Another big episode this week as I'm joined by David Safar and Mark Wheat. We discuss hot-off-the-presses new releases from the Baltimore duo Beach House, the new folk album from The Magnetic Fields & Chicago’s own OK-Go apparently have listened to our man Prince!
The cast also looks forward to the decade ahead and asks the question: What music trends do you foresee in 2010 & beyond?
Musicheads airs every Tuesday at 10 p.m. CT on 89.3 The Current.
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Comments: 28
I think 2010 will be a very big year for debut albums. And one of the things about those debut albums is they will be released quicker, and DIGITAL. Physical releases will come later, often in VINYL-only with a Download-Code.
It's not going-to-be, but I'd say it already is a reality: access to sampling an artist's music won't be 1st found/suggested on MYSPACE,
but instead FACEBOOK and iLIKE.com (even LAST.FM ) among some more artist and fan-friendly websites (with lower spam/banner levels).
myspace is becoming so 2008.
I also think 2010 will be a much better year for Metal and Extreme metal as there are already a couple of albums in that vein that might have trumped everything from 2009 already.
I just hope that the album doesn't die along with it.
Lemmy will continue being frickin' awesome.
Please save the Current from this curse.
Thanks,
JM
Current Founding member
MPR Sustaining member
Hip hop is the freshest, most creative musical force anywhere in the world today, and it has only just begun as an art form. Hip-hop is real: It comes from the streets, and with that comes a "hard" sound that appeals particularly to those who live hard lives. Similar to rock and roll, hip-hop is another gift America has sent to the world, shaping culture worldwide in how we think, and comes with a message just as clear. This time, however, it originated in the impoverished South Bronx if the '70s, then Brooklyn, then Philly, Chicago, and eventually South Central Los Angeles and beyond. Today, hip-hop is the vanguard of the world's poor music, thriving around the world, certainly in places like Brazil, Central America, the Middle East and in their youth.
It shouldn't be any surprise. Rock and roll requires a lot of time, practice, band coordination, and actually owning instruments. Hip-hop fills the void for those who don't have these. In its most stripped down form, all you need is your voice and a box in which to beat. With this comes a sense of urgency, one that could only come from those in the most trouble. That's why white kids from the burbs don't typically make great hip-hop.
Furthermore, the nature of pop structure makes getting that urgency through very difficult. Why should someone with a message be confined to lyrics that fit a tempo, bars, chords, harmonies, stanzas, and all that other lyrical stuff? That, in itself, is a revolution in how we think about music (and similar to punk). A hip-hop artist has much more structural freedom to say what they really want to say, without being confined. And they still make it rhyme! I'd like to see YOU try to rhyme like an MC. Rhyming is not easy! And it's pretty clear a LOT of people like hearing those rhymes as well, and the clearer message that comes with it. Rhyming takes real intellect, wit, guile, and humor.
Also similar to rock and roll, there is no "one" hip-hop. You'd be a fool to think it's all "rap." It's not. Rock and roll, in its infancy, only had a few distinct styles. Then, each style evolved, giving us punk rock, doo-wop, alt-country, disco, metal, straight rock, psychedelic, and a million other sub-genres that we all know today. Hip-hop is the same way, and just like rock and roll, there's a fair share of garbage out there. But there's much more hip-hop that is excellent, well crafted, and socially relevant - whether you recognize it or not. It's the Current's job to distinguish the good from the bad, and bring us that great music.
If you really embrace rock and roll, and everything for which it stands, than surely you can see how you sound just like old people who complained about "rock and roll" back in the '60s. Hip-hop is beautiful music.
Thanks,
DQ
NOT a founding member
MPR Sustaining member
Thanks for your thoughts, you make some good points. I think you missed my key point, I just can't see your mainstream Hip hop lifestyle person as a dedicated Current listener/supporter. I have to assume, this being Minnesota, that the majority of listeners have not lived a "hard street life", I certainly haven't, even though grew up in Chicago during the 60's. My life is easy, it's suburbia, a steady job, kids in college, it's the north woods. Hip hop has no social relevance for me. My guess is that hip hop people do not turn to the Current for their FM music fix either.
A little hip hop would be OK, but I feel the current goes overboard and tries to force feed it to us. I actually like some of the tunes, I just can't take the frequency and the anger or violence of some of this rap.
