MARRIAGE ~ The UPS ~ The downs ~ The HIGHS ~ The lows ~ and D I V O R C E

Marriage is a very good thing when done right and a very bad thing when done wrong.

Marriage is good for men in general and bad for women in general.

Divorce is one of the best things ever to happen to marriage in the U.S. Without divorce, there would be far more suffering, injury, and death.

The need for divorce is a very bad thing to be avoided whenever possible.

It's easier to prevent a bad marriage that to fix it. It's better to end a bad marriage than stay together despite the pain.

We have not figured out yet how to do marriages correctly in the modern world. It will take several generations at least.

When considering whether to marry remember that it isn't the good things about the prospective spouse that keep a marriage together, it's the bad things about them that break it up. Therefore look for flaws and don't date anyone who has flaws. You don't want to risk falling in love with someone who has flaws that you can spot before marriage. Plenty of flaws will become apparent after marriage in any event but you should not notice them. :-)

LOL Where are you gonna find someone without flaws?

I think this must be an off-shoot to the adage that Love is Blind? For everyone has flaws, but sometimes one is so smitten that they do not see them at first.

However, one would argue that not seeing the flaws until marriage would be dangerous. Once you are married and the flaws become apparent then what happens? Are you out of love? Deal with them? Disenchanted? That's not much of a way to go through marriage IMO.

Phil,

Everyone has flaws. But what may be a flaw for me may not be a flaw for you. Also, if the flaws are so blatant and so numerous that they can be spotted before the wedding when the prospective spouse is on his or her best behavior, then there must be lots more lurking...

The idea, Jennifer, is to spot the flaws before being smitten. It's dangerous otherwise. Love is blind.

I have to say that I like a lot of what you had to say Larry. Now when it comes to flaws, I agree with what you said about that too -- and trust me, I'm smiling about it, because I really thought this way strongly at one time...

"Therefore look for flaws and don't date anyone who has flaws."
~ Larry M.

I also agree with what Phill and Jennifer had to say about the flaws ~ Everyone has them, and where are you going to find someone who doesn't. But as you pointed out Larry, the idea is to spot the flaws before being smitten. It's dangerous otherwise ~ Now I'm cracking up, because that is true and not funny when you think of the consequences of denying the flaws. If they are blatant -- like a CONTROL MANIAC, or a person who can't seem to control their temper, or someone who can't seem to keep their underwear on (male or female)...there are some real serious issues lurking behind those flaws. [I think you said the same thing Larry].

In general, I really agree with all that Larry had to share.

And Phil looks so cool up there with his comment box.

And Jennifer ~ About what you've shared...

"Once you are married and the flaws become apparent then what happens? Are you out of love? Deal with them? Disenchanted? That's not much of a way to go through marriage IMO." ~ Jennifer Neff

Good questions. I think that most people just become disenchanted, unhappy, frustrated, disillusioned, and basically, the marriage begins to start a roller~coaster ride -- It is either deal with the flaws in a mature and effective way -- communication, therapy, counseling, or the crash and burn of divorce occurs. Sometimes you'll have the spouse that RUNS, because that is the only way they have learned to deal with issues -- the flight or fight response you see.

This is a good discussion!

The man that created eHarmony.com wrote a few good books on picking the best spouse for a person. I had to study his philosophies for a class in while earning my BS Psychology degree. The process of choosing a mate was very scientific and logical. The main message I got out of it was to know thyself and know the top 10 traits or characteristics of a person that you CANNOT live with. If the prospect has ANY of these, DO NOT MARRY them under any circumstances because once the 'in love' feelings fade these differences will be the highlight.

and bad for women in general.

oh, don't know about that, Larry. It's been very good for me! :)


look for flaws and don't date anyone who has flaws.

As a person who has flaws, all I can say to that is, "ouch!"

Hi Danielle ~ I bet that your study on the philosophy of the man who created eHarmony was very interesting to say the least.

I have a heavy background in Psychology as well Danielle, and I am sure that you have found your BS in Psychology to be quite helpful. It helps one in life to have a background in Psychology. I needed it for the Legal field, and almost got a double major. You have to know people -- identify the Liars, the Concealers, the mentally unbalanced...

I'll keep what you said in mind, because I believe it to be true about what you found out in your study...

"The main message I got out of it was to know thyself and know the top 10 traits or characteristics of a person that you CANNOT live with. If the prospect has ANY of these, DO NOT MARRY them under any circumstances because once the 'in love' feelings fade these differences will be the highlight." ~ Danielle P.

FOR SURE. I'd like to hear what others think of the findings of your study.

I will definitely be back to weigh in on this topic! Great start for the group, Rene.

Well I hope you do come back to weigh in Renda, because everybody is really adding in some very good feedback on this topic of MARRIAGE. I'm still reading...

Are you married? If so, are you happy?

Yes and yes. :)

For those of you who are married, how is that working for you?

Wonderfully. Ten years this year.

What are your feelings about marriage?

Marriage is something that needs to be done when it feels right for you and your prospective partner. No one can place a time limit on this, not even you. You'll know when it's tine despite what others may or may not say to the contrary.

Do you know anyone who has been married for 50 years or more?

Not that I'm aware of, no. Possibly Clint's grandparents? Not really sure, lol.

How about a couple married for 10 years or more?

Us? LOL Clint's parents and grandparents, too.

How many of your friends have divorced?

None, but in all fairness, I don't know many around here.

If you are married, should divorce be a consideration ever?

Ever is one of those words like Never and Always that really needs to be carefully used. Many (myself included) use them far too often. Of course it should be a consideration with certain circumstances. I know some religions forbid divorce, but to me that's a very dangerous situation to put someone in. There are certain circumstances that religion or not one should be allowed to divorce for.

How many of you are divorced? Or considering divorce?

Neither and neither here.

How many of you have been married more than once?

Not me, LOL.

Tell us what do think of the institution of MARRIAGE?

I think it's a natural phase for most to take once they feel they have found the person they want to spend their life with. Some are happy being common law couples while others want to make it official. Either way, it's the decision to commit to one another that is the most important element, is it not?

Hey Jen ~ Thanks for responding and adding to this discussion. It is GOOD to know that somebody out there is HAPPY in their marriage! If I had some gold bars, I'd give you one for each year of your marriage.

I love what you had to say in answer to what do you think of the institution of MARRIAGE? ~ A beautiful response.

I see quite a few on here that are happy in their marriages. I'd say I'm in good company.

Woot Gold Bars. VIRTUAL gold bars better yet lol! :)

Oh good Jen, I'll have to keep going through these comments to find the happily married people ~ maybe my mind is just jaded from hearing so many cases of divorce ~

Yeah ~ GOLD BARS! I'll have to find some virtual ones ~ only have a treasure box of gold coins here on Gather ~ LOL!

Yeah, it gets better as you go on. :)

And hey, and coins are pretty snazzy too lol!

My parents have been married for over 50 years and are still going pretty strong. I just wish I could get Mom off those horrible addictive artificial sweeteners though. I'd like to see a total separation of state and marriage where it would become more like a contract, with churches and other groups more involved. I remember a couple where I used to work, and I think the Catholics have an initiative where they make sure the couples are really serious about getting married. That seems like a good idea. It definitely makes for a more stable household and it shouldn't be entered into lightly, it should be for life. Thanks for creating this and it should be a most interesting discussion!

