Our America?

If he's not trying to destroy us from within using divisions of class warfare, he's creating non-scandals to divert from his failures or spending more money than Hasbro has Monopoly games or sicking Union/Communist revolutionaries on citizens and businesses or buying votes that can't be found in a Chicago graveyard or bedding enemies and spitting in the faces of our allies or erasing liberties from our Constitution or mandating and regulating freedoms out from under us and our economy or selling our souls to the UN or ... ... ...

... there are no words for this one.

Be sure to get out the vote in November. Be there on that one day if you never do anything else. Until then, speak the truth to everyone you see and pray.

JJ, yes it is.

Don't you sometimes feel like you're caught in a nightmare and can't wake up?

Marilyn, maybe when we elect a new president I can sleep enough to have nightmares :).

I get that, Fren. There are some nights when 5 hours is a lot of sleep. :)

and calling an arizona sherriff cruel, and inflicting unusual punishment, for treating convicted criminalsw the exact same way we treat our own in the armed forces.

and making it clear, you can no longer enter a legal contract and be guaranteed the government will not simply ignore it, and give everything to the unions.

a country where 4 year olds are told their mommy is bad (by implication), for sending a "bad" lunch, that had grain (whole bread), white meat (tiurkey) dairy (cheese) 2 fruits (a bananna and box of apple juice) and a slight amount of starch that also adds some fiber (chips). even tho the lunch does meet the schools guidelines, unless you dont coiunt poure apple juice as a fruit group product?

gime a while i can think of more examples.

Del, "you can no longer enter a legal contract and be guaranteed the government will not simply ignore it, and give everything to the unions."

I didn't realize until my Dad told me. He had about $5,000 invested in GM. All of the sudden the money was "just gone." I had no idea Obama just walked away with people's money from all of those investment accounts. My gosh, you can only imagine how much that amounted to? It's unfathomable. What about the FDIC?

fdic only insures deposits in insured banks.

investments are on their own.

the craziest thing about it, is the bankruptcy code is very specifric about 'secured claims' versus 'unsecured claims', aned how they will be treated. but bo managed to get the chrysler bk, done in a district where he had friends obviously, and they 100% flat out did the opposite of what the law says.

with gm it is slightly different - SOMEone was granted authority to negotiate the settlement agreement, and agreed to give it all awy.

That's horrible about your dad, Fren. That was one (of many) things wrong with the negotiations on this.

It was unprecedented what Obama did. He totally screwed the secured bondholders, all to pay back his union buddies. It is so complicated I can't sum it up in a nutshell here, but no other bankruptcy in history was handled this way.

oh - it is 100% against not only the spirt of (the bankruptcy) law, it is explicitly against the letter of the law!!!! having worked for many many companies and rep[resenting creditors in bankruptcy proceedings - it is simply ............. not allowed!!!

and violates contract law as well!!!!

there were law-suits attempted, but no court would hear them.

and as far as i know - there is NO appeal on a bankruptcy courts decisions!

they are final!

baffles my mind.

You have every right to be mad as HELL, Bill.

I think about such things as our Boys, wading ashore on D-Day...possibly one of the Bravest acts in History...doing the impossible, with Valour, and succeeding. For what? I think about how they suffered in the Pacific, at the hands of Barbarians, Boys who, many, had not yet even reached the age 20, and for what? I think about everything that has transpired in this once-Great Country, which is, of course, still Great...but dying, slowly. And for what?

I think of the Aid we send, while so many of us here are suffering, and for what? I think of the Life-changing, World-changing inventions we've contributed; the never-ending protection and general ASS-SAVING of every weakling in the World, who prefers to legalise Drugs and take Vacations instead of doing it themselves. And for what? I think about an entire Globe, supported on the backs of an American Middle-Class who asks No Quarter, and nary a word of complaint all the way long, and for what?

I think of our Magnificent and incomparable Constitution, and how she is beaten, berated, hated, and abused at every turn by idiots, morons and fools...and for what?

It is because We Love Her, Bill. We are a part, a very small but SIGNIFICANT Part, of the Greatest Experiment, and of the Greatest Nation ever known to this Planet, ever known to this World...ever known to Mankind.

You are a part of Her, Bill. We are a part of Her. Be Proud.

Be very Proud.

I'm not done, God Damn it.

This is no longer Our America, Bill. I agree. This isn't an America that any real American would accept by any means. And by Gods Grace we won't.

As far as I'm concerned, Obama, his henchmen, and their henchmen can Kiss my Ass. As can any and every elected "republican" do-nothing spineless coward who's colluded with them.

