by George Shaw
Member since:
February 16, 2006

Quotes from two of the Virginian Founding Fathers.

May 16, 2011 06:16 PM UTC
views: 0 | 17 people recommend this | comments: 52

Careful, these quotes could cause sleeplessness and anger.

 

"No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare. " -James Madison



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"The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home." -James Madison



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"Governments constantly choose between telling lies and fighting wars, with the end result always being the same. One will always lead to the other." -Thomas Jefferson



Comments: 52

Tropica G. May 16, 2011, 6:47pm UTC
Great quotes.
George Shaw May 16, 2011, 7:08pm UTC
Thanks, Tropica, I am glad you enjoyed them.
Jim G. May 16, 2011, 7:05pm UTC
1st Madison quote: U.S. foreign policy.

2nd Madison quote: Homeland Security Act.

Jefferson quote: Our country wouldn't lie to us, would they?

Who the heck were those guys, anyway? Did they have something to do with our country?
George Shaw May 16, 2011, 7:11pm UTC
As to the third quote -- I reached the point back in the 1950's where, in foreign policy and some domestic policy, if the government says it isn't doing something, I just take that as an admission they it is doing that.
Jim G. May 16, 2011, 7:25pm UTC
Now you're talking about being a conspiracy theorist, as was discussed on that other post today. Next thing you know, I'll find out that you had long hair & were marching in the streets back in the 60's! Captain Louie Renault would be shocked, shocked to know that you would behave in such a manner!
George Shaw May 16, 2011, 7:31pm UTC
I was starting to bald by that time, but I was leading anti-war demonstrations. Oh, and I had a beard part of the time.
Jim G. May 16, 2011, 8:13pm UTC
Hah!
Thomas R. May 16, 2011, 7:49pm UTC
You know it's getting bad when you have more hair on your back, in your ears and nose, than on your head!
George Shaw May 16, 2011, 11:10pm UTC
God only made a few perfect heads, she covered the rest of them with hair.
Lisa Frost Bailey May 19, 2011, 2:26pm UTC
lol
I reached that point at about 25. My name is (not) Nippy and I have alopecia.
Larry M. May 16, 2011, 8:03pm UTC
What do they know? They lived hundreds of years ago. Why should I pay attention to them?

Why should we learn from history and avoid the troubles that our forebearers experienced? Isn't it better to just do the same things over and over which never worked before and be surprised that they don't work?
George Shaw May 16, 2011, 11:10pm UTC
The U.S. keeps trying that. LOL
Larry M. May 17, 2011, 7:33am UTC
We are trapped by tradition (and foolishness).
George Shaw May 17, 2011, 8:07pm UTC
A lot more of the last. LOL
M O. May 19, 2011, 7:24pm UTC
We are worse off than being 'trapped in tradition', Larry. We are trapped in made-up tradition. It is now perfectly acceptable to distort and even fully re-write history to fit one's current agenda.
Elsie Duggan May 17, 2011, 12:52am UTC
These were very intelligent men, wish we had some in power today like them,
George Shaw May 17, 2011, 1:12am UTC
That would help, but I am afraid that the structure of the system has been allowed to change too much, and not change in good ways. Corporations and plutocracy now own the system.
Elsie Duggan May 17, 2011, 1:15am UTC
And isn't that just too sad George, there is no government of the people and by the people anymore, it is the rich over the poor, who can run for office when it costs so much, you have to be wealthy to get elected. I am saddened by this whole thing, One reason to be glad to be old, love, Elsie
George Shaw May 17, 2011, 1:31am UTC
Yes, it is really sad.
Ajatasutra Bharaputra May 17, 2011, 4:49am UTC
The US is doomed to repeat history because there are those of us who refuse to learn from it.
George Shaw May 17, 2011, 3:41pm UTC
Yes, it is sad. Thanks for stopping by.
Gail Mountain May 17, 2011, 9:07am UTC
What I find most interesting about these guys is that despite all of their human flaws, their prejudices and thier capacity for alcohol their work was about taking the best of history and leaving the rest and recognizing that the General Welfare (whatever that may be at any point in time) was a relevant to the success of our nation as anything else was -- perhaps, even more, perhaps even our real guiding light in the search for a "more perfect union."
William Windsor May 17, 2011, 1:27pm UTC
Well said, Gail. I agree.
Gail Mountain May 17, 2011, 1:42pm UTC
Thanks, William. Now if I can just get used to this new keyboard and stop making errors all over the place!
George Shaw May 17, 2011, 3:41pm UTC
People can have flaws (everyone does) and still be correct in many other things. The ones that really get me are the ones who scream, yell, and point fingers at people how have flaws and then egregiously display the same flaws themselves.
Ajatasutra Bharaputra May 17, 2011, 7:39pm UTC
Completely agree, George. Hypocrisy gets me going, too.
Gail Mountain May 18, 2011, 9:44am UTC
Just Say No to Hypocrisy, I say!
Vicente Duque May 17, 2011, 5:58pm UTC

