with you, but, alas, as it stands at the moment, you are unarmed, sir.

Have a good one, eh.

Now as far as David B. goes... buddy what is the use in arguing with a complete lie? Show me a plane that can fly at 500+ mph 5 feet off the ground & although it could never be an airliner as described, you will get the "golden cookie of Today award" & then you can explain how it made such a small hole with no wing imprints anywhere & how the engines would not scrape the ground for the nose to enter at the height of the hole & then we will expand your "cookie" to a cake!

I wonder how you ever got air training with your arrogance & total lack of knowledge! So everyone on the Movie is wrong & David B. is right! Ok bud... you just go to the White House & tell them how you can explain it all to the world so that they will understand & just how decent you are & respectful of others as you do it.

By the way if anyone wants to look past his arrogance & total lack of cooth & wonder after anyone in their right mind tells you that a airliner cannot fly that low unless it is at landing speed (something these terrorists remember did not know how to do) & you wonder about the NIST report... The report is discussed in the MOVIE which some nimrods feel too pomp ass to watch.

9/11 Mysteries (video)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6708190071483512003

That's right James, avoid the issue by dismissing the facts. You sit by your monitor, cast aspertions against others, and then get quite dismissive when you're called on it and have it thrown back into your face.

The impact of the jet striking the Pentagon was closer to 25 feet than five ( the impact point was the second floor, but what's 20 feet, anyway? From the bottom of the engine, to the top of the wing is only eight feet, so there's plenty of room.

The wings sheared and folded back upon impact. They were found with the wreckage. You can also see where this occured by an objective, nonconspiratorial look at the photographs.

You have NO right charging anyone with being arrogant. It was your smug, "holier-than-thou" tone that prompted me to post in this thread to begin with. But, I do admit, I don't suffer fools lightly. And, you are one of the biggest fools I've had the misfortune to come across. So, maybe I have been a bit rough on you.
To put it simply James -- you get what you give. I'm quite fine with that, because I can debate you until the cows come home and never lose my breath or break a sweat. I only wish you would try harder to make it a little tougher to prove your asinine rantings wrong.

But, I will give you this. You do make me laugh. And, if your other buddies north of the border are just like you, I know we're safe. You couldn't find your way down here if your lives depended on it.

James, you want respect. Start giving it. I'm more than willing to let bygones be bygones. But it's been evident from your tone with everyone, that's not in your make-up. So just know, I'll be sitting back and laughing, waiting for you to show your ass again. Rest assured I'll be back to point it out when you do.

That's right James.... push the movie

Avoid cogent questions at ALL costs!

Ok so James is telling me that if you are flying a plane at an angle towards the ground at 500 mph you cant hit the ground? I dont get it mabey I'm just that dense though....I'm pretty sure that if you are flying and point the nose down at a target you will probably be able to guide it right into what the target is...right? if not please explain why its impossible...

Josh, I think you're deserving of the golden cookie things James is handing out. Excellent question! And, you're correct.

I get the cookie?!?!?! SWWEEET thanks david....First, I would like to thank god, my mom, dad......i dunno,,I, I just dont know what to say!!!thank you all sooo much!!!

I find that very interesting, too, Charles. We ask cogent questions and are patronized, or subject so some other condescension ... insulted. Then, if we point out that maltreatment and the fallacies of the argument, we're arrorgant and rude.

Gotta love America. But wait, we're being preached to by a Canadian. If there not irony in that ...

Oh well, over to monitor the Iraq whiners for a while. I'll be back though. I'll need my regular dose of snickering at James. Maybe he'll answer the questions ... eventually.

Well let's see. Your supposed hijacker knew barely how to fly a plane, but somehow could maneuver a plane into the pentagon, defeating all air defences, & flew so precisely so close to the ground at over 500 miles per hour that the engines never scraped the ground? That's a good one! I have got the conspiracy story?

David B.'s comments about the wings being found is bulls**t so I will not even try to help with a lie. We would not be talking about it if there was any wreckage found that fit the plane & made sense. The engines alone could not burn up in such a fire.