Hey there Visionaerie ~ I'm glad to see you in here adding MUCH KNOWLEDGE to this discussion on the topic of marriage.

Those addictive artificial sweeteners are something that most people do not think about -- however, I agree with you that they are addictive, and I don't use them, but the people that I know that do seem to not be able to use real sugar at all for some reason. And they have a fit if they can't get those artificial colored packets.

Your comments were very interesting, and they made me think a bit. Marriage is a contract - and a VOW for life. Churches are involved in marriages -- that is of course if one belongs to a church and remains active. And the churches that I know do make sure that the couples have counseling before marriage and a clear understanding of the Biblical truths involving the covenant relationship of marriage. Those couples that are not ready, nor serious about marriage -- as the vow should not be taken lightly -- are not married by the Pastor, and told the reasons why. In many cases it is a lack of maturity on the part of one or both, and the obvious -- unequally yoked.

I'm glad to hear that your parents are still married, and that they have been for over 50 years -- and going pretty strong too! -- WOW! Now that is something to be admired, because we don't hear nor SEE this often.

Marriage involves a soul tie that is not easily broken. Unfortunately many do not have an understanding of what that is all about. And many have created soul ties with casual sex and have no idea of the damage they have done to themselves the those they have slept with. Then they wonder why their marriages don't work.

I think that there should be marriage preparation classes in High School. There is also a strong need for young people to have a spiritual understanding of sexual unions -- and what that means.

If you could SEE the result of multiple sexual partners in the spirit realm, it would make you SICK. I'll never forget that sight when God showed it to me. It totally flipped my entire view of casual sexual relationships.

Thank you Visionaerie for your thoughts. I'm glad you enjoy this discussion. It was at the request of many Gatherites actually. This Gather Group is a result of many conversations of what Gather Members would like to experience and talk about on Gather by way of Groups and Discussions. I think it is a good idea too! I'm loving having all our Gather Friends in one spot to talk and discuss issues together.

HUGS & LOVE,
Rene

I have so many thoughts on marriage I barely know where to begin so I will start with an end which is divorce. I have been divorced and to say it changed my life would be putting it mildly. My divorce not only greatly affected my own life but the lives of my children, my extended family, my 2nd husband and his entire family. My ex was extremely vengeful and when we parted ways he vowed to make the rest of my live miserable. He did his best but although I regret all the drama, grief and pain he caused I am still glad I divorced him. Would I ever get a divorce again? Yes if the situation called for it. Have I considered it with my current marriage? Again that is a yes. My husband and I have been through hell and back and somehow survived. We are not madly in love and those who know us wonder if we will one day kill each other. We are competitive, stubborn and opinionated and those three factors may well be the reason we remain married. When my ex tried to destroy us we dug our heels in and refused to give him the satisfaction of watching us crumble. Behind closed doors we did crumble but thankfully not at the same time. We took turns falling apart and that is the key to a good marriage. Not the falling apart but the taking turns. Marriage is a partnership but not a balanced one. Some days the balance swings in his favor and others in mine. If I fall and he believes I can get up he will cautiously watch and only aid me when he needs to. This has made me stronger and more confident in my abilities. Compromising is an important part of any relationship and in particular I don't think a marriage can last without it. If my husband and I find we can not compromise on an important issue we avoid it until one or both of us are willing to bend a bit. I think when people enter marriage believing in a fairy tale life they are quickly disappointed. The greatest thing about marriage is knowing you have a partner who has to deal with the same stuff you do. It means never having to go it alone but it does not mean a person will never be lonely. It is something that needs to continue to grow and change as the needs of the couple change. This is going to sound odd but if someone asked what the most important part of marriage is most would say love but I disagree. I do love my husband and I know he loves me but there are times when we really dislike each other. Whatever we are doing is working for us since in two weeks we will celebrate our 23rd Anniversary.

Happy Anniversary!!! I'm so glad you are still together.

Hi Linda and Danielle ~ I'm glad you two are in here.

Linda, I am so glad to see you and see your response in this discussion, I don't know what to do. It has been a long time! I had been away for a long time, but I was missing you before that.

Your input will take a few comment boxes, because I really want to talk about what you've shared. Let's take this part first...

"I have so many thoughts on marriage I barely know where to begin so I will start with an end which is divorce. I have been divorced and to say it changed my life would be putting it mildly. My divorce not only greatly affected my own life but the lives of my children, my extended family, my 2nd husband and his entire family. My ex was extremely vengeful and when we parted ways he vowed to make the rest of my live miserable. He did his best but although I regret all the drama, grief and pain he caused I am still glad I divorced him." ~ Linda T.

On the matter of divorce -- Linda, aside from the drama that happened at the time you divorced your 1st husband, is there any lingering drama today from your divorce from your 1st husband?

The reason why I ask this question is because I have friends who have been divorced twice, and usually that is a continuing issue with either the 1st or 2nd divorce.

I'd like to hear from others too here in this discussion group about divorce and the effects from it -- long range effects.

I'm going to the next comment box to continue to make it easier for you to come back and respond...

In an attempt to keep things fairly brief my ex husband used two of my three children to try to destroy my current husband and I. He bribed my daughters into claiming they were physically abused by me and sexually abused by my husband. The girls adored him and would do anything to be with him. He manipulated them and messed with their minds so much that even now 12 years later there are lasting effects. He had assumed he would make these claims and off my husband would go to jail. If I had any doubts that might have happened or I may have left him. I knew he was innocent as was I of any physical abuse. We spent every cent we had and had to rely on my inlaws to provide housing for us just so we could fight these charges. The end result was everything was dropped but by then my ex had custody of my daughters. As soon as he was granted custody he placed them both in fostercare. Fast forward to the present time. Both daughters have one child each. Both have sons and both have little or no contact with their dad but have a relationship with me. Both daughters suffer from personality disorders which has led to them not being able to care for their children properly and I have had to step in. So I guess the effects of the first divorce are still trickling down and being felt even after 25 years.

I'm so glad you came back Linda ~ You have a Life-Time Movie with regard to your divorce from your children's father. This is what I was really wondering about...

"the effects of the first divorce are still trickling down and being felt even after 25 years." ~ Linda T.

It so tragic that their lives were effected in such a negative way. I believe that people always pay (one way or another) when they do wrong to others.

Where is he now? And do you have any contact at all with him? Have you forgiven him?

My ex lives in the same city I do...mere blocks from my parents. My contact with him is minimal but when we see each he is always very friendly. I wanted to move on past all the hurt and did forgive him. I refuse to let him rent space in my head. He still plays games with our children but it is no longer my concern. They are all old enough to deal with him on their own. If he does any game playing with my grandchildren I won't tolerate it. He barely sees our oldest grandson and has never met the younger one.

oh my goodness Linda ~ that is really close. At least he is friendly when you see him. I'm so glad you forgave him, no need for you to carry the burden of his wrongs. I like what you've said, "I refuse to let him rent space in my head."...

BRAVO to that!

