I HATE YOU - I LOVE YOU

Simple. Hate the sin but never hate the sinner.

TRUE!

Isn't this amazing?

Totally amazing!!! Thanks for adding this image ... a great point of perspective ...

Dennis, this is really cool.

Very cool! Clever too!

OMG! Thank you for such soul searching article. So many thought are bombarding my mind about this. Number 1 is the scripture" you praise me with your mouth, but your heart is far from me". When I learned this scripture, the exact verse escaped me. However, it is written. Hatred is a forceful trap that I work hard to avoid.
Yes, I am tempted to hate things other than evil...as I write this, someone who knows better has just parked in front of the driveway, execuse me while I make myself visable.

Gee, I really want to label that guy as being something other than a child of God...I am positive he knows better than to block thae drive way. We have discussed this many times.. my presence did not mean anything to him. He simply looked at me, and turned his head.

Anyway, when I am tempted to hate, there is an agony that goes along with it that makes me feel uncomfortable, I don't like it...so, I immediately think of the subject of hatred as being created by my creator, I love my creator...how can I love the creator, and hate the creation...after all, do we not share the same breath of life...are our basic needs not the same regardless to our lifestyles? My conclusion is a resounding "YES". So, with that in mind, the only recourse I have that brings the peace I seek is to turn to the creator, and ask for help. Not only ask, but receive help. Remarkably, it comes when I submit myself to it.

Well, the guy is about to move his car. Besides, I wasn't going anywhere anyway. But, how would he know?

Thank you Rosa ... I have A LOT of real dislikes - some verge on hates - but in all actuality I don't think I have hated anyone. Yes, I could have ... & maybe my total dislike is a for of hatred. I will prayerfully keep this subject in my heart & see what The Holy Spirit responds back with.

Let's continue our discussion ...

C.L., this is a good discussion thread to start. I especially love Dennis's image above; this would make a good prompt for Writing Essentials, Dennis.

I think Dennis has stated the kernal of truth we all need to hold onto. We are and never will be perfect, if we were able in our own strength we would not have needed a savior.

I see the greatest failure of true Christians (and we know what it takes for that) is to show the love of God to fellow Christians but even moreso to those who have not yet recognized the God of the universe for Who He is. Beating people who don't believe in God as the originator of all things with one's Bible is a waste of time because if they don't believe in God they certainly won't believe the Bible is worth anything except for being ancient literature. Once they come to the knowledge that there has to be a Creator (regardless how the universe, earth and man got to the state it was when God created time and put man in it-after the fall) then the Bible will begin to speak to them. Until then we need to show them that Christianity is real and desireable by their seeing our changed lives and how we respond to life's challenges and how we incorporate God's word into our lives. If He loved the grossest of mankind enough to die for them how can we think it is okay not to try (in our warped, human way) to love them. That is a choice like all real love is and it is work. We try to conjure up all the same oceanic, touchy feely feelings when love is mentioned and that is not what God's love is like most of the time. We have to learn to love "in spite of" not "because of".

Many thanks Alice.

Alice, I wholeheaartedly agree with the things that both you and Dennis have written. My contention is that somethimes folk hate things that are not evil, folk who are not sinners. I believe this can be supported by scripture. There are folk who say they believe in God that have not been delivered from hatred, many churches are full of them, I have seen this. Hatred is a spirit that comes from the devil, and just as the alcoholic or drug addict needs deliverance so does the one who hates...it all depends upon the level of infestation.

By the way, Dennis the illustration is nice and I am convinced it is the culmination of the matter. Also, to get from point A to point B can be a trivial task for many folk. We need a savior.

Rosa, I will have to come back to this to adequately express what I am thinking here. I totally agree we "hate" many things that are not evil and we need to define what our concept of "hate" and "evil" are. (On a lighter note, I hate the taste of liver and would argue that it comes from the evil one except that I know the wonderful things the liver does in the bodies of God's creatures!).

