Twenty Occupy Atlanta demonstrators were arrested early Sunday morning, when they refused to disperse after an 11PM curfew. In a scene that has become common in recent weeks, police in riot gear were forced to intervene when the Occupy group failed to act in an orderly fashion. As most of the group was leaving Woodruff Park, they began to pour into Peachtree Street. Several people ignored the order from police to remain on the sidewalks and were subsequently arrested.
The protesters continued to shout at the officers, with chants such as, "Shame! Shame!" and "What about your pensions?" Others yelled more insulting things like, "Put the pigs back in their sty, we the people occupy."
Occupy Atlanta has also incurred earlier arrests. On Oct. 26, more than 50 people who were violating a city ordinance by staying in the park after closing, were arrested.
La'die Mansfield, 29, a spokeswoman for Occupy Atlanta, said the police used "unnecessary force" and stressed that the group would continue to organize and to protest what they see as a system that promotes an unequal distribution of wealth. "Today is a sad day for us. It's almost like we're seeing a little bit of what happened in Oakland here, not to the extent," she said. "Today was just a reminder of the system that we have, the corrupt system."
The Occupy movement, which initially seemed to begin with sincere and peaceful protestors, has rapidly move toward a more radical and increasingly violent agenda. The group appears to have been infiltrated with far-left "revolutionaries", who are very vocal at destroying the core principles that have formed the basis for our nation. The re-distribution of wealth is a subject that President Obama has raised since his days on the 2008 campaign trail. He has also voiced support for the Occupy movement, of which Occupy Atlanta represents one regional segment.
Free speech is a fundamental, American ideal. These groups certainly have the right to voice their opinions and ideas. At the same time, it is disturbing that the protestors also seem fixed on an extreme socialist agenda. Many of the "wealthy" Americans have worked hard for what they have achieved. In this era of entitlements, where ideologically based government programs have grown beyond economic safety nets for the poor to more directly become re-distributive policies, it's difficult to imagine how much more could be done to satisfy groups such as Occupy Atlanta. As our national debt swells to $15 trillion and the economic crisis worsens, there simply is no more money to spend - unless we borrow more from China.
Photo source: Flickr
Day 50 at the Occupy Wall Street protest in New York (November 5, 2011)
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Comments: 98
I understood this to be a protest against speding our tax dollars, government waste, fraud, abuse among other things, so now what?
keep it real, already, OBAMAnation is just that a fluke a flaw a disaster . .. you need A REALITY CHECK . . . ASAP
How unamerican.
Our country was founded on the very same principles as OWS is exhibiting.
They didnt leave so what? How is that violent? Violence is a tp member bringing a pitchfork to a city council meeting and jabbing it at people.
that is exactly my point, I always understood from start of OCCUPY movement it was a PEACEFUL movement, I don't know how it went from PEACE or violence . . . that was my exact point, period!
I never doubted (though I hoped I was wrong) I never doubted it would happen this way.
Got a reference address, video, news report, arrest report? Not sarcastic, just asking 'cause I'd like to see it.
I am pretty sure you are totally correct.
Del Nerkez Nov 6, 2011, 9:44pm EST
pretty sure america was not founded on the ideals of destroying property (public and private), intentional intimidation of citizens homes, or abusing the old and infirmed.
President Obama told ABC News Monday that he does not regret touting the solar company Solyndra as a model of his jobs program, or loaning $535 million in taxpayer money to the company before it declared bankruptcy.
see video clip:
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/obama-solyndra-hindsight-2020/story?id=14656360
Forget the name calling. We needs jobs and health care. We need for Big Business to STOP buying our congressmen and sending our jobs overseas. We all need to stand up and say we want an America tht puts people first and that no longer considers itself the police officer of the rest of the world.
Violence is wrong, bus so is oppression. Too many people are hateful. Look at the responses above. Anger, accusations, name calling. How far does that get any of us to solving our problems?
show the video
name the assalant you allege was in fact a "OCCUPY" protestor
the newest informtion is also CRIMINALS who are NOT ' OCCUPY ' participants are using the movement to commit crimes, they may or may not be ' OCCUPY ' members it's hard to say there is no ' OCCUPY ' membership year to date to confirm or deny what this was all about further more why did the media conceal who the assalant is ?
