Just some thinking aloud...
A few days ago, I commented on a post, the post asking a question concerning children in church, particularly if the curtain climbers should sit for the sermon or sent off to kid's church.
I did a blah blah saying I felt that teaching mythology to children as if it's fact CAN be damaging to kids.
I was re-told in a comment that my comment was offensive, and that I was required to respect the beliefs of others.
I removed my offending comment and apologized.
Naturally, being an existential humanist (I made that up), to myself, I said: "WTF?"
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Comments: 95
You're not required to respect the beliefs of others-how do they explain war? While I tend to not get involved in any kind of political/religious discussion here, it's everyone's right to have an opinion and to be able to voice it. While I don't ever comment, I do read the political posts here and often find myself saying "WTF" at either the post itself, the comments, or both.
"Free speech is allowed as long as you agree with me."
It's a rhetorical question.
I get you point, however, many people get all pissy when they're not agreed with.
I like "existential humanist," too, because my tongue is well in my cheek, both terms pretty much overlapping to the point it's ALMOST redundant, but MOST people are going to totally miss that, which makes the term, my definition: existential.
I've read the Gospel Q (not just that, but that) and I COULD argue that the character, Josiah bar Joseph, who the later writers of the Gospels based their Jesus and The Christ characters on, was, in reality, a existential humanist, who would have nothing to do with what we generally know today as "Christianity."
Respectful of others' beliefs?!? Not bleepin' hardly!
I kinda like that all the different Christians fight amongst themselves. If they were to ever join forces, they'd then have time to hunt down the likes of me.
I REALLY should put together a detailed essay, arguing that the historical Jesus was in reality an existential humanist and if alive today, would have no time for what we call "Christianity."
Again, I'm not that invested in the topic.
I've found, when people ask: "Do you believe in God?" what they really ask is: "Do you believe in the image of god that I believe in?"
And, I think that's the point, that's what happens when we teach a mythology as if it's history.
I could make educated guesses about what you or kasey or Lee is thinking and I bet you that I am wrong 99%. So this guy knows no more about Jesus than anyone else does.
My guess is you go to church and read the bible too. So your guess is as good as his or anyone elses.
Kasey you have a right to speak your opinion, if they didn't want everyones opinion then the post shouldn't be posted. Sure I agree I don't like hatred, or bashing but there is a difference between that and opinions. Right now I don't see you doing any of that. Sadly I see things I don't like coming from one that claims to be living by the bible.
(Note: Catrina is the non-temporal being we would call 'god' in the context of the story. I can't give you would leads to this exchange, but by accident, Catrina took flesh and got stuck)
She looked to the clouds. “I do have one question, Catrina. There was this clown, you got a glimpse of him last night, who shot me twice in the chest. He had a smile on his face, I think. Anyway, is it cool for me to hunt him down like the dog he is and return the favor or is that wrong?â€
“I guess that’s an age old question, huh?â€
“I’m tired, don’t you dare distract me with parable nonsense!â€
“I do like you.†Catrina nodded to Megan. “If you weren’t so distracted, you’d see she does show the Mark.†Back to Josephine, she told her: “No parable, just the dirt. There is no right and wrong. It’s your life. Do what you got to do to live with yourself. I have never, nor will I ever judge you.â€
I think the AV department at a local high school runs Gather's IT.
"I would have, Chuck, argued my point, defending the right to MY opinion, but that would be the same as seeing a ramshackle man on the street corner, unbathed for weeks, wild eyes, slobber coating his unshaven chin, toting a sign proclaiming the end is near, and me stopping to argue with him that the end was not near."
Really. It was my bad. I know better than to raise the issue of civil rights at a KKK meeting.
Thanks for stopping by. Keep in mind, you can get in trouble 'talking' to me.
Most people could care less if another persons freedom of speech is infringed upon all they care about is their own.
I wasn't disagreeing with anyone.
I'm of the opinion that if we ask a question in an open forum, we need to expect people with varied points-of-view.
To bad there is os much of this anti free speech going around.
Did you catch this year's Christmas story? Gender Crossing. It's surprisingly rated G.
It was a simple question about whether to allow children (age not stated) to sit for the sermon in church.
I wasn't disagreeing with anyone.
I'm of the opinion that if we ask a question in an open forum, we need to expect people with varied points-of-view.
When I commented on the post, all I read was the question, then I dropped my comment.
In retrospect, I should have merely typed "Great Post!" and been on my way.
I look a Richard Nixon, a Quaker, and Pat Robertson, a Charismatic Evangelist, just two examples, and it's obvious that the term Christian has a wide and varied definition.
Simply: we cannot make the statement Christians are/do...
I'm going to now make a sweeping statement, which shall be generally accurate.
Pat Robertson and his ilk are End-Timers, based on the Gospel writers John and Paul, and a mess of stuff taken out of context, cherry-picked from the Old Testament. Their Christianity states that Jesus the Christ is coming back, that he shall rule of Israel for a 1,000 years, and then have a final battle with Satan, which Jesus will win. In the 1,000 years, the Jews will have one last chance to accept Jesus as the Messiah.
Kinda takes my breath away.
Simply because I put my pen on the paper, I've put Quakers on the other side of the spectrum. Again, I'm going to make a statement that's only generally true, because many kinds of Quakers exist.
