There’s a video on You Tube that’s making the rounds with such comments as “this will knock your socks off.†I’ve received it twice and, indeed, having looked it over, my socks are still among the missing. The video concerns the healthcare reform act that was passed last year and it explains exactly why so many people derisively call it “Obamacare.â€
The reason, of course, is that the people that have become so influenced apparently believe whatever they hear without questioning or challenging the information.
The video in question is of particular interest because it is a classic treatise that contains, in one place, most of the lies and distortions that have been promulgated by those that want to retain the status quo. And, of course, that status quo is the situation in which we now find ourselves, where we are paying twice as much as any other nation, per capita, for a healthcare system that is, essentially, second rate.
If you would like to view the video, here’s the link.
If you want to read what the person on the video says together with my comments which essentially point out the truth of what is in the healthcare reform act, then read on.
Further, should you wish to refer to the healthcare reform act itself, to be sure that what I’m saying is the truth, you can bring it up by Googling HR3200. Just make sure you pick out the official version published by the government.
The act is a large document of over 1,000 pages. However, the only provisions covered here are those that were mentioned in the video. In the following paragraphs I’ve responded to roughly the first half of those comments. If it seems to be worth while I’ll complete the second half later.
I assure you, however, that what follows is a real eye opener. There is evidently no limit to the mistruths. The basic thrust of the video is obviously to strike fear in the minds of various categories of people.
For example, If you’re concerned about “healthcare rationing,†or that there will be a “limit†on your coverage, check out the page 29 and page 85 comments, the first of which happens to be the second one below.
If you believe there’s a “death panel†involved, check out the page 30 comment.
If you are a senior citizen and believe that the reform act is a threat to you, you might want to check out the comment related to page 85.
If you believe that illegal aliens will benefit from the act, check out the comments regarding pages 50, 91 and 170.
If you’re a small businessman and you’re afraid this will cost you dearly, check out the page 150 comment.
And, if you think that community groups such as ACORN will benefit from the act, check out the comments regarding pages 65 and 95.
It is important to keep in mind that these issues relate only to establishing insurance coverage for those who are not otherwise insured. This is the group that is currently imposing their healthcare costs on others, especially any major medical expenses they may incur. Many have no choice. They may be unable to get reasonably-priced policies due to pre-existing conditions.
So, to begin, let me just say that the comments of the author of the video are in italics. My responses are in bold type.
Page 22...The government will audit books of all employers who self insure.Â
This is entirely misleading. There is no mention of an “audit.†This section calls for a study, the main purpose of which is to ensure that employers do not engage in the practice of adverse selection and the results of the study are simply reported to Congress within 18 months. This provision is solely for the protection of the taxpayers and those insured by their employers.
Page 29, lines 4-16...HEALTHCARE RATIONING You can only receive so much care per year, $5,000 per single, $10,000 per family.
A flat-out lie. If you go back in the same section to page 27, lines 10-12, you will find that it states clearly that the act “does not impose any annual or lifetime limit on the coverage of covered health care items and services.†The limits being claimed by the author are actually the maximum amounts that an insured can be out of pocket, and they are quite reasonable.
(If you are not yet aware, at this point, that the author is trying to make you a victim of gross distortions and lies, read on.)
Page 30, Section 123...There will be a government committee that will decide what treatments and benefits you receive.
This is a blatant distortion to invoke the specter of the familiar “death panel†scare. The provision referred to sets up a committee, 60% of which will be composed of non-federal employees, which will recommend to the Secretary of Health and Human Services how much coverage specific procedures will provide (e.g. 85% of total cost in some cases, 95% in others). This is a basic necessity for any insurance plan. And, again, these provisions relate only to those who are otherwise uninsured.
Page 42...The Health Choice Commissioner will choose your healthcare benefits for you.
Actually, the commissioner will determine the “qualified health benefits plan standards under this title, including the enforcement of such standards in coordination with State insurance regulators and the Secretaries of Labor and the Treasury.†This is customary for any insurance program and is for the protection of the taxpayers.
Page 50...You have no choice.