Keep in mind the assalants as wells as OCCUPY members are both DEMOCRATS , REPUBLICANS , AND INDEPENDENTS . . .
there is a difference between 'name calling' (such as calling someone a moron), and defining the political leanings of a group, or individual.
obama for example - two statements he himself made. one that he sought out the marxist, and socialist teqachers and friends - qand two, that you would know him by the people he associates himself with.
calling him a socialist, is not 'name-calling' is is his own slef-description of his political and economic agendas.
it is also supported fully by each and every one of his actions, and attempted actions.
http://dailycaller.com/2011/11/05/chaos-video/
Then the OWS protesters are seen bitching because some guy ran over two protesters blocking the street. The police let the man go. Good for him. He should have backed up over them also.
That said, I'm sure it was an accident for whatever reason - I mean really, the first thing most of us were taught on venturing outside was NOT to play in the middle of the street because it's dangerous and an accident could happen.
But even if it was not an accident per se and the driver deliberately played the OWS game of chicken (who will swerve first?) and the OWS members lost, it's quite possible the people in the car were not let go ...(as it seems in the video), it's quite possible the police know exactly who they are having taken a name and address and intended, or still intend to talk to the driver at a safer, saner, quieter place and time.
Orrr ... I just ran across this page. I wonder if it went down more (or exactly) like this than anything else? Here is an excerpt:Hmmm... sounds like it wasn't a driver error but a miscalculation and arrogance on the ows protester's part.
Eamon W. (So be it) Nov 7, 2011, 12:14am EST
Here's a link to the OWS knocking one woman over and another down the stairs:
http://dailycaller.com/2011/11/05/chaos-video/
Then the OWS protesters are seen bitching because some guy ran over two protesters blocking the street. The police let the man go. Good for him. He should have backed up over them also.
Ya hear a protester saying 'get your hands off me' (as if he was the one being victimized) but then it becomes obvious he and some others were blocking the man's way and all the big guy did was move through them (they were deliberately pushing up against the man and crowding him, trying to block his way --- the way my cat does when she wants attention and I'm heading for the kitchen) ... and when he got through, he let go of the guy's arm.
It's funny to watch as he moves through them with no problem ... but I bet they reported it as if he had assaulted them.
Cute +sheesh+
Some facts might provide support for this assertion. Oh wait, no facts.
I have a very valid concern, according to news releases for months on end since the " OCCUPY ' movement begans its members are REPUBLICANS, DEMOCRATS, INDEPENDENTS can anyone confirm otherwise?
How exaclty is this so called " OCCUPY '' movement suppose to help the Democrat party if it is in fact true that VICE PRESIDEN BIDEN is the financial support backing the " OCCUPY ' movement I'm not understaning the concept, to me its damming and dangerous move, I don't see the benefit to DEMOCRATS if in fact VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN is the financial support behind this " OCCUPY ' MOVEMENT?
THE ' OCCUPY ' MOVEMENT IS REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRAT AND INDEPENDENT
HERE IS THE STORY AND THE LINK AND THE VIDEO DATING OCTOBER
WASHINGTON -- A new Quinnipiac University poll finds New Yorkers overwhelmingly back the Occupy Wall Street protesters, and even Republicans think they should be allowed to continue their demonstrations.
New York City voters agree with the views of the Occupy Wall Street movement by a nearly three-to-one margin; 67 percent agree with the protesters' views and 23 percent disagree, according to the Quinnipiac poll.
The Quinnipiac poll, released Monday, surveyed people living within the New York City area. Quinnipiac called both landlines and cell phones from Oct. 12 to 16.
Although a majority of Republicans don't agree with the protesters' views, at least seven out of 10 say it's fine for them to protest.
"New Yorkers, even Republicans, back the Wall Street protesters on at least two things they’re talking about, a get-tough attitude toward banks and Wall Street and continuation of the state’s 'Millionaire’s Tax,'" said Maurice Carroll, director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute, in a release.
Notably, Republicans, Democrats and Independents alike supported the government imposing tougher regulations on banks and Wall Street firms, as well as imposing the so-called "Millionare's Tax."
"Critics complain that no one can figure out what the protesters are protesting," Carroll added. "But seven out of 10 New Yorkers say they understand and most agree with the anti-Wall Street views of the protesters."
New Yorkers were split on how the police have handled the situation, as videos circulating the internet -- and documented in HuffPost's liveblog of the protests -- show police using violent means against the protesters.
