Arizona passes most restrictive abortion law in the land!

I'd gladly give up abortion, if Arizona would let me smoke pot (just kidding)

You can smoke pot here now, the voters said so last election... for medical reasons. Not sure of all the details...

doesn't matter to me, as I don't smoke pot, but I do think that it should not be illegal

California is the state for that.

What about phantom pregnancies? Do they drive to prison?
What about ectopic pregnancies? Do they drive to prison?
What about miscarriages? Do they drive to prison?
Do you feel that all and only menopausal women are facing rapes?
What about ... FREEDOM?

What about living in another state if you're so keen on legally murdering a helpless human being??..........

Gilbert.. Lets be rational. .. There's a difference is abortion on demand and emergency abortions..

You guys tell 'em. God forbid we should be as concerned for a baby as we are for a grown woman.

Betty Stark: I suppose you mean a rape is not an emergency?
I scratched my brains to find out where is any room left for emergency, just on or during the menstruation days?

You know what? This law will end in a lot of business for Angel makers using knitting needles as decades ago and quite a bit of these emergency-refused menstruated girls will end unable to procreate anymore. So the law didn't save any life but, to the contrary, may kill several lives.

Where emergency abortion are authorized within the 12 weeks and the medical ones for any problem which could be within the 16 weeks, the abortion DECREASED by about 50% and previously aborted girls often had several abies later on.

This is a perfect law for reaching the opposite goal!

Don't worry, Berf. The helpless human being will be murdered in Iraq, Afghanistan or any other war theater. The baby will die for our flag but we shall be so proud of it.

No problem, time will show it better!

Oh give it a rest Gilbert. How many rape victim abortions are there in compairison to abortions for convenience? Where are all the cases of rape? Where are the arrests? Where are the reported rapes?

Each case is particular and should be heard. Go on, list your statistics, support them.

List as well the number of women happy to do it and list as well the number of girls which, before Rove/Wade call for help to anAngel maker and how many of them ended steril for ever.


When you wil be able to respond to them, support these statixtics other than with your own and personal feelings, then return to me instead of trying to exchange women lives against not even yet brained fetuses.

BTW every 1 out of 40,000 given light babies has a HEAVY Handicap which will penalize the family and the society during life time.

Nature would not let them alive long time but , we, as human, we decide to go against God organization itself.

Same proportion for animals but there is no interference at all. It seems that we, HB, have an extreme pleasure in issuing laws penalizing our neighbors.
A special pleasure as when they suffer, we enjoy it.

Not my philosophy, not even my God, not even my economic goal.

From my spouse:

Convenience? No woman abort per convenience, per pleasure. They do so when there is HEAVY inconvenient.

Convenience? Just because you and some others just imagine doing so for convenience.

But without even feeling it, you insult the whole society and my wife feels as insulted as when someone, while we were waiting for our 3rd one, told het that she would better take care of a dog than having babies. This person would have provided the means for abortion within the 12 months I mentioned.

My wife (and I) decided to keep the fetus. And we are happy about this nowadays and he is very successful and very loving guy.

You have no idea about how morally (and physically) painful is an abortion. You just imagine enjoying the result as you most probably never enjoyed the inception.

If done by an angel maker ... neither? Maybe one has to be just sure the knitting needle are clean enough! For sure it is quite a comfort and a pleasure to take the abortion risk...

Just a male supporting female freedom ... the life reversed.

As a male I don't even believe that abortion is a pleasure and even less a comfort or a "convenience".

But, since when I saw light, there was a woman in my bed, I cannot help ... I want them to share my own freedom!

I had to look for that, I hadn't heard. Actually, according to the news report it is "20" weeks, and follows many other states that have already done the same. Doesn't say anything about being the most restrictive? This report says it would effect very few, and medical reasons are exempt, etc. Anyway, local story here...

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/politics/state_politics/AZAbortion-Restrictions-04122012

My article says 18 weeks, but either way it gets us closer to not killing infants.

Whether it's 18 or 20 weeks ... that's a 5 month old fetus

Tiny hands and feet and legs and fingers and fingernails and toes and toenails and lips and eyes and a nose and a face ... Coming in at about 10 and half inches more or less.

