The United States of Europe is on its way

The "United States of Europe" will not exist in the near future. I am from Germany and I am sick of paying for Greece and other countries where corrupt politicians filled their own wallets and left their countries suffering.
I would only agree to a union with France, which will not happen too soon because of different political views and our history. Britain is not in the Eurozone anyway, along with some other clever European countries, e.g. Norway.

The only thing that bothers me is that our politicians do not care to ask what the people want. They throw away our tax money to help Greece. Thank you... not!

Christine, they keep telling us that we "have to" help these nations for sake of our own? I assume it is still is the American dollar that other countries trade in when push comes to shove?

Hopefully we change those politicians in 2012!

Germany will also be voting in 2012 and boy will I vote for a different party!

Then think of us in the UK, Christine... we're not even IN the Euro zone and yet we are STILL having to support the Euro -- at a time when the UK is in pretty dire straits itself. We (I'm obviously including Germany in this!) have already given at the office ... for Ireland, for Greece Portugal and, any minute, for Spain, Italy and France..

They daren't ask their voters - most countries of the northern Europe group would flatly vote NOT to save the Euro.

Christine,
A political union between Germany and France is about as likely as a Israel and Syria joining together to form a single nation LOL.

I don't get much sense of the feeling in German among voters but I have read many tyimes that the ruling coalition is on the verge of falling apart as minor parties try to distance themselves from Mrs Merkel.

Some years ago I worked in the Baittment Jean Monnet in Luxembourg, the headquarters of the EU commission. In that buiding, framed in a display case, is the draft document from 1953 I think, on which the EU was founded. It states verey clearly the intention was always to dissolve the nation states and unite Europe under a central government.

Now that is coming into the open the people will not accept it.

Ishbel,
Have you noticed how well UKIP (UK Independence Party for US readers; they may have their fair share of Mad Hattters but they're no Tea Party) are doing in the opinion polls? They are ahead of the Liberal Democrats and gaining strength as we get dragged into the EU mess.

The SNP north of the border aren't winning many friends with their pro Brussels stance either.

Ian, I’m well aware of the problems between Germany and France and do understand much of that, the French want their cake and retirement and I as an American feel them also to be lazy. I know that the Germans basically also feel that way too, been there and know way too many Germans.

The UK must stay out of this fiscal mess till it’s over (my opinion).

Germany has actually in my opinion decided to do this, as there is no alternative. For Germany to go back to the Deutsche Mark can’t be done, as they have a much bigger stake in the world and need to drag all those other lazy bum country with them into this with a ‘new’ fiscal responsibility and the politics won’t be nice at all I fear.

Yes, I think it's fear, Ian...! UKIP and Migrationwatch seem to be flourishing more as the economy sinks.

As for the SNP... well, what can I say? They are my party of choice, from a poor pool of useless parties, but Mr Salmond is USELESS.

We British are sick to the back teeth of having to bail out countries that are in the Euro Zone. Ian I seem to remember many years ago when we British were asked about participating in Europe in that referendum that we had it was called the Common Market then suddenly without anyone noticing it became The European Union with all sorts of Draconian laws that each and everyone of us have to abide by not just we British but everyone in the Union.

UKIP is doing well and why not when you force something on a people they have two options the first option is to take to the streets and forcibly bring down that Government that wont listen to the voters either by lethal force as in an uprising or the second option is to join a political party that has your best interest at heart, and at the moment UKIP fulfils the best interest of all in Britain when it comes down to Europe.

When you speak to the vast majority in Britain they don't want anything to do with the European Union yet non of the main parties will do anything about it we rumble on lurching from one European crises to another and our politicians sit there pontificating just as Nero did when Rome began to burn.

We British alone have given at least 40 billion £s to bail out countries who decided that the Euro was the way forward and that's not counting the annual subscription of 20 Billion £s and we are on the verge of giving more. And this is when we have our own monetary problems God know what state we would have been in if we had followed the sheep of other countries in Europe and made the Euro our currency.

Ian, You said:In that buiding, framed in a display case, is the draft document from 1953 I think, on which the EU was founded. It states verey clearly the intention was always to dissolve the nation states and unite Europe under a central government.