First of all, the provision that appears on this page simply says that the Health Exchange for the uninsured will not conflict with the Public Health Service Act nor with any state laws. There is no mention of “choice†or lack thereof. Secondly, the use of the word “you†throughout this entire, fear-mongering exercise is inaccurate unless “you†are uninsured.
Page 50, Section 152...Healthcare will be provided to all non-U.S. citizens, illegal or otherwise.
The truth is that Section 152 contains nothing more than the basic non-discriminatory language found in any similar program. There is absolutely no statement in this section that coverage will be provided to “non-U.S. citizens, illegal or otherwise.†In fact, Section 246, later in the act, specifically states: “No Federal payment for undocumented aliens.â€
Page 58...Government will have real time access to individuals’ finances and a national ID card will be issued.
By real time, the act means timely, and the only purpose here is to utilize electronic communications as much as possible to speed up the process with respect to claims, payouts and to determine the eligibility of the insured “for a specific service with a specific physician at a specific facility, which may include utilization of a machine-readable health plan beneficiary identification card.†This is simply the basic type of provision you’d find in any insurance program. There is absolutely no access to “individuals’ finances.†As far as the card goes, if you are currently covered, you have one now, right? Everybody does.
Page 59, lines 21-24...Government will have direct access to your bank accounts for elective funds transfer.
Another classic case of deception. What the provision actually says is that if you want your money quickly, direct deposit will be available.
Page 65, Section 164...This is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in unions and community organizations such as ACORN.
Well, in telling this lie, the author at least got to take a whack at what must be two of his favorite targets. Anyway, what this provision really does is allow some reimbursements for employers who provide healthcare for their retirees and their dependents. There is no mention of unions nor of ACORN nor even of community organizations.
Page 72, lines 8-14...The government is creating a healthcare exchange to bring private healthcare plans under government control.
The Healthcare Insurance Exchange is simply the vehicle under which the otherwise uninsured people will become insured. Private healthcare plans may become qualified to step in and provide coverage if they wish to do so, but how likely is that, since their new customers would largely involve people who they themselves have refused to insure because of pre-existing conditions.
Page 84, Section 203...Government mandates all benefit packages for private healthcare plans in the exchange.
Funny, that scary word “mandates†never appears in the act. As with any insurance company, what this section does is require the commissioner to specify the benefits and costs available under the plans each year for the uninsured and, as mentioned in the preceding paragraph, private plans may apply to become involved if they wish to do so.
Page 85, Line 7...AARP members, your healthcare will be rationed.
This is an irresponsible attempt to implant fear in the hearts and minds of senior citizens over something that doesn’t even apply to them. If you are insured by AARP - (never mind that you’re probably also on Medicare which is unrelated to this act) - you are obviously not uninsured, which means this does not apply to you in more ways than one. Also, there is nothing about rationing on this page or anywhere else. The provision cited simply says that the commissioner will specify the benefit levels for the plans.
Page 91, lines 4-7...Government mandates linguistic appropriate services, translation for illegal aliens.
This is the second time around on this lie. So, once again, Section 246 of the act specifically states: “No Federal payment for undocumented aliens.â€
Page 95, lines 8-18...The government will use groups like ACORN and AmeriCorps to sign up individually for government healthcare plan.
Another total distortion that feeds into what the public has been wrongly told about these organizations. The truth is that this paragraph requires the commissioner to conduct an outreach program to inform and educate individuals and employers about the program for the uninsured, and nothing more.
Page 102, lines 12-18...Medicaid eligible individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid - no choice.
The basic purpose here is to get the uninsured people insured. The paragraph in question says that if an uninsured does not opt for insurance under this government program but is eligible for Medicaid, then that individual will automatically be enrolled in Medicaid. What’s the problem with that?
Page 124, lines 24-25...No company can sue the government on “price fixing.†No judicial review against government monopoly.
These lines do not mention the right of “companies†to sue, nor the term “price fixing†(despite the author’s quotation marks), nor the term “government monopoly.†The reference cited contains the following common, boiler-plate language: “There shall be no administrative or judicial review of a payment rate or methodology established under this section…†And, once again this only applies to individuals who are uninsured.