When asked who was the most responsible for the current state of the economy -- part of what has fueled the protesters -- New Yorkers put the blame on George W. Bush: 37 percent of New York City voters blame the administration of the former president; 21 percent blame Wall Street and financial institutions; 18 percent blame Congress; and 11 percent blame President Barack Obama.
And although a majority of New Yorkers supported increasing taxes on the wealthy, the poll found more support among voters over the age of 35 than in younger voters for higher taxes for rich folks.
Last week, a TIME magazine poll found a majority of Americans supported the Occupy Wall Street movement. The Occupy movement was also found to be significantly more popular than the Tea Party.
the link
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/17/poll-new-yorkers-back-occupy-wallst_n_1016234.html
Time Poll Oct 9-10:
IN THE PAST FEW DAYS, A GROUP OF PROTESTORS HAS BEEN GATHERING ON WALL STREET IN NEW YORK CITY AND SOME OTHER CITIES TO PROTEST POLICIES WHICH THEY SAY FAVOR THE RICH, THE GOVERNMENT’S BANK BAILOUT, AND THE INFLUENCE OF MONEY IN OUR POLITICAL SYSTEM. IS YOUR OPINION OF THESE PROTESTS VERY FAVORABLE, SOMEWHAT FAVORABLE, SOMEWHAT UNFAVORABLE, VERY UNFAVORABLE, OR DON’T YOU KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT THE PROTESTS TO HAVE AN OPINION?
VERY FAVORABLE 25%
SOMEWHAT FAVORABLE 29%
SOMEWHAT UNFAVORABLE 10%
VERY UNFAVORABLE 13%
DON’T KNOW ENOUGH 23%
NO ANSWER/DON’T KNOW 1%
Quinnipiac Poll Nov 3:
Is your opinion of the Occupy Wall Street Movement favorable, unfavorable or haven't you heard enough about it?
30% Favorable
39% Unfavorable
30% Haven't heard enough
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/11/occupy-dc-protesters-push-78-year-old-woman-down-cement-stairs-at-afp-conference-video/
They do look injured ... they look frail so they probably are still feeling some aches and pains ... might even have lingering bruises or worse. And probably was done deliberately by someone who never looked back; as you can see in something that happens in this video at around 4:00-4:05 with a much different type of person.
A much bigger robust person. But this person did not get knocked down. However, the technique you see the ows using on the big guy probably took it's toll on the two older women.
Grumpy Gus Nov 6, 2011, 9:59pm EST
Daily Caller posted video of two women who were knocked down by the Occupy DC protesters outside the conservative conference dinner. Dolores is the second woman being helped up in the video. Both women look injured.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/11/occupy-dc-protesters-push-78-year-old-woman-down-cement-stairs-at-afp-conference-video/
They suck up to the rich and their badge-wearing, club-swinging thugs, alternately spewing hate and wringing their hands and bawling like a bunch of helpless crybabies. They slouch, drooling and glassy-eyed, in their pews and their recliners waiting to be told what to think, paralyzed by fear and the crushing weight of their own dependence and incompetence.
Let's get the discussion back on track please.
From
We keep accusing each other of crimes with no proof
I could not verify the information about this 78 year old woman.
Are there pictures or witnesses?
To
This is not about videos or about people pushing each other....Let's get the discussion back on track please.
A little less ideology might go a long way toward more consistent messaging.
They react the same way when they hear about soldiers in the US Army chopping off the fingers of dead Iraqis to keep as souvenirs, or about a Saudi Arabian executioner chopping off the heads of people accused of homosexuality, adultery and witchcraft.
They whine about the government stealing their money but at the same time expose their fetish for government power and violence. They nod in torpid acquiescence as their favorite candidates proclaim that they've been chosen by GOD to ascend to their rightful positions of dominance and control over the permanently opiated masses.
Then they grin stupidly as they stick their Burmese-made flag pins onto their food-stained PROUD PATRIOT T-shirt, pick up their TEABAG THE KENYON sign and join a half a dozen geriatrics and three klansmen who left their sheets at home at a rally to TAKE THEIR COUNTRY BACK.
Which (as I have noted previously) results in the fact that almost any "occupy" city we talk about, the reports coming out of the "Occupy" movement are nearly the same . . . 12 arrests here, 8 arrrests there, 700 more arrests someplace else, 200 arrests in other places. Ahhh... but that was the cops fault ...