He still has a way to go in terms of maturity if he plays games with your children (who are now grown). And, you're right that they can make their own decisions about how to deal with him. That is good mothering.

There is nothing worse than a mother who tries to control everything you do when you're good and grown -- and that is a whole nother topic of discussion.

That is a shame that he barely sees your oldest grandson and has never met the younger one -- sad really.

But you sound very STRONG.

HUGS Linda ~
Your Friend,
Rene

Are you married? If so, are you happy?

Extremely married, and extremely happy. 5 years on September 6th.

If you are not married, do you want to get married? If so, WHY?

When Hubby and I met, neither one of us were looking for marriage. Fortunately we found eachother, and changed our minds. I had never been married, and after his 3rd divorce, he thought marriage was only for dumb schmucks. LOL Not sure who convinced who to go through with it, but either way, it worked out great!

For those of you who are married, how is that working for you?

Working out great! We have our challenges, but we work on them togather.

For those of you who are NOT married, how is that working for you?

I was very happy during my single years. Fortunately for me, I became ready for marriage naturally. when I was single, I was N O T lookin. My mother always told me that the best way to find the right one is "by accident." She, my sister and I, all found our husbands by accident.

What are your feelings about marriage?

Marriage needs to be approached by two people with great self esteem, but humble and controlled egos. The couple must love themselves as individuals, before they attempt to love eachother. Marriage is an equal partnership, and traditions need to be changed to reflect our liberated and free society. Archaic traditions such as the bride obeying, taking the husband's last name, bride being given away, etc. are holdovers from a time when women were pieces of property, to be handed from one family to the other. Don't even get me started on the word "Mrs!" My feeling is that the reason why these traditions have lasted for so long is because very few people have stepped back to analyze them, and their origins. Marriage can be an equal partnership, as long as it's treated as such. With equality coms MUTUAL respect

Do you know anyone who has been married for 50 years or more?

When my Grandpa died at age 92 in Jan of 2012, he and Grandma had been married 65 and a half years. My maternal grandparents were married 63 years. My Great-Great Aunt & Uncle were married 71 years.

How about a couple married for 10 years or more?

Mom & Dad 22 and a half years before their divorce.
My husband to his 2nd and 3rd wives both for 14 years, divorced.
Dad & Step-mom almost 17 years, going strong.
Mom & Step-dad almost 16 years and going strong.
Sister and bro-in-law almost 15 years and going strong.
All of my married Aunts and Uncles have been married atleast 10 years.

How many of your friends have divorced?

Hubby 3 times, 3 of my BFF's twice, one BFF once, but they're still great friends. Hubby and I are still good friends of his #2.

If you are married, should divorce be a consideration ever?

Our deal-breakers are abuse, infidelity, crimminal behaviour. Other challenges we've managed to work out.

How many of you are divorced? Or considering divorce?

NO WAY!!!

How many of you have been married more than once?

I'm going to let Hubby answer that one. LOL I'm a 1st-timer.

Tell us what do think of the institution of MARRIAGE?

Happy, equal, loving, and respectful marriages are wonderful, all others belong in an institution. :) Also, marriage should be between two consenting adults who love eachother. their gender shouldn't matter.

Now Leah, I am glad to hear that you have such a HAPPY and SUCCESSFUL story about MARRIAGE, and so many other stories of long-term (over 50 year marriages) that you can refer to. W o W!

I love everything that you have shared in this discussion, and the advice that you have given.

This part of what you said could stand to have a discussion all its own...

"Marriage needs to be approached by two people with great self esteem, but humble and controlled egos. The couple must love themselves as individuals, before they attempt to love eachother. Marriage is an equal partnership, and traditions need to be changed to reflect our liberated and free society. Archaic traditions such as the bride obeying, taking the husband's last name, bride being given away, etc. are holdovers from a time when women were pieces of property, to be handed from one family to the other. Don't even get me started on the word "Mrs!" My feeling is that the reason why these traditions have lasted for so long is because very few people have stepped back to analyze them, and their origins. Marriage can be an equal partnership, as long as it's treated as such. With equality coms MUTUAL respect " ~ Leah Christensen

I'd like to hear what others have to say about what you've shared ~ EXCELLENT response!

Please copy that paragraph, if you wish, and start a new discussion. I bet it would get you a ton of points, and make for a wonderful discussion. I agree. It's a discussion that can stand on it's own. I can't wait to see other's responses.

Hey Leah ~ You do it, and post it in here ~ Start up a good discussion for us all. That is what this new Gather Group is all about. Everybody in here can start up discussions!

Love Ya ~
Rene

I am married. I've been married more than 10 years and we have a son together. Not divorced though I've brought it up a time or two. It seems that we have NOTHING in common anymore. Most of the time we just stay on separate ends of the house....he in the living room watching tv shows I don't like and me in my bedroom online or playing with the baby.

When did you notice yourselves starting to drift? Hubby has a few shows that I absolutely hate, and we live in a tiny apartment. Since I enjoy going out for a cup of coffee up the street regularly, I go when he wants to see those shows! (4:00-7:00 weekday afternoons). Not a problem, since we spend the other 21 hours of the day TOGETHER! I was going to that cafe on my own long before he came up here, so it's not a problem.

As for things in common, we have a ton of similar interests that we nurture. Check out some of our albums, of some of the trips that we've taken in the past. We go to all kinds of cultural festivals together, travel around Canada, and just do whatever strikes us as interesting.

Hi Winona and Leah ~ I'm going to respond to Winona in this comment box, and Leah in the next one...

Winona ~ Have you thought about counseling? You've been married from more than 10 years, and you have a son together -- may a vacation alone -- just the two of you would help ease the tension.

Also, the online activity in marriages is another discussion that we all need to have here in this Group. I would like to know how many couples are having a problem in this area?

I'll be back to here your reponse Winona...

Leah ~ You gave Winona such good advice. Others can taken pointers from what you've shared!

Thank you Rene. Your advice was great too. May I add that TV and computers should be left behind for the vacation? ;)

It saddens me when challenged marriages also involve kids. I hope it all eventually works out.

Sorry....this turned into a very long and ranty comment:

(You'll notice a lot of the following VERY long comment is about televison and movies. That is because pretty much all hubby ever does is watch tv and movies. His idea of goign to DO something is to go see a movie. He's very much a videophile, his whole life revolves around watching something, so mine does also by association)

--

Travel is really not an option for us, not because of our son but because we're broke. Between the 2 of us we make EXACTLY the amount it takes to pay the bills, with nothing left over. We both also only have part time jobs with NO vacation time.

We do share common interests in things like science museums and visiting aquariums and zoos. None of which we have around here, and even if we did we don't have the extra funds to pay for tickets.

When we DO get to go on vacation HE picks not only where we are going but WHEN we are going and what we'll do while we are there. His idea of a vacation is to go to a theme park where I end up literally RUNNING after him (he's taller than me and walks faster) trying to keep up, and not having any fun. If we go to a museum he will spend 30 minutes at one exhibit taking 400 photographs from different angles. I could walk ahead of him, but I hav social anxiety and can have a panic attack if I'm not with someone I KNOW in a strange setting.

