In Fiscal Cliff remarks Monday afternoon, the President noted that an agreement was in hand on the level at which the Bush tax cuts would expire, but a comprehensive plan to address all issues involved was not possible "with this Congress at this time."
As late as seven o'clock Monday evening, disagreements remained over much of the deficit reduction portions of the package and which parts would be dealt with in any approved plan. There does seem to be agreement that raising the spending limit will occur after all this excitement is over. By 10:00 pm, Senate officials were "backgrounding" that a deal had been reached. However, they refused to discuss details, on the grounds that they were not authorized. A Senate vote may occur before midnight.
Republicans have been insisting that they will demand deep spending cuts before they agree to another debt limit increase, and they don't want to hear any more about increased revenue. The President had some remarks to make about that. In effect, he drew his line in the sand today and laid detonation cord in it. As part of today's remarks, President Obama said, "Now, if Republicans think that I will finish the job of deficit reduction through spending cuts alone — and you hear that sometimes coming from them ... then they've got another think coming. ... That's not how it's going to work at least as long as I'm president.
And I'm going to be president for the next four years, I think," he added.
America may be looking at another rapidly approaching fiscal cliff within a couple of months of the next Congress's swearing in.
As of this writing, negotiators had agreed to: allow the Bush tax cuts to expire on earnings of $450,000 and above for families, and $400,000 for individuals, an increase from 15% to 20% on dividends and capital gains, starting at the same income levels, a five percentage point increase (from 35% to 40%) in inheritance taxes, with a $5 million deductible, and a couple of small housekeeping issues like the Alternative Minimum Tax and some breaks for poor families earning sub poverty incomes. They have now apparently agreed to some method of controlling the cuts that threaten to stall work at virtually every department of government, as personnel are furloughed during the next several weeks if the cuts are not controlled, but, because they are not "authorized to discuss details," Senate officials are saying nothing about these issues. The reality is... not all cuts will be "controlled." Some may be even more draconian than the sequestration bill proposed, because significant reductions in expenditures are still going to have to occur.
And let no one forget, there are ideologues in both parties who will willingly sink America's economic ship, shove her back into a recession, over a point of political philosophy. There are those who view their political vision as being more important than the continuation of a recovery that has been carrying America forward for the last two years. They would rather see unemployment at 9 percent or higher than accede to an opponent's point of view for the moment. The Republicans have done it before, and there are Democrats who have threatened to do it this round by filibuster. Self-righteousness is a terrible disease. Because of it, this whole negotiation could blow up at the point of the vote, after everyone believes disaster has been averted.
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Comments: 94
The phrase is meaningless and says more about the obdurate and obtuse mindset of those who who rely on the phrase as a pejorative condemnation of politicians they disagree with.
In your haste to characterize the progressives as "tax and spend liberals" you have thrown your lot in with those who have broken your economy and nation.
Enjoying, as you do, one of the lowest tax regimes in the industrialized world, it is profoundly imbecilic to continue to insist that you have been taxed "excessively".
This is all an exercise in math and logic to me.
We have a 16 trillion dollar debt and a 6 trillion dollar deficit...talk that away with sophistry...
The latest news is that the Senate worked late last night and passed a bill and that it now goes to the House for a vote; the House convening at noon EST. (Permit me a moment of snark: Will the esteemed members of the House have recovered enough from their collective hangovers to get something accomplished? Or was their (comparatively) early departure from their workplace a recognition that they were going to require several stiff drinks in order to FINALLY do the damn job they were elected to do? Only time will tell...but I digress).
Party loyalty and political ideology has gone entirely too far in preventing any meaningful business accomplished. This Congress has only passed 218 bills--the lowest number in this country's history. The previous lowest number was in the 300s. Talk about a "Do Nothing" Congress. What alarms me is that it is now 'up to the House'. That fact is very likely to go to their heads with some kind of nasty power trip--but perhaps it is starting to dawn on them that they will carry the entire blame for the results of the country 'going over the edge' if they don't get the job done today.
Char, I am curious about your comment--military spending on withdrawal (which is necessary, at some point) vs. continuing the armed conflicts really hasn't been featured as a critical point in any budget plans I've heard about. Would you mind providing further information about that? Another question: has the U.S. ever hired mercenaries in place of U.S. military during an ongoing armed conflict? (very serious question).
military spending on withdrawal (which is necessary, at some point) vs. continuing the armed conflicts really hasn't been featured as a critical point in any budget plans I've heard about
That's true too. But why would it be?
Exactly--why I asked the question in the first place.
For example, public education raised up the standard of living, the employable skills and the quality of life for generations of Americans and other nationalities around the world who invested their tax dollars in it.
Public works, such as road and bridge construction along with public water works and the electrical grid and communications grids also had far reaching and long lasting positive effects for society.
Granted, some government spending is more ephemeral than that, and amounts to nothing more than the wanking you alluded to with your reference to a lap dance budget, but not all of it.
