Experts Agree but Does Your Government?

Why not ask the TEA Party folks why they demanded such a situation? The Republican conservatives in Congress got 98% of what they wanted according to the Republican House leader. So since this "super congress" is a huge part of the package it must have been what the conservative Republicans wanted. (My Congressman voted against it.)

Can you provide us a quote of those TEA Party members (folks) that asked for this Larry?

Look at the vote on the debt ceiling agreement. The TEA Party members who voted for the agreement should be on that list.

Those who are TEA Party folks did NOT vote for this bill.

That comes as a surprise to me Dan but I'll take your word for it. Perhaps they are disappointed with the Republican leadership then.

Larry, Dan is correct. Those who voted against this Bill were Tea Party members of Congress. That is why the Tea Party took so much heat and is still taking a beating in the Liberal media. The Tea Party was the only group to take any remedial action before it could become Law and the Liberal media is still blaming them for it. That is how Liberal media sells nonsense to their masses.

So the question becomes, where were the Liberals in fighting agains this Bill? How easy for them to point fingers because they didn't speak out against it when that would've lent real momentum. It's times like those the Left and the Right should join foces, at least within their respective parties. The Left failed as badly if not worse.

Fren,

My Congressman is not of the TEA Party. He voted against the bill.

He spoke out against the bill in messages to his constituents.

Larry, in your Congressman's messages, where he spoke out, I strongly suspect he blamed Republicans in general if not the Tea Party specifically? If he did apply blame, Larry, which they all do in their messages, that is the propaganda that wrongly promotes keeping The People so divided; and that would be a very very wrong thing to do because that was not the case.

I didn't word myself very well but I didn't mean to imply that only Tea Partiers voted against it, of course that was not the case. However, Democrats did come on board with it, too. It could not have passed the Democrat controlled Senate if that were not the case.

As I mentioned in comment elsewhere, it is my firm position that Good Old Boy Republicans (not Tea Party) like Boehner and McConnel obviously wrote the Bill then "sold" it to Obama and Reid and Pelosi. That clearly being the case and this Bill being such a grossly bad Bill for ALL of The People, specifically because of its' "Super Congress'" unheard-of powers, that sent the very clear message that our government is no longer (and probably hasn't been for a very long time) about "Republicans" and "Democrats."

It IS about one Big Government that seeks its' own control. And that control goes directly to "nudging" us, America, into Socialism/Communism via Internal Law leading into One World Order. I haven't counted all of the countries that are Communist today but a greta majority of them are. Those that are not are way ahead of US in being Socialistic.

America is the "final frontier." If her People aren't very cohesive in joining together against Socialism/Communism, we will find ourselves there.

Fren,

If I remember correctly (and I threw away the letter) he felt that the bill would destroy thousands of jobs and greatly increase our chances of a serious recession.

Again I remind you that big money interests control Congress and the Administration. Don't blame government for what its paymasters have it do. Look "behind the curtain."

Larry, "Again I remind you that big money interests control Congress and the Administration. Don't blame government for what its paymasters have it do. Look "behind the curtain."

Well then, Larry, why do bother reading or believing your Congressman's letters? That's not "looking behind the curtain." You seem to pull things out of the air depending on whether they apply to you or you want to apply them to me.

The only thing I can hope to do as a citizen is help control the government that works for me. Their Big Money "paymasters" are their problem. I expect them to do the job We are paying them to do. If more of us held them to that task we'd all be a lot better off.

Fren,

What part of my comments led you to think I believe any politician? If you go above and read what I wrote you should be able to see that I indicated no belief. You assumed incorrectly that I believed.

The big money paymasters control the government you get so I would say that those paymasters are your problem, too. If you actually expect rather than demand that your representatives in Congress to do the job that tax money is paying them to do then you should look behind the curtain because they are not doing what is good for the nation. If you demand that they support the best interests of the people of the U.S. then you should be quite angry at them for what they have been doing.

Larry, "What part of my comments led you to think I believe any politician?" Read them, Larry. True or not, that is exactly what you implied. Turning inside-out the echoes of others doesn't change a thing.

As for, "The big money paymasters control the government you get so I would say that those paymasters are your problem, too." That's like saying I am responsible for the bad food you ate at a national chain restaurant because I happened to eat at one elsewhere.