And please don't put me down because I can't rhyme, I can't beat a box either. Some of these "artists" can't rhyme either, they just mangle the language to suit their purpose. I like complex music. Frank Zappa is my personal favorite and I still like the Current even though they only played Zappa twice in five years. If I want rap I can go to the original example from FZ - I am the Slime 1973. Maybe this is all his fault?
I agree it is the Current's job to provide us with what is new and good, but it should be in sync with the demographics, a little HH is good, angry street rhymes, not good. I also agree with you that (some) HH is beautiful music, just leave out the rhymes in some other cases.
Don't put me down by comparing me to anti rock and roll fanatics, they wanted to abolish rock and roll, I just want to limit the hip hop play time on the Current. Hip hop can do whatever it wants, just please give me a little less.
50 years, a hundred years from now who will people remember? The Beatles? The Stones? Zeppelin, Zappa?, Mozart?, Elvis? Louis Armstrong? Slug?, Brother Ali? The memory of the last two will not make it out of this decade.
I have listened to in-studio interviews with these guys and I have to admit they seem like decent average people and they listen to all kinds of music. I have nothing against their art I just don't care for most of it. Feel free to immerse yourself just don't insinuate bad things about me because I prefer the other types of music.
Good day,
JM
John: "I just can't see your mainstream Hip hop lifestyle person as a dedicated Current listener/supporter."
How do you define 'mainstream'? Are you talking about the kind of music heard on B96? Are you implying that regular Current listeners don't listen to all types of music? I'd like to know.
John: "I have to assume, this being Minnesota, that the majority of listeners have not lived a "hard street life,"... it's the north woods."
Please. Having spent four years documenting urban blight on the North Side, and knowing South-Side Chicago like the back of my hand, I can say that's a total load of crap. But that's beside the point: Hip-hop today has nothing to do with what background one has. It's about feeling something. That's the point of all music - to make you feel something. For example, I think the Dandy Warhols are the most pretentious a-holes around. I still love their music because I feel cool as hell when I listen to them. The same goes for hip-hop and all the listeners out there.
John: "...but it should be in sync with the demographics, a little HH is good, angry street rhymes, not good."
Again, I'm very interested in how you are categorizing hip-hop (and why you keep calling it 'rap'). But you're missing the point here. The Twin Cities has one of the best hip-hop scenes anywhere in the US hands down!! How did it get that way? It can only build if there's a strong fan base. Demographics? You need to spend some time hangin' in the city at record stores, coffee shops, late-night restaurants and the like. In Uptown, Downtown, Dinkytown, Seward, Frogtown, East Side, Nordeast, Powderhorn, Rice Street, etc...everybody listens to hip-hop! And it's mixed in with everything else, just like what the Current plays. It's no longer about 'being hard.' As an art form, hip-hop has evolved past that.
And to prove my point, remember how important it is for the Current to play what's popular. To succeed, the Current must play what's in demand. Sure, I can think of many songs that I'd like to hear regularly. But if I'm the only one demanding them, the Current can't waste everybody's time satisfying me. Likewise, if I want to hear less of something because I don't like it, I put up with it because it's what the majority of my neighbors are requesting. That's how the Current succeeds: By satisfying the demands of the Twin Cities as a whole. Between that and the huge success of the local hip-hop scene, this should tell you something about your "demographics."
John: "...they just mangle the language to suit their purpose."
Seriously? Language is merely a tool for communication. It is not set in stone. It must and will always change.
If you don't like hip-hop, fine! To be honest, I don't listen to that much hip-hop myself (not that I don't want to, but there's only 24 hours in a day...). Nobody's "force feeding" it to you. If you don't like it, turn your radio to 91.1. But if you're actively saying you'd like to hear less of it for the reasons you've stated, I'll counter you by saying I want to hear MORE hip-hop! And I do.
Also, Frank Zappa = Awesome.
JM: I’ll see what I can do…
John: "I just can't see your mainstream Hip hop lifestyle person as a dedicated Current listener/supporter."
DQ: How do you define 'mainstream'? Are you talking about the kind of music heard on B96? Are you implying that regular Current listeners don't listen to all types of music? I'd like to know.
JM: Mainstream, strictly in reference to Current listeners: First of all I mean people who actually support the station with $$. Second, I consider mainstreamers to be people who rarely if ever listen to any other stations. Third people who don’t care for HH (j/k). I only have two buttons programmed on most of my radios, my truck has a third: WOJB for when I cross the border to the great state of WI. Why would I imply that regular Current listeners don’t listen to all kinds of music? If you listen to the Current constantly, by default you hear all kinds of music. What is B96?