Then molotov cocktails and other violence erupted in Oakland. Ahhh that's right, that wasn't the OWS fault either; it was someone else, some other group that infiltrated them making them look bad ...
It's always someone else making them look bad ... and yet the arrests continue as in Atlanta where (at least) 20 more were arrested and now we have 2 old women were knocked down for one reason and another. But I guess that was their own fault for being where OWS was going.
However in the video Eamon provided (http://dailycaller.com/2011/11/05/chaos-video/), we see how it probably happened (at time stamp 4:00-4:05) - by the deliberate and premeditated "crowding" and "blocking" technique used by OWS.
It didn't work for the big guy, but apparently did the job it was meant to do on two older women. Yeah, these are the good guys ... in bizarro world, that is.
Sorry, soon someone will have to take responsibility or admit to themselves that it's they who make themselves look bad and they themselves who do the things that get them arrested.
The time is coming when people will be held responsible for their role in allowing and even encouraging government thugs to use violence and intimidation to silence peaceful protesters and critics of the oligarchs.
Every empire crumbles to dust. It's inevitable.
I personally say that violence of any kind is wrong and an arrest does not have to be violent, unless the person who is being arrested is resisting. It is OWS who is committing this violence actively or passively, it does not matter. But I would not expect an anarchist to admit that. And I would not expect you to respect the constitution or the laws of this land. But it is the free people of this wonderful country that respect the constitution and the rule of law and not bureaucrat that wheeled power like a dictator.
The OWS is right to protest against the corporations, which are malignant, evil creations of government, but they will ultimately fail if they don't fight against the existence of government itself. No government will ever create laws that apply to everyone equally because they will always favor the government itself. Government=slavery.
I don't respect any constitution or any other document that outlines a system of slavery and then calls itself law. I have no respect for people who revel in their slavery while calling themselves free.
You guys like percentages, 99% of the corporations in the country were not created by the government, and were created only by an entrepreneur.
The intent of the founding fathers was to reduce the risk or eliminate the chance of tyranny within these boarders. With that said, the document has been twisted to do things that were never intended, thus it is my belief that if we were willing revert back to the constitution as the founders had intended, freedom would return to the people where it belongs.
Where does our constitution outline slavery?
Government is slavery. The absence of government is anarchy. Anarchy is freedom.
Come to my door and "Ask for help" and I will teach you to be self reliant.
Come to my door and threaten my life or the life of my family and I will shoot you.
Where has Anarchy ever worked for any time in world history?
Useful idiot!
Government is slavery. Begging and even fighting to remain enslaved is insanity.
Clearly I learned something different in my history class.
I also learned:
With no government, you will have no law enforcement. With no law enforcement, you will have no laws. With no laws you will have chaos.
“Useful idiot!”
http://www.michiganafp.com/2011/11/78-year-old-woman-taken-to-emergency-room-after-being-pushed-down-stairs-by-occupy-protestors/
You are wrong 2012. She went down because of the crowding and pushing of the ows on the people who were legitimately there trying to get out and go home.
Granted, the man in the suit is behind the lady, but it was not his fault that she went down. In any case there is at least one other older women who succumbed also to the crowding and pushing of the ows at the top of the stairs.
Plus there is the guy at around 3:57 in this version of the same video. What the ows do to him (or try to do lol) is probably much the same as happened to the older, more frail ladies. What happened to the ladies is just not as clearly seen by the videographer as ows technique on display with the big guy.
It is time to bring the world under some kind of control ... that means democratic control, and that means everyone is going to have to give a little, and if the US wants to lead we have to have an open explicit system for leading fairly ... no more US dominates the world selfishly for the benefit of a few. If we dump our military or our policeman of the world role the military people are going to go somewhere and do something, better we have them employed and working on on something.
But I go agree that the current money run corrupt government, media and industry that we have now has to go. Huge instabiity is possible, so rather than that happening the US government is going to have to fold, and the more graceful that folding and the more slow and gentle the pressure to bear is brought the easier this will happen.
I think people all over the world are sick of the lordly abuses of the very rich, and the more we learn and wake up the less we can objectively see that they deserve in anyway their special place.
They have encircled the world like an anaconda and steadily been squeezing the life out of millions of people, and they damn well need to stop, and we all damn well better change our attitudes to focusing on stomping people to picking them up and helping them.