Now Charles seems to think explosions would slow the building down, but it fell faster than a bowling ball in free fall... so if it was not explosions & it IS NOT POSSIBLE for a building to fall faster than Physics allows... then we have what? The hand of God pushing the building down? Wow! That is more of a conspiracy story than I could come up with.

Now Josh... at least is not being insulting (and Charles too) so Josh... here we go. No. In order to get the plane to hit any target (keep in mind it would take an experienced pilot to do this) they would have to slow the plane to landing speed. Never mind that one touch of the stick in any direction at that speed would make it crash in any other way but directly on target, never mind it being thrown totally off course by hitting the telephone polls on the way in. It could go into the ground, but you would have to be an expert to make it hit the ground at any given place at that speed, given the velocity changes as you came closer to the ground.

Yet throw all that out the window. No wreckage! Engines built with Titanium that would not melt at any possible temperature the crash could generate... where are the engines?

14 Video cameras were taping the spot, so why don't we have the video? Give me one good reason why we don't have the video? If a plane really hit the pentagon as all these geniuses say, why not show it? Why just 5 frames from one camera that show nothing?

If nothing was to be seen, then why not show 14 videos of nothing? Why not? Can you give me a reason?

Why were there no bodies from the plane, but almost all from the Pentagon found? Where is the black box from the Pentagon crash? Such a hot fire it burned them up too just like the engines?

If so we have one "fake engine" planted at the site that is not part of the plane. If you want to claim it is real... then it survived. Where are the black boxes?

Now most of the answers & questions from both sides are presented in the MOVIE & I don't see why I should waist my time with people who have not watched the MOVIE & just want to pull crap out of their hat! Watch the MOVIE!


9/11 Mysteries (video)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6708190071483512003

James, James, James

I think you have finally fallen over the edge.

Just to satisfy myself that I was not in error, because I am human and I do make mistakes -- frequently, if you ask my wife -- I reconducted some of the research I did several years ago, when all these moronic conspiracy theories really started to gain steam. The photographic evidence is still there for everyone to see. I really quite surprised that someone professing to be as intelligent and open-minded as you do frequently (when not being pompus and condescending).

Simply do a Google search for Pentagon Attack photos. You find over 200 sites where wreckage from airliner are available. I could provide you the links myself, but I wouldn't want to insult your intelligence by implying you aren't capable out doing yourself. They're there Sir James. There, blowing another big hole in your "Movie".

As an aside, it really is amusing how you just choose to dismiss everyone you nails you on the facts by simply moving on, and not addressing the factual rebuttals you are given. That's not very becoming, and it REALLY weakens what few valid points you may try to make.

Show me a link David to the Engines that could not have been destroyed. Not the one engine that Rolls Royce says is not one, but both engines from that plane. Then show me a link to the "black boxes" they recovered.

You find those 4 things, which could not have been destroyed, & I will shut up about all of this. Don't give me planted crap where they threw in this piece of an airplane with no scratches on it or burn marks. Don't show me garbage. I want to see the 2 engines & the 2 black boxes that could not have been destroyed.

Short of that you can try to explain why the "automatic air defence" went down at the Pentagon that day, why there are no broken windows where the wings should have hit & why there is only a single hole. As the people who filmed the Pentagon while the fire was still burning found no wreckage. Minor pieces thrown around that you could pick up & carry with one hand. There is documented proof there was nothing there.

Short of that David, show me the video from the 14 cameras that all should have the footage on film. Can't do any of those things? Then don't say I have the conspiracy story... you obviously do!

I got a feeling I shouldn't be touching this with a ten ft pole, but just out of curiosity, "WHY" do you care so much about something that didn't even happen in your country. I mean I'm quite sure that there are enough problems within the Canadian Gov't to keep you busy for years. Is this just your personal way of insulting and badgering Americans or do you have some other agenda, is your concern genuine? I smell a conspiracy here somewhere. Don't know what it is yet but I sure the MOVIE will follow soon....