And that is the problem with the right wing knee-jerk opposition to government and all it does and all it stands for: you would throw the baby out with the bath water.
Private investment, on the other hand, makes the economy move...stupid investment is met with failure...
Of course, you are convinced that the opposite is true, but that is mere conviction, not knowledge or even informed opinion.
As for the rest of the issue- the cuts in federal spending- why did the Republicans basically ignore that issue? they did not have to waste everyone's attention and energy for an entire month fighting to preserve low taxes for the super rich that were doomed to go away. it would be nice to actually make some more cuts to the military and to entitlements but now I am wondering if that can is going to get kicked.
I wish that the Republicans had been willing to sign off on the agreement with Obama a year ago when he was promising deeper cuts. But no, they ducked out of that one, hoping to win the election. We all know how that went.
Greed used to be one of the seven deadly sins. Now it is a virtue.
So the question now becomes what to do about it? What is your plan?
Continue to borrow and print 46 cents of every dollar? The problem with that is that eventually the credit rating agencies will down grade us further and then our currency will collapse. What will your I.O.Us be worth when a dollar is worth a penny in today's money?
The only solution is to balance the budget and all of the entitlements as soon as possible. The only way to do that is to cut spending across the board.
There is no such animal as a "spending cut."
They seem to only be willing to cut increases, not real spending. Great point. Obama said during his speech that he would be willing to cut Medicare if healthcare prices were lower. Am I the only one who thinks that is crazy???
Who are "they?"
Inspires confidence, no?
The Republican Party seems to have a huge blind spot when it comes to recognizing that real people will be paying the price for their insistence on protecting the rich--or at least, that is how it is being spun in the press.
Another way to say it ... If you made $40000 a year this is a $14.55 raise.
Why don't I feel relieved?
Oh what joy in all the land!
Would you please share the equations that gave you that result? Might go a long way towards educating the rest of us.
Not a winning campaign slogan, but it is the truth.
I hope the people that voted this and asked for it are happy with the results, because the results are going to be a financial meltdown worse than Greece, and will open the gates to socialism. Just what the administration wants, and has made no denial about since 2008.
The words of the Administration was 'We''ll do Socialism Better".....
truth [trooth]
noun, plural truths [trooth z, trooths] .
1. the true or actual state of a matter.
2. conformity with fact or reality; verity: the truth of a statement.
3. a verified or indisputable fact, proposition, principle, or the like: mathematical truths.
4. the state or character of being true.
5. actuality or actual existence.
driv·el [driv-uh l] noun, verb, driv·eled, driv·el·ing or ( especially British ) driv·elled, driv·el·ling.
noun
1. saliva flowing from the mouth, or mucus from the nose; slaver.
2. childish, silly, or meaningless talk or thinking; nonsense; twaddle.
Keep those in mind, may they serve you well.
if to be precise, the truth is an abstract notion and cannot be considered as any kind of a measure, as it IS always subjective: what is the truth for one person is not/may not be the truth for another person;
the truth is just an opposite to a lie, as all the Truth is known to God only, the truth given to the Men is not complete, thus cannot be considered to be the truth, it could be considered a part of the Truth;
if you speak of the facts that may (in your opinion) constitute the truth, you still speak of the facts which are not the truth and cannot be considered the whole truth! In Slavic Languages, the truth is translated as pravda which, in fact, is the Latin fraudis! Lingua facet vitam, sed vita non est totam veritatim. Ivan Petryshyn
Belief in God, which I hold and is of great importance to me, does not replace learning and knowledge. To believe in God so as to rely on Him solely for all truth, to expect Him to spoon feed us everything and discover nothing for ourselves, is to abdicate responsibility for using the gift of intelligence He bestowed on us. That would be unwise, ungrateful and uninspired.
Unless you make 400k a year (and NONE of you do) this preserves your 2012 income tax rate. What are you worried about? It got 89 votes in the Senate, about as bipartisan as it is possible to ever get. What are you worried about?
I predict there will be a big fight in the House, but it will pass over the Tea Party objections. Does it solve all of our nations problems? No. But we faced disaster without an agreement, and the Senate faced up to it and made an agreement. Be glass half empty if you want. I look at the alternative and I am pleased.
Exactly. This was a baby step to fix a fake problem the Republicans in Congress created because it is too afraid to make a decision that would upset of the extremist tea party (who would run against them in primaries).
I feel for President Obama. It's hard being the only adult in Washington DC.
I don't think he is lonely he has lots of Hitler/Lenin/Stalin types standing behind him rooting for him.
I refuse to say "Hail Obama". I wonder if they will put me in jail? I read today that they are forming training camps for a Gulag type of militia squads for door to door seizures of your guns (I sure hope it's not true).
I refuse to say "Hail Obama". I wonder if they will put me in jail? I read today that they are forming training camps for a Gulag type of militia squads for door to door seizures of your guns (I sure hope it's not true).
