I respect the birthers: really I do. For those who don't know (most Canadians follow American politics, but this is a rather obscure issue) birthers are people who care intensely about whether or not President Obama is a naturally (born) citizen of the U.S. This is part of their Constitution, and whether I agree with it or not, it is there. It is part of American Law. The president must be a natural citizen: born in its territory. This issue started up some years ago, as it had for several presidential candidates: Chester Arthur, Barry Goldwater and John McCain among them. In the case of Mr. Obama, proof was delivered to the courts that decided such matters as his capacity to run for president, and they approved. This was well before the 2008 election: but the court of public opinion was not as easily assuaged. Doubt continued to ripple: and on June 12 of that year, still before the election, an image was released of his short form birth certificate to the public. That should have sufficed: it was not just any image, but an image approved by the hospital where he was born. Person after person testified to its legitimacy. (In April 2011 the long form was also released: this was "over the top" in my opinion.)Â
So far this is good, and I understand: but the birthers were wrong. Proof had been generated and testified. Most understood, and took different tactics to express their frustration against the African American president. Sure some people didn't believe it: but they won't, period. They have already made up their minds. This is where we branch: from the birthers I respect, who were intent on making sure that the Constitution was followed, to those I don't, who simply want an excuse to create trouble: and in fact are discriminating against anyone who was not born of a white family whose parents never left American soil. They do not doubt: they are convinced. Wrongly.
This small sect of birthers: the wacky birthers, are the ones I can do without. They have gone overboard in trying to generate doubt on this issue, solely because they do not like the president. Rather than accept him as their leader (as they demanded Democrats do when Bush was their president... even though he did not win the popular vote... hmm which president was less legitimate?) Because the fact is: he is their leader. If... if... if... it was discovered tomorrow that Mr. Obama was not born in the U.S., he would still have to be removed from office. If... if... if... it is ever found that this birth certificate is not the real one, and he was born in some other land of Nod: it will not mean that he was not president for these years. He is their leader, whether they like it or not. They might hope to impeach him tomorrow, but they can't change that fact today.
And that is why I have so little respect for the birthers in the military who have refused to serve because they “doubt†his legitimacy as president (Salon, 2011; Associated Press, 2011). He is still their leader now, and they have still sworn an oath to follow him. Period. Now it's one thing if he asks them to do something immoral: like killing children or invading a country that has not actively shown aggression toward the U.S. Those are both examples of moral difficulties where they would be violating their humanity by killing defenceless people simply because they've been ordered to. That I can understand, and even support.
But people who refuse to serve their oath because they “doubt†Mr. Obama's legal status at his birth, in spite of dozens of experts testifying to that fact: that is just arrogance. One thing soldiers cannot have is arrogance like that before their leadership. Especially if they do this publicly, they deserve to be discharged. I wouldn't trust them on the battlefield. No matter what they've done in the past, part of a soldier's mandate is to follow his leadership: no matter what the beliefs of that leadership. The military does not break up and reform every four years, or every time a president changes. They have to follow whoever is put in that position by the people of the country. If he or she is lucky, it is the president they voted for. If he or she is not, they have to bite the bullet.
Now before I get any comments about not being a soldier and not being able to relate: I can. I work for the Ontario Ministry of the Environment, and I have to follow whoever is elected by the province to lead. I am a public servant... not that far from a soldier (except I probably won't shoot anyone). We are having a provincial election in just a few months, and until recently it looked like our conservative party might be poised to take control of the government. This would potentially mean big changes in my workplace. I work for the ministry not because of the salary (ha!), but because I believe we are doing good things for the environment. If the conservatives are elected, I fear that some of those “good things†might be brushed away in favour of budget cuts. However, that is “Ian the private citizen†talking, not “Ian the ministry employeeâ€. I would be wrong to use my capacity as a ministry employee to undermine their leadership, as these soldiers are doing with the President. They are not “courageousâ€, as some have called them. They are the definition of traitors: putting their own opinion above the Commander they have sworn to serve.















Comments: 48
Ironically, Abraham Lincoln faced the same sort of bigotry when he was elected. And the South started the Civil War. Just as they are trying to do today.
The soldier is a disgrace to the military and should be court-martialed and dishonorably discharged.
In the case of legislation, politics and international relations, all you've got are "opinions". In these cases, it makes a great deal of difference whether you choose a good "opinion" or a bad one. And which one you choose is at least as telling about yourself as it is about the situation.
Yes, those based on facts are worth more than those based on lies and bigotry.
I see you and I are of the very same mind. I used that very same line of reasoning twice in other threads.