Ok, Alice. I look forward to hear. Based on your reference with liver, I do not exactly speak from that standpoint. I speak from the standpoint of human relations as I understand this article to refer to...I hardly see a connection to personal preferences as it pertains to nutrition although there may very well be. However, my response does not eminate from that perspective. Based on the photo, there seems to be A dichotomous situation, meaning a battle between feelings of love and hatred. As a result, I restricted my comment to the human element of relationships with others as opposed to our choices of personal self indulgences.

Rosa, I know that and I completely agree with your take on this (I was just injecting a little humor in a very serious situation as it applies to true Christians-just a reminder that we take too lightly the use of "hate" versus strongly dislike and also that we focus our "hate" on the being of the individual as opposed to their actions (doings).

Thank you Alice & Rosa for bringing this into its proper focus ...

I was taught that I had to love everyone as God does, but I do not have to like what they do, lieing, stealing, doing drugs, etc.

Me too Pamela. It surprised me to find that there are folk who hate people because of their color, their weight, their height, the way they wear their hair, their age and a whole lot of other foolishness that have strayed away from the biblical description of love. These are the things that my comments are meant to address.

Love as God does ... I don't even think I'm close ...

My thoughts concerning this are: it's okay to feel emotional hate, although it's a lousy emotion. The problem is some go out of their way to let the hated feel that way and there is no reasoning with them. They think they are the only ones with negative emotions and abuse women, children, and the elderly. We may not like a co-worker, a neighbor, possibly a family member, though if they are not trying to bother us there is no reason 'to let them know how we feel." The feeling is all right though the negative actions are wrong. Just sayin.

Good points Vj ...

Well, there are other things I need to get done today. Alice, about that Liver, it does have a lot of iron in it. Be careful with it, because it is loaded with the bad kind of cholestrol. Have a great day, everyone:)

;)

My opinion on this is that it's okay to have the emotional feeling of hate, although it's a lousy one. The problem is when some have to let you know when they have negative emotions about you. How silly. If the other person is 'different' then they can keep their feelings private as long as the other person means no harm or is not trying to annoy them. This may sound simplistic, though many people do this. The problem is some act out their negative emotions or msiplace their anger on women, the elderly and children.

The point of misplaced emotions that turn into abuse are always promoted by evil ... to deal with that is a whole other realm altogether.

Not really CL it's still hate directed at person.

Hatred is evil ... & I do agree ...

Great post. One problem here with what Jesus tells us;" But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you..." (Matthew 5;44 NIV)

Nowhere is it said to be OK to hate one's enemies, but the reverse is stressed clearly. And one can not ever presume that an enemy of my enemy is my friend.

I have learned & received in my own prayer times ... that everyone is a mirror of ourselves & especially so when we are closely related in the same circles of life ... so these so called 'feelings' & 'emotions' have to be dealt with to be able to continue on in the freedom in Christ.

Exactly CL. Here's a poem that says exactly that:


Mirroring Poem by Mark Roske

Introduction

If there is one fragment of my being that I haven't accepted or forgiven,
I will find that fragment in you.
You will mirror, precisely, that part of me that needs my love and attention the most.
"Love each other as I have Loved thee".
In loving all parts of you No Matter What, I am whole and healed.
In loving all parts of me, I see nothing in you but
the purity and innocence that I am, that WE are.

"Mirroring"

I cannot be better than you,
you cannot be worse than me...
ego dies and we are free.

Beautiful child,Perfect Being,
Let me share what I am seeing.

Mirroring Spirit's sacred song,
above the field of right and wrong.
inseparable, our hearts as one,
sharing breath and sacred Sun.

The choice is ours, transcend perception,
Owning you as my reflection.

Layers of pale perception pealed,
a view of a "you" and a "me" is healed.

Spinning cells are merged in motion,
droplets in the same vast ocean.

Barriers broken, borders gone,
our simple souls sing one grand song.

Symphonic triumph, our notes get clearer,
Honoring you as my own mirror.

Alav HaShalom ...