I am not responsible for the illegal dealings of others. Not every Congressman is the underhanded Congressmen that others of The People elect. I am responsible for what IS my responsibility. I elect my Congressmen carefully and when there's a bad seed I address that issue. That is my responsibility. I uphold my share of responsibility. I would suggest others do the same. Only then will We The People do the governing over our government that We are obligated to do. Which, by the way, is exactly what the Tea Party aspires to.

You moan about what's wrong but you appear to take little action of your own responsibility to right it. In every rendering you seem overwhelmingly defeated by it. That serves no one and, IMHO, that is not a responsible approach to any problem, especially so of this nature. We may be insignificant as individuals but as a unified force We have great potential to curb those very problems.

Fren,

I don't imply. I come right out with it. You are the one doing the inferring and that's your view of what I say. Now where did I say that any politician tells the truth? Please quote the words I used with cite date and time.

You wrote:
"That's like saying I am responsible for the bad food you ate at a national chain restaurant because I happened to eat at one elsewhere."
No Fren, it's a risk you also run. If there are dangerous things out there for me they are probably also dangerous for you. In the case of national government if it harms me it will also harm others including you.

You are not responsible for Congress being corrupted by big money interests.

I don't moan. That's your propaganda. I have enough experience and knowledge to be able to warn you that solutions you propose will not work. If you were to take your knowledge of medicine back 300 years you could tell sick people all sorts of things that would not work to cure their diseases. That would not show that you were overwhelmingly defeated by disease.

I have provided a solution for our economic and political problems. I advocate for that solution. As a part of that process, I point out that the things we are doing have never solved our problems and why and recommend my solution. I don't think that is being "overwhelmingly defeated" but rather a good friend.

Larry, "inferred" (your word, not mine): to derive by reasoning; conclude or judge from premises or evidence. Yes, Larry, I concluded from the "evidence" you stated.

"My Congressman ... voted against the bill. He spoke out against the bill in messages to his constituents. If I remember correctly (and I threw away the letter) he felt that the bill would destroy thousands of jobs and greatly increase our chances of a serious recession."

Now if you don't believe anything your Congressman says, why, pray tell, sign up for his letters, bother to read them, or use what he says about them to project his position as credible or as being your own ... as you most certainly did here?

One thing I used to respect about you, Larry, was that you didn't fall back on the Left's foolishness of echoing someone else's validity as if that validity was original to you. I will not go there. If you want to pose original arguments, we can continue. If you're just going to mimick mine, I have no interest in such foolishness. Often placed out of usual context if not misplaced all together, sometimes I wonder if you know the meanings of the words you choose.

To successfully advocate for the system you propose, you have to believe in it enough to see it through. Otherwise it's just wishful thinking and we all have wishful thoughts.

Fren,

Yes, that is what I intended that word (inferred) to mean in that context. You have selected the appropriate definition.

Now I have read your justification for inferring what you did from my comments. Your justification makes no sense to me. I described what my Congressmen did. You indicate that because I receive messages which my Congressmen sends to the voters in his district and because I wrote about what he said that I of necessity believe him? Quoting someone (which is stronger than what I wrote) does not indicate agreement with nor belief in what one quotes. You quoted me, after all. :-)

I also see nothing in that quote which indicates that I believe his position is credible of as being my own.

I was responding to your statement and I quote you from your August 5th at 2:35

"Those who voted against this Bill were Tea Party members of Congress. "

My comment was to show that there were those who are not TEA Party members who also voted against the bill. I wrote the words of mine that you quoted in support of my assertion. There is nothing at all in my words you quoted nor in their context to indicate that I believe my Congressman.

Your inference is in error in this case.

Larry, "I wrote the words of mine that you quoted in support of my assertion."

That is my point. People only have "your words" from which to draw inference, Larry. If that's not what you intend - for people to draw reasonable inference from what you write - then there's little point to the whole dialogue.

If my reasonable conclusions from your words were in error, then I suggest it was your words that were in error, not the reasonable conclusions I reached by "inferring" (i.e., deriving by reasoning of evidence) of what you in fact did write.

Fren,

I don't find your inferences logical or reasonable at all, Fren. To me they seem to be quire unreasonable and quite independent of what I wrote.

I am responsible for what I write and if you did not understand it the way I meant it then I did a poor job of writing it. My error. I hope that my further explanation made my intention clear.

Larry, we agree to disagree then :). Your discussions are always lively.

