A friend called last night. She had been snow and iced in and was sick on top of that. “I couldn't get out anywhere and was about to go stir crazy,” she told me. “You know I'm not a fiction reader, and I apologize that I've never read your novel, but I read it yesterday and today. Mary, I can't believe it. Where did it all come from?”
She went on to discuss the characters in the book and the obstacles and events occurring each week as they meet with Annon, sharing with him and each other, their life changes
To say I was flattered is an understatement, but I had to tell her that I couldn't take credit for how each chapter unfolded, or how Annon helped them change their lives. I just typed the words as I sensed them in my mind. I told her I had no idea from one scene to the next what was going to happen to Elaine or Tony; I didn't know James or Mark were coming into the scene. The story began with Annon, Peter, Marcy, Tony and Alice. Only four had come the first night, in time there were eight. They surprised me as they each arrived for whatever reasons.
“Yes, but how did you know to move them along the way you did?”
I again explained I didn't. They developed their lives and I never knew where they were going or why. She mentioned her favorite part of the book was when Mark arrived and continually challenged Annon, determined to prove he was a cult leader.
“I guess he was my favorite character.” she said. “He was so strong and determined, and didn't back down when some of the others got angry at him.”
Then she asked me who was my favorite. I have been asked many times and as I think about it, I often tear up. I miss not being with them anymore. I looked forward to each daily session as I learned about what was happening in their lives. Besides Annon of course, who was my favorite character?
I liked Tony, even with his belligerent attitude. I admired Elaine who had overcome so much in her young life. Peter was ready to change. I knew he'd do well. I didn't think Alan would change much, he was so set in his ways and ideas. I felt sorry for Marcy, struggling with her weight and frustration with her mother. I guess I related most with Alice, older, divorced, missing her children. I was glad when she brought James to the gatherings. I liked him with his lawyer's mind and the logical questions he asked Annon.
As we talked about it, I realized how much I missed them. Should I write a sequel? Find out what's happening in their lives now, even though I know they aren't real. I don't know but it makes me wonder if all writers remember their characters long after they have written 'The End'.
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Comments: 98
Happy New Year and Happy Writing.
What's your most recent favorite book?
I admit though, the one I had to put on the backburner, for a while, was placed there because I have to know how the narrator's life works out. She's totally fictious, but I really like her. My other problem was expressing her bad side, along with her good side, without readers assuming she's all bad from the get-go. I'm beginning to fear characters have to be limited in their dimensions, so readers can pigeonhole them before the end of the first chapter. If that theory is proven, that book can't be finished.
I truly know nothing about any of my characters as they move through the story. I'm as new to what's happening as a reader who has just picked up my book.
I'm like you Mary in that I always go with the characters first. I have their names, maybe a brief description. But, after that, I just let the scene go on as if I'm not in the room.
These "characters" develop their own storyline. I don't make this up, in the sense that I have it planned ahead of time. Even if I do have a plot in my mind before I start, the story often takes a mind of its own and goes in directions even I didn't see coming.
It's always exciting to see the story unfold the way it's supposed to.
Angela--I know what you mean. My novel didn't even start with characters and I had no intention to write a novel. For days the words, "shadows of flickering candles danced on the wall like gyrating cave dwellings." It wouldn't stop until I sat and wrote them. It was like an "Open Sesame" experience. From there, the room set up, Annon became real, and everything just fell into place. When I edited it, that wasn't the first sentence but it still sets the scene in my mind.
Ah, I do know what you mean Mary. Those opening lines often come to me as well before I even write a story. Or I'm inspired by a prompt here on Gather, and I'm off to the races. I started a novel, that I have on my computer right now with a first line, that just wouldn't go away.
I will type it here: To begin at the beginning, would be the epitome of boredom.
So, it went just like that.
To begin at the beginning would be the epitome of boredom but how else can I explain the heart breaking death of someone I thought I cared about, especially the murder, even if it was self defense. I have to begin at the boring beginning because that's what my life was when Josh Taylor came into it, all six foot two of him.
I'm also shocked! I didn't know you could start a story without knowing characters intimately. I'm not saying you're wrong - I just didn't know. I know mine so well, I could tell you which hand they use to wipe - except, they'd punch me, if I did. Well, one wouldn't, but he'd give me such a look, it might as well be a punch. lol
Unlike you two, my stories start with a character, not a phrase. I think it's cool to learn the differences.
I think with my characters I would lose them when I try to develop them. It happened to me several times years ago when I heard the words in my mind and then tried to 'plot' it out. For me, I've got to put them on paper and then maybe go back and give them more detail.