John: "I have to assume, this being Minnesota, that the majority of listeners have not lived a "hard street life,"... it's the north woods."
DQ: Please. Having spent four years documenting urban blight on the North Side, and knowing South-Side Chicago like the back of my hand, I can say that's a total load of crap. … I think the Dandy Warhols are the most pretentious a-holes around. I still love their music because I feel cool as hell when I listen to them. The same goes for hip-hop and all the listeners out there.
JM: You need to get out of Uptown once in a while, and stay away from the N-side, there is really no reason to go there, except if you want to ride an MTB at Theo. You really think the N-side experience is Minnesotan? Come on man, that wasteland is a very tiny bit of this great state and not at all what this state is about. I stand by and update my statement: The VAST majority of Minnesotans have not lived a hard life.
You also might find a better life if you didn’t know so much about the Dandy Warhols. Time spent on the consumption of celebrity is wasted (unless you get paid for it like DJs for ex.). I know they are played on the Current, I probably like their music, but I have no idea who/what they are and that’s good for me, more time for enlightening endeavors. The same with the rest of what I hear on the Current, I know the songs I like when I hear them, and maybe after a few weeks I could tell you the artist’s name. I just listen and enjoy it, for the most part I don’t care who these artists are.
John: "...but it should be in sync with the demographics, a little HH is good, angry street rhymes, not good."
DQ: Again, I'm very interested in how you are categorizing hip-hop (and why you keep calling it 'rap'). But you're missing the point here. The Twin Cities has one of the best hip-hop scenes anywhere in the US hands down!! … By satisfying the demands of the Twin Cities as a whole. Between that and the huge success of the local hip-hop scene, this should tell you something about your "demographics."
JM: Thanks for the invite, but I am not missing anything, I am not into Hip Hop, never will be. You say: “One of the best hip-hop scenes…everybody listens to hip-hop” In my view they are Sheep. I suppose it is your age that makes you think that because everybody else is doing it, it must be cool. The late night scene is a faux lifestyle, eventually most people grow up and realize that boozing until 3 AM gets boring and expensive! If HH is so important and if the demographic is as large as you imagine, the Current would be an all HH station.
John: "...they just mangle the language to suit their purpose."
DQ: Seriously? Language is merely a tool for communication. It is not set in stone. It must and will always change.
JM: OK maybe I exaggerated.
DQ: If you don't like hip-hop, fine! To be honest, I don't listen to that much hip-hop myself (not that I don't want to, but there's only 24 hours in a day...). Nobody's "force feeding" it to you. If you don't like it, turn your radio to 91.1. But if you're actively saying you'd like to hear less of it for the reasons you've stated, I'll counter you by saying I want to hear MORE hip-hop! And I do.
JM: Why so passionate if you don’t listen so much? I can only image your response if I said disparaging things about Lemmy.
My perception is that HH started as a minor annoyance on the current, then became more frequent, bordered by more mainstream tunes(there’s that word again), to the present where extended HH sets are common. I am saying, please less Hip hop! I like 91.1, but I’d rather listen to music, the Current specifically. I do feel force fed because there really is no other music station in the area to turn to.
DQ: Also, Frank Zappa = Awesome.
JM: Well said.
after reading through, I think john is being a total dick. I agree with dan 100%. I'm going to steal your idea and do some quoting.
john: You really think the N-side experience is Minnesotan? Come on man, that wasteland is a very tiny bit of this great state and not at all what this state is about. I stand by and update my statement: The VAST majority of Minnesotans have not lived a hard life.
what planet are you living on? hailing from the great city of duluth, I know for a fact john is full of garbage. tourism brought that city back from the dead, but it's more like a zombie. my family suffered greatly when u.s. steel closed their plant down and the neighborhood is a shell of its former self. the range isn't much better. and in mpls, only recently has it gotten so nice. i seem to recall mpls being featured on the cbs evening news for its spike in homicides in 2006 along side cleveland and st. louis. or was it 2007?
but what i find more troubling is that john seems to think there's a prerequisite for liking music. again, john's a dick. liking music should never need qualifications. I think that's why dan gave you a history lesson about hiphop's beginnings because too many older people like you just don't get it.
clearly, john missed the point about the warhols. dan's right. it's about feeling something no matter who you are. i also love hiphop because it gives ne a different feeling than what I find elsewhere. three cheers to the current for delivering great hiphop!
john: In my view they are Sheep. I suppose it is your age that makes