I'm baaak. Vaughn I understand your comment too. Sometimes confusion arises when it comes to permitting yourself to feel and embracing the things you are feeling. Anything that is not faced cannot be dealt with. The is my response to feelings of hatred, if someone denies feelings of hatred, they will never be able to overcome the position. This is not to say that hatred should be embraced. Instead, hatred should be identified for what it is and proper measures should be taken in order to eliminate it. For me, it is never ok, to just simply permit emotions of hatred and be quiet. Research has been documented from various souces that prove there is a correlation between those filled with hatred and different types of disease. One in particular is mental illness. They say hatred has been known to alter the thinking process and to show abnormal changes in brain structure.

Rosa ... thanks for getting back here ... YOUR comment is exactly what has been needed! Hatred must never be directed in action toward anyone. Like you said the thoughts & emotion of such hatred are definitely absorbed in our 'being' ... & can cause tremendous ailments.

Christ is the only answer in & through that kind of hatred. Without the cleansing power of the blood of Christ in our lives ... we are doomed. The Holy Spirit also helps keep us 'separated' from the things of the world if we pay attention to the leadings & gifts that help cleanse our minds & hearts continually ....

Rosa and CL; so true what you say. We should also remember that all emotions are triggered by our belief systems, attitudes and mindsets, as we choose to accept these.

So in many instances, like with hatred, the source of the rot must be found, isolated and treated. There is always a reason for hatred and if that reason or the reasons can be found then, with prayer/meditation and counseling, the source can be cured. Then the person will not automatically respond with hatred, which has been an automatic response to the "rot" within, which has been curtailed, nipped in the bud, and healed.

Va;ulghn, I agree. I also believe that if people would stop teaching hatred to their children for just one generation, the whole thing would be wiped out...the ball of hatred is not bouncing automatically as you just pointed out.

CL and Rosa, what I did not have time and presence of mind to put down as a comment I will try to now. If you look closely at the photo you will see printed on the shirt as HATE in the mirrow image is LOVE. God commands us to love those who hate us. And often the best we can do is to work at it. I think hate is a manisfestation of the evil one. I do think we "hate" at times due to lack of understanding and knowledge in many cases when there is no valid reason to even harbor strong dislike for the person or their acts and in both instances we are wrong and outside the instructions God gives us. I don't know of even a place that tells us to hate acts God hates or considers to be an abomination-He simply tells us to not commit those acts and to confront our Christian brothers who do in the attempt to bring them out of disobedience. God is perfectly capable of handling those things on His own. It is a very difficult thing not to hate someone who commits really heinous atrocities like Hitler and child abusers etc but here again Jesus died for the sins of those the same as he did for mine. Not hating is hard and it requires supernatural strength not too-the Holy Spirit indwells redeemed humans for just that and other things that we find difficult.

Rosa, my take on evil is that like dark is absence of light, evil is the absence of good and good is of God. I may be completely wrong but I don't think so.

And I definitely think that to harbor hatred, bitterness or resentment and other negative emotions is very harmful to our bodies. God did not create us to house those.

Thank you Alice for returning & commenting :) Your comment is excellent & well spoken ... Hatred is evil in any personification to the spirit, the soul, or the physical body ...

I understand your point Alice. I agree with your definition. Guess I was trained to do self-examinations and to respond from an introspective position and also to realize that growth involves degrees of process. Meaning we are not all on the same level, although many of us strive for the same things, in order to move from where we are we must take steps. Until a person realizes where they are they will never get where they are trying to go, so to speak. For example, the person who uses profanity and someone calls it to their attention. The profane person responds by saying"I didn't say a damn cuss word". That person is in denial. There are some folk who say the right things at the right time, believe they love God, and are full of unGodly hatred that they feel is right and it is diametrically opposed to the Word of God. What then, do we do as those who have transcended that stage, ignore their captivity, point it out tactfully, or just simply join them? To take the position to not point it out tactfully and prayerfully, would be the same as helping folk remain in captivity.

This is very thought provoking..Maybe i should print this and read it everyday until I get past a few thyings.

Glad you stopped by Betty & thank you for adding your comment. Getting 'past' things of this nature ... is by the grace of God provided.