I am so glad you said that, and I read it! Suddenly it became clear to me, we are not alone in the need to wake up and stop the one world order. They are marching forward to take over Europe, too. I think back to Bush Sr. when he said it out loud, the new world order, and nobody really understood. Certainly clear now, isn't it? Make more than 50% of the target population dependent on handouts, and indoctrinated to think the government is the money, and then threaten to withdraw the handouts and TAKEOVER> Wow, great plan, and as we see, there is only a very short time to stop it now. The 50% is now and the teeter totter is about to tip against personal liberty.

Char, "we are not alone in the need to wake up and stop the one world order. They are marching forward to take over Europe, too. I think back to Bush Sr. when he said it out loud, the new world order, and nobody really understood. Certainly clear now, isn't it?"

I'm with you on on these points! I was shocked when I heard Bush say that, after later understanding its' context; and I feared America was alone in not wanting International intervention.

You are so correct, Char. Americans need to get this election right and, apparently, other countries need to do that too.

Funny. According to your logic the USA should have never united... so could you please split up in 50 independent countries?

(not that I support a "United States of Europe" idea)

I think what becomes of the U.S. in coming months will have a lot to do with it. Hopefully Americans are prepared to sustain us as the free and soverign nation we used to be.

Reading that Fren, I wonder if we have any candidate that would do that?

Char, do you mean "sustain" us as a free country? I think we have a few very good candidates who would do that. Unfortunately for now, those I see most willing are in the lower tiers of popularity. I pray God protects us with the right one, whoever that is.

Me too Fren, prayer may be our only hope, to heal our nation.

I think the Euro will fail and the economy of Europe will break up again. As the depression hits, the politics will force stupid behavior on the politicians which will bring it down.

I don't know which of our predictions to root for. :-(

Richard,

Did the exploitation of the poor and middle classes start with the institution of the Euro or did it simply continue via a new means? I would contend that it's simply another means of continuing the same old frauds on the general public. I see it as business as usual. The problem isn't the form of physical object money, it's the fact of physical object money.

The need of what we all call ‘money’ is and has always been a thing to be used and nothing else at all. Make the prostitutes feel good as well as the accountants and give them something in return for their services. That has always been the way it's been. Pay back for services rendered.

Now then it actually is not relevant what that payback is as long as it is accepted by the one giving that service or making that bet. It has therefore never been relevant what that payback has been and still isn’t as long as ‘it’ is accepted.

The bet is made from one to the broker and the payback from that broker will be given back to the one that made the bet in the first place with the same thing that the bet was made on in the first place. We just call that money; it in reality could be chickens.

I know that his name is also Richard, and he may or may not answer you

Richard,

Chickens are also a physical object. I am not advocating a change from one physical object to another and I am not advocating a switch to having all money be in computers and we just pretend that the money in the accounts represents physical objects. Money has always been in the human mind rather than inherent in the physical object itself.

Yes, our physical object money (POM) has been useful and even necessary historically to allow sufficient division of labor (another way of saying sufficient trade) to allow our levels of technology to improve to today's levels. We have needed money but the more we have used money the more harm and damage to us it has brought. It is time after all these thousands of years to improve the nature of our money so that it does not do all this damage.

That's right you want more automation of this thing called money and I don't want any automation at all, as I know that computers only do what they are coded to do up until they break down.

Richard,

You still don't understand what I am proposing. Our money is already so automated that people can function just fine without cash / currency. Most money exists only in computer accounts already. But because we treat it as if it were a physical object, it causes us to do great harm. I propose that we change the nature of our money so that it comes into existence when earned and ceases to exist when spent. That is, it does not represent physical objects at all and has no physical object form.

How that can be and how it words you will not understand easily without reading the book.

not me I need that cash in my hand

Richard,

If you have that cash in your hand other people can take it from you against your will. You have no idea what that cash will be worth next year. You might lose that cash. How do you know it isn't counterfeit?

The nonsense of that reply is overwhelming

Richard,

Which statement in my 8:56 comment is not true.

If there is nonsense there, point it out and explain. If you cannot do so, perhaps your statement is the nonsense.

thanks for sharing