One website said this about the 20 week fetus: "Your little womb-dancer also has teeth buds sprouting beneath their gum line."

Seems like 5 months is long enough to do the deed if the deed must be done. Really ... even before this time the little thing is more than a blob ... but I'll take the 18 - 20 week restriction gladly.

Arizona's government likes to experiment with extremes.

After they passed their harsh anti-immigration law, they lost a lot of tourist money in the "Boycott Arizona" campaign, and the local businesses made the politicians cool their feet on the immigration issue. I hope the same happens with this law.

I will certainly boycott Arizona-made goods and services, especially when I am in New Mexico.

Now featured at Examining Our Religion.

No we didn't lose all that much money in tourism. There were a number of people who drove here to protest SB 1070 and consequently had to spend money here. And the Unitarian universalist church is holding its 2012 General Assembly in Phoenix this summer. As far as I know the state has not lost enough tourism revenue for the governor to rethink any of the conservative bills she has signed.

I think Arizona can survive without a few people's business, as I will seek out ARizona goods, and I will go to Arizona on vacation.

Good luck with that as we had my hubby's 40th birthday at the beginning of March and trying to find hotel rooms for everyone was not easy as I said tourism has not gone down in any form I can see.

Hmmm. My info comes from talking to Arizona residents while I was in New Mexico, but I admit I took their word for granted.

Here's some documentation for you.

From the link above:

Even before Gov. Jan Brewer signed Arizona’s S.B. 1070 into law, leaders inside and outside of Arizona began to call for a national boycott of the state. One week after Gov. Brewer signed the bill, San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom instituted a moratorium on official travel to Arizona. Los Angeles followed suit only a few weeks later, as have a number of other major U.S. cities. Phil Gordon, the mayor of Phoenix, labeled the boycott’s effects as a “near economic crisis.”

Within days as well, pundits in the state had already noticed that conferences were being cancelled, with some estimates of possible lost revenue as high as $90 million. In the end, the actual figures for lost conference money were far higher. Research conducted by Arizona-based economists for the Center for American Progress found that anti-Arizona sentiment resulted in a major hit to the tourist industry, with significantly decreased wages, lodging revenue, and tourist dollars. These losses have already totaled at least $141 million, including $45 million in hotel and lodging cancellations, and $96 million in lost commercial revenue. Fewer tourists has meant that an incredible 2,761 jobs, $253 million in economic output, and $9.4 million in tax revenues have disappeared, with the potential for far worse results in the future.

Apparently, Veronica, the major loss was from cancelled business conferences and the related fallout.

Well if it were true it didn't last long hotels were booked solid this past March between spring training, PIR and the Coyotes games. And I know the UUA discussed changing the location of the 2012 General Assembly but it is all set to be held in Phoenix this June.

I don't doubt anything you say, Veronica. But Arizona is a big state with a big tourism industry, and it's hard to talk about it the whole picture without looking at statistics. I admit to doing that in my first comment, and I would have rescinded it if the statistics didn't back me up.

I'm sure statistics do back it up: I am doing my part to reverse it.

$145 million is nothing but a drop in the hat. I can't see that amount of money being significant at all - barely a teeny dent in the big scheme of things.

That fallout was a publicity stunt.

When 1070 was signed, the economy was flailing everywhere. A threatened boycott may have had very little to do with it. Fl took a way bigger hit from the BP mess, but was over pretty quickly.

ann,

harsh anti-immigration law...

ummmm - no they didnt.

they passed a law dealing with ILLEGAL immigrants. has nothing at all to do with actual legal immigration.

but if you swear you will will never go there as a boycott - i will consider living there forever.

Maybe the sudden decrease is because most of the "tourists" were illegal...............

The illegal alien law bad for tourism? Putting all the initial hype about the "boycott" and cancellations of conventions etc aside ... I'd be more inclined to think a decline in tourism would have more to do with the fact that parts of Arizona have been virtually coopted by Mexico and illegal aliens ... making some parts of the state quite dangerous to visit.

For instance:

"...Since 2009, the park has offered van tours to the springs, as long as rangers armed with rifles go along to protect the visitors. Now, ten years after Eggle’s murder, the park’s leadership has decided to open up a portion of the closed areas to the public in March, citing improved safety conditions and a big increase in Border Patrol agents in the area..."