And, they can bend over and kiss their own while they're at it...

with you 100% mark-j,

i had a grandpa that was life long, staunch died in the wool republican, and another that was life long, staunch died in the wool democrat.

and both are spinning in their graves.

place turbines over the graves of our founders, and our soldiers - the spinning will create enough wind to power this and 3 more worlds.

i just do not get it - how in the HELL have people gotten to where so many are.

the selfishness, the lack of pride, self-respect, the utter, total and complete desolation of all honor??????????

i would ratyher spend the last of my so-called 'golden years' without electric, phone, gas - living in a lean-to, chopping wood for building a fire for warmth, hunting my own food, planting my own crops - than to have this absolute shite pile of crap handed on to my children, and grandchildren.


we have a;llowed them all to bugger us, in the name of being 'polite' and 'accepting of everyone and everything', not ever hurting anyones feelings as they trample us into the muck, and mire of serfdom.

again.

it is no different than the so-called 'great potato famine' which was not a famine at all.

there was plenty to feed them - but the lords, and overseers, and princes and kings, demanded so high a price, that not enough was left to feed those that produce.

we fought them in rome,
we fought them in greece,
not wanting to rule,
just wanting our peace.

we fought them in highlands,
we fought them in vales.
we fought them in ireland,
and scotland and wales.

we came to new land,
to end the fight,
to live and let live,
not ruled by might.

but ne'er does it end,
the wrath that they wrought,
pretending to help us,
their 'help' is of naught.

our spirits are worn,
our bodies are bent.
yet if need be forlorn
to arms we be lent.

will work on that, spelling, meter, rhythm etc aftter my blood pressure is lower, and my eyes are not so heavy.

it just sort of poured out.

Coming from the UK I can sympathise with all of you. I cannot recognize my country at the moment we pander to people that would kill all of us as soon as look at us I refer to of course this man Abu Qatada http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/hate-preacher-abu-qatada-to-walk-682611

Moreover, not only have we released him we are protecting him. This one is quite personal with me because last year one of my last duties is as an officer I had to address a church full of mourners of a young soldier that had been killed in Afghanistan and this piece of garbage has openly supported on our streets the killing of my countries military personnel in Afghanistan. http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474979598649

Then we have this where a Christian carer who refused to work on Sundays 'denied rights given to a Muslim allowed to visit mosque' http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2104047/Christian-carer-refused-work-Sundays-denied-rights-given-Muslim-allowed-visit-mosque.html

Then in our schools, we have this where Boy, 7, branded a racist for asking schoolmate: 'Are you brown because you come from Africa?' http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2103175/Boy-7-branded-racist-asking-schoolmate-Are-brown-come-Africa.html

What are our great countries coming to when all of this happens?

i read that about the young boy asking whay are you brown ...........

so insane.

at that age, they ask "who is that?" of every person they see - "why is the sky blue?", "where does carpet come from?", "how does the money get inside that machine?", "why did grandpa die?", "how far away are the stars?" (all actual questions my own children posed to me).

i also read the mopther of the child that was asked the question, stood up and said it was NOT a racist question.

yet, "never let the facts get in the way" seems to be the modis operandi".


oh for the days when all we had to fight about was how to pronouce 'lieutenant'.

"i just do not get it - how in the HELL have people gotten to where so many are.

the selfishness, the lack of pride, self-respect, the utter, total and complete desolation of all honor?????????? --Del

Del, very well-said. I concur. The sacrifices of our Founders, and those of "The Greatest Generation." The sacrifice of every American, and every Brit during World War ll; and all of those lives lost...and for what? For this???

Beautifully-written Poem, Del...I'd get that Copyrighted forthwith. You need to do a Book of Poems...on Patriotism.

Graham-

I mourn with you.

"This Blessed plot. This Earth. This Realm...This England."

One would not recognise Picadilly, today...or Carnaby Street. Our Soveriegnty has been handed over to immigrants...and a pathetic and disrespectful and ungrateful lot they be. They demand that we behave as they do; and if not, they will devour the weakling "multiculturalist," Tory or otherwise. They didn't even have the foresight to see it coming, nor heed all warnings. They couldn't look to the Dutch, and their demise at the hands of the immigrant, though it be spelled out for them, their own FUTURE.

And now, sadly, England has succumbed; and fools and murderers and ingrates are in your midst and well-entrenched. British Judges have their sympathy. Shar'ia is being used to abuse the Rights of the Brit. And all of the Bravery, and the Death and Dying of the British Soldier, from Churchill to the Pilot of the Spitfire, who defended her from the Blitz; to the bravest and lowly Infantryman of the 50th Northumbrian Division, British 2nd Army.