I've come a long ways in resolving what almost consumed me.

Very thin line between these - some even read the space in between - even though there is nothing there - its all human and puts to rest the wranglings of all especially those dealing in surrealism. Still is thought provoking :-)

Thanks for submitting to The Surreal Circus http://surreal-circus.gather.com

Opinions are great Bernard ... but experience is the teacher ... we don't know till we know & sometimes we don't know that we don't know.

We are all humanly biased in our own opinions ...

Maybe (?) Bernard has gotten as close of any to what I will recommend (?) ... You all probably know by now that I have "strange ways" of "looking" at such things ... my ways are due to life experiences and I recommend highly that folks attempt to understand the intricacies involved.

Let me suggest first off, that most people think dualistically (+/-) ... in terms of opposites that are almost "polarized" ... most likely because differentiation is more recognizable the greater the "distance" between considerations ... religion cautions that one is never to "fence sit", to never be just luke-warm, to instead be "as far" towards "the good" (hot for) as one can get ... to be even extreme about it, so goes the common view. After all, is not God the "greatest good", the "most light" ... as "opposed to" the most cold darkness, the promised death that only "A Satan" (or Devil) would "trick" us into if we were not careful and not always seeking ONLY the Greatest Good. ??? Love and Eternal Life in Light (+) ON ONE SIDE, OR, (-) Darkness, Eternal Death, Hatred ON THE OTHER SIDE ...TWO OPPOSING ENDS OF A LINEAR SCALE. Lord VERSUS Satan, (+/-)


It is my own view that such DUALISMS CREATE THE DICHOTOMIES OF CONFLICT ! LIKE BEGETS LIKE !

LOVE BEGETS LOVE and HATRED BEGETS HATRED ... but, Hatred is NOT the opposite of Love ... FEAR is the OPPOSITE of LOVE ... and Fear begets Hatred, as well as Hatred begets Fear.


I contend that it is the view of the self, the isolated ego, that dominates human thinking for most people here on earth ... the ego view being the "normal" view. The ego view being primarily rational, logical, and objective, ruled by the five physical senses which define "reality" for the most part. The view of "me" and "other(s)" ... each separated by a combination of time and space. This, in being the "orthodox" view, is "exoteric", is dualistic and has neither understanding of, nor any use for, the esoteric view which is THE SPIRITUAL VIEW THAT TRANSCENDS the "normal view" ...

The Transcendent Spiritual View is the Subjective View of the Emotion of Love ... the Highest Truth available to mankind ... the Experience of The Spirit of GOD (not God nor gods). The BET (+=-) which is THE TRINITY ... THAT WHICH TRANSCENDS DUALITY !!!


With Trinity (+=-) understanding, the truest understanding coming from actual personal experience of having MET the Spirit of GOD withIN one's own self ... one then knows of UNconditional Love.

Through UNconditional Love, one no longer seeks the extremes of a polarized good at the very end of a linear scale such as would be done in "normal dualism" ... NO ... one seeks a BALANCE, the (=) IN-BE-TWEEN the POTENTIALS OF (+) AND (-). (The CENTER OF said scale)


GOD (not God nor gods) IS ONLY (+) WHEN CONSIDERED FROM A DUALISTIC PERSPECTIVE. Such a perspective actually requiring A (-) SATAN for FULL BALANCE ... (+/-)

BUT ... it is God (or a god) that balances out a dualistic view needing a Satan ... GOD HAS NO SUCH ADVERSARY ! GOD is an (=) ... (=) is UNconditional Love ! UNconditional Love (=) has NO favorites, is NON-judgmental ! Such an (=) RESIDES right in the very center, the middle of all duality, making Duality a Trinity ... (+/-)<(+=-)



Bottom line, UNconditional Love has "no strings" such as "I will love you IF you love me" ... UNconditional Love ALLOWS relationship WITH the "evil" that is right next to yourself IN THE VERY BALANCE OF ALL CHOICE FOR GOOD OR BAD, that place in the central GREY AREA where you still have the ability of CONNECTING WITH the "relatively" bad SO AS TO INFLUENCE IT FOR THE BETTER WITHOUT MAKING AN ENEMY OF IT ... THERE you can relate without the conflict that divides into insurmountable divisions involved with dualistic polarizations. THERE you can LOVE IT because it is not yet so different from yourself that you need to FEAR it or it needing to FEAR you ...