Well it ended better than it seemed to be going ... :-) ... that is a beginning ... of bridging "the divide" that our "hidden" leaders intend for us to control us ...

Jerry, I regard Larry as a friend. We disagree on almost everything. Larry seems to sincerely believe in the principles he addresses, whether I do or not. That's much more than I can say of many on the Left.

You're absolutely correct. We The People who are sincere in our principles must respect one another enough to not allow the intentional divide that's been built between us further manipulate us. We all are, ultimately, in the same boat.

Fren,

It is after all OUR country, not just your country or my country and we need to share the duties, responsibilities, benefits, and suffering that goes with being part of a democracy. I may reject some of your ideas but I will never reject you.

Larry, that is a kind hearted thing to say, thank you for it. Your good heart is what makes you outstanding among many. You've hit the proverbial nail on the head with this: "It is after all OUR country, not just your country or my country and we need to share the duties ... ." Absolutely.

See, Fren, there's another thing on which we agree. :-)

Larry, lol, maybe we're meeting on the back side? Ha!

Since when is the Constitution an issue in Congress?

Dan, I suppose you're being humorous :)? It does seem they've quite successfully circumvented our U.S. Constitution ever so cunningly over the years. We look up today to see it upheld in mere remnants of what it was and should be. As a People still living under it and it still being our living document of unalienable rights, we do not have to accept how they are trying to narrow it today. If we do accept today's violations, we make it irrelevant ourselves.

I wish I was trying to be funny Fren,
But a while back I read quotes of a Congressman who related that the constitution is not even considered in the vast majority of congressional decisions.
As soon as I heard about the "deal" NOT! I sent money to GOOOH! We gotta get some responsible people in congress!

Dan, I would be MOST interested to learn your impressions of GOOOH. It is a very interesting concept and considerably more so now. I don't know what it is about their mailings, but I find them difficult to follow in terms of how they're wanting me to react?

If our Comngressman are not even considering the Constitution in their decisions, then that's because they know exactly how futile it is, i.e., in what direction this country is being driven (toward Socialism, OWO).

GOOOH "sounds" like a step in the right direction ...

In this country, a constitution was conceived which would limit the government's powers over the people who chose be be governed by it.

As long as the people remain virtuous, it works.

Thus, the people, one soul at a time, must return to the Source of its inspiration.
Humankind, without God, cannot do this.

ben, wisdom abounds in your statement! You are absolutley correct. I can only say, many are praying about this. I often wonder if God hears enough of them to be persuaded? We have only to believe when asking Him. It is that simple.

We need only be His instruments. It may require prayer without ceasing.

In other words, we must be transformed by God's Love and Wisdom.

God never needs persuasion. It is human pride which does not allow God to act within us. We must take time to listen to God. Many believe they do not need God. They are mistaken.

Complete confidence in the God, not men, is necessary at this time.

It is said that when individuals change, society changes. Hense, each one of us must look into our own hearts and examine them. Each one of us is needed in this endeavor. If we are sincere about following Wisdom, then we allow God to remove that which is impure in our hearts. Then there is room for God's Wisdom and Immense Love.

Those who have allowed God to transform their hearts have nothing to fear, no matter what is coming.

ben, you have a very good manner of explaining it. I do believe God needs to be persuaded, in terms of hearing from us as representing a nation of Godly people. But I understand what you mean.

"Those who have allowed God to transform their hearts have nothing to fear, no matter what is coming."

Absolutely. That is my personal solace. Many of us aspire to act on what we believe is God's will through us. He would not have us remain idle in what is, IMHO, an obvious earthly battle of good -vs- evil.

Such a dark evil as today's I have never seen. And, yes, I am human, coming face to face with that darkness sends a lightening rod of haunt through me, if only momentarily.

Yes, Fren, the world is on the edge of catastrophe.

The good news is that evil (what I call gross ignorance) can be disarmed completely by an ardent and oblative love which always includes forgiveness. This is the way God loves us.
So, we must ask God for the ability to love in this way so that we can even love our enemies... Oblative love softens the most hardened of hearts, given some time and sincere prayer.

Persevere, dear Fren, the best is yet to come as we come to discover that we, and our God, are meant to fulfill one another!

ben, perseverence is one thing I can do :). I do appreciate your reminders. They are important to keep in the front of our minds and it's easy to let them fall behind.