...“There is a chance we might have to cancel the tour if there’s some sort of apprehension in progress,” Park Ranger Karl Sommerhauser, wearing a bulky dark green bulletproof vest, told the tourists last week. Sommerhauser had an ear piece curling out of his left ear. “We expect you to take direction from Ken,” he said sternly.

Ken Hires, an unflaggingly cheerful park ranger dressed in reassuringly normal-looking tan ranger clothes, bounded to the front of the room. Hires is what’s called an interpretive ranger, which means he has no law enforcement duties and does not carry a weapon. (“I spent my five years in Vietnam. Enough shooting,” he said later.)

Hires explained that some law enforcement officers would be hiding in the hills and closely watching the two-hour nature hike, while another pair of armed rangers would follow the tourists closely from the ground. “They’ll have M14s at hand,” he told the group. “Don’t be worried.”

And I remember when Gov Brewer asked Obama for help with border security ... what a joke that was at the time:

Brewer noted that she recently met with President Obama, who "promised that we would get word" on the administration's border security plan.

"Well, we finally got the message -- these signs. These signs, calling our desert an active drug and human smuggling area. These signs warning people of danger and telling them to stay away," Brewer said in the ad. "Washington says our border is as safe as it has ever been. Does this look safe to you?"

From the reference above:

If Arizona accomplished the stated goal of S.B. 1070—“attrition through enforcement,” making life so miserable for undocumented immigrants that they leave the state—it would shrink Arizona’s economy by $48.8 billion. Eliminating all of the undocumented immigrants in Arizona would not occur within a vacuum but would instead destroy an important piece of Arizona’s overall economic pie. Undocumented immigrants make up roughly 7 percent of the state’s population, and eliminating them would evaporate 581,000 jobs—not just for immigrants but also for native-born workers who are employed in sectors dependent on immigrant labor.

This mass attrition would reduce the state’s tax revenues by 10.1 percent, both in terms of revenue lost from fewer people in the workforce, as well as fewer people in the state paying income, employment, and consumption taxes, such as sales tax.

Del, I think you should move to Arizona. I'll be right across the border in New Mexico. We could visit.

ann,
really dont even want to be that close to you.

You are no fun whatsoever!

Must be something in their dry, polluted air.

It's called life.

As for their air, doctors send people there to breath the fresh air.

No not anymore too much smog these days and people with respitory problems have to wear masks now.

I'm personally glad. Someone has to stop the killing.

I agree...If a woman doesn't want a baby keep an aspirin between her legs or have one a place it for adoption.. Every child could be loved.

I agree..There's not such a thing as an unwanted baby.

It's not like there isn't birth control everywhere.

Its not as easy to buy birth control as it is to pick up a box of condoms. A woman has to be prescribed birth control, and before a doctor will prescribe it they insist on poking around in the ladies nether-regions, and charging them for the experience. Then they charge outrageous prices for the pills themselves.

Then, the uninsured like myself can't afford to pay the doctor for the privilege of a prescription, then the pills cost an ungodly amount too. (The last ones I got were $49!) And, heaven forbid, a woman go to the clinic where she can get the pills or a shot for free, or much cheaper than a doctors office, because people will be lined up outside to call her a murder, regardless that she's going there to prevent pregnancy, not get rid of it.

Like I said in my comment further down, Birth control should be made OTC, so women don't have to jump through hoops to get it.

Don't they do that so women can be taught how to use them, and make sure they aren't pregnant before they start them, and don't have an illness that will be exacerbated by them?

if people with the atitude like yours, want birth control - heck i would chip in.

we have enough gimme gimme spelfish people that want everything free to them while others pay fot it, without breeding more of them.

Char, back when I was still taking the pill, they made me come in ever 3 months for them to renew the prescription. By that time I KNEW how to use it, I wasn't pregnant because I was on it, and the only test they gave me was a pap-smear that always came back normal.

Del, I don't want it for free, I just don't want to have to continually go to the doctor for a prescription. I wouldn't even mind paying the $49 a month, if I didn't have to also pay for a doctors visit every 3 months as well. When you pay all medical expense out of pocket like I do, that adds up quickly. Maybe one visit a year, but not every 3 months for me to pay them over $200 to look at my lady bits and write their name on a slip of paper.