However, if you start somewhere - anywhere and learn just 1 rule a week, you will have learned 50 rules a year and that is really all you need, because you'll be able to guide yourself from then on.
I love "The Grammar Bible: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Grammar but Didn't Know Whom to Ask [Paperback] by Michael Strumpf
Amazon. You can look inside. Or your library might have it. This book is thorough.
It is important to take a grammar book s-l-o-w-ly so you can absorb the rule and why it must be done that way (or in those ways).
Angela, editors expect good, clean copy, written in grammatically correct English. No editor can simply put in commas or change the 'who's to 'whom's or the 'that' to 'which' because it is more complicated than that,
But not to worry,
The thrill about understanding how grammar works is that your own writing improves, immensely, because you begin to understand language in a much more detailed way.
I am a panster. I have to get out the inspiration.
Then comes the organization. Then, more inspiration.
Then, more organization: Act structure, scene and sequel structure, writing for emotion, writing with flair, writing grammatically. Writing tight.
Creation is 1 percent inspiration and 99 percent perspiration. famous saying, could be Franklin.
characters are best if they are an archetype:
Think about this: Girl goes home after 20 years and finds an old flame.
But try this: Girl goes home after 20 years and finds her town bereft of the values it once had. She left the grungy, boring town to strike out on her own. She became a pilot, and would never have returned home, but for the funeral of her cousin. She discovered an old classmate there, her old flame, who just returned from the war, a decorated hero. They become reacquainted but once again they are split from each other, and vow to never leave each other, but he is called to war and she must fly into the war zone. Her desire to always help people always gets her in trouble. She never knows when to stop helping people, usually leading to her becoming an enabler.
She sees him lying on the ground and breaks her piloting assignment to help him in the war zone. She is dismissed from duty, but she saves him.
He also has a fatal flaw - his desire to not get too close to people usually led to him not staying in touch with the peiople he should stay in touch with, So when he realizes she's lost her job over him, he knows he has to change. He steps up to the plate and argues for her job back, that she should be a hero, because she saved his life.
What I did here: There are archetypes (alpha heroes and heroines) that are universally attractive; these are people who are leaders in their field; pilot or decorated soldier, not flying student or a ROTC student.
Our visceral reaction when reading about alpha heroes and heroines gets in gear. our pupils get larger we sit upright, we salivate. We want to be like these heroes. beta heroes, schlubs etc. never make it as heroes or heroines because nobody wants to be like them, because most of us identify all to well with the ordinary. we want to be super, like the characers in books, tv and movies.
now: everybody has a good quality. But that good quality can be taken to extreme, which leads to a fatal flaw - something that will take them down in the story. This is so important for the black moment, the crisis when everything is lost. we empathize with these characters because we have too many times in our lives when everything is lost; in books, tv and movies, things work out and readers want assurance that things will work out.
so the heroine's good quality is she helps people. it becomes her fatal flaw when she helps people at the expense of herself and she beomes an enabler. we all know dozens of people just like this.
the hero's good quality is that he is a bit of a distant, silent type, which stood him well in battle. it becomes a fatal flaw when he never lets any woman get too close to him, which is why after 20 years, he has never been married.
the heroine's fatal flaw intersects with the hero's fatal flaw. she is on the mission in the war as a pilot, but must help him and breaks her mission, a no no in war. For once, she did not become an enabler, but risked her career to save her old flame. When he realizes how she risked everything, he realized he wasted his entire life on staying uninvolved. her actions led to her court martial. her court martial led to him wanting to save her, just as she saved him. they each realize they had to change, and so they did.
this is entirely made up on the spur of the moment, but it shows how we have to marshall our inspiration into convention.
if you read the spines of books - the blurb at the back - and if you read the tv guide, you will notice how the description catches you in the jugular.
tv movie: after the worst disaster in the town's history, joe is assigned to lead a team to rebuild the town. when he finds out who he is workking with: the boy who bullied him throughout school, he backs out of the team. but after he finds the bully nearly dead, he and the bully make up and rebuild the team.
i made this up last year and mentioned it to my son, who said - that really happened with katrina. they are making a movie about it.
so the courses that rwa offer are so helpful in so many, many respects.
and scenes have to have certain elements:
scene goal, conflict and disaster.
sequels have to have:
reaction, dilemma, decision.
let's take the pilot and the soldier.
in the opening scene, she has a goal. the conflict is who or what stands in her way of achieving her scene goal. the disaster is when everything is multiplied.