(I leave the laptop at home when we go on vacation, but every hotel room comes with a television set that he will turn on the second we walk in the door)

When we met it seemed we liked the same kind of movies, and music. Then sometime around 2002 he quit wanting to see ANYTHING I wanted to see. I used to go to the movies with him just to be with him, but eventually stopped when I realized that no matter how many time I went to see a movie I would HATE with him, he was not going to go see one I liked in return. (He likes romance movies, romantic comedy's, comic book movies and political thrillers. I want to see action movies WITHOUT superheros in them and I LOVE horror and slasher films and he wont see them in theaters OR watch them at home with me. His excuse is that they "are not scary.")

After the television series Angel went off the air I couldn't get him to watch anything else with me until The Walking Dead started coming on. Well, last season he did start watching Eureka finally, but I'd been trying to talk him into watching it for years (since it first came on) and he never would. I also couldn't get him to watch House, or Psyche, or CSI or antying else I watched.

I've tried to get into some of his shows (Once Upon a Time, Hawaii 5-0, How I met Your Mother, The New Girl, just to name a recent handful) but after a week or two I just cant stand to sit there watching something I hate anymore.

But at least I TRY to watch his. He never even sat through one episode of mine, and I eventually gave up trying to watch anything at all, because he watches SO MANY shows that one of his always ends up coming on at the same date and time as mine, and he always gets to watch his. He doesn't have one or two shows, he has DOZENS, and if he can't watch them he records them and watches them later. That means he's usually watching one thing and recording another and has BOTH of the TV's being used, and if I ask him to not record something so I can watch something he goes ape over it, so I just quit watching tv.

Since he started watching Eureka last season, but has not seen any of the seasons before, I suggested we watch THAT together on DVD from the beginning. He won't do it though. Right now he's watching several episodes of Deep Space 9 as well as a few episodes of 24 on dvd EVERY DAY, but wont even watch one episode of Eureka a day with me.

Yet he still complains I never want to do anything WITH him. The promblem is that his idea of "doing" something is watchign the TV seires and movies, but only the ones HE likes.

Music is another thing I thought we had in common. Part of why we started talking to start with was because of a singer called Dido.

Turns out he only knew who she was from a TELEVISION THEME SONG. In fact every single artist he listens to he only knows if they have played music on a movie or television show.

One night he mentioned a song he heard on a show and mentioned the artists name and said something about wanting to get that song and I was like, "Um...I have that CD. I've been listening to it for months. I PLAYED THAT VERY SAME SONG FOR YOU ONE DAY but you don't remember that? No, it had to come on TV for you to even acknowledge it."

I would eagerly go to counseling. He won't even talk about it. From where he sits there is nothing wrong with our marrige.

Last time I sat down and tried to talk to him about it, and how I was not happy and wanted a divorce he wouldn't acknowledge anything I said to him about how I feel about the way he acts and treats me. Instead he said that I was making MYSELF unhappy and he had nothing to do with it and so on so forth into infinity and beyond.

Since the first step to getting help is admitting there is a problem, and since he won't admit there is a problem (with anyone but myself), I don't think there will ever be any help for our marriage.

Hahah ~ Leah & Winona ~ Leah you are right about this...

"May I add that TV and computers should be left behind for the vacation? ;) " ~ Leah Christensen

My bad ~ lol ~ but I love my laptop. I can do without the TV though.

I'm falling out laughing at this Winona ~ "a videophile,..." You just invented that word if it does not already exist. I can see that the movie and tv watching that your husband does really bothers you. [I don't know if the Dissertation gave it away or not] -- I'm laughing...

but not at this Winona -- "social anxiety" -- are you kidding me Ms. Dissertation ?

Going to the next comment box, because Winona needs us...

I'm still reading your comment Winona ~ but I just wanted to say this ~ I like the kind of movies your husband likes, hate the kind of movies you like --- ahahh ~ don't slap me down because I'm in your husband's Movie Theatre ~ lol...

Still reading what you've shared ~ your are so funny!

Winona ~ It sounds like your husband is content, and he may be a television addict...and what you are relaying in essence is that you are not happy and would like for your husband to acknowledge that your marriage needs help.

This part of what you have shared touched me, and should at least make your husband take notice...

"I would eagerly go to counseling. He won't even talk about it. From where he sits there is nothing wrong with our marrige. Last time I sat down and tried to talk to him about it, and how I was not happy and wanted a divorce he wouldn't acknowledge anything I said to him about how I feel about the way he acts and treats me. Instead he said that I was making MYSELF unhappy and he had nothing to do with it and so on so forth into infinity and beyond." ~ Winona

This makes me sad to hear this. Do you think that a vacation for you by yourself would help at all?

And on this part of what you've shared...

"Since the first step to getting help is admitting there is a problem, and since he won't admit there is a problem (with anyone but myself), I don't think there will ever be any help for our marriage." ~ Winona

There is always help for your marriage. I believe you may need a third party to step in and talk with your husband, and then the both of you together. Maybe a good friend if your husband does not want to go to counseling? Have you tried that avenue?

I'm wishing the best for your marriage ~ don't give up hope...

I'll wait to hear back from you ~ and maybe other members here in this discussion may have some suggestions for you.

HUGS,
Rene

I wish I could claim videophile, but it is a real word.

lol...Online I have no anxiety. In person its a entirely different story. I've even been known to have panic attacks at work on busy days (I work a retail job...hows that for funny when attached to social anxiety. lol)

Don't worry, no smackdown on your taste in movies. lol. Everyone is free to enjoy whatever genre they want. Just, if I'm in a realtionship with you then there should be a little horror occasionally to go along with all the lovey dovey stuff. -grin-

Yeah, it would be AWESOME if hubby could see that there is SOMETHING wrong between us.

I'm so glad you came back Winona ~ I've read over the parts about your feelings on how your husband is treating you. There is an indifference when you look at it one way, and a contentment and complacency when you look at if from another angle.

On the movie differences, I just want to say that (for me), horror, violence, blood, and gore just absolutely turn me in the other direction. Movies like that seriously disturb my psyche, and my spirit. Maybe they do the same for your husband. And, I definitely don't believe that children should watch such movies. I saw the Exorcist when I was young, and it still disturbs me to this day, because I can see flashes from that movie in my mind. [I may need therapy for that ~ lol]

With regard to the anxiety Winona...you are overwhelmed with some unresolved issues. Whenever we are unable to resolve issues that are important to us, there may be feelings of anxiety, depression, anger -- it depends on the issues and on the person.

And, for the most part, financial issues will definitely bring about anxiety. And many, many people are in the financial anxiety boat

There is nothing worse (at least to me) in being in a marriage with someone who really doesn't hear you, understand you, or care to. There should always be an effort made in a relationship of any kind (and definitely in a marriage) to try to work through issues and understand one another. At least reaching an understanding -- even if that understanding acknowledges simply that a deeper communication between both husband and wife is needed, that's a start!

On what you've shared about this Winona ~ "Yeah, it would be AWESOME if hubby could see that there is SOMETHING wrong between us." ~ Winona

I kinda think that your husband would appreciate it if you would be more romantic. What are your feelings on that? I can't think of a better way to drop hints than to constantly watch romantic films, read romantic novels, and play romantic music....

Hmmmmmmm ~ Can't wait till you come back!