Sounds more like a claim to shame than anything else.

Unfortunatley, your opinion is just what keeps up the murders of the unborn.

to a true fabian, it would nips.

Up to 50% of all pregnancies end in miscarriage (This figure includes women who didn't know they were pregnant). Among women who know they are pregnant, the miscarriage rate is 20%.

I wonder why God allows that?

i wonder why people think they should be smater than God, and kill babies that were NOT subject to a miscarriage.

you really should ask my son in law - an abortion survivor.

How does one survive an abortion?

well ann there are many many examples of it - aborted babies, that didnt die right away and were rescued - and in his situation, they aborted one (his twin brother), and he survived, and delivered a month later - poreemie yes - but alive.

the fact that you have no clue that it happens is quite scary, and another reason i dont want to live anywhere near you.

have you never heard of the aborted "tumors" as they prefer to call them, crying, left to die a horrible death? and many times they are rescued????

have you been in a cloistered convent the last 30 years?

Okay, that example makes sense, I guess, although it sounds as if they never intended to abort the fetus in question.

How about a reference link on this phenomena in general? (And yes, being a scientist CAN resemble being cloistered).

Thank you so much for sharing with Sadies Points

oh well it only three hours to drive across Arizona,, so alot of folks will be driving,,
it a matter of choice,, not one I would take,, yet that is a right to one freedom and womenhood

> . . Is there something wrong with babyhood that would keep Steph-in-ne from landing in Arizona.

I often wonder why people would defend killing or aborting babies. I think it is the ultimate act of hate.

I wonder why folks only read what they want to see,, I said it is a matter of choice and I would not take that choice. yet folks have rights as well as babies.
Del Nerkez you must learn to read I never said I kill babies and to be so low to accuse one you dont even know to say that. I do not promote abortion, yet again it is a matter of right to one indivdual. Please learn how to read before making such statements... Again I always wonder why folks read what they want to read.. and not the truth...

I said I never promote abortion I say it is a matter of choice,, please learn how to read,,
and if your son was a survivor,, then you made a choice to do it and then not do it..

If women want abortions, women will get abortions. If made illegal they will just have them sneaking around to illegal doctors getting "coat hanger" abortions that will probably end up killing just as many accidentally pregnant teens as it does their unborn children.

I think what would help more than that would be to have birth control easier to get. You have to go to a doctor and get a prescription for birth control, so there is no privacy. If you want "free" birth control you have to go to planned parenthood where you are attacked by pro-lifers whether you believe in abortion or not.

I think "The Pill" should be available OTC without a doctors prescription because if birth control were easier to get your hands on, less people would be turning to abortion after the fact.

I think what would help more than that would be to have birth control easier to get.

are you kidding?

bc pills can be bought for as little as 9 bucks a month, withoug insurance - condoms can be bought for less than 25 cents each (and delivered right to your door), or picked up at any number of county clinics, planned parenthood etc.

how much easier do you want it?

maybe someone to come out and put the condom on the man for you?

no one attacks anyone going to pp for birth control - murdering babies is another story, but i agree that is wrong too (to attack them).

at this point, the murder of babies is legal - because after all that kid can be SUCH a nuisance - spit up on your clothes, diaper leaks, think they should be fed EVERY SINGLE DAY - SEVERAL TIMES!!!!!! omg - how does anyone stand it? plius it is then SO hard to go the local orgy, drug fest, dance club - wow - what a burden!

crazy rat lady - did some of them bite you and give you rat fever?

Last time I bought birth control it was $48 out of my pocket. That was several years ago, and the last time I bought it because I was outraged at the price.

Not to mention you have to pay for the visit to the doctor to prescribe the birth control for you, and that's not cheap. Its $80 to walk in the door. Thats just the office visit, before the doctor sees you, not counting what me might charge you for doing once he's got you on that table with your feet up in stirrups.

Condoms are MUCH easier to get, and that's awesome, but then you have to listen to the men whine about them. I've had 3 sexual partners in my entire life, and all 3 of them (including my husband) complained about having to wear condoms. Most guys don't care about the pregnancy side of sex, because its "not their problem." All they care about it "it doesn't feel as good" with a condom on.

