Teachers put their own money into their classrooms

The right wing says that these government employees are worthless and do no good. The right seems to think such people should be fired and replaced by for profit schools only. The teachers are not the problem in the schools, it's the model of education that's to blame.

The right keeps repeating that they love teachers just hate teachers unions. Who do they think make up and run the teacher's unions???!!!! Those same teachers!!!

I don't agree with you,Peter. A union boss once said that they don't care about the kids because they don't pay dues;doesn't sound like anything a teacher would say to me. Larry,you're right in saying that it's not the teachers that are the problem-it's the Teachers' Unions! They are indicative of all public employee unions in that there is no incentive to improve the quality of their industry,because there is nobody to compete against them. They are a monopoly,and they should either accept competition-or be banned outright.

norman,

Let's say there were no teachers unions. What policies would be different. What actions would be different. Would teaching improve? Would teachers work for less? Would more highly qualified people be attracted to the teaching profession? In the days before unions was that what happened in businesses?

Today's unions (in my opinion) have become the very thing unions were formed to counter in the first place;now,instead of the employers saying,"It's my way or the highway",it's the unions saying it. Would teaching improve? Maybe. Well-qualified teachers SHOULD be paid well,and superior teachers should get incentive pay (which the unions have opposed). Different policies? The local education boards (and the parents) would run the schools,not the State-and certainly not the unions.

norman,

What makes you think the State would stop running the schools? What makes you think big money (for the area) interests would not run the school boards?

Did you see my post on how the schools might be better organized?

You should also consider the way top down management effects textbook choices, milking money to replace textbooks that could be reused, but are not. (Have to get the payola from textbook manufacturers.). Like we have discussed before, Larry, why not go back to tried and true reading methods? I can remember lists of who had used my book with 10 or 15 names when they were checked out to me.

Char,

You are right on the button. Those frequently replaced textbooks are just part of the big money scams to suck money out of public education.

The tried and true reading methods are effective and eliminate the need for "remedial reading" programs (expensive). In fact, parents can teach their children to read at home and don't even need the schools for that.

And most of all why is there not lots of support for home schooling to take the load off the public schools?

>A union boss once said that they don't care about the kids because they don't pay dues

I don't believe that for a second. Why would a union boss say that, and to who was he talking???!!!!

Just the same, they have instituted rules that make truly bad teaches invulnerable to dismissal. Who was thinking of the kids when they voted for that at their union hall, or did the bosses give them a choice? After all, even if they are being paid to sit out, they are paying their dues.

Ah the bad teacher tenure myth...nonsense.

A union boss once said that they don't care about the kids because they don't pay dues

Obvious lie. If you dont have any argument make one up.

Lori, when they put the teacher tenure in, I actually supported that. I see how business dismisses longer workers as they train their replacements to get payroll costs down. This does dishonor loyalty and experience the children need. Still, it needs the balance of being able to remove any who are BAD teachers. There are some, you know. Those who limped through to tenure, but need to be replaced. Tenure should not be automatic, but granted by results and ability. Just like college entrance should be for the best qualified to excel, whoever they are. The Asians often lead this list, so ALL must compete. Yet, that is what is kept America so great so far. As soon as "everybody" started getting trophies, we began to slip. Children need to learn there is a path to success that requires effort, not just entitlement. We have strayed from that, as a country.

There are sitting halls. Shall I did up a video? Couldn't find a video, but this article claims at that time there were about $30 million a year in sitting teachers in NYC alone. SO, is not a myth, by any means.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/16/new-york-teacher-rubber-rooms

Just in case You insult the source, here is a NY Post article. There are also 2 documentaries out there. This article says there is one teacher who has been there, drawing a salary, for 12 years. TWELVE years. Jeez! Call me a tale carrier...

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/bored_of_ed_in_fPRMkAqNVBQ4hWAs1XYICM

Lori, This was established as fact, not myth in 2009, catch up.

Some states have teachers unions and some do not. I would be interested to see a study comparing the effectiveness of those states with and without the unions in how their students do.

I wouldn't know. Even Fl (RTW) has teacher unions. I didn't know any didn't.

Five states that do not have unions in schools, TX, SC, NC, GA, And VA. They rank between 25th and 46th as of 2007. I looked it up.

Those aren't great rankings, not to mention, they're all RED states, x VA!

Well, statistically, all ranking in the bottom half would be by chance only one time in 32. But states with bad schools may want to prevent unions so the cause (if any) may be from the other direction. Those are also Southern states which have a history of poorer education.

It's an economic thing, too. They are poorer states. The poor spend more time, making less money to survive. That leaves less time for education, or so it seems. Which means they make less money, and so it goes. Proven fact, at least I accept it as such. Florida is equally poor however and does better.

There is a blue ribbon rating given to only 250 or so schools each year for achieving various landmarks. I was so pleased to see 2 of those schools were in my county, and 7 overall were given in Fl. We are doing better and better with using magnet schools and allowing more choice. Gov. Scott is big on education. He found money, by setting good priorities, and upped the budget this yr by a huge amount, but I forget the number, way more than COL.

From a quote attributed to Albert Shanker,the late leader of the American Federation of Teachers: "When schoolchildren start paying union dues,that's when I'll start representing the interests of schoolchildren".

norman,

And if the teachers' unions feel that way about the kids you can guess what the school administrators and school boards feel. Is it any wonder schools are boring and stressful for the students and that so little education takes place in schools? We should be ashamed to treat children as we do.

Florida is using more and more choice and magnet schools, private for profit, which do not have unions. They are succeeding where govt union schools are not. That says something.

Char,

It says they choose which students to admit. If you only admit the good students you get a good result.