Are you married? Yes, in 18 days it will be 32 years...

For those of you who are married, how is that working for you? 32 years and we are still together

What are your feelings about marriage? It can be good if both people work at it.

Do you know anyone who has been married for 50 years or more? yes

How about a couple married for 10 years or more? yes

How many of your friends have divorced? not to many

If you are married, should divorce be a consideration ever? If my husband wanted a divorce, I would give it to him. If he was unhappy enough to want a divorce I would never force him into staying in the marriage. (There's the door, don't let it kick you in the behind)

How many of you are divorced? I am from my late ex.

How many of you have been married more than once? I married twice...

Tell us what do think of the institution of MARRIAGE? It is something both parties have to work at... and both have to want. My husband and I have a very strong bond. 32 years is a long time and we have gone through a lot with each other.

Hi Heather ~ Good responses you gave in this discussion on marriage. WoW -- 32 years! Good for you!

You made me laugh with this part...

"If you are married, should divorce be a consideration ever? If my husband wanted a divorce, I would give it to him. If he was unhappy enough to want a divorce I would never force him into staying in the marriage. (There's the door, don't let it kick you in the behind)" ~ Heather C.

I am cracking up at that!

Thank you for sharing your responses to the questions with us ~

Love,
Rene

HOPE YOU GIRLS CAN FIND MY 'FULL-FIGURED' RESPONSE TO THIS QUESTIONNAIRE

HUGS Phillip ~ you can add the link to it to this thread. But for everyone following ~ Phillip DeNise's responses are FEATURED here in the Group. Just go to the HOMEPAGE of Our Gather Group and look in the FEATURED section.

I don't know where you are located, but it must be already too hot and humid there...

Yes it is Crin -- how can you tell?

Are you married? Yes, 3 years.
For those of you who are married, how is that working for you? We still love each other and are happy together.
What are your feelings about marriage? I feel it is a great thing when it's right.

Do you know anyone who has been married for 50 years or more? yes

How about a couple married for 10 years or more? yes

How many of your friends have divorced? Not many, but most of the couples that we know talk badly about their spouses publicly. It's sad.

If you are married, should divorce be a consideration ever? It should but it is not to be taken lightly. Divorce hurts many people in your life.

How many of you are divorced? I have been divorced once, widowed once and am now married.

How many of you have been married more than once? This is my 3rd time.

Tell us what do think of the institution of MARRIAGE? It takes two to stay married and to stay in love. There will be highs and lows and knowing someone is standing at your side with love and support through it all makes it worth it.

Hi Danielle ~ You have been married for a short period of time, and so far ~ so GOOD! That is good to hear, because many couples fall apart right at the beginning of their marriages.

I'm also glad to hear that you have great feelings about marriage, and that you know couples who have been married for 10 years or more, and 50 years or more. That is so good to know!

This point that you made caught my attention...

How many of your friends have divorced? "Not many, but most of the couples that we know talk badly about their spouses publicly. It's sad." ~ Danielle P.

Couples talking badly about one another publicly is not good at all. Words have power and an effect on the marriage -- for sure.

And, Danielle, your answer to the following question also caught my attention, because you can speak with experience in three different areas relative to marriage...

How many of you are divorced? "I have been divorced once, widowed once and am now married." ~ Danielle P.

How did you feel about your divorce Danielle?

And, how long after you were widowed did you decide to get married again?

We have many members here in the Group in this discussion who have been married more than once. And I believe we also have members in here in the discussion who have been widowed. And, of course we have many members in here in this discussion who have been divorced. So needless to say, we have a lot of experience on this topic right here in this Gather Discussion Group.

I like what you've shared at the end of your comment about your feelings on the institution of marriage too Danielle...

Tell us what do think of the institution of MARRIAGE? "It takes two to stay married and to stay in love. There will be highs and lows and knowing someone is standing at your side with love and support through it all makes it worth it." ~ Danielle P.

WE THANK YOU for all of your input my Sister ~
Rene

Awww thank you. I was very sad about my divorce. I realized though that I was more sad over the end of the dream of being married forever than of actually missing my ex. I married 2.5 years after my 2nd husband died. Our marriage was deterioating before he died though. I had started counseling and he committd suicide. I believe there were many contributing factors to his suicide but our marriage hitting a big rough spot was what I feel pushed him over the edge. Since that tragedy in my life I have continued counseling and gone back to school to be a Christian Counselor. I am halfway through my Master's program at this time.
My current hubby, Chris and I dated in high school. We were apart 20 years and after my 2nd husband died he moved from our hometown in NY to Pa to be with me and the kids. He says he always knew I was the one and we were meant to be together. He is a wonderful husband and adores me. I am very blessed.

Danielle ~ Christian Counseling suits you well. I believe your experiences in life are perfect for just the lives you will touch ~ some knowingly, and some unknowingly.

Your story here in this discussion has "touched" me. Mainly, because it tends to make you introspective about the tragedies in life as well as the blessings. All of which is worthy of taking note of, because both serve to strengthen your life in ways unexpected.

Suicide is another topic of discussion that will be going on in this Gather Group. As one of my Gather Friends told me, it needs to be discussed because on far more than we talk about.

I personally know 4 people that committed suicide.

I'm thanking you for sharing so much with us. I'm coming back to add in another discussion on suicide if no one has done so yet.

Many Blessings to you Danielle & Thank you for answering all of the questions.

Thank you Renee for your encouragement and for opening up this discussion. It is very enlightening!! May you continue to be Blessed in your life as well!! <3

HUGS to you Danielle ~ I needed your comment. I was just looking at this Group and thinking about all my friends here in Gather and how supportive they are. You are one such Gather Friend. It makes me really glad in the heart to see everybody talking in here. And because I had been so discouraged because so many of my Gather Friends were leaving, and there were so many glitches ~ thank goodness many came back when I came back.

Your words about marriage I'm sure inspired a lot of people following along in this discussion. You will make such a good Christian Counselor. And thank you so much for your support and well wishes.

Love,
Your Friend,
Rene

Are you married? If so, are you happy? Yes I am married and most of the time I am happy.

If you are not married, do you want to get married? If so, WHY? N/A

For those of you who are married, how is that working for you? It is almost 22 years of marriage so all is going well, we have had struggles along the way but talking and working together we have made it through it all.

For those of you who are NOT married, how is that working for you? n/a

What are your feelings about marriage? I think marriage is something you do for life, but when things go bad you need to try and work things out before you give up.

Do you know anyone who has been married for 50 years or more? a few yes

How about a couple married for 10 years or more? Yes we know a few couples

How many of your friends have divorced? Not sure but a few for sure, some never really got married but moved from one person to the other and still haven't settled down.

If you are married, should divorce be a consideration ever? Yes but only as a last resort as in someone is in danger.

How many of you are divorced? Or considering divorce? We aren't


How many of you have been married more than once? only once here my dad told me to pick right the first time

Tell us what do think of the institution of MARRIAGE? I think Marriage is important for your well being as well as your walk with God, and helping populate the world

CONGRATULATIONS Pamela on 22 years of the MARRIED LIFE! WHEW~WHO!