Scene goal: to attend her cousin's funeral. conflict: her mother hosts a party the day before the funeral to get her acquainted with her old flame. she is mad because she hates the town and only wanted to go to the funeral. disaster: how could her visit get any worse? She realizes she's still in love with her old flame, thus throwing a wrench into her entire life.
sequel. (this takes place after the funeral and after hero and heroine go out on a date, where they continue as they did before they left 20 years earlier,
sequel: reaction, dilemma, decision. Her reaction: God, that was a mistake. it will never work out. He's here and I am in DC. what was I thinking? Dilemma. But it feels so right. How could I have forgotten about him all these years? could it possibly work out? Common sense says no. I do not want to be with him, logically, but my heart says otherwise. Decision: I can't be involved with him, but I have to go on a mission and will wait until my mission is over to tell him.
To comma or not to comma? That is the question.
I am a formalist, which publishers are, as well.
her good quality is she helps people.
his good quality is that he has a cool head, which is necessary in battle.
her fatal flaw is her good quality taken to extreme: in helping people, she is willing to risk everything to help them. here, she risked her job and her career.
his fatal flaw is that his cool head in battle doesn't work in love.
their good qualities intersected at the point of their fatal flaws, and this is when the character's arc comes in - they each realize they must change, and so they do.
I love what you did above--I feel like I want to get people to hurry over here and read your 'lessons'. Thanks for taking time to do it.
Lynn P. Jan 12, 2011, 6:27pm EST
Angela, I have a degree in Communications and STILL can't get the rules for commas. BUT I can't afford the editor, so I keep trying (and look them up each time I know I've hit one of my grammar hurdles again.)
I'm also shocked! I didn't know you could start a story without knowing characters intimately. I'm not saying you're wrong - I just didn't know. I know mine so well, I could tell you which hand they use to wipe - except, they'd punch me, if I did. Well, one wouldn't, but he'd give me such a look, it might as well be a punch. lol
Unlike you two, my stories start with a character, not a phrase. I think it's cool to learn the differences.
I do often start out with characters. What they look like, what they eat, a brief description of their personality and so on. But, other times I also just start out with a line and go from there.
Goodness Kathryn that was a ton of information up there. I could probably read the grammar book twenty times and still not get it. Over the course of three years here on Gather, I still don't know for sure where the commas go and what not.
Here is one example:Rule 1: You use a comma after an introductory clause.
For example:
In the first place, John said. . .
First, I'd like to explain. . .
However, John said. . .
Continuing with that example, we have others.
(the sentence above is another example of a comma after an introductory clause.)
Readers generally know what to look for and why but they don't always understand the details.
That was incorrect.
Readers generally know what to look for and why, BUT they don't always understand the details.
Rule 2: comma before a conjunction in a sentence.
If the two clauses are short, you might not need a comma before the conjunction. But that is rare.
Example: John went to the store and he bought food.
Comma could be optional here. It is rare not to use a comma before a conjunction of 'and' or 'but.'
John went to the store, but he did not find what he was looking for.
that is correct.
See how much clearer it reads with the comma before the conjunction?
If one writes: John went to the store but he did not find what he was looking for.
Read your sentences aloud. Slowly. You will notice when you put in punctuation when you read something aloud.
Read good literature at least once a week. Twain, Dickens, Austen. Even a few pages at a time. I know you say you only read Romance, but all writing is made up of complex thought processes and the actual language of commercial fiction does not reveal those processes in its vocabulary or sentence structure.
Reading 'better' books causes a reader to unconsciously absorb those rules and to absorb how and why those books are 'better' than standard commercial fiction.
the key with commercial fiction, as opposed to literary fiction, is that commercial fiction's value lies in its invisible plot structure and rarely in the 'beauty' of the words themselves. Commercial fiction strives for words that are clear and straightforward. Nobody ever accused Dickens or Austen of using clear, straightforward prose.
the key with commercial fiction, (as opposed to literary fiction), is that commercial fiction's value lies in its invisible plot structure and rarely in the 'beauty' of the words themselves.
the key with commercial fiction -- as opposed to literary fiction -- is that commercial fiction's value lies in its invisible plot structure and rarely in the 'beauty' of the words themselves.
rule 3: use of commas in apposition versus parentheses versus a long dash. There is more discussion over this.
Commas in apposition:
My brother, Sam, told Sara that he liked her.
We use a comma before and after Sam, because we set off the name "Sam" to note who "My brother is.'
In a longer sentence, we might want to use a parenthesis (if we are truly using the parenthesis correctly - like holding our hand in front of our mouth and whispering), or we might choose another method.
The long dash is used to note a break in the logic of a sentence. Imagine you are playing soccer. You're kicking the ball down the field toward the goal, when you suddenly change direction and kick it to the left (offsides). You would use an M- dash - a long dash -- two short dashes together,
Example: John kicked the ball down the field toward the goal post, but when he saw the opposition did not guard the left field, he did something he'd never done before -- he kicked it offside to Sam -- and then Sam kicked it into the goal, and scoring the winning point for the team.