James, you talk about ME having a closed mind! Whew, fella. You not only drank the Kool-Aid, you ate the Tupperware jug it was in.

As I said before, you claim to be an intelligent guy. Find the link yourself, just like I did. But, I know you won't even attempt to, because you have your mind set and no amount of incontrovertible facts will change your mind.

I have done this for you, however. I've posted two of the most telling photos in My Photos section http://dabeall.gather.com/

You, and anyone else, can see them there. (For anyone else BESIDES James, message me and I'll send you the link for the whole site off this thread. I want Jimmy-boy to actually have to work at something besides running off his mouth (or fingers in this case).

So, you were grossly mistaken when you said no parts of the plane or engine were found, James. The first step towards recovery is acceptance. We'll pray for you.

Ok let's start with Todd;

We have Canadian Soldiers dieing in Afghanistan right now over this lie & my freedoms have been limited because of this lie & I can for see a Nuclear Bomb going off somewhere in the USA, affecting Canada because of this lie & I hope those 3 things are enough for me to have concern.

David B. still cannot come up with "both engines" or anything I asked him about. I went & looked at the photo's he said & I see nothing but small unscratched & unburned wreckage, proving to me that the engines & black boxes should exist. Therefore until he can come up with something I asked him for, there is no use in making further comments to him.

Charles... the concussion from the hit of the aircraft was an hour or more past before the towers fell & so they were not driven down by their explosion.

James,
Our main concern in Afganistan is the Taliban, the last time I checked they had no connections/or claims to the 9/11 attack. As far as I know unless I'm extremely mis-informed, Bin-Laden and Al-Quida claimed responsibility for that attack. So your soldiers are not dying because of 9/11, they are dying for the same reasons ours are; That's fighting terrorism period, both your country and ours would be their regardless of 9/11

Oh, one more thing James; David is gonna make you work to prove your point, and I applaud him for that cause I'm definitely with him 100% on this (Damn, I didn't want to get into this) but I went ahead and did what he suggested, which by the way you didn't and low and behold look what I found, and this is just 1/8th of the info I'm willing to submit to you in your ridiculous attempt to discredit our gov't. So, I'm not a pilot, scientist, scholar or politician but I'm a hell of a researcher, and for almost every point of yours I'll find a counterpoint. Now let's start right here and get you lots of Gather points............EXPLAIN THIS............


Eye Witness Testimony

Lets look at some eye witness testimony sticking only to people who saw a plane hit the building, and not look at people who saw an airliner, but didn't see an airplane hit the building because they looked away or were too far away (behind a hill, behind a building, etc) to see it actually hit the building.


"Aydan Kizildrgli, an English language student who is a native of Turkey, saw the jetliner bank slightly then strike a western wall of the huge five-sided building that is the headquarters of the nation's military. 'There was a big boom,' he said. 'Everybody was in shock. I turned around to the car behind me and yelled "Did you see that?" Nobody could believe it.'"
- "Bush Vows Retaliation for 'Evil Acts'." USA Today, 11 Sep 2001

"Frank Probst, an information management specialist for the Pentagon Renovation Program, left his office trailer near the Pentagon's south parking lot at 9:36 a.m. Sept. 11. Walking north beside Route 27, he suddenly saw a commercial airliner crest the hilltop Navy Annex. American Airlines Flight 77 reached him so fast and flew so low that Probst dropped to the ground, fearing he'd lose his head to its right engine."
- "A Defiant Recovery." The Retired Officer Magazine, January 2002

"Omar Campo, a Salvadorean, was cutting the grass on the other side of the road when the plane flew over his head. 'It was a passenger plane. I think an American Airways plane,' Mr Campo said. 'I was cutting the grass and it came in screaming over my head. I felt the impact. The whole ground shook and the whole area was full of fire. I could never imagine I would see anything like that here.'"
- "Pentagon Eyewitness Accounts." The Guardian, 12 Sep 2001