And for what???

Now, we have the feminised Britain; so damned eager to bend over to the demands of "political correctness" and the demands of ingrates. Hitler couldn't crush her with his Armed Might...but she is being cut to pieces by COMPLACENCE, and STUPIDITY.

Yes, Graham...we mourn...

...ALL of Us.

mark-john
i figure the time stamp here isd as close to a copywrite as i can afford lol.

mari,
thank you kind lady.
your verse certainly is well said, and an apt description of where we are.

Laughs! I understand. It's those harsh Petrol prices...

That's OK about the copy right, you have it printed right here with time and date. They told me any proof would do.
I'm copying both your poems with your name attached to put in my private collection. They are both very moving.

just saw this - and thank you glome!

mari has several of her poems posted here, and they are all good!

i have maybe 60 or so? easiest to find mine, by going back to my original posts here (maybe 5 pages?), and work forward.

that is after all why i started posting on gather. had NO idea i would get involved in the political stuff here lol.

What does your six years in the Army have to do with how unhappy you are (apparently) with the country and all the things you think are wrong with it?

"Six years in the Army" says nothing about any fighting, for freedoms or otherwise. Maybe he fought, maybe he didn't. I have no idea.

In any case, I still don't see how one is necessarily connected to the other. Lots of people serve or have served in the military, including in combat roles, and don't share Bill's negative opinions of President Obama and of the country.

"Lots of people serve or have served in the military, including in combat roles, and don't share Bill's negative opinions of President Obama and of the country."-- Wil

Wil, people serve for many reasons. Most of them, because they Love their Country, their Constitution, and God. I suspect that Bill is one of them...

...and it is astoundingly revealing to me, Wil, that a Man who wore the Uniform, and his WORTH, are measured by you, with the yardstick of Battle.

Yep, I also put in six years in uniform, but it only took a bit over one to find out how the recruiters lie with false promises to get people to enlist ...

Wil, you really cannot see the connection? In some ways, we are all fighting for our country, even you. But there are varying degrees. A person who put himself between our enemies and the rest of us has illustrated quite well his commitment to our country. What has Obama done to illustrate that? Hand on his heart when he pledged allegiance? Nope. Favoring and advocating for the ideas of freedom and liberty our country was founded? Nope. Protecting the equal rights of all individuals? Nope.

Good answer John....

wil,
an another thread, you stated you had been thru going thru the process of being an immagrant to becoming a citizen - and stated it was NOT the US.

which would mean you either renounced your citizenship here, or were never a citizen here. the only other choice, is you lied on the other post.

if either of the frist two are true - you have no exposure, experience, or knowledge, of what it means to be a patriotic american.

if you are a lair, that will say anything to try to make a point then your words have zero credibility.

nuff said.

Bill, and Jerry...Thank You both for the Service you've rendered for your Country. Most Americans are deeply appreciative.

"Wil, people serve for many reasons. Most of them, because they Love their Country, their Constitution, and God. I suspect that Bill is one of them..."

I agree that people serve in the military for many reasons. Your statement about why most of them serve may or may not be true. Whether Bill does or doesn't love the country, he's definitely expressed a lot of negative opinions about it.

My original question to Bill remains unanswered, either by Bill himself or by the various people who've taken it upon themselves to try to answer for him.

"...and it is astoundingly revealing to me, Wil, that a Man who wore the Uniform, and his WORTH, are measured by you, with the yardstick of Battle."

It's revealing to me, Mark-John, that you've made such an obviously ridiculous statement, since I haven't made any comments about Bill's WORTH, and since it was jj myles, not me, that mentioned that Bill had "fought for the freedoms" of something or another.

"Wil, you really cannot see the connection? In some ways, we are all fighting for our country, even you. But there are varying degrees. A person who put himself between our enemies and the rest of us has illustrated quite well his commitment to our country."

As I said before, I know lots of people who've served in the military who don't share Bill's negative opinions of President Obama and of the country, so I'm not sure why you think Bill's military service and his attitudes are so obviously connected.

"an another thread, you stated you had been thru going thru the process of being an immagrant to becoming a citizen - and stated it was NOT the US.

which would mean you either renounced your citizenship here, or were never a citizen here. the only other choice, is you lied on the other post."

And as I pointed out to you in that other thread, you are either confused or ignorant about how dual citizenship works, even though I've provided you with links to information so that you could educate yourself.