It is only a small minority of people who want things to get really ugly, and you can see by their writing they are usually very ugly people ... they are loud, but they will be drowned out eventually by the rising voices of more and more Americans who are demanding the corporate military junta step down all over the world for good.
I glean, from your comments, a forcefully critical call for a dramatic overhaul....even a global transfrmation.....
At the risk of revealing my own cynicism (as if that negativity isn't already recognized by those few, unfortunates who have made the painful choice to read my past Gather comments), I simply do not believe that we can change successfully.
The alteration requires a radical transformation in Consciousness--and the problems and the conflicts of the world--I respectfully believe--are too legion and too intractable to repair, effectively:
Kashmir
The West Bank, Gaza, Hamas, and the IDF
Hezbollah
Euro Crisis
African Famine
Potential Pandemics
Water Shortages
Depletion of Oil Reserves
Natural Disasters
The US Economy in Ongoing Crisis
Global Warming
World Population increasing
Possible Continued Rise in Islamic Fundamentalism
Possible Reemergence of Increased Radical Right Political Activism and, therefore.....Possible resurgence of Fascism
Possible Civil War in Iraq, in the next few years
Chechnya; the PKK and Turkey; the Haqqani Network in Afghanistan; the ISI in Pakistan; the Mexican/Columbian Drug Cartels;
WMD portability//nuclear/germ warfare/terrorism of infrastructure
Iran's nuclear capability and Israel's nuclear capability
Israel's military strikes at Iran's nuclear installations, triggering either a war in the Middle East or a Global nuclear war
Assad going out in a blaze of glory, by launching chemical-dipped missiles
at Israel
Growing majority of Palestinians vs Israelis
Israel's policy of increasing settlements and claiming sovereignty over East Jerusalem
The threat to Taiwan and a possible SuperPower showdown
North Korea's military reach onto US territory, via state-of-the-art nuclear missile technology
Ongoing potential conflict, between the 2 Koreas.
The collapse of North Korea and its attendant, desperate measures, subsequent to that collapse
Global Digital Terrorism
Nuclear Power//Power Grid//Major Infrastructure Accidents
And, FINALLY, and MOST importantly:
HERMAN CAIN'S INABILITY TO ADMIT CHAUVINISTIC FAULT
I'm sure I've left something out....
away when I put in a quick comment below it? :-(
I will respond later ...
Could it also be that we are not a democracy thus it does not need to be fixed and that there is not enough money in our GDP to fix poverty using socialism.
Thus you will never be able to redistribute the country’s wealth in order to do as you suggest. However Capitalism lifts more people out of poverty than any other economic or government structure. So why not get government out of the way and let free people do what comes naturally, they work, feed them self’s, buy cars, houses and big TV's. Or we can all quit and wait for the government to give us what it thinks is our due.
I agree that some power mongers are pushing us and that it needs to stop. But what if they are pushing us to create a one world government, just so they can then take it over?
The best friend to freedom is decentralized authority. That is how the US has survived as long as it has. The states were to have all the power and authority and the federal government was only to be a lose glue to get the states interact together, using a common currency and military to defend the boarder.
Over time you can see how the constitution has changed to centralize authority within the federal government, you can also see that our freedom has for the most part decreased, with some rare exceptions like equality in voting and so on...
With that said you should also see that a one world government democracy, republic or otherwise may not get you what you expect.
The best friend of a tyrant is centralized authority, where no one has the right or authority to question the guy at the top, or else!
> need to be fixed and that there is not enough money in our
> GDP to fix poverty using socialism.
Clark, no, it could not be that.
More specifically, we are not a democracy, in fact, I do nor
really believe in democracy, I think that the benign
paternalism idea makes more sense. Democracy does
not really work, but that does not remove the responsibility
to provide sincere representation of every person -
specifically a generic philosophical person, as in the
Constitution's mentioned inalienable rights - and more.
About the money question, it is easy and evil to sit back
and rationalize reasons for not doing things that are
right and morally demanded in the treatment of other
people. Not enough money, it will not work, they will
be ungrateful, they are the wrong kind of people to
help ... and on and on.