The PP protesters don't stop and casually ask you why you are going there, they start screaming at you just BECAUSE you are going there. They verbally attacked a close friend of mine when her car broke down and she went in to use the PHONE. (back before everyone had cell phones.....wow, I'm old.)

Me personally, I'm happily married with one son already, and it wouldn't be the end of my world if I got pregnant again. I don't mind any of the "horrible" things you said about babies, and think being a mom is great.

I still don't like having to jump through hoops and pay someone to poke around in my private parts before they give me permission to go on the pill though.

Sorry, I got the cost wrong. It was $49 last time I bought the pill, not $48, but it WAS a long time ago.

wow - they took a stand :)

love the thinking that if a woman wants an abortion she will get one, do might as well be legal.

apply that to murder, spousal abuse, robbery, rape.

if a person wants to do it they will - so hey - why have any laws at all? just let them do it legally?

what a moronic idotic thing to believe.

i wonder how some folks manage to have the brains to put their clothes on and tie their shoes.

We do have laws against murder, spousal abuse, robbery and rape.

And guess what....all 4 of those things happen every day, multiple times a day, to many people.

No law ever written is going to keep someone from doing bad things if they want to do bad things.

exactly my point.

which totally invalidates your comment that If women want abortions, women will get abortions. If made illegal they will just have them sneaking around to illegal doctors getting "coat hanger" abortions that will probably end up killing just as many accidentally pregnant teens as it does their unborn children.

it has been proven repeatedly, that laws will currtail a small level of activity from fear of punishment.

look at marijuana - in my day it was a felony - 5 years minimum.

now it is hardly worse than a parking ticket, and the instance of use is a thousand fold higher.

not saying smoking is right, or wrong. just that it is more common, after the laws were eased.

abortion is no different.

there are MANY more abortions now, than there were before it was "legal".

so again - your comments that if a woman wants one she will get one - is not at all valid. between the legalization, and the propganda of calling the baby a 'growth' or not unlike a 'tumor' . or even 'fetus' - there is no comparison to how many would die to today.

and my aunt had an illegal abortion in the 30's. i know well the risks.

one of the risks that came to fruition, was that she never forgave herself.

i also have a son in law that is an abortion survivor.

i am not allowed to state here what his opinions on the subject are.

Lady…”Hi, Honey. Guess what? I am pregnant!”

Man…”You know we cannot afford a baby right now, and I am not sure that I am ready to be a father. There will be enormous hospital bills, all of the baby clothes we will have to buy, and we will have to pay a baby sitter. Let’s just kill it.”

Lady…”OK”

I apologize for the harshness of my above words, but I presented the extreme example because I wish to make a point. There are choices that are made that lead to an abortion, and in reality, many of those choices are less thought out than my above example. This is not rocket science, people. If you do not, under any circumstances wish to bring a child into this world, there is a foolproof manner in which to avoid that situation. If a man and a woman sleep together, there is a chance that the woman will become pregnant, and to only be concerned about that possibility after the fact indicates than some are too ignorant to be in that position to begin with. It is like throwing a brick at a window and hoping that it will not break. In today’s society, abortion is basically a form of birth control for those who are not responsible enough to even understand life, much less to understand the blessing of a child. The defense for abortion based on situations of rape or danger to the mother is pathetic. Those cases are a very small percentage of the abortions that take place in the course of a year. Abortion is a manner in which an irresponsible person can avoid responsibility, and it takes place by the actual murder of a child. This is the saddest part of our societal existence, and it is a choice made by the individual, whether it is considered your right, or not.

And for those who do not believe that life begins with conception, I say to you the following. Wait nine months, instead of getting an abortion, then tell me that life had not began nine months earlier.

If you do not wish to wreck your car, do not get drunk and get behind the wheel…If you do not wish to get arrested, do not violate any laws…If you do not wish to bring a child into the world, keep your pants on, and stop using abortion as a method to prevent a child you create from entering the world. It is just that simple…Vic Damico

bravo vic!

Thank you, JJ and Del...Just speaking from the heart, my friends...

EXCELLENT Vic. Well said.

Thanks for posting to ~3,000 Here We Come!~