Page 126, lines 22-25...Employers must pay for healthcare for part-time employees and their families.
There is no mention of healthcare for part-time employees anywhere near the referenced page, but I certainly hope that part-timers are treated somewhat the same as full-timers. Otherwise, how long do you think it would be before the corporations classify most of their employees as part time?
Page 127, lines 1-16...To doctors and the AMA - the government will tell you how much you can make.
Taxpayers should be happy that, as with Medicare, there will be a limit on what the doctors can charge for specific services under this program for the uninsured.
Page 145, lines 15-17...All employers must auto enroll employees into government plan. You have no choice.
No choice? Really? A related provision on page 148, lines 3-7 says: “In no case may an employer automatically enroll an employee…if such employee makes an affirmative election to opt out of such plan or to elect coverage under an employment-based health benefits plan offered by such employer.â€
Page 149, lines 16-24...Any employer with a payroll of $400,000 and above who does not provide government option will pay an 8% tax on all payroll.
This is another taxpayer-friendly provision which will allow an employer to elect whether to provide healthcare benefits to its employees or pass the responsibility off to the government. If it opts to have the government insure its employees it will be required to pay 8% of its payroll for doing so - a fair tradeoff.
Page 150, lines 9-13...Any employer with a payroll between $251,000 and $400,000 who does not provide government option will pay a 2% to 6% tax on all payroll.
The cited provision provides the same option to small businesses that the large corporations have (as described in the preceding paragraph) but requires lower payments or none at all. For businesses with a payroll under $250,000 there will be no payment to the government, and from $250,000 to $400,000 the payments will scale up from 2% to 6% of payroll.
Page 167...Any individual who does not have acceptable healthcare, according to the government, will be taxed 2.5%.
Again, the main purpose of the act is to get as many people insured as possible. Many believe that the above tax is not high enough to accomplish that objective. Not mentioned by the author is the fact that there is a provision that the tax cannot exceed the normal cost for such insurance.
Page 170, lines 1-3...Any non-resident alien is exempt from individual taxes. You and I will pay for them.
Anybody notice that suddenly the author seems to want people covered? Regardless, what this provision states is that foreigners visiting the country, or here temporarily, will not be eligible for the government program, which is nothing more than sensible, boiler-plate language.



























Comments: 137
Healthcare in the USA is very costly.
But very difficult to change.
If anyone is interested to know how come this saves about 20% of health premiums and while insuring that coverage is complete and covers all from diabetics to cancer, heart strokes and long hospitalizations while drugs are to be made available, go to this other Dave's post:
Affordable Care Act Begins to Pay Off , first comment.
So if the idea is to save on the National budget and try to slow down expenditures, this is way to do it. If, to the contrary, the idea is to get corporations and insurances companies getting richer, just decline the idea of any universal health care insurance and don't hesitate in subscribing the most expensive coverage.
It is not until the very rich realize there is not further gain they can make by decimating the rest of society that we will have to endure this bullshit (pardon my Friend). There is a point where the people at the top are so stupid and out of touch that they do not really get that makes them no better off to have the rest of the country going into the red. I hope I live long enough to at least see part of the turnaround so I know it is there.
There is no public option Debra ... you know that, right?
I never demonized the health care bill, it is as good as Obama could do, or cared to do. Obama never asked for public support on the public option, or even mentioned that there was overwhelming support for it with the public, nurses and doctors.
Wonder why? "People" do not forget how liable they are to disaster and catastrophe, our government does, and Obama heads that up.
Reason I ask is there was another ruling on Obamacare this morning:
11th Circuit says individual mandate is unconstitutional
August 12, 2011
The two have nothing to do with each other.
What I meant was, it's my understanding that the best chance the Public option (or single payer I should add -- in my mind they are nearly one and the same) has is Obamacare (as Jan S describes it in this video). Maybe my understanding is incorrect.