The basics of this comes from the failings of
individual people. It is the reason we have laws
that are written down and maintained as precedent
and discussed in the framework of philosophy, morality,
etc - and the US in particular has had a deep streak of
this historically ... the idea that we have Constitutional
rights but that they did not apply to men who were
slaves right from the start, or the native people who
lived here.
No, the main problem with America is that we rationalize
our own greed and the result of that is virtual genocide
and some even excuse that as Darwinism of a sort -
saying it is right the weak should perish ... we have turned
genocide into a religion based on greed.
Until we view our country more a "family" where we
would not longer let a member of the family die because
we thought they were weak or not pulling their own
weight or we just did not like them we will fail to
live up to our stated ideals and we will be psychotic
and schizophrenic as a nation - and not suited for leaded
the work or ignoring criticism of us from lesser countries.
One thing that made a big impression on me was a
documentary about health care called "Sick Around
The World". Looking at the different health care systems
the documentary asked why do all other developed
countries have universal health care and the US does
not? The answer was that all the other countries
started from the starting point of - let's provide health
care to all our people because it should be a right - and
they proceeded from there.
It is very telling that we do not see or admit clearly
that as a nation we refuse to do this, yet we continue
to pretend we have leadership and moral authority,
at least that is based on something more than
military might. This makes the US appear to be the
new fascist power in the world - albeit more benign than
the original fascists of old, but certainly behaving in an
ends justifies the means only money matters way -
the US has become more and more shameless in the
way we seek what we want and rationalize it as good
for everyone to the point that it is an absurdity.
The scare tactic of a one-world government is another thoughtless fear-based accusation. the only time people started to get scared about the Federal government ... odd that it has been coincident with things like freeing the slaves which caused the civil war, or civil rights which caused this transparent and full of crap self-righeous BS of fear of the central government, government is bad, and all this money is speech, it is all to prevent fullfillment of the orginal goals of America and the American dream of a classless representative democracy that gave the maximum rights to everyone.
Now we justify that by focusing on criminals or undesirable, like Reagan and his welfare queen myth -but it is a continuation of the status quo ala money and power that keeps both money and power in the hands of the few.
The best friend of a tyrant? Your arguments are really only weak lies to make people afraid of doing the right thing, and feeling like they will all lose and that criminals will win. So you end up supporting a centralized authority of criminals that you refuse to acknowledge. That's pretty sad Clark.
rights but that they did not apply to men who were
slaves right from the start, or the native people who
lived here.”
Humans are flawed and we had to learn that “All men were created equal”, meant “All men” and not just some. Thankfully our founders had the wisdom to create a constitution that can be amended and in this case the issues were fixed. Now we have the blessings of a country where anyone can do just about anything. Not perfect, but working on it. That does not mean we can do an end run around that constitution when it is inconvenient, and that when it needs to be changed, that we still can create amendments when needed.
“genocide”, The closest thing we have to genocide in this country is how we treat our unborn. I would agree with you on that. I know people who have been waiting to adopt for months and years. Yet we continue, for what? A child can be such a blessing in the correct home even if it is not hour home.
But sadly that is not what you intended. See comments above.
“why do all other developed
countries have universal health care and the US does
not?” “it should be a right”
Sounds nice, would love to have it. I would love to have it for everyone in the country. I would love it to be full, comprehensive, unrestricted, without limits coverage for everyone. If I don’t want to trim my toe nails or cut my hair, I should be able to go to the doctor and get a cut. If I have a cold, or a slight head ache, I should be able to go get a pill to fix the problem or the symptom 24 hours a day regardless of where I am and without waiting in line. Sounds good right? Just that kind of coverage would bankrupt this country in a very short period of time. There is not enough money in our GDP to cover that kind of coverage for everyone. So then the question is what services do you cut out of the policy and how much of our GDP would be left to feed us, if food is not covered? If you must restrict it in any way, is it a right?
Thus no other country has a universal health care system that is a right?
In 200 years we may have figured out how to tap the sun, convert energy into matter and our unlimited wants / limited resource problem would be fixed. Until then we can’t afford your “Right”. Under the new plan the average policy will be cut greatly. Yes a small percentage of the uncovered people will now have insurance (it would technically not be insurance at that point). In the end, if everyone in the country lives 2 years less because some cancer treatments are no longer covered, but half of those people who were uncovered, now can go in and have a cold looked at, is it worth it?