"if you are a lair, that will say anything to try to make a point then your words have zero credibility."

Then I'm sure you're willing to admit that your words have zero credibility, since it's clear that you lied when you made the following statement in the other discussion:

but hey - not a big problem to ignore you - which i will do from now on.

comment back all you want - but i will not answer - it is a waste of time.

Nuff said? LMAO!

Wil I gave you the answer...I didn't say that I expected you to actually understand or comprehend it.

"Wil I gave you the answer."

The answer, huh? I don't think so.

I didn't ask you a question, Mark-John, and I didn't expect you to answer for Bill. I understood what you said, but since you're not Bill, I don't consider it an answer to my question, and certainly not the answer.

have to admit wil. ya got me sorta - i actually meant will respond to you no more 'on this topic'.

and yes, i see you gave a link, after i stated, and followed thru on, not discussing that matter further .

of course it is an australian law.

so again, you volunteered to become a citizen of another country.

so go comment on your chosen countries policies, you apparantly have no interest in ours, other than to incite anger. (which alinsky rule is that again? i see you are studying it).

or - as wc fields said - go away boy, ya bother me.

Wil, I quite agree...it is no place for me to answer for Bill.

So, I decided to answer for myself.

"have to admit wil. ya got me sorta - i actually meant will respond to you no more 'on this topic'."

Are you suggesting that you only technically lied and that you don't expect others to hold you responsible for what you say, but only for what you claim (after the fact) to have meant?

"of course it is an australian law."

That's right, Del. Do you have something against Australian law? I provided that link because I think it does a pretty good job of explaining dual/multiple citizenship, and made it clear that people seeking Australian citizenship don't have to renounce their citizenship of other countries.

If you're still confused about dual citizenship, or you don't understand how it works for US citizens as far as the US government is concerned, that information is available from the US State Dept. website.

"so again, you volunteered to become a citizen of another country."

Yep. But that has no impact on my status as a US citizen. From the State Dept.:

In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.

I did not apply for foreign citizenship with the intention of giving up US citizenship, nor do I have any intention of doing so now.

"so go comment on your chosen countries policies, you apparantly have no interest in ours, other than to incite anger. "

Not that it matters, but again I'll point out that I am both a US citizen and an Australian citizen. I own property in both countries. I pay taxes in both countries. I vote in both countries. And I discuss the policies of governments in both countries.

As I said, not that it matters, since citizenship status doesn't have anything to do with whether or not a person can comment on any country's policies or social issues or anything else that person might want to comment on.

If you don't like it and it bothers you...well, too bad.

"What does your six years in the Army have to do with how unhappy you are (apparently) with the country and all the things you think are wrong with it?"

Hey Wil, I dare you to walk into any American Legion or VFW Post and start spouting off with that line of bullshit.

"Hey Wil, I dare you to walk into any American Legion or VFW Post and start spouting off with that line of bullshit."

What, you don't want me to meet them by the monkey bars after school? LMAO!

You're one of those adults that like to hang around schoolyards?

I'm one of those adults that likes to laugh his ass off when other supposed adults says ridiculously childish things like "I dare you to walk into an American Legion or VFW post and start spouting off with that line of bullshit."

There's nothing childish about it Wil. Walk into an American Legion or VFW Post with your insulting points of view. See how far you get with the men and women who have put their live on the line for this country you find so reprehensible.

"wil Go Harrass the poor folks that have to contend with the likes of you in your chosen Countr. We really aren't interested in anything someone like you has to say about our Country."

I'll go ahead and continue to say what I want to say about any country, or any other topic I choose, JJ. If you're not interested, you don't have to read my comments.

"There's nothing childish about it Wil."

I think it's extraordinarily juvenile.

"See how far you get with the men and women who have put their live on the line for this country you find so reprehensible."

I don't find them collectively reprehensible nor do I find them praiseworthy, although some may well be one or the other (or both) as individuals.

You may think joining the military (voluntarily or otherwise) makes a person better, and their opinions on political matters more important, than those who don't, but I disagree.

Can you list any more things wrong with this Nation? Yup, FOX and associated radio talk shows.

Kays, you can take your hatred of the Constitution and of our Freedom of Speech, and go straight to Hell.

Perfect example of what the mentioned media(s) will do to one's mind.

Likewise. Difference is, one is Constitutional...one is not.

And who stands where is quite evident.

Wait, MSN, CNN etc. have no freedom of speech?