But if I'm not totally offbase, as I understand it Obamacare won't work (won't save money at all and won't result in the mass movement away from private insurance that Jan describes) if the individual mandate is removed. Oh, some of it can be implemented, but it probably won't work the way it has been touted that it will.
So if the Individual mandate is unconstitutional and is disallowed, and Obamacare falls apart as a fully connected piece of legislation except for a change here or there .... then what hope would there be for a public option (or, down the road, single payer)? Could it still somehow be implemented even without the trappings of the Obamacare infrastructure to lead us there?
My comment to Anita D. here over is valid for you and all those who ignore how the insurance industry works.
And this system is in no way compelling any one to subscribe ... if one prefers to have a FULL and PRIVATE coverage.
Wow, what a great argument Gilbert - no ... no it's not, it is one of those idiotic and needlessly provocative statements that is not backed up and that mean nothing.
First, there are six comments I made in this thread, and none of them were directed to you - and yet you butt in and nonsense ... well screw you Gilbert, if you did that to someone in person as old as you are you might get punched in the nose and die.
If you have something to say to me, especially 3 months after I post something, be a little more polite, a little more thoughtful and actually make an argument. If you cannot do that then just shut the hell up and don't waste people's time.
I am lucky enough, as Gather didn't send me any notice: something wrong when compared to what usually happens. I have to follow up myself each one and every comment I do for not appearing "rude". I wonder if you have to "enjoy" the very same problem. But there is something fishy in Gather's kingdom!
So I refer to this comment of yours, appearing here over:
It is not until the very rich realize there is not further gain they can make by decimating the rest of society that we will have to endure this bullshit (pardon my Friend). There is a point where the people at the top are so stupid and out of touch that they do not really get that makes them no better off to have the rest of the country going into the red. I hope I live long enough to at least see part of the turnaround so I know it is there.
" ... that we will have to endure this bullshit".
I may have over reacted but any way, saving about 20% of the actual healthcare expenses (2009 was in an average 8,050 per inhabitant or if you prefer 2.5 TRILLIONS per year) so we are talking about saving the equivalent of 50 billions per year or if you still prefer 500 billions on 10 years - as such figure is easier to compare with the goal of reducing the budget deficit of 1,200 billions over the same 10 years period - cannot be qualified as "bullshit".
Yeah, on top of that you are reading my comment wrong ... probably an English problem. Basically I am saying that the rich have such a stranglehold on the country that no matter the economies of scale or the morality of our situation they are not going to budge ... what I call, bullshit. It is only when the upper classes decide to be human, if they do, that the US will change. If they want they cut the legs out of any reform movement, buy-off or kill any opposition, and terrorize anyone in the world - so change is not going to happen until they permit it and see that it will work. Just look at what happened from the great depression to now.
The upper class may change sooner than later as they should be questioning themselves already about the value of any property or assets if they become non-productive due to the social gap.
Not later than yesterday I met some people who usually vote supporting the GOP.
All of them appeared "fed up and disappointed" calling to vote Obama in 2012. They change mind since about 3 months ago ...
Among other benefits ....
I keep remembering Nancy Pelosi making that stupid statement:"Just sign it and you can read it later!" That seems to show to the American public her belief that we are all just a bunch of sheep without intelligence and a "follow the leader" personality.
I know our political views are different, but I have to acknowledge that you have spent a lot of time and effort in preparation and presentation.
June M. Aug 12, 2011, 5:42am EDT
Dave, your research and writing of this article deserves profound respect!
I keep remembering Nancy Pelosi making that stupid statement:"Just sign it and you can read it later!" That seems to show to the American public her belief that we are all just a bunch of sheep without intelligence and a "follow the leader" personality.
I know our political views are different, but I have to acknowledge that you have spent a lot of time and effort in preparation and presentation.
LOL ... not sure that says much about democracy ... unless people in other countries are smarter than Americans ... and if that is so, what happens to people when they come here that makes them stupid (politically) because we are a nation of immigrants??
I think the stupidity of the American voter is NOT researching and believing what someone else says...
Most of the drama was caused by the Dems themselves... like a thief in the night, behind closed doors... Yep, thats the way to do it alright.. I mean how much fairer could it get ? LOL!!!!