"Afework Hagos, a computer programmer, was on his way to work but stuck in a traffic jam near the Pentagon when the plane flew over. 'There was a huge screaming noise and I got out of the car as the plane came over. Everybody was running away in different directions. It was tilting its wings up and down like it was trying to balance. It hit some lampposts on the way in.'"
- "Pentagon Eyewitness Accounts." The Guardian, 12 Sep 2001

"Henry Ticknor, intern minister at the Unitarian Universalist Church of Arlington, Virginia, was driving to church that Tuesday morning when American Airlines Flight 77 came in fast and low over his car and struck the Pentagon. 'There was a puff of white smoke and then a huge billowing black cloud,' he said."
- "Hell on Earth." UU World, Jan/Feb 20

"We were the only people, we think, who saw it live," Dan Creed said. He and two colleagues from Oracle software were stopped in a car near the Naval Annex, next to the Pentagon, when they saw the plane dive down and level off. "It was no more than 30 feet off the ground, and it was screaming. It was just screaming. It was nothing more than a guided missile at that point," Creed said. "I can still see the plane. I can still see it right now. It's just the most frightening thing in the world, going full speed, going full throttle, its wheels up," - Ahwatukee Foothill News

Gary Bauer former Presidential candidate, "I looked at the woman sitting in the car next to me. She had this startled look on her face. We were all thinking the same thing. We looked out the front of our windows to try to see the plane, and it wasn�t until a few seconds later that we realized the jet was coming up behind us on that major highway. And it veered to the right into the Pentagon. The blast literally rocked all of our cars. It was an incredible moment." Massachusetts News

Sean Boger, Air Traffic Controller and Pentagon tower chief - "I just looked up and I saw the big nose and the wings of the aircraft coming right at us and I just watched it hit the building," Air Traffic Controller and Pentagon tower chief Sean Boger said. "It exploded. I fell to the ground and covered my head. I could actually hear the metal going through the building." dcmilitary.com November 16, 2001

"The only way you could tell that an aircraft was inside was that we saw pieces of the nose gear. The devastation was horrific. It was obvious that some of the victims we found had no time to react. The distance the firefighters had to travel down corridors to reach the fires was a problem. With only a good 25 minutes of air in their SCBA bottles, to save air they left off their face pieces as they walked and took in a lot of smoke," Captain Defina said. Captain Defina was the shift commander [of an aircraft rescue firefighters crew.] NFPA Journal November 1, 2001

That's just a small smattering of people who have gone on record as seeing the plane, and the plane hit the Pentagon. I could have included the dozens of people who saw the plane, but didn't see it hit (because it went behind a bridge, a hill, or some trees), but I choose only to post the ones that sounded the most valid and actually saw the plane hit the building. (I included the one firechief who states he saw some plane wreckage during firefighting/rescue attempts.) There are most likely twenty times more that either haven't been publicly recorded as seeing the crash, or simply don't want the attention. You can't honestly sit there and deny the witnesses, the photographs, the facts, the science, and the reality that there was a terrorist attack on the Pentagon if you look at everything available and not one single tidbit of information at a time.

911 Tape of EMV responding to the Pentagon - includes video outside and inside the building in some areas. (Real Audio Required)


Conclusion
I highly doubt that local firefighters would be involved in any sort of a coverup. I highly doubt that local police officers would be involved in any sort of a government cover up. Cops and firemen are just average Joes like you and me, who go home to the wife and kids, and just try to make a living and have a good life for their families (I have many friends in both professions - of course the firemen are usually more stable marriage-wise because of their job but that doesn't make the cops any less human than you or I). The men and women who pulled over a hundred people (dead and alive) out of that building would more likely than not have noticed somebody carrying over 60 bodies into the middle of the fire they were fighting. To say that the plane that hit the Pentagon was not filled with every single person who died in this terrorist attack (not counting the unfortunate people inside the building) is one thing and one thing only - ignorant.