We have such liberal states that I wish they would give these states back to
all of the illegals. We can take the good people out of these states and place them within the US to make OUR US good and decent again...
When is teaching morals to kids indecent? Teaching them about SEX and passing out free contraceptives without the parents consent and as early as age 12.... We dont have any guidance and we sure arent getting any from celebs or our politians...We let our media report about all the smut in this country.. They make it attractive to pop out kids with no daddy in the picture...To pop out kids at a young age... but yet, fight about someone smoking a cig. or fight about someone wanting to pray in school...
The schools teach a liberal agenda and praise the "ANYTHING GOES SOCIETY". The occupy poopers want government handouts , they seem to embrace the gimme idea... BUT are to stupid to ask , where the money is coming from to support all of their lazy ideas... THey are fueled by the Michael Moores( who made a good living in this country) ....and a president who supports them for what? Destruction of property, creating havoc for the cops, creating health problems by leaving their waste all over ? A president who divides the country , he certainly has done nothing to unite us... He even plays the race card... he doesnt call for an end to calling someone a racist, instead he incites. He embraces the divide, the trouble in the streets....he loves drama... and the stupids dont see it... When he needs a diversion so that people will not pay attention to the sneakiness of this administration, he calls for violence... or hops on two different planes to take a vacation with his family who usually meets up with him on some distination... or you can find him laughing the countrys troubles away at the golf course.... THen you have the DC bunch paying 16 bucks to buy a muffin, but see nothing wrong with spending OUR money...

He never had any intention of uniting us, and that's the big difference between a liberal/progressive Democrat and a conservative Republican.

Why do people keep saying that the President had these men arrested? Do you really think he gave an order to have them arrested? He probably had no idea they were outside, if he was even inside the White House at all. No, we don't want our religious leaders locked up, but, a part of being a Christian is also being orderly and obedient. If they were in some way violating by being there, then, they should have left. If they felt they were in the right, then, taken it to court. But, one thing their arrest did do, is bring attention to their cause, and that's a blessing - isn't it? All things work together for those who love the Lord. God is in control.

There are a lot of things wrong with this country. Sometimes we have to count our blessings and trust the Lord to show us how to make things better. If we could ever learn to love each other, then, just maybe we could see some changes. Change starts within each individual. One thing I try to do is pray for all our leaders, even those I don't agree with. And thank you for your six years of service - thank God you made it home safely.

Gloria,
Thanks. Did you know the Obama Administration will no longer let Ministers carry Bibles into Walter Reed?

Obama is an Anti-Christian President.

No Bibles into the Hospital??? I didn't know that, Bill.

That is obscene.

That decision was reversed quite some time ago. (Just google it.)

Were they arrested for praying or for disturbing the peace or not having a permit for the demonstration?

The six were arrested on a charge of “disobeying a lawful order.” The priest explained that while it is legal to hold protests in front of the White House, protesters are not allowed to remain stationary, including if they kneel down and pray

Yep, that about covers it, huh? I'm thinking if the six men had been Islamic and praying for the destruction of America in front of the White House...they would not have bothered them at all.

And once again...I'm sure you agree with Obama on this, Juan?

OOObbbbaaaammmaaaa Bahhh bahhh

More Obama Sheep...

Bill, you know and I do as well that had they been Islamic they would not have been arrested.

This has to be the most absurd post and comment thread I've read on gather in a year or more.

I agree.

Thanks Chuck. When you cannot debate the issues, you just belittle the content. Demoncrats have been doing it for so long they can no longer really debate. It's lazy...

Bill, you should feel good. If Chuck doesn't like something you know you've hit a home run.

A summary judgment seems appropriate, Bill. For example, when you say without support, "We have a Country where they are teaching children in schools Civil Disobedience. What are they going to teach them...to crap on Police cars?" the "absurd" flag goes up.

A course on American history that does not teach the role of civil disobedience in societal change would be rather poorly constructed. Pick a century, Bill. The eighteenth? Should we strike the Boston Tea Party from the books? The nineteenth? Take a razor knife to the chapter that discusses the Underground Railway? The twentieth? How about the story of Rosa Parks refusing to give up her seat on the bus to a white male passenger on December 1, 1955. These people all broke the law, Bill. These and many other acts of civil disobedience shaped America and in many cases made it a better place. I don't think we should keep that history from the kids.

Again, that's just an example. I don't think, as Chuck implied above, that your content rises to the level of commentary that is worthy of serious dialog.

So, do you think you spent time in the military so you would be free to post a pack of lies like this and get away with it?

The Almighty says this must be a fashionable fight. It's drawn the finest people

He-he...