OBAMA wasn't voted because he possesses intellectual endowment, it has already been established he was voted because he's a SPADE!
They want to transform this country because they truly believe that America is evil. Their books, their works, their words, and their papers tell us in their own words that they want to dismantle the America that we've known and loved.
Indeed, we are sick today...We are loosing our patriotism, or morality, and our spiritual life.. BTW, the three things that Joseph Stalin said would resist infiltration. He said if they could ever undermine any or all of these things, America would collapse from within.
The director and producer of Agenda: Grinding America Down, (I posted on that recently) from the inception of the Fabian Socialist Society in 1883, to the writings and activism of Antonio Gramsci, to Saul Alinksy and his book Rules for Radicals (which he dedicated to Lucifer, by the way, and who mentored not only Barack Obama, but Hillary Clinton as well) to the Democratic Socialist Caucus which boasts the membership of 15% of the representatives in our national House of Representatives, America has been infiltrated with a stealth we have been sidetracked from noticing.
The only way to get our country back on track is to recognize what is happening in our government, our schools, our news media, and our churches and to work within our communities to fight this encroachment on our American way of life. Half the world is burning as we speak. If we don't stop this now, America will be next. Thwarting the Socialist (communist) Agenda
I think that is a direct result of the bastardized form of capitalism we have, it is against human beings and tends to disenfranchise and alienate people, even if it does make some fabulously wealthy ... it them makes them arrogant and mean.
I have to admit, though, that I've read most of these lies before on Gather, and she was the first person I thought of. (She probably posted this very video somewhere.) I only wish she could calm down enough to be able to actually write about a single one of these distortions. But every time she starts to write about the subject, she branches off into unrelated rants. At least that illustrates the kind of person who believes this nonsense.
By the way: excellent rebuttal, Dave.
The TEA Party is most certainly not the enemy of the U.S.A.
It is also most certainly not the friend of the 'progressive' left.
We are her best friend and strength in reserve.
Long live the Republic.
we are simply voting to replace existing 33rd Degree Masons
1. Scottish Rite masons (whites only)
2. Prince Hall masosn (non-whites SPADES)
Simple do your homework! Been that way for decades!
Not to argue whether is it right to do or not, but to say non-citizens or illegal immigrants won't get services under the new health care reform law is not completely true.
Never has been true, John. Thanks for bringing that up. Doesn't matter what lists of 'true' stuff about Obamacare say, the actual implementations of it don't lie.
John S. (arizona) Aug 12, 2011, 12:09pm EDT
Despite what that may say above, one example I read day before yesterday is the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) awarded some $29 million dollar grant funded under the new health-care law for community health centers and migrant farm workers;The Migrant Health Center program. They will not check for citizenship status for service, legal or illegal, and will receive health care regardless of ability to pay.
Not to argue whether is it right to do or not, but to say non-citizens or illegal immigrants won't get services under the new health care reform law is not completely true.
Did you read the bill, if so which one?
Impress -> dress -> "shocked" -> lose socks -> as a manner of speaking
obviously your sexy for your Wholly socks , next . . .
The objective here was to point out the fabrications in the video that was based on the information contained in HR3200. After all, this was the "ground zero" for the campaign to scuttle the so-called "obamacare" act I did, however, review HR3590 and Senator Reid's amendment to that bill and could find no case where the points made in the above article were materially different. Also, I notice that those who tried to change the direction of the discussion in this thread didn't mention any specific points of departure as well.
Did you see Sebelius here? Can't remember if I saw you there or not.
It's been anticipated for some time that this will end up being decided by the most powerful political group in the country - the Supreme Court.
If, in the end, the government option is forced to become voluntary, it could cause an immense wave of adverse selections which could cost the taxpayers dearly, and create an even more perfect paradise for the insurance industry.
And Micky, my friend, who told you the bill takes $500 billion out of Medicare?
After 10 years of experience went to "universal" requiring all citizens to subscribe a health insurance.
This is due to the fact that who's not able to afford an insurance premium calls for emergency rooms and therefore is several times far more expensive to the tax payer than if provided with such premiums by the very same tax payer.