Actually, if the student files an application to go there, admission is by lottery if there are too many requests, which there always are. Choice is supposed to be first come, first serve. From the Fl website. this being written for choice and magnet schools.

"Students are selected for vacant seats in the following order:
students are taken in sequential order from established waiting list
when there is no waiting list, students are randomly selected from the applicant pool"

So, they are not picking and choosing. I was looking at the data, and the balance actually looks good in most. There is a concentrated area where there are 3 far from all the others, no doubt to make sure they were accessible to enough minority children, because in spite of fair representation in other schools, these seemed to be higher minority, leading me to think the minority representation in these schools may exceed their occurrence in the population at large. Not what you were thinking?

Char,

Are these choice and magnet schools located in the poorer neighborhoods? I know some school districts try to locate them there in order to encourage racial diversity.

In Fl, most everyone is poor. All neighborhoods are diverse, but by choice there are some places where certain ethnic groups live near each other. The magnet schools choose their own locations. They are for profit, and therefor try to be convenient enough ton stay full. They are also very mindful of quality or nobody would want to go there and they would die. It seems competition was a good thing. :). Not all schools get a trophy for effort...

BTW, regarding the placement, there may be additional revenue for seeking higher diversity. I don't know all the govt incentives. I know Scott is serious about education. He also was raised by a single Mom with food stamps, so he has a big heart for the less fortunate. I do not understand why they hate him so much.

Where do you get that in Fl almost ever one is poor? Is your area of the state missing the middle class neighborhoods and the gated yacht club and golf communities? I think not.

Here, the charter schools started in poor areas all failed. They could not meet the standards due to the quality of student they could attract.

The children of the rich go to private schools which of course succeed due to their fantastic tuition funding.

You live in a different Fl Char.

Well, I guess I didn't consider the REALLY rich. Most of the golf courses here are surrounded by retired people, not families. The middle class has been mostly reduced to one level, all of it struggling since NASA phased back. Everyone is struggling to find work, and employers are taking advantage by lowering wages, knowing someone will take it. Most jobs are not only low wage, but part time. They over schedule, then give even more time off if they aren't busy, making very low wages. Yes, everyone is poor it seems. The middle class is getting really squeezed with higher costs. I have never seen it so bad, and I have lived here all my life. Of course there are higher middle class neighborhoods, but even these are down. Even waterfront, down as much as 25%, a real shocker. There just aren't that many truly rich. Some, but not many. A very famous actor bought here recently. I won't say, real estate's honor. That is a specific, finite property. Very few to compare to it.

See your point Char.

Besides that, Jim, more money isn't always more success. That is why I think we have to be more careful how the money is spent, not just how much. Teachers deserve their due, for sure. Entrusted with the future of America, they have responsibility, too. To teach our children HOW to think and research, not WHAT to think...

Char,

I really like that last sentence. Yes, in spades.

It's a shame, they should not have to do that.

I knew that. Teaching is the most common profession in my family.

It is a shame.

As a teacher, I know this to be true!!!

Karen,

My SIL is a teacher too. I know she gives a lot of her own money to buy items.

We know what we hope to present, and show, but if the materials are lacking, so might our lessons. So we dig down, and supply our own tools to convey the messages to the children. We go home poorer, but richer in the long run. We know we got the lesson across... That is why we teach. Because we love the children's faces when they "get it." "Aha! moments" are what we live for.

God bless you Karen. May he give you many "aha" moments!!!

I know for a fact that the teachers in our area do spend a lot of their own money. The BOE does not have the funds it needs so the schools get cutbacks. That affects the classroom more than parents realize. My SIL is a teacher. We have always tried to donate back to school items each year to the school but this year, we just did not have it to give. I usually buy items when I am out of town when it is really cheap.

My Mom and Grandma and Grandpa were all teachers way back when and they all put their own money into their classroom for teaching aides, decorations etc. My grandparents retired from teaching when I was just out of high school and Mom was sick and did not teach full time after 1974 or so. The schools allowed so little money to each teacher for discretionary classroom expenses it was a necessity so the room they taught in would be bright, welcoming and a FUN place to learn. This is not a new thing by any means.

Not surprising. On "Donor Choose", classrooms ask for such basics as a chalkboard or bulletin board, workbooks, drawing paper.

I, for one am glad that teachers pitch in. We were very low income due to me working only two days a week and my hubby not being able to find a job. If it weren't for the teachers, my kids would not have got school supplies this year.

when I was a substitute teacher, I learned real fast to bring my own chalk and white board markers

Sad reality

Yes, It is a shame we spend so much money on all the wrong things, and the kids don't get what they need. The teachers should NOT have to buy basic supplies.

This is so true and they spent a lot more personal money this year than in previous years because the school budgets were all cut (nationwide). There are several members of my family that are school teachers and they "all" spend their own money for items that the schools once provided. I have one friend who keeps extra coats in her classroom for the students who do not come to school with a coat on a cold day (she loans them to the students to wear during the day if needed). Of course this doesn't come under what a school should supply but it's an indication that every student doesn't have the necessary or required supplies and the teachers usually provide what the school system won't. One of my niece's is an art teacher and she buys hundred of dollars worth of art supplies for her students every year. Standing in line behind her at the checkout counter in Wal Mart usually takes a while (LOL). Since football is king in Texas I have a feeling that the coaches don't have to put their personal money into obtaining the needed sports supplies and that's just not right.

In our schools the parents and students have clubs that raise the money for the uniforms. bake sales, car washes and carnivals with large benefit garage sales.

At least that's how it used to be, guess still is. Alumni sometimes help, too.

Thanks for posting to Point Taken. Have a great night!

Teachers!
The unsung hero's of our society...They do so much with so little for so many! God Bless Teachers!