But you're sure willing to infer that it is on zero evidence. Let me guess, you never watch Fox News either. So exactly where does your blinding insight come from?
Oh never mind. it's a fantasy in the first place, it's not supposed to actually make sense.
PENSACOLA BURNING!!!!!!!!
OFF THE PIGS!!!!!!!!
ATTICA!!!!! ATTICA!!!! ATTICA!!!!!
CHE! CHE! CHE!
VIVA LA REVOLUCION!!!
VIVA ZAPATA!!!
VIVA VILLA!!!
VIVA JO JO!!!
My point is, we've been watching obstructionism for its own sake, and the sort of statesmanship that used to occur, no longer did. Perhaps, with the TEA-Twits no longer able to dictate the Speaker's actions, he will begin to rein in the nonsense and actually deal with his Democrat counterparts. The end of the world as we know it may be a month or two away... yet.
We are going to see an increasing series of brinksmanship over phony crises until 2014. Then we will see if we are going down the progressive road to ruin or are going to adopt some real (but painful) spending cuts...
In the mean time, Jo Jo is the net winner, here. SWiMBO* and I make a tad less than 450 a year and I got money in the market and it is going mad...for now...
I am hopeful for the housing market as well...
Good for Jo Jo...not good for the country...
BTW, I spent nine years in a multi-county planning agency, where I dealt with federal, state and local funding of a wondrous variety of "investment grade" projects. I was there when the federal government adopted the Clean this and clean-up that legislation, and started handing out funds to build sewage treatment plants, bridges and highways, and began cleaning up the superfund sites of America. Diud some stupid stuff happen? Absodamlutely! ("Hey, I know cried the Mayor, "let's build a road and put in a modern sewer while we're at it." So they got highway funds, and built the road because the feds in the highway department wouldn't let them keep the money until the sewer money was approved by the feds in the water quality department. Then they dug a trench down the middle of the road to drop the sewer in, thereby ruining the road forever.). But for the most part the only really stupid thing that happened was the feds withholding highway money that couldn't be used for anything else, pretending it brought the budget closer to equivalence.
Clean air and clean water don't happen when left to the states. They cheerfully gamble their children's and parents' health against jobs, because they're competing against each other for the same jobs (the ones that aren't going overseas, anyway). Don't believe me? Listen to the idiot TEA-Twits demand rollback of "unnecessary" environmental regulations. It's not as if they had any understanding of the regulations. They do not, in fact, give a damn whether the regulations are effective or not. They just want them eliminated so their industries have an advantage price-wise.
Duuhhuuhuhuuh!!!
And that, Kiddies, is why we have a bi-cameral legislative body...
Mebbe Obama shouldn't have done his touch down dance so soon...
THANK YOU DR. KEYNES
by Jo Jo The Dog Faced Boy
(Around the kitchen table)
DADDY- Our credit card debt is out of control...we have to live within our means...
MOMMY- Well, I can't do without my facial and nail appointments...those girls DEPEND ON ME for their income...Can't you just work harder and get more money???
KIDDIES- We don't want to live like (shudder) poor people...MORE VIDEO GAMES!! MORE SHOES!! MORE EVERYTHING (Begin Chanting)...
DADDY- ok, ok...I'll get another job, cancel the life insurance and stop contributing to the college fund and 401k. That will help cut the deficit...FOR A LITTLE WHILE...
MOMMY AND KIDDIES (in Unison) MORE! MORE! MORE!....We need more...We deserve MORE! MORE! MORE!
THREE BILLION HUNGRY CHINAMEN- HEH, HEH, HEH, HEH, (LICKING CHOPS) HEH, HEH, HEH... (BANGING CHOPSTICKS ON TABLE) HEH, HEH, HEH!!!!
Well, y'know... you're probably half right. We do tend to demand our bread and circuses. We also demand a military that can fight two-and-a-half wars at a time and military toys that are far and away beyond any other country's. Yeah, we can do a lot to reduce our spend, but eveybody agrees on that. What the fight is over now is what to cut. The administration suggested our spy budget is bloated. The House canceled a third of his cuts there. Not that they had any real idea of what was necessary, they just responded to lobbying.
Look what happened when Clinton tinkered with the intelligence community...
We need to stop "country building" and take a low budget approach...More Navy Seals whacking anonamous, trouble making dick wads in the middle of the night...
"ended" war in Iraq...
Got ben Laden...
At any rate, "country buildin'" is a fool's game. We never seem to learn. Iraq is starting to come apart now that we're mostly gone, and Karzai started plundering Afghanistan the day his plane landed.
And Americans think our military is weak. People actually asked me during the run-up to Bush I's Gulf War whether we could win it. That's part of why we keep hearing that we can't cut our military budget.
You are a self-appointed liberal pri ...GAAAAAAAACK!!!!! *Thought Police Attack!*
Racism and misogyny. No matter how many questions marks and exclamations points you care to type!