Personhood debate comes to Oklahoma!

Very good article. I'm pleased to hear this if it's similar to Virginia's new law.

There is nothing as pathetic as the necessity to debate what life "is," in order to protect life that already is.

Thanks Fren. I mean it with all my heart and soul. I feel sorry for those who don't believe as I do, and know that they are killing their own children. It's very sad.

Thanks Fren. I believe that people who believe otherwise are killing their own babies. It is very sad.

Carol, plain and simple, abortion has become a means of birth control. It seems clear that is why Progressives support it - with our tax dollars, which is an evil that must be corrected as soon as we get a good president in our White House.

It is beyond reason how Leftists whine about the slightest token of Christmas being placed on public property, for sake of their tax dollars, but when it comes to something as critical as human life, they demand our tax dollars be used to pay for their killings. A most unconscionable display of despicable personal character.

thanks for sharing

I've been thinking about when life begins and don't really know. What criteria do you use? How do you prove life? When I was young people thought life began when the baby quickened and others thought when the baby could live independently of the mother. Now you say it begins at conception but you can't create life from nonliving things so the mother's eggs must also be alive as should the father's seed but we don't really consider them as living beings. Maybe life begins when god decides a particular baby is to be born. How would we know different? If the law is passed, how will it be defended in court? What proof must each side provide? There has to be some kind of verifiable proof of life to settle the issue. I think I will sit this one out and leave it to science and the legal system to come up with the answers.

In Ohio, they're trying to pass the heartbeat bill. When there is a heartbeat, there is human life. It's better than nothing, but I'm Carol. Life beings at conception.

Glad to hear it, Marlyn.

When does the heartbeat start in a fetus? Is there a reason behind selecting the heartbeat criteria as proof of human life? Can science prove when life starts in court? There are, after all, ramifications other than abortion. The catholics want some forms of birth control such as the morning after pill to be illegal since there may or may not be a fertilized egg involved. In my day they were opposed to the IUD since it does not let an egg imbed and it was not known if the egg had been fertilized or not. Recently it was brought up that some of the proposed laws could potentially cause a woman who had a miscarriage to be criminally investigated and/or charged with murdering her child.

What's a "person" and how does one distinguish a person from an animal or plant or other living thing?

A person's religion makes that distinction, and these days religion is ruling politics. The Christian evangelicals are paving the way for sharia law in America (other religions in America will want to push their fundamentalism, too, and will have new rights to do it.)

Religious fundamentalism, EEEEKKK!!!

Peter, you're confused. Ignoring that sharia law is already being practiced here is what will bring more of it. Not being informed.

I find it sad that people even question when life begins.

Peter,
Believe it or not, I am not a religious person. I am a Christian but I follow the Bible not man's religion. I believe all life is precious. Movement is life.

Is no one willing to offer their definition of "person"?

"person" … a human being that has been born ?

Bruce,

Note the word "being" in that definition. Does "being" require a mind or consciousness? Is a cat a being?

>Peter, you're confused. Ignoring that sharia law is already being practiced here is what will bring more of it. Not being informed.

You're confused by what make things legal. Doing something illegal doesn't make it legal. If some Muslim practices are already here illegally it is still illegal, and so can be stopped when the police are called. If we make it legal, it becomes legal where it wasn't before, and now can't be stopped. We can't legally pick and chose what religious laws we will allow and those we won't allow, as a government. If we are going to allow Roman Catholic law to trump secular law then other religions get the same rights. We can't allow some religions to ignore the law and not others. Unless you want to throw out the constitution ...


>I find it sad that people even question when life begins.

That is not being questioned at all! A baby blade of grass is alive. All your cells in your body are alive. Sperm is alive. The concept of "life" needs managed "legally", then, and it need to take into account those who are already born grown humans (women in particular) who have their own complicated needs, otherwise, beyond being merely the ones with wombs. The compromise of Roe VS Wade took a stab at it. It isn't absolutist and extremist, it will never be perfect but such is real life.

Bruce...as usual, you are wrong...a fetus that is viable but unborn is a "person"...

Jo Jo,

Would you care to define "person" for us?

To not be so narrow and one sided, Roe VS Wade made a compromise on the issue.

Roe changed her mind.

Interesting, thanks.

Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

Let the heathen spill theirs
On the dusty ground.
God shall make them pay for
Each sperm that can't be found.

Every sperm is wanted.
Every sperm is good.
Every sperm is needed
In your neighbourhood.

Oh, please...

Well, now. I wonder. Since Corporations are considered 'persons' for First Amendment rights and taxation, can they also be considered persons for homicide? Ewwww. Just imagine what Romney's rap-sheet would look like...

The whole 'personhood' question goes beyond the fetus. We need to make some serious social decisions about what constitutes 'personhood' and whether things that aren't 'persons' can still have special rights.

I just put this on my twitter feed, The Scientific Basis for Defending Life, Opposing Abortion. “(Fertilization is) that wondrous moment that marks the beginning of life for a new unique individual.” Dr. Louis Fridhandler, in Biology of Gestation Volume One.

The issue is not when "life" begins...trees, cock roaches and squirells are "alive".

The issue is when does life become "human" and, therefore, entitled to all the protections and responsibilities of being human...

For me, the answer is...when it achieves sufficient sentience to have thoughts and feel pain...when is that???

About a week ago.