Very interesting, thanks !
George Shaw May 17, 2011, 7:15pm UTC
Thanks, Vicente, I am glad you enjoyed them.
Sandra H. May 18, 2011, 9:43am UTC
You always find the most interesting quotes, George! These are all exceptionallly good ones!
George Shaw May 18, 2011, 9:52am UTC
Some of our ancestors were smarter than we think. LOL
Thanks for dropping by, Sandy.
Matthew M. May 18, 2011, 11:45am UTC
They are excellent quotes, and very true.
George Shaw May 18, 2011, 12:29pm UTC
Thanks, and thanks for dropping by, Matthew.
Lisa Frost Bailey May 19, 2011, 2:33pm UTC
you would think they would learn from repeatedly repeating history's mistakes,,,but alas no....sigh
George Shaw May 19, 2011, 3:24pm UTC
In order to learn from history, one must be willing to learn history and to think. Neither is as painless as watching Faux Noise, American Idol, and Dancing With The Stars.
Marilyn (PaintsOnSlate) S. May 19, 2011, 5:44pm UTC
Wouldn't it be great to have a world without war.
George Shaw May 19, 2011, 6:53pm UTC
Ah, we can dream anyway. Yes it would. It is too bad that we didn't evolve so that we actually felt what we did to others.
M O. May 19, 2011, 7:29pm UTC
these were only men, only human beings, but human beings with intelligence and vision. They were educated about the past, realistic about their present, and optimistic about the future. And they fortunately didn't lie to make things fit their agenda. I find today's politician to be a performer and a pleaser rather than a student of history and a visionary of the future. It's the same with the market now. Used to be that entrepreneurs were visionaries, willing to make some sacrifices now for future pay-offs. Now, all they care about is the next weekly call with Wall Street. This focus on now and immediate gratification is killing this country. Nobody knows the true meaning of sacrifice toward a greater goal anymore. The Founders knew - they would be appalled at the state of their country now.
George Shaw May 19, 2011, 8:05pm UTC
Yes, but we must not get to utopian a vision of the past. There were the stock jobbers then also. These same men warned us about the insatiable appetite of the corporations. Remember the "Robber Barons" of the latter 1800's and early 1900's.
M O. May 19, 2011, 8:18pm UTC
Greed has always been around as well as those who have no problem exploiting others for their own gain, George. But, I don't think the men you quoted were of such an ilk.
It's funny because the American Revolution was a middle and upper class revolution. Most of the founding fathers were well off from business or land. Their problem with England was the way England wanted to control the colonial economies.
M O. May 19, 2011, 9:18pm UTC
I do think it was a bit more than that, Nippy. No doubt there were economic incentives, but they were also well acquainted with Locke, Voltaire and many other writers and philosophers who were exploring the human spirit above and beyond the restrictive governmental structures of history.
George Shaw May 20, 2011, 12:01am UTC
Yes, M O., but they were not perfect -- remember, Jefferson had slaves, and he fathered children by his slaves. It is true that he manumitted them in his will, but he still kept slaves while he was alive.
M O. May 20, 2011, 9:02am UTC
I don't think that anyone's perfect, George. These guys included. However, they did have vision and were well-read realists. I believe President Obama to be that type of individual. I don't think he's perfect, much less a 'savior', but I do think he is an intelligent, well-educated person who also has a vision for the future, a vision that aligns with the principals this country was founded upon.
Nichole D. Feb 20, 2012, 11:05pm UTC
Interesting.

This post is featured at 100 Views!
George Shaw Feb 21, 2012, 7:48am UTC
Thanks for dropping by, Nichole.
Nichole D. Mar 3, 2012, 10:27am UTC
Good news! This post has reached 100 Views! Have a great day!
George Shaw Mar 3, 2012, 1:48pm UTC
Thanks, Nichole.

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