This is good advice from your dad...
"How many of you have been married more than once? only once here my dad told me to pick right the first time"

I also loved hearing your thoughts in answer to this question...

Tell us what do think of the institution of MARRIAGE? "I think Marriage is important for your well being as well as your walk with God, and helping populate the world." ~ Pamela Marks

We appreciate your input into our discussion on the topic of MARRIAGE ~ Just lovely thoughts you have Pamela!

My paternal grandparents were married for over 50 years!

I'm happily married to a very handsome, lovable, hard working, guy and have been so for 37 years, coming up on 38 in 2 days!!!

Of course, we've had our highs and lows and in betweens, but, we've weathered every storm hit at us and our marriage is stronger for it, too!!! I could NEVER see my life without my sweet husband!!!

Marriage has been good to us and we wouldn't have it, otherwise.

Congrats and Happy Anniversary, Janie!

Thank you so very much, Sandi!!!

Oh my goodness Janie ~ What a Testimony about marriage you have ~ 38 years -- CONGRATULATIONS Sister! And HAPPY ANNIVERSARY!

Your husband sounds like a definite KEEPER ~ LOL.

HUGS & MUCH MORE LOVE for you and your husband ~
Rene

Awwww!!!! Thank you so very much, Rene!!

Yes, he is a definate keeper! LOL


((((((((((Rene))))))))

Was married for twenty years the first time. It seems so crazy now that we stayed together so long. But it makes more sense that once we were far enough apart, it was necessary.

Divorce was the best decision I ever made.

However, I am a 'relationship guy'. I am more comfortable being challenged and fulfilling purposes beyond my own needs. I was picky the second time! This time there is family, kids grandkids - just add marriage, she came with the rest. Blessings and all.

One of my better friends married his high school sweetheart, were both virgins on their wedding night. Once the kids were on their own, my friend had had enough of the craziness of his wife and divorced (I've met her, she is not only crazy, she is crazy with a twist of violence). My friend is no longer a relationship guy, other than his kids and grand kids.

He is happy, I am happy.

What makes anyone happy?

Hi d g. ~ It is so good to hear from you, and I am so glad you are in here!

Your answers were very interesting. You were married for 20 years the first time, and you think, "Divorce was the best decision I ever made." ~ d g.

Why do you feel it was the best decision for you?

I take it that you are very happy in your 2nd marriage -- right?

Your friend who had a wife who is crazy with a twist of violence really caught my attention. Why the violence? -- jealousy? -- retaliation? -- control issues? There is always something to be said for people who resort to violent measures...meaning they have their reasons ~ some make sense, and some don't. Although if a person ever feels a need to be violent they should walk away or divorce. Walking away won't be enough if you are married, and violent thought keep cropping up in your head.

Sounds like divorce for you in the 1st marriage and your friend's divorce from the crazy violent wife were needful things for the both of you since you both are now happy.

Your question for everyone...

What makes anyone happy?

I'll answer, and I'm sure others in this discussion will too ~ For me, happiness begins within your own soul. And, that happiness radiates outward and reflects back at you by way of your experiences, your relationships, and the joy that lights up your life. Being happy for me is having a deep sense of peace; doing what you love; and loving those in your life. There is nothing more satisfying than doing what you love, being with whom you love, and showing others love.

...be back to hear your responses...

1) My first wife had a secret life that did not involve me. It did involve other men, women and couples. AN then when you get a call from a sheriff the next state over telling you your wife is being sought in connection with a stalking complaint... STOP! What? Huh? After the shock of failure, and with the prodding of some very close friends, and time, life began anew.

She never even wanted to get a divorce, now did she want to reconcile. I started seeing a professional and he granted me permission to get divorced (more complicated than that, but to make it simple, having that divorce coupon from a pro made a world of difference in moving forward.

2) Very happy. She came with a full sized family and all the glam and sham that goes with that. I'm teaching a teenager to drive, building birdhouses and such with the three y.o. G-Kid, helping the oldest re-wire the new/old house this coming weekend.

3) Happiness, for me is a moment to moment existence of joy. Simple answer, but there it is:

Leave house for work = beautiful morning sky
Driving = nice people sharing the road today
Arrive at work = wonderful responses from Rene

Oops, better get working.

Have a joy filled day, dear Rene!

Oh, the friend - his ex-wife refused to take her meds. Now she's married to another volatile personality. Scary, but that's their lives, not ours.

You're not kidding SCARY d g. ~ That is like fatal attraction multiplied!

d g. ~ I'm back reading what you wrote in response to my question about why you thought that divorce was the best decision you could have made with regard to your first wife. I totally SEE Why...

"My first wife had a secret life that did not involve me. It did involve other men, women and couples. AN then when you get a call from a sheriff the next state over telling you your wife is being sought in connection with a stalking complaint... STOP! What? Huh? After the shock of failure, and with the prodding of some very close friends, and time, life began anew. She never even wanted to get a divorce, now did she want to reconcile. I started seeing a professional and he granted me permission to get divorced (more complicated than that, but to make it simple, having that divorce coupon from a pro made a world of difference in moving forward." ~ d g.

I'm so happy for you with regard to your second marriage d g.! It sounds so beautiful and loving.

You make me smile, and your honest responses in this discussion were inspirational. First, because you overcame something that many people might not be about to (with your 1st marriage); and 2, you were BLESSED with a 2nd marriage that more than made up for the 1st not so good one.

Your optimism and beautiful heart make a HUGE difference on Gather d g., and you know I'm very glad to have you as a friend ~ always have been from the beginning of our connection here on Gather.

Thank you!

P-shaw Rene, blushes!

I think God gave me a little kiss. My wife (now), on our second date, told me she had prayed to God to help her find someone to help her raise her grandkids, which she did not have as of then.

My butt did not spontaneously ignite at that moment, but my heart did!

Blessings.

Oh wow d g. ~ I'm glad you came back to share that tid-bit...to know that your wife had said a prayer before she met you even makes what you've shared about marriage even better!

I'm laughing at your last line ~ It is very special when someone ignites your "heart".

Blessings Multiplied d g. ~
Rene

BTW: My parents were married for more than fifty years. On their 50th anniversary, my older sister wanted a celebration. Mom's response: "Celebrate being married to THAT mans for fifty years? I think NOT!"

Mom did settle for celebrating her endurance for being married to 'that man' by flying the whole family to Corpus Christie for a long weekend in a hotel on the beach and a dinner at the finest sky top restaurant, all at Dad's expense!

You had a good example of marriage in your parents ~ lol...

Now this cracks me up d g. ~ On their 50th anniversary, my older sister wanted a celebration. Mom's response: "Celebrate being married to THAT mans for fifty years? I think NOT!"

I was laughing because I could visualize your mother's expression when she made that statement. I'm glad they did celebrate their 50th ~ HOW NICE!

Your dad is wonderful!

BTW d g. ~ I hope you give your Father a wonderful Father's Day gift!

Are you married? If so, are you happy?
No longer (widower Dec 19, 2011). No longer (And there were times during the marriage when one or the other of us, or both, were MOST unhappy).

If you are not married, do you want to get married? If so, WHY?
No.

For those of you who are married, how is that working for you?
In a way, I still am. Not working out all that well.