Usually - but not always at all - the employer pays 50% of the monthly premium.
Unemployed people (kids, jobless or retired after 65) if they cannot afford the insurance will automatically be helped by social services. However this depends on the personal revenues and varies according to them.
The minimum basic insurance monthly premium exceeds $ 450. However the subscriber can low such premium when accepting to pay for the very first expenditures up to some level (ab. $ 2,000) per year.
Swiss joblessness is now raising (from less than 3%) because of the currency value which is looking North in an excess of 20% this last quarter.
Corporate taxes are in average about 27% and private go up to 47% and still immigration is impressive and creates a real estate bubble.
Kathleen Sebelius thinks they did ... er well in any case they counted that 500 bil toward funding for Obamacare ... or something like that. Er ... or maybe not. Best watch the video. Maybe I've misunderstood her.
60% of the public favored having the government provide all the insurance prior to the action by Congress. Tons of money and lobbying perks took care of Congress, and the fabricated propaganda campaign took care of much of the public.
This is only a tiny corner in the mother-nest of the cancer eating into the fabric of this country - namely the "legalized" corruption that is going hog-wild in Washington and in every state capitol.
As a result, the middle class is being looted by the elite while the enabling politicians move on up to Easy Street.
And the billionaire-owned media keeps it all neatly under wraps.
have a good day
Your post is EXTREMELY important. That kind of misleading video is easy to watch and easy for people to connect with, so if they have any concerns at all they will be blown out of proportion. I note that the lies are quick and simple... how many times did they simply say "ration healthcare"... and most people won't bother the check the original documents, assuming (don't ask me why, but they do) that the video is correct. (If it's on video, it must be correct.) It takes much more time to correct the innaccurate errors. As soon as all the dust settles, people will thank you.
Just read or listen to about anything, post, interview, article, or whatever that is written by former CIGNA VP Wendell Potter if you want to know how serious this campaign is.
And thanks for the link to the Potter video and stories, Bruce. The latest attempt at reform was the third time the industry pretended to cooperate with the efforts to introduce much needed improvements into the system while torpedoing the process in many devious ways.
Baucus, who is on the new super committee represents a state that strongly favored government insurance for all but as the recipient of millions from the healthcare industry he was instrumental in killing any move in that direction, as was Lieberman, who chose to represent Aetna Insurance Co. and the millions he had been paid, rather than respect the strong wishes of the people of Connecticut.
Money always wins, as the people of Wisconsin found out this week.
Each month, a group of people who are all for Obamacare send a slick 2 page (front and back) brochure about more stuff they've learned about Obamacare. They like what they're sharing. I certainly don't.
The last one showed that anyone making $15,000 or less will be able to be on Medicaid. Period. (No matter whether they are legal or illegal.) It also showed that a single person earning from $15,000 to $43,000 will get assistance for their insurance premiums. Who do you think will pay for that assistance?
You think small businesses won't have a problem? Start asking them.
You think doctors won't have any problems? That's not what my doctor group says and they've had attorneys pouring through the law since it passed. We've lost 4 of the 20+ docs now and will lose more by 2014.
You like having the government decide your care? Not me.
You don't think there will be rationing? Get real. It will have to come with all the "freebies" being offered.
This is not a time for our government to take on any more expenses. It's time to downsize government and lower taxes and get back to free markets.
Agreed, nodding as you speak it.
I can't even bring up the Obamacare to my doctor if I want him to concentrate on me ... both partners make faces and shake their heads in disgust. We have two nurses in our extended family and they are appalled at what they hear.
Anyway you keep telling it.
You never accepted this presidency from the beginning, so your credibility in critiquing him is suspect - to say the least. Just out of curiousity, are you still promoting your birther propaganda?
And, don't forget that this president you so dearly love lied about the people who were supposedly turned down for insurance help. Remember? One had lied on her application and that was why she was denied coverage.
You're right that I'm down on Team Obama. Perhaps you're not paying attention to their lies, but I have been.
But, since you asked, I'm getting ready to post something today or tomorrow.