So now, you understand a TON about commas. Not all there is to know, but some of the most common instances.
You can see how this sentence might read without commas:
Example: John kicked the ball down the field toward the goal post but when he saw the opposition did not guard the left field he did something he'd never done before -- he kicked it offside to Sam -- and then Sam kicked it into the goal and scoring the winning point for the team.
Except for the part set off by the long dashes, the sentence is difficult to follow.
Remember, a comma is a tiny breath point in a sentence. A period is a full breath point -- a full stop. Period. If you begin reading your sentences aloud, slowly - you will begin to see (and hear) where commas and other punctuation should go.
And when you read classic authors, even a page at a time (and study their use of language and punctuation), you will begin to see how and why they wrote as they did.
Classic authors tend to be wordier by our standards, but most of it is pretty darn good!
Do you really know what it is all about do you or do you think you know I am asking because you do know what it is all about but you think you don't.
'people thought she had everything - looks, money, fame. but she knew inside she was as insecure as the gal next door - the woman inside she still was, if only she could convince others that she was just another ordinary girl.'
if we wrote: she had everything, looks, money, fame, and she made sure everybody knew it. she'd turn against her best friend in a heartbeat if she could get ahead.
the second is an appealing villain. the fist is an appealing heroine,. put them together as former best friends and wow!
Another character that has now gone out of the soap was loosely based on one of my ex bosses sons who was a arrogant so and so, and I used to say to a few of my ex workmates that I only wished he would get his comeuppance, he did last year but only in the soap. I actually hope the producers bring him back so I can once again play out my fantasy again.
The world is full of characters that we can bring to life with our writing, they can be your friends, your workmates, the man who lives just up the road, the woman next door, family, you name them they are there just waiting to be brought to life in books in scripts in poems, even people from the past.
Another one
I've always thought I'd be good as a soap writer because characters are the main part of my writing and dialog my forte, at least the easiest part of my writing.
M, You should try and send some of your writing to one of your soaps, I dont know how they work over in America, but the one that I write for lets me write from home and send it to them, and I find that as long as I hit the deadline for the story I can write in my own time, when I want and as long as I want or as short as I want.
Lynn the people that were in my life when I worked with are as I perceived them in my mind apart from my friend who when drunk was a slime ball, only one person has told me that his character has come out like that person, he rang me up for a chat the other day and we got talking and he said to me doesn't that piece of slime sound and look like Huddy when he is chatting up women, I replied he should do thats how he should talk and look in the show. He did not know at the time that I was writing for the show. I hope he keeps my secret. But Huddy wont mind he has a good sense of humor(I hope) and will laugh at it all(again I hope)
Will do!
Re. remembering the characters we read about: I believe we read for different reasons; sometimes it's the characters we remember, other times the story line, and quite often I gain the most enjoyment from the style etc. used by the author. If the book is well written we should enjoy the characters and story as well. How the author uses language often fascinates me and I want to read every word.
Happy reading, everyone.
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Still, I don't do sequels "just to check in" with a character. I only do it if I know their story isn't done and it's not a traditional sequel either.
of characters created and given life
for a novel's term but die they'll not,
and now they give their creators strife!
Waiting for their life and time
Always ready to come alive
With open hearts and nothing to hide.
They take over, without our consent
And make us write until we're spent.
You beat my hurried doggerel!
It must be perchance at times a pain
ruled by the ghosts inside your brain!
Sometimes make me a fool
They taunt and tease
Do as they please
Leaving me to give them style
And make them all worthwhile.
Could there be a better or a nobler fate?
To this I would gladly pledge my troth:
But I'd sadly, talentless be too late!
Personally I believe the writers have a better link of the characters, names and sequence of events in their minds because the entire portrait and the story would be more vivid to them than what the readers experience in piecing out the story. Getting confused with one name or character, I believe, may be a temporary matter since every writer would rely on one or the other of their previous stories or novels in their future writings as well.
On the whole I must admit, every writer has a cut-out task remembering details so as not to lose track of the mainline story.
I must say your writings are chaste and quite interesting. Our wishes are always with you in all your endeavours. Have a nice day.
Annon's Secret Something Within on Kindle
So, what did happen to Art? Audrey doesn't stay in Scotland does she?
You know, I caught myself thinking about the times I have gone into mourning when I finished the book and lost contact with the characters, and wondered if that could happen to writers as well. I'm talking actual grief here, as if someone died.
If you do write a sequel, I will be first in line to buy the book!