For those of you who are NOT married, how is that working for you?
Not worth a damn. Being not married after a long marriage is like becoming a mental paraplegic. It's damn near impossible to truly function.

What are your feelings about marriage?
I loved it, hated it, endured it, embraced it and now I miss it... when you're alone, life is LONELY!

Do you know anyone who has been married for 50 years or more?
My parents were - they had a marriage made of wars and love, fear and total acceptance, support and denial. Mine was a marriage a lot like theirs (except I never went three years psychotic like he did).

The Luvly Laura and I made it to 5 days short of 44 years... until MS, and all the illnesses being bedridden and spending weeks in the hospital can bring, took her. I've no doubt we'd've made 50 if she could have survived all that. Despite being idiots full of self-importance and anger early in our years together, we won through all that, and lordy we loved each other.

How about a couple married for 10 years or more?
Too many to count.

How many of your friends have divorced?
Of those I started out with, I know of three. Of more recent friends... several.

If you are married, should divorce be a consideration ever?
Sure, I can think of several reasons. Hell, it was a consideration in the first half of MY marriage more than once, and neither of us was physically or emotionally abusing the other, neither of us was being unfaithful... and neither of us had stopped loving the other. We just couldn't seem to get along or figure each other out sometimes.

How many of you are divorced? Or considering divorce?
Not. Did (see above), but didn't follow thru.

How many of you have been married more than once?
Not I (and not her, either).

Tell us what do you think of the institution of MARRIAGE?
Marriage is a Dickensian slice of life. It's the best of life. It's the worst of life. In a marriage (I'm guessing most marriages here), in America at least, people can do incredible things because of the support of the one they love. By the same token, when a marriage is having a hard row to hoe... people who actually love[d] each other know too much about each other. Marriage under those conditions can be pretty destructive.

Thought you ought to hear from my demographic.

Hi Chuck ~ I'm sorry to hear that you lost your wife. And I'm also sorry to hear you say this...

(And there were times during the marriage when one or the other of us, or both, were MOST unhappy).

You don't want to get married again Chuck?

For those of you who are married, how is that working for you?
In a way, I still am. Not working out all that well. ~ Chuck Larlham

Your soul tie is still there Chuck, and you are probably grieving still in a way. Did you seek any counseling after your wife passed? Do you have friends you can talk to about it? Even Gather Friends can help you through any feelings that you may need to discuss and work through.

Also, going to a church if you don't already belong to one can help uplift your spirit.

And your response here Chuck...

For those of you who are NOT married, how is that working for you?
Not worth a damn. Being not married after a long marriage is like becoming a mental paraplegic. It's damn near impossible to truly function.

How long were you married to your wife Chuck before she passed?

Can you explain to us how you feel like a mental paraplegic? Is it because you do not have your wife around to talk to? And, do your thoughts about her make it hard to function? Losing a loved-one (spouse) is very stressful -- and sometimes the process of grieving takes years and years. Depending upon your life circumstances and associations, it can be easier to go through the process, or harder.

You have shared so much that I think will help others.

...I'm going to the next comment box to continue, if you come back before the next box is finished Chuck, just jump right on in here...

Married 5 days short of 44 years (as I said in the response up there).

Sorry you're unhappy to see that we were very unhappy with each other at times. We were very different. I was an educated hick... she was a metropolitan sophisticate. There were times when our lack of common societal references and history became HUGE problems. We got past it, and that's the trick. You have to endure. I surely recognize there are unendurable things, and they exist on a continuum from person to person and couple to couple. And some things, like physical and emotional abuse, hyper control, constant infidelity, etc., are so unacceptable that endurance is never expected. None of those were part of our lives. But she and I endured things that we saw tear a couple of our friends' marriages apart. I felt really bad, but I wasn't living in their skins.

As far as the grieving and friends helping goes... you're right about that. Gather friends have helped me a lot. I spent three or four months writing about Th' Luvly Laura and me, and publishing here on Gather after she died. People were very kind, supportive and helpful... and the writing helped me clarify the memories I needed to hold on to.

How am I a mental paraplegic? Not having her around to talk to is part of it. But there's a dead place in my mind. We planned, decided, made life work together, at least for our last 25 years. I have to do it alone now, and instead I sit here typing to you all evening. One thing that made it all terribly worse was how long I knew it was happening. A year and a half is a long time to watch someone you love die, and my life just slowly dissolved. I think some of my "paraplegia" is that I lived 'for' her for all that time.

[first I'd like to say that it is a good thing that I copied this comment before I pressed the "Submit" button Chuck, because the following had flown into the Gather alien space ship that we have no admittance to]...

oh my goodness Chuck...I read what you just wrote above aloud to myself alone, and I'm telling you, I can truly feel the depth of what that must feel like. Half a life-time being married to someone is . . . I can't even finish the sentence, because the very thought of it overwhelms my mind.

Missing a spouse because they are apart from you can not even compare to what you are experiencing. I guess it is really this part of what you've shared that makes me pause and reflect...

"How am I a mental paraplegic? Not having her around to talk to is part of it. But there's a dead place in my mind. We planned, decided, made life work together, at least for our last 25 years. I have to do it alone now, and instead I sit here typing to you all evening. One thing that made it all terribly worse was how long I knew it was happening. A year and a half is a long time to watch someone you love die, and my life just slowly dissolved. I think some of my "paraplegia" is that I lived 'for' her for all that time." ~ Chuck Larlham

A comforting thought Chuck is that you are never alone. There is a space within you that is connected to your Source of life. And also, those who cross over and leave us are in our hearts -- and minds. There is a grieving process that is better handled when others are around you to buffer. My Grandmother grieved herself away from here, because husband died, two her children died, and she felt she could not take any more death. And getting sick did not help. One day, it suddenly hit me like ton of bricks how she must have felt -- being alone -- depending upon others to get around -- aging -- and not being happy with where she lived. And her spirit gripped a hold of me as looked at her shoes.

So when I dream of her, she is always laughing and happy. That is the way I will remember her.

It may help Chuck to put together a memory book of all the happy times you had with your wife. A Journal of sorts, a therapeutic one -- wherein you add photographs, your feelings, and any dreams or thoughts you have.

You can also make a tape recording of your thoughts and feelings, and play it back at a later time. This too is healing.

And when you look back on your Memory Journal and read it, healing begins like a river that flows forth into a new day...

I'm thankful for all that you are sharing with us, because each of us can relate to losses of loved ones in our lives. I've had many myself.

Prayerfully, I wish for you good friends, listening ears, helping hands, and the LOVE of God.

Thank you ~
Rene

Are you married? If so, are you happy? - No


If you are not married, do you want to get married? If so, WHY? - I will get remarried again soon

For those of you who are married, how is that working for you? - When I was married it was nothing but stress

For those of you who are NOT married, how is that working for you? - I'm doing the best I can to make it

What are your feelings about marriage? - Marriage will be great with the right person

Do you know anyone who has been married for 50 years or more? - No

How about a couple married for 10 years or more? - I was married for 14 years with my ex

How many of your friends have divorced? - None

If you are married, should divorce be a consideration ever? - I know my second marriage will last

How many of you are divorced? Or considering divorce? - I'm going though a divorce


How many of you have been married more than once? - I was only married once so far till my divorce is final and then I will remarry

Tell us what do you think of the institution of MARRIAGE? - Marriage has its ups and downs

I gave my ex 14 years of chances to change but he never did. I got tired of the way he was treated me. He would take things out on me when things didn't go the way he wanted. When I didn't do anything and when his anger came out he would yell at me and get me upset.