Quakers are generally humanistic. Stress is placed more on what human being do, rather than what God wants. Personal behavior is important. Human rights in matters of anti-slavery, prison reform, and social justice are important.
That's just two barely accurate examples of the differences in Christian schools.
Some Christian groups, like crazy Pat Robertson and his ilk, based on Gospel writers John and Paul, as a matter of their religion, MUST shove their belief down others throats! The Bible, rather their cherry-picked reading of the Bible, tells them to.
I often put my tongue in my cheek and say: "The best thing about Christianity is we have so many of them. With them fighting each other, they don't have time to hunt down and burn the likes of me."
I thought I made a mistake once but when I reconsidered I found I was mistaken. LOL!
I didn't mean to imply Ol' Pat isn't sincere, or doesn't believe what he believes. My personal opinion, where I different from Ol' Pat, is that God would allow 9-11 to happen because God's got his shorts in a bunch about the USofA allowing gays to exist, for example. I DO believe Ol' Pat believes nonsense like that. I also believe it's nonsense, which brings me back to my original point:
"I did a blah blah saying I felt that teaching mythology to children as if it's fact CAN be damaging to kids."
like you i probably would have just moved on as well. with some people its just not worth the effort...
I don't think teaching mythology to kids is harmful per se. You do have to tell them it's mythology and that most of the useful information is metaphorical. I know Jewish kids don't seem to have much trouble with that. Seems to me that Buddhism isn't very different in that respect. I know, a lot of religious groups don't seem to be very strong on the metaphor stuff. :)
Carl Jung defined dogma as a confession of faith meant to dispel all future exploration.
I agree with you about Reform Judaism. I titled one of my books, with my tongue firmly in my cheek, Forever Becoming. No where in the 170,000 words in the book do I explain the title.
I said "Teaching children mythology as if it were fact" CAN be damaging. Okay, I slipped a little irony in there. The people teaching the kids mythology as if it were fact don't know it's mythology.
As one example, you can read what the "Dove Award" people had to say about the novel, "Littluns: And the Book of Darkness" which is posted on the "Littluns" BLOG at http://www.littlunsblog.com See the second TAB at the top of the page for awards and reviews and then scroll down to the detailed “Dove†award review.
Thanks for posting to the Comments Club!
I'm astounded how many views and comments I've gotten. I rarely get more than 20 hits. I have to post an ad for my book with a title like this.
I have a Facebook "Like" button on my Gender Crossing story, which now has 74 unique 'likes.' That's not bad, better than anything I've posted to Gather.
I think Animal Farm.
Indeed, personally, behind the grandiose Gospel story telling, I find a man concerned with personal transformation.
For example, many people are into this "What would Jesus do?"
I have the universal answer.
Jesus would ask: "What are YOU going to do?"
I once gave someone's kid my kids used jeep toy. I decided to buy the kids two new ones and I said I would do so but they had to agree to give the used one to a kid in the neighborhood who didn't have one. Believe it or not after I spent the money... they decided to keep the jeep too. Believe it or not they once had the nerve to say WWJD to me over something else. I think Jesus would have kept his word and given the jeep to another child who would have been thrilled to be like the rest of the kids in the neighborhood.
Ah another "Christian" who judged me. ... their ignorance makes me laugh almost out loud some times.
Unfortunately people hitch their wagons to "Christianity" and think as long as the involve God somehow people can be conned. Personally I don't like the What Would Jesus Do? because I believe you don't have to guess at it... Jesus will guide us if we ask.
Let's get away from Jesus and the Bible for a moment, and just have a look at us, people, in the flesh.
(This is actually secular, made to look like it's not)
The Goddess doesn't demand our love because she already has it.
The Goddess doesn't give us Her love because we already have it.
The Goddess doesn't require our worship because she already has that.
The Goddess is not a lawgiver because we already know right from wrong.
My 'argument' is that we know right from wrong. I don't believe the knowledge is inherent, but we learn what's right from wrong living in a society with people.
I feel one of the Jesus Sayings that's most important, and should be etched in stone, placed over the entrance to every church: Those of you who believe the Realm (kingdom/Heaven) of God belongs to you, will be the first to be cast out into darkness to gnash your teeth and cry bitter tears.
Something else, in the Gospel of Mary Magdalene, after the death of Jesus, the disciples are all "Oh, woe is us! What are we going to do now!?!" Mary steps up and tells them that they didn't get Jesus' message at all, the the Realm (Kingdom/Heaven) of God was within their hearts, and it was now up to them to bring it out, into reality.
I repeat what I said: my examination thus far, Jesus wasn't about world transformation from the top down, that was later Gospel writers, but rather personal transformation.
I guess I didn't make that clear. They new riding toys were Christmas gifts... but I felt it would be nice now that these kids didn't have to share that jeep and had their own "new" rides... for the family to give it to someone who didn't have one... it is a lesson in "sharing". It is sad that these parents would rather have that red jeep sitting in the garage... and deciding to break the agreement... they made with me... than to make another child happy.
I felt double crossed on that one.... and when I was later judged and told.. WWJD, over something else they didn't have all the facts on, well, sorry, That is not going to work on me.. sorry that "tactic" didn't work on me.
You just wrote how you felt and they did not respect it.
It made me think: Then what am I?
And what ever happened to finding a purpose and being a good person? That's what I've done.