**BREAKING** White House posts copy of birth certificate I forged!
Exposed: Obama Forger Goes Public
After being screwed as a nation for decades by the insurance industry, I think it's time for major surgery - which should involve taking the insurance industry out of the picture in manageable stages. The healthcare reform bill is nothing more than an expensive bandaid, thanks in large part to the industry and its well-paid henchmen in Congress and in the White House.
I don't know that my solution would be the right one, of course, but at least it would be an attempt to create a sea change in a situation that is on course to truly bankrupt the nation.
What I don't hear from those who comment negatively above is any suggested solution at all, and that's a little disturbing...
Health insurance companies should be killed. They are responsible for the deaths of thousands, by refusing to cover medical treatments that might have saved their lives. That's premeditated murder for profit. I though you so-called "conservatives" favored the death penalty.
No - what you present are industry talking points. You're gonna think differently about this when you have to fight with insurance companies for coverage. It's just a matter of time. Then you'll see how you've cut your own throat - and everyone else's too.
Sorry for being off-topic (well kind of off topic).
People die because they don't have health insurance every day: according to Reuters it is 45,000 per year. They simply can't afford treatment or medicines.
Beyond this, I have several friends who died of AIDS complications because Health Insurance companies would not pay for newer, better, more expensive drugs that would have saved their lives. (Then again, you probably don't consider people with AIDS worthy of recognition.) In Canada we don't have this issue because provincial health care regulates the cost of medicines.
(Sorry Steve/Dave, this might be a bit off topic but I couldn't let such a glaring error stand. Marilyn should "take the speck out of her own eye" before she accuses others of perpetuating lies, since she is doing exactly that.)
So you would have sent him to death without the charity.
I wonder how come so many people are unaware about what they are talking about.
They can't even produce statistics supporting their own feelings, they are scared about the non-privatisation of healthcare - in this case - and prefer to have private companies with a type of (illegal) of trust agreement in order to create profits for themselves and their shareholders, thus increasing the final cost of healthcare.
Another reason for them to deny such healthcare is because they feel that if you can't pay, no good physician will take care of them. This is insulting the actual educating system and is wrong.
Of course, as in any branch, there is empathy needed and doctors are human beings who, even sometimes, brake their Hippocratic Oath as I saw in Florida.
As per Chinese statement: No money, no honey!
>>> insurance industry out of the picture in manageable stages.
The funny problem with this is that if you look at the US economy a huge proportion of our jobs are just BS make-work jobs. When you add in paper pushers, or health insurance people, people who do taxes, we have an astounding number of people who may be getting paid and doing something but they are not adding anything of value to the economy, except stability and momentum to the "system" ... and they are not doing that very well.
If we simplified the tax code we would put tax preparers, tax attorneys, all kinds of financial planners out of work ... and if we took away the health insurance for profit industry we would have a lot of those people unemployed.
Anyway you look at it, the US economy is pretty screwed, it is a game of bribery and force, selling the country off and our people out, while the rest of the world sells us junk and takes our IOUs.
Health care (in any real sense) includes diet and exercise, as well as policies that promote healthy behavior and products - and discourage unhealthy ones. When you have the opposite, then medical treatments and insurance coverage get called "health care", a total misnomer. But it's typical American incompetence to refuse to do something about anything, until it reaches a crisis point. That is (in reality - and reality matters) about as non-conservative as you can get.
I can go on and on about this, but it's not on topic - but it really is more pertinent to the topic of health care.
Folks, the Progressive agenda, of which this health care nonsense is but another example, is not about revolution but rather evolution. A slow, deliberate, "accepted," and undetectable to the average apathetic American. Thanks to Obama and his socialist band of criminals, the heat has been bumped to high.. Feeling the heat yet??
"How fortunate for governments, that the people they govern, don't think." - Adolf Hitler
HOW TO BOIL A FROG
"Set up concentration camps for those who can't afford healthcare" as your denial is a 'save-now-pay-later' scheme.
You seem to ignore the cost to the taxpayer of healthcare provided by emergency rooms because some people cannot afford calling on physicians.