Hi Nancy ~ I'm sorry to hear that you are going through a divorce. I'm looking at your response to this...

For those of you who are married, how is that working for you? - When I was married it was nothing but stress ~ Nancy Biri

What made your marriage stressful Nancy?

And on this Nancy...

How many of you have been married more than once? - I was only married once so far till my divorce is final and then I will remarry ~ Nancy Biri

Do you already have someone in mind Nancy?

Your soon to be X sounds like he needs anger management -- also sounds like he has another woman or (a man?).

Some marriages dissolve because of infidelity.
Some due to there being a lack of "change" in one or both in the marriage.
Some due to emotional issues and/or baggage from past relationships.
Some due to too many cracks in the marriage foundation that never got fixed.
Some due to immaturity.
Some due to financial disagreements and/or strain.
Some due to the fact that the marriage was never taken seriously from the start.
Some due to a short attention span.
Some due to a strong desire to just be married, but a lack of insight on what it takes to STAY MARRIED.

Thank you for the depth of what you have shared in response to the marriage questions ~ please come back to respond further so that we all can learn from one another.

Blessings ~
Rene

My ex saw his dad beat up his mom and from then on he thought it was the right way to treat a woman. Me getting upset all the time gets kind of stressed. I was willing and tried to make the marriage work but he wasn't willing to. After we were married we found out we were 3rd cousins. I guess it wasn't meant for us to be married but we still talk at times. He's trying to be a good cousin and that's all I want out of him. I'm engaged to be married to another man. My fiance I'm engaged to knows how to treat a women and I know the second marriage will be for life. My fiance and I love each other and have respect for each other.

I'm glad to hear that your Fiance is a much better choice Nancy. There is nothing worse than being married to an abusive man ~ emotionally, verbally and/or physically -- ANY kind of ABUSE should not be tolerated ~ EVER!

That is usually the case with abusive people -- they grow up in households where it goes on, and for some reason they believe it is the normal course of things, but it isn't.

I cannot stand to see a man that does not know how to treat a woman.

I'm glad that you are divorcing him, and that you are moving on with your life.

Blessings to you Sister!
Rene

We all hate you because you are slow.

Well Werner ~ I'm sure you'll get over it.

Uh, what? LOL She's got three threads going here and moderating the group AND I imagine she probably has a life away from the PC, but I'll let her decide if she wants to mention that or not.

Personally? I'd be slower than her because of family obligations. I'd say she's doing pretty darn good.

Werner gets a kick out of jabbing at me Jen ~ I'm sure Werner is over it ~ may as well be, because we're moving right along, even if Werner may not be ~ Thanks for having my back Sister Jen ~ HUGE SMILES to you and everybody in this discussion!

Are you married? If so, are you happy? Yes, very well and healthy happy

For those of you who are married, how is that working for you?

My wife and I been married for over thirty-plus year's. Honest and communication, team work, Taking time out for each other, morals so I gather it is working out well blessed. I love my wife just as much as the first day I laid eyes on my wife and asked her to marry me and she said yes. Happiest day of my life. In the beginning our marriage had it's ups and downs but you work through them not fight through them. Every day we grow stronger together, because we the wife and I always learning something new about each other.

What are your feelings about marriage?

Marriage is a serious commitment with two people so I believe it should be well thought out before jumping the gun. Marriage is not a game. Marriage is about morals and respect, and honesty and trust, communication between a male and a female who "In Love!" with each other. I don't believe you should get married for reasons, feel something deep inside your heart and you know you love that person and spend eternity with. Marriage can work if work together that what is marriage: Team work together every day.

Do you know anyone who has been married for 50 years or more? Yes I do, God rest their souls, my wife grandparents and her Uncle and Aunt. Our marriage: my wife and I took a vow before the eyes of the Lord and we will be soon be hitting our 50 Anniversary in a few more year's. Marriage to death do you apart.

How about a couple married for 10 years or more? yes, my wife and I been married for thirty-eight year's and hitting the thirty-nine this year 2012.

I guess I am an old fashion man who believe's in the marriage vows my wife and I taken together and strongly believe keeping the marriage vows holy in the eyes of God. He is the one who leads our marriage and first. World has changed from when I first bend down on my knees and asked my wife to marry me. I don't condone divorces, but I don't believe in divorces either. In the marriage vow my wife and I said to each other: it said to death do you apart so only divorce we will do is when either my wife or I is called home to be Jesus.

Earl, I like your point of view on marriage

Well I thank you Nancy.

Earl ~ What you have shared is so beautiful to hear. I love the fact that you have been married for 30+ years! What you said here is so touching...

"My wife and I been married for over thirty-plus year's. Honest and communication, team work, Taking time out for each other, morals so I gather it is working out well blessed. I love my wife just as much as the first day I laid eyes on my wife and asked her to marry me and she said yes. Happiest day of my life. In the beginning our marriage had it's ups and downs but you work through them not fight through them. Every day we grow stronger together, because we the wife and I always learning something new about each other." ~ Earl P.

I'm coming back to add more, and I am sure that everyone in this discussion will appreciate what you've shared.

Marriage is a big step in life. Before a couple stands before the eyes of the Lord and take those Vows, understand the Vows aren't just words, sickness in health, to death do apart. My honest opinion, before divorce, find that spark in your marriage as you found in each other when they first met. It is there if search their hearts and keep marriage alive, meeting each other half way. Than again I am an old man and time has changed and I married my first love. Marriage is 50/50, not 70/30. Team work. Good topic and tremendous post. Thank you.

...I'm back Everyone ~ Earl ! ~ You've shared the best responses with regard to having a strong marriage...this in particular...

"Marriage to death do you apart." ~ Earl P.

And CONGRATULATIONS on 39 years of marriage this year Earl. I'm smiling so brightly hearing that.

And I'm praising God for what you said here...

"I guess I am an old fashion man who believe's in the marriage vows my wife and I taken together and strongly believe keeping the marriage vows holy in the eyes of God. He is the one who leads our marriage and first. World has changed from when I first bend down on my knees and asked my wife to marry me. I don't condone divorces, but I don't believe in divorces either. In the marriage vow my wife and I said to each other: it said to death do you apart so only divorce we will do is when either my wife or I is called home to be Jesus." ~ Earl P.

Earl, I so wish people would understand FULLY the depth of putting God first in marriage, and the depth of the marriage vows. You've expressed to us all what a successful marriage is based upon.

There were a few others here in this discussion that shared a lot with us about being happy in marriage, and I, for one, am so very glad to hear that, and your responses.

And your advice in the comment box above this one is EXCELLENT!

HUGS & CONTINUED HAPPINESS in your marriage Earl ~ Forever and Always ~

Thank you Rene for sharing this discussion with Living with PTSD.

You're welcome Carol! HUGS to you from all of us ~

Putting The Pieces Together ~ A Gather Discussion Group