Review the facts

Size of 757 matches the initial size of hole in the building - somewhere between 13 and 16 feet (757 is 13 feet wide/high)

Rims found in building match those of a 757

Small turbine engine outside is an APU

Same engine has been clearly stated to not match a Global Hawk engine

Blue seats from 757 laying on ground in photos

Part of "American" fuselage logo visible in more than 1 photo

Engine parts photographed inside match a Rolls-Royce RB211

Structural components photographed in wreckage match Boeing paint primer schemes

Large deisel generator in front of building hit by a large heavy object

Large deisel engine outside is spun towards the building - could not be result of bomb blast or missile explosion

Multiple eye witnesses say they saw an airliner

Multiple eye witnesses say they saw an airliner hit the Pentagon

60+ bodies, matching the passenger list and flight crew roster identified and returned to families from Pentagon wreckage


You cannot dispute the facts, a 757 hit the Pentagon killing everyone onboard and many inside the building. It was a terrorist attack and the only fault with the government here is with their failure to prevent or stop it

"Let's Rock and Roll James"

I really don't even want to get into the middle of this one ,so I'll make this comment short! Todd is right Our MAIN concern in Afganistan is the Taliban...like it or not! Whole different subject here....I have family there as I am writing this, so please don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about either.

If you could do it Charles, that would be a feat in itself. Yet it did not happen. Todd, the only tape in which Bin Laden claims responsibility is in one "doctored tape". I saw the tape & I can see it is doctored. Any other time he has been asked, he says he is not responsible. Bin Laden says he had nothing to do with 911, but let's just suppose he is lieing ok. How could he pull of the controlled detonation by himself. He would need the help of the Head of Security for the Towers (Bush's Brother) to shut down the entire building (which they did) to pull off such a feat of rigging the entire 2 structures.

We (Canadians) are not in Afghanistan to stop World Terrorism, & if we were, I would make sure we put our leaders in the "Looney Bin". We are there to take out the Taliban, because they gave safe haven to Bin Laden & his terrorists who probably did not even do it! Never mind if they did, they had to be on the Government payroll as before, & you seem not to want to look at the facts in the MOVIE.

Bin Laden was taken to hospital in 98 & escorted there by the CIA. They sure wanted him didn't they? Again in the MOVIE.

If you watched the MOVIE... you would see where they have evidence that Rolls Royce said it was not one of their engines found! I suggest you watch the MOVIE!

Thank you for looking into the same things I've found. You've summarized it quite nicely. Ask James for some of the golden cookies he's hoarding.

Pay attention to this next part. This is getting better for us in the discussion. ;)

James;

You HAVE to lose that dismissive attitude, buddy. Every time you attempt to blow me off, it just makes me work harder to show what a lightweight argument you have.

The following excerpts can be found on the link provided. Lest you think I'm cherry-picking statements, I've to take it easy on you this time and not make you search for it. See, I really AM a nice guy.

The two paragraphs, or so that are most relevant to our discussion are being posted. The whole article is really quite interesting, and I recommend everyone take a look for themselves. The article answers completely the false claim that Flight 77 didn't actually crash into the Pentagon.

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/conspiracy/q0265.shtml

(The above analysis indicates that the Pentagon debris does in fact match the characteristics of a rotor disk from the Rolls-Royce RB211-535. The wreckage is most likely a compressor stage given the shape of the dovetail slots. It is difficult to be certain exactly which compressor disk it is since the six rotors of the intermediate pressure section and six high pressure compressor disks are of similar size. The primary difference from one compressor to the next is the smaller span of the compressor blades as the air flows further into the engine, but these blades are no longer attached to the wreckage. However, additional clues in the photo suggest the rotor disk is probably from the high pressure section or perhaps the very last disk of the intermediate pressure compressors.