As far as quoting Hitler, you shouild better know how come and in which circumstances he stated your quote: a bit more education could help you!
It shows you just how scared people are of the Republican freaks that they may well re-elect Obama, warts and all, knowingly to avoid another Republican - they all seen insane and out of touch.
Of course, coming from Obama it is socialism but coming from Mitt is would be showing how good is the capitalism, how much it could extent the charity concept.
But still how the computations are done, this you ignore completely, so you feel that competition among insurances would provide some savings as if the Vermont's insurance could apply the same premiums in Vermont or New York.
Instead of uttering nonsense, why don't you spend some times investigating how premiums are computed ....
And , if you prefer to spend 20% more on your premiums for a partial coverage, why are you complaining? Just do it but avoid any kind of heavy sickness or accident or heart stroke.
BTW, I hope my answer will not provoke one to you.
Kathleen Sebelius thinks they did ... er will .... er ... or lied about it ... or are intending to ... er hmm ... in any case they counted that 500 bil toward funding for Obamacare ... or something like that. Er ... Best watch the video, let Kathleen tell us herself.
Your argument that FOX, Beck, Hannity and Rush said this is the clincher. I rest my case...
Dave you said: ...there's nothing in this short, out-of-context video to suggest double-counting, except the words of the speaker.
And Sebelius's own assent that it was true ... the 'money' was to "somehow" be used for both.
Short and "outofcontext" or not, in answer to the direct question, "so are you using it to save Medicare or to fund Obamacare?" Sebelius herself answered "Both."
That is double counting.
Somehow they used the same amount of money for both ...
And it's the "somehow" that has to stop. It's that exact "somehow" over many years that got us into the precarious predicament we are in.
Further, I certainly understand that it is not just the Obama admin or this unfortunate bit of legislation we affectionately call "Obamacare" that's responsible.
"Progressives" of both parties love this kind of funny "somehow" bookkeeping.
And make no mistake, the bookkeeping that was used to push Obamacare through is on a par with the bookkeeping that put the likes of Bernie Madeoff and Al Capone in jail. Except when the government does it it's just "good politics."
You cannot legitimately fund one thing with 500 billion and save another thing with that same 500 billion at the same time in the same report.
Or last but not least, you simply cannot fund something today with 500 billion that has yet to be saved, raised, or cut from Medicare tomorrow.
So either that 500 billion was an accounting trick (a lie of omission) so that Obamacare would seem more attractive to the bean counters, or 500 billion is going to soon be cut from Medicare in order to fund some of the Obamacare stuff that is already being implemented today.
It's one or the other.
Sebelius says both.
As always you raise points that titillate intelligent minds. Considering the quandary he finds himself in now I doubt that anyone could reasonably refute your facts...Let's face it, one term, one piece of garbage, hopefully he gets taken out with the 2012 trash!
Great post!
"This is a basic necessity for any insurance plan. And, again, these provisions relate only to those who are otherwise uninsured."
I thought that the uninsured is why this socialistic program was forced on us. There should no longer be "uninsured".
the solution the folks in Washington D.C., would propose is DEATH TAX, for every individual who is deceased TAX them LOL . . .
But you could respond in this location. But you choose to respond below, why?
From: 1NationUnder1God3in1
Does Mickey's comments ever neglet to mention them...I think not. They are resented, not for the illegal registration of minorities, but for the great job they did legally registering them, not to mention the help they provided the minorities in achieving home ownership under the system they had no hand in creating...
didn't you notice Micky (Mickey D.) isn't endowed with intellectual capabilities. Micky D., has serious issues. if you have a chance read the sewage that Micky D. wrote regarding " OCCUPY " pushed some old lady down when the video clearly showed two men wearing black suits standing right behind her, shoved her not the other way around, oh, those two men were none other than government employees. LMAO
BTW, speaking of "2012," it looks to be an extremely nasty year for the two handmaidens, politics and economics. But there may be a small consolation suggested by an old Chinese proverbial wish which goes: "May you live in interesting times." I believe that such lie ahead of us, as unpleasant as the times may be...