Jesus said, "Fortunate is the man who knows where the brigands will enter, so that he may get up, muster his domain, and arm himself before they invade." (St. Thomas)

At first glance, one might conclude that Jesus is speaking in a literal tongue. But the meaning must be elevated to a level of spirit.
Jesus speaks of spiritual armor in a war against the world's ignorance towards God's Wisdom.
This saying applies to the world in general, which can never be trusted.

We are admonished to be 'passersby' for a good reason.

It is well to remember that God's government supersedes mankind's if we ever want to live in the kingdom, even while living in the world...

ben, it is apt that some of us wrongly trust in this world. I know of few who haven't fallen victim. I suppose that occurs when we step outside the Spirit, but I know no man who lives in the Spirit 100% of the time. It is our nature to downfall. We comprise the Body of Christ and where one hand falls, the other picks us up. Praise God for His mercy and grace. I am the first to admit to being too trusting. Hopefully I have other gifts that compensate where another falls short.

When we fall short, we can ask for guidance so as to return to the Spirit. We can renounce our attachments to things that are obstacles which make us stumble... It is the daily return that matters in the long run.
Let us pray for discernment so that we may learn which things are of Spirit and which things are not.

Yes, we shall help each other along the way!

ben, indeed, I agree wholeheartedly: "Let us pray for discernment so that we may learn which things are of Spirit and which things are not."

I pray God will bring that to all who seek to know man's truth.

It's odd to me that, as much as I know better from harsh lessons I have learned, it is so easy to fall back into thinking our own knowledge will suffice. How do you know the difference, ben, between what is "your" knowledge and what, of it, comes from God?

That which comes from the God always brings great peace to my heart.

When we are agitated or irritated by anything, we are not near to God.

ben, sensing peace in our heart makes perfect sense. I'm not sure I'm on board about being agitated or irritated? Those are motivations to take stands for God (for good). Some of my best work for God was initiated by first sensing the agitation and irritation of man.

Let's use today's politics as an example. Clearly many of us are agitated and irritated by the political manipulations that are at the very heart of these wrongs, what I sincerely regard as pure evil. Would you have believers who are gifted to try to right those wrongs, not try to right them?

Being agitated is helpful and useful in this way: It tells us how we are seeing ourselves. If you believe that the world must change in order to fit your sense of identity with certain ideas, take care in examining what those ideas are. Are they ideas which bring you closer to God, or closer to the world?

We must right the wrongs in our own hearts first, rather than immediately judging the wrongs of others. For example, if we do not approve of certain behaviour, then we must set an example to others rather than asking them to change.

The kingdom begins with individuals and spreads out to others through great love and forbearance.

We are all on God's time, not the world's. If we can forgive others for their apparent transgressions, we can forgive our own and move on together in peace.

ben, "For example, if we do not approve of certain behaviour, then we must set an example to others rather than asking them to change ... If we can forgive others for their apparent transgressions, we can forgive our own and move on together in peace."

But, ben, forgiveness is not the say-all be-all of God's plan for man. We comprise the Body of Christ for profound reasons. That was not just to keep forgiveness to ourselves and move on in our inner peace. Yes, the inner peace that comes with forgiving is critical to our relationship with man and God. You may recall, even God and His Son expressed agitation and irritation with mankind. It is no less appropriate for us, as mere men, to do it.

"Being agitated is helpful and useful in this way: It tells us how we are seeing ourselves ... Are they ideas which bring you closer to God, or closer to the world?"

I disagree in some respects, ben. Your description (for the most part) does not fit my agitation and irritation with the world. I see the world as driving us, as a people, away from God. My agitation and irritation with that brings me closer to God. Perhaps it is the single most important thing that does remind me just how critical God is.

ben, seeing this in print looked rather silly: "forgiveness is not the say-all be-all of God's plan for man." Obviously that is, in fact, the "say-all be-all plan" when it comes to God and man. I should've clarified, I was speaking only to man's part here on earth.

When a man is perfect through his ability to forgive, he can judge others in confidence as God does and would gladly accept the consequences....
But he will not do it, for he knows that his own perfection comes from God, not any identity he may have with the world.

We must all pray for knowledge of both ourselves and God. We must never doubt God's presence within us at all times, and have confidence in the belief that everything we truly need has been provided before we ask for it.

Often we do not know what is best to ask for. This is when we can say:
Be it unto me according to Thy Word.