In summary, we have studied two key pieces of wreckage photographed at the Pentagon shortly after September 11 and found them to be entirely consistent with the Rolls-Royce RB211-535 turbofan engine found on a Boeing 757 operated by American Airlines. The circular engine disk debris is just the right size and shape to match the compressor stages of the RB211, and it also shows evidence of being attached to a triple-shaft turbofan like the RB211. While many have claimed the wreckage instead comes from a JT8D or AE3007H turbofan, we have shown that these engines are too small to match the debris. Furthermore, we have studied what clearly looks like the outer shell of a combustion case and found that its fuel injector nozzle ports match up exactly to those illustrated in Boeing documentation for the RB211-535 engine. There is simply no evidence to suggest these items came from any other engine model than the RB211-535, and the vast majority of these engines are only used on one type of plane--the Boeing 757.

Update!
One common question we've seen on sites critical of a Boeing 757 striking the Pentagon is why is there so little engine wreckage. The only identifiable engine components seen so far are the two discussed above. Since these pieces represent so little of the two large engines carried by a 757, those believing in conspiracy suggest that these small items were planted and the lack of more substantial debris is proof of a cover-up. If a 757 truly hit the Pentagon, they argue, then where is the rest of the two engines? This argument ignores the simple fact that a lack of photos of other engine parts does not mean that none existed, only that other engine components were either not photographed or the photos have not yet been released.)

As an aside, and in response to Debbie H.:

Debbie, I don't disagree with you and Todd about Afghanistan. I'm not ready to go as you and Afghanistan is "the MAIN concern," but it is a VERY important theater in the global war on terror. I can empathize with you and your concern over your relative currently stationed there. My stepson is a Marine who has served in Both Iraq and Afghanistan. He was discharged last week and will be home for good this Sunday. My wife and I will pray they make it home safe and sound. Please know that we appreciate the sacrifice your relative and your family are making for the rest of us, and please pass along our gratitude for the service of your loved one.

oops! That first paragraph was to Todd L.

James I watched,(you are really starting to piss me off with this fuckin movie) it. You don't get it do you....I think it's bullshit....You are the most ridiculous person I have ever spoken to. You totally ignored my comments. Don't play with me James, I not anyone of these other people you have been trying to bullshit. You don't even know your own countries agendas concerning the war. How can you you claim to know ours. Now you're gonna blame the Taliban and our Gov't...I not just talking about tapes, and you make it sound like you are the only one to have information.

Let's try this again...
Answer my last post with credible evidence to disprove what was stated and then we'll go from there. Don't try to switch subjects in mainstream. And besides what convinces you that everything in the MOVIE is gospel. Did you ever consider those people were Anti-American assholes trying to get gullible people like you to follow their lead and undermine the US Gov't. No of course you didn't. You are doing everything you accuse all of us of doing, and thats to believe something YOU yourself can't prove without someone elses lame as conspiracy theory. Do you really hate the U.S. that much....You my friend need help....But lets get back to the issue.

Answer my last post with credible evidence to disprove what was stated and then we'll go from there

You know David;

I am tired of you going to your links when you have not even watched the MOVIE & if you did, you would not be bringing up all this crap that they cover in it.

As far as a "war on terrorism" that is nuts! Only some uneducated American could come up with that one! Terrorism is a tactic & not an entity! The war in Iraq is sick & lost, as the Generals keep telling Bush, but he has the power to go on blindly anyway. The head General of NATO says Afghanistan has no "Military Solution" & they are working on bringing back parts of the Taliban to run the Govt. simply because they realize that it too has been & will be a total failure!

After the November Elections, Bush's money supply will be cut off by Congress & the investigations into all this crap will begin.

Then come to me in 6 months & tell me how right you were! I would like to see that!

Yet for the rest of you... please watch the MOVIE:

9/11 Mysteries (video)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6708190071483512003

Gee James ,

I feel left out....I didn't post links I posted facts....Try answering to them...

I got ya David, understood...Thanks

Todd can we start with the Documented evidence that Rolls Royce said it is not one of their engines for that plane? Then we can move on to the rest. It's in the MOVIE:

9/11 Mysteries (video)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6708190071483512003