The higher Self which is transcendent to the lower self of ego, is the Soul of you ... the Spiritual connection to GOD that LOVES and never Fears ... it knows itself to be the Self that holds the Truth That Sets the self Free ... Free to Love UNconditionally withOUT Fear nor Hatreds.

IMnsHO and E.

Jerry, thank you for your contributions in this comment thread ... as much as I can agree on many 'points you have thoughtfully added ... I must add that none of us are at the same point in our evolution of Life. And I believe that is also why we are here on planet earth for right now.

Hence, we 'see thru the glass darkly' ... if I can add a unattached partial verse to this comment. But I know we can peacefully come together & use the Biblical guidelines & scriptures to help each other & hopefully draw & glean more of what we individually may need.

Amen.

Basically, that is also what I was saying CL, that "beyond" the exoteric dualism lies the esoteric Trinity Understanding, something that often changes the old view by 180 degrees ... if no one ever reminds us of that truth we might never discover it. The words of the Bible thus have at least two meanings, as did the parables spoke of through Jesus, the "milk" for the most who had as yet not "evolved" enough to understand the "meat" which only the few who had the eyes to see and the ears to hear could "digest" ... :-)

THAT I even understand Jerry ... sometimes I get lost in all your 'language' of what you are saying. Thank you for breaking it down a little more for me ... :)

I am not a bible scholar nor a teacher ... I live straight out of my heart with The Holy Spirit & stay pretty simple at that. I love the 'mountain top' experiences - but know that the 'valley' is where the work of faith is lived.

CL, I think that we are both working in our own way to help others better understand that which we have each experienced, nothing more can be asked of us than such honesty. :-)

THAT, my friend ... is the total essence of it all ... thank you .... we all speak & learn differently - but it does not mean that either are wrong.

Love and Hate - I think our understanding and therefore our view on this subject changes as we go through life.
My idea of love is so different now. I can see expressions of love now to which I would have been blind, maybe even scoffed at, years ago. As we go through life we learn and evolve through hurt and disappointment and emotional pain.

Hate - well, I always thought I wasn't a hater, but when it comes to protecting my child I suddenly found I could hate deeply. An overpowering urge to kill and destroy.
Then one day you learn to see the bigger picture. You can step back and evaluate reality.
I think hate comes from ignorance and our own screwy perceptions.
Once we learn to get past that, it's all good - and this too shall pass.

Well stated Rose ... thanks for adding a personal dimension to such BIG beliefs that affect us all one way or another ...

"...I think hate comes from ignorance and our own screwy perceptions.
Once we learn to get past that, it's all good - and this too shall pass...."

Quite right Rose. From childhood we view life totally subjectively; I love, I hate, I feel, I want, I like, etc., etc.; which is totally normal. As one grows older and wiser one observes life more objectively, and the truth starts breaking through to one's mind and heart.

VERY timely topic. Now featured at Examining Our Religion.

Thank you Ann for viewing & commenting & for Featuring it at Examining Our Religion!

This harkens back to something that that Dennis brought back to my memory and others echoed as well. One is to hate sin with a passion whether your sin or mine.

Yes, Sin is sin & in God's reality all sin is equally the same ...

Thank you for viewing & commenting Jedan ...

A thought. We should also remember that Jesus life, death, suffering, rising after 3 days, and ascension to heaven is what saves us from sin and promises our redemption. We could spend a lot of time hating sin and avoiding sin and sinners that we might forget that Jesus has destroyed the power of sin in our lives.

Just a thought - use it, don't use it.... but be blessed right now.

Good thoughts there Vaughan ... thanks :)

Found this by looking up Gather on swagbucks,