In precedents set in my country and the U.K. when it is discovered that the person elected or appointed was ineligible at the time of the appointment, that person's office, the actions and decisions made as the holder of that office all remain valid and legally enforceable. The law distinguishes between the person and the office. The person being ineligible does not invalidate the decision or actions made while he/she was the occupant of that office.
However, if this were true (and I doubt it) it would be a first, as far as I know, in the country. I know of no other president (or other politician, for that matter) whose past work is rendered "null and void" no matter how serious an offence they have committed. So it would have to be documented somewhere. I assume, Mari and JJ, that you simply forgot to reference such an outlandish claim? Can you therefore provide the legal precedence for this? I understand that he would be able to be impeached, and that would be quite right. But can you tell me where the years of Mr. Obama's work can be declared invalid if he is found not to be valid to run as president?
Norris was always right with Jesus Christ:
Are you folks?
Please find in the Bible
Blessed are the bigots
Blessed are the sore losers
Blessed are the liars
Sorry the Birthers are not right with Jesus Christ
You have a Blessed Day.
He was born of parents living abroad in the military and through a congress was affirmed to have all the rights and privledges of a natural born citizen.
The fact is after almost 3 years we still have a bunch of sore losers. And as so pointedly pointed out by this article, they are still undermining Obama's authority and negatively affect our power around the world and to help out folks and our nation recover. The Birther Folks are doing the work of the devil or at best seditionists. I am tired of them hurting my country and our nation, time to quash this bunch of sore losers and bigots and call them as they are followers of the devil to shun them.
Mr. Miles if you have read the New Testament you would know where I get the authority to ask: Are you Right with Jesus Christ? Maybe you aught to read the BIBLE starting with Matthew 5. If you have read my posts you would know I have used Matthew 5.
Also, Mr Miles please read my article again. The folks ended the Depression by raising the Capital Gains Tax which got the money flowing. The Wealthy were sitting around like vultures back then too, but men like FDR and George Norris knew a better way. USE IT or LOSE IT.
Actually there is no legal definition, either in statute or case law, of the phrase "natural born citizen" used in the Constitution. US law does define naturalized citizen vs. citizen by birth. Being born on US soil is not a necessary requirement for being a citizen by birth. In some cases it's sufficient but if one or more parents are US citizens the place of birth doesn't matter.
One of the more bizarre aspects of the birther controversy is the various definitions of "natural born citizen" that people put forth as having the force of law. Not all of them, even among birthers, are in agreement.
Since Obama was born is Hawaii, this is a moot point. Birthers are nothing but brainless bigots.
As to the latest soldier in question, I read earlier today that he was already in the process of being discharged for other reasons. It seems to me it may be with that going on, he figured he had nothing to lose by bringing the President into the fray?
You are speaking of a very intricate balance of words. Citizenship is conferred just for being born on American soil. Obama is a citizen from the moment of his birth, due to the place of his birth: in Hawaii. This is enough for most people... and unless challenged at the Supreme Court (the proper channel) should be enough for anyone. From About.com:
But among Constitutional scholars the distinction between "natural born" and "native born" is not universally accepted as a crucial one. Short of a Supreme Court decision or legislative statute settling the matter, it remains but one way of interpreting a longstanding legal ambiguity concerning the eligibility clause.
If both parents are American, it is clear. If only one is American... not so much. However, Mr. Obama has been American from the moment of his birth.
It can be interpretted either way. To insist that the interpretation falls one way illustrates that there are other reasons for not wanting him president: such as the fact that he is, to quote another comment, "an uppity black guy".
Andrew Jackson (1829-1837) is the only president born of two immigrants, both Irish.
Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809), whose mother was born in England,
James Buchanan (1857-1861) and Chester Arthur (1881-1885), both of whom had Irish fathers,
Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921) whose mother was born in England.
Herbert Hoover (1929-1933),mother were born respectively Canada.
False.
This is why we disagree.
No, we disagree because some of us rely on facts and you prefer to make things up.
Obama's father was a British subject of Kenya.
Obama's father was born in Kenya, which at the time was a British colony.
I believe he was here to go to college.
You believe? It's pretty easy to look such facts up.
His mother was a citizen of Hawaii.
His mother was born in Kansas and lived many places in her life. She was living in Hawaii when her son Barack Obama, our current President, was born there.
I checked the dates and Hawaii was a state at the time of his birth.
Yes it was. Cased closed.
But you cannot change his father's citizenship.
Actually, you can. When Kenya got is independence from Britain Obama's father officially became Kenyan.
By the way, people change citizenship all the time.
Oh, and it is irrelevant. Because the 14th Amendment to the Constitution says that all persons born in the USA are US citizens.
All of this, of course, is old news. There is really no excuse for remaining so ignorant.
Until that passion goes overboard into just plain nutso and unreasonable.
You Have a Blessed evening