God has a plan for each of us for our perfection. May we accept it with complete confidence as it unfolds.

ben, what a pleasure it is to read your comments :). I started to copy parts I was really drawn to of the one above, then next thing I knew I was copying it all - ha.

May we accept God's plan for us with complete confidence as it unfolds. Amen.

The Mother of all Grace has called upon you, precious soul, and you shall be known as a great peacemaker and servant of God...

ben, what a beautiful thought.

I suspect Gather has another glitch ... I made a comment some time ago and it appears in my comment box but note here where I posted it ... so I will add it here one more time and see if it appears:


Jerry Kays Aug 8, 2011, 11:26am EDT
Consider please that "experts", be they our politicians or religious leaders, have always told us what our problems are in one breath and then offered their solution for them in the next breath ... it is a "package deal" ... they tell us what to Fear and promise us their love for us and promise to remove the problems we fear ... it is a package deal they have concocted.

That is also the source of evil ... scaring the hell out of us and promising a future heaven IF we play "Their" game. "They" have even invented a God for us to distract us, a God of "Their" definition ... one of extreme good, the polarized (+) with only other consideration allowed, the polarized bad, Evil as the (-) ... "They have basically hidden in the shadows above and claimed the "representation" below here, effectively in the "middle" ... just like the most of our politicians do ...

Yet "They" want us to effectively relate "Them" (to the degree we might think of them) as the (+) they claim to be the closest to ... while we are supposed to concern ourselves here and now with FIGHTING the (-) ...

To make "That" work, "They" have divided us to control us ... into two factions, the good and evil, the religious and secular, the Right and the Left ... even the Communist and the Socialist ... we then fight each other at "their" direction ... and "They" control the information (MSM etc)(Bible INterpretation etc) as to what we should think and act ... they pull the strings of the puppet leaders we see most visually just above us to maneuver us to "Their" advantage ...

Beware the God that "they" have provided for us ... ("their" definition of GOD being "their" God) ... the REAL GOD (not God nor gods) is very simply that found withIn us as our INtuitive Highest Truth and UNconditional Love ... it really doesn't get any better than that here on earth ... anything else is full of stress and conflict because of the divisive nature of the (/) in duality (+/-) ...

GOD's Spirit is the True meaning of Trinity in (+=-) ... bridging the Gap and Void of (/) with the Common Spirit of us all as the (=) ...

Please consider this ... it is NOT anti-God as much as pro GOD ... UNconditional Love and highest TRUTH ... the Truth That Will Set us Free !!!

IMnsHO (and experience)

Jerry, I wondered what happened to it? I think you're pretty much on the same page, spiritually, with the rest of us as believers. The bottom line in my book is, we as a nation better be praying to God for His strength and power to overcome the evils that confront us; and for His protections against the trials & tribulations and persecutions that face us. We all know the power of prayer. God is our mighty force.

I have never in my lifetime seen the darkest of evil as I see in this world today.

"God hath not given us the spirit of fear, but of love and of power and of a strong mind."

http://www.csper.org/renaissance-20.html
.

Jerry, I've only perused this for now but thank you, it looks very interesting. I'll do my best to come up to par so I can better discuss its' relevance.

Jerry, you know what I find too coincidental to be happenstance, as this seems to come up repeatedly in every financial scenario I've seen involving the government. That is the tightly woven involvement with government of one particular Wall Street firm: Goldman Sachs.

Even as Obama was supposedly raking GS over the coals in front of Congress about 2009, Obama was also said to be simultaneously and personally funneling private donation money to GS for purposes of implementing Cap & Trade, i.e., GS was one of the big Cap & Trade winners along with Al Gore.

Just an observation as I noticed GS came up again in the first video, though I haven't watched enough yet to know how relevant that is.

As important it would be to know which firm etc was doing what, the most important thing to get from it all is that very nefarious things are being done.

So who's idea what it for this "Super Congress"? Who decided that 12 could make a better decision than 535? It looks as though someone is trying to change the whole structure of our Country.

Susan, I was so disgusted with it I stopped paying close attention. Since the Old Guard Repubs, Boehner and his coherts, are said to have authored the deal I assume they wrote in there. Any benefit of doubt I gave to the Old Guard Repubs is gone now.

"It looks as though someone is trying to change the whole structure of our Country."

You are exactly correct, Susan. More than "someone" is.