The solution is simple for this and for most things. It is called “Skin in the game”. If you have to buy it, you will keep costs low. Look at car insurance, you can increase your deductible to $1000 and when you bump your car and chip the paint, are you going to pay the $1000 or pick up some touchup paint yourself? Most people would just live with it… But when you total the car in a storm, the $1000 is worth it… In the end, you are using the insurance as it was intended, Emergencies and Catastrophic claims. The solution is not to put the whole industry under the control of the government who will pick and choose winners and losers. The simplest fix would be to get health insurance out of the hands of the employer and give responsibility and freedom back to the consumer. That would be a Right we could better afford and would cover more people. Heck you could make my health insurance a deductible of $1000. My premium would be so cheap compared to what my employer is paying for me now. But you suggest $1000 deducible when you are middle aged, then you don’t need it. You could also have policies where you bank it while you are middle aged and use it when you are old like some life insurance policies. But those are real solutions that forces personal responsibility and no one wants that.
In the end we as a society do more for everyone than anywhere else and we could do more if the government would stay out of the way.
Bruce, you are the one that advocates government solutions, that is socialistic. I do not say that to trigger an emotional response, but to call it as I see it. If you were to promote redistribution of wealth, and the over through of the rich, I would call that Marxist. Because that is what it is.
As for criminals, well point out the crime and the law and let’s get to work prosecuting them. What is to say? But I really don’t think that is good enough for you. I believe you are talking about the people who are following the letter of the law but have done some things that hurt people. That is the rub. They have hurt you and you can’t point to a law? Not much you can do now, that is why we need laws and policies that are based on virtue and enforce by those with virtue. To let another second go by without doing so, allows more to be hurt. We must fix the laws to encourage personal responsibility (thus given freedom back to the people and decreasing dependence on the government)
Clark, I prefer scientific and logical solutions. The so-called free market is chaotic, and there is a place for chaos in terms of creating progress and showing the weakness is any steady state solution man can create.
Our government, our Constitution is old, broken and useless. Not emotionally, it's main power is inspirational, but it is the oldest Constitjution in the world and contains the remnants of really nasty stuff - nasty stuff that continues to this day.
But getting back to science and logic. Government is the only place where it's possible to measure things. I said possible, I did not say that government tells us the truth.
The way I see it our government which is supposed to be representative of us all is broken, taken over, or should I say still controlled by the same people, corporations who more or less controlled it back when the Constitution was written, and who have used the law not to improve our government over time, but to use it as a prison to imprison Americans. It has done that using the monetary system and capitalism.
Sure, along the way some other people have joined the 1%, but there are real pre-requisites for that.
It's time to step back and look clearly at the problems we have, and while government corruption is a problem, the existence or scope of government is not. Government can be fixed - democratically, large private powers are beyond control, particularly when they go global.
The trick to understanding what is going on in the US and the world is to understand the forces at work. The forces against government always trace back to people like the Koch brothers, who want to control more and have more for themselves - that is the main problem we face - it is called fascism.
On the contrary, socialism, or the negative side of socialism, ie. the abuse of power by the masses, is not and has never been a problem in the US. We have never had a French revolution or Russian revolution where aristocrats or the rich were killed in the street, in fact over and over when we tweak our country so that is serves everyone, the rich are admired and respected.
We tweaked the country correctly about the time of WWII and FDR, and as we have backslid into the same abuses we had in the time right before leading up to the depression we have the same problems, and the solution is the same.
I know you will whine, complain, make up specious arguments, call me names, blame government, always coming back at me with the same words and slogans to defend what does not work and what does not make sense. I have found it amazing just how powerful the repetition of bullcrap has gotten in thie country. The end result that it does not work. It always leads us to the same place, and it has led us so that we are now losing and behind most of the rest of the world as we only continue this country to exist to serve the top 1%.
There will always be some people on the edge. However, the Occupy Wall Street message is becoming clearer - and gaining in popularity, as evidenced by the recent massive relocation of bank deposits/accounts to credit unions.
I support the OWS movement ... but can you enlighten me
as to what I am supporting because it's not so clear to me? ;-)
We had a peaceful one in our town. Then again only 3 ows showed up. Makes a difference when ya don't have a mob standing with you.
these people prove they do not know what shame is.
good article.
Way Of Wisdom ~ Nov 9, 2011, 2:03pm EST
"Shame! Shame!"
these people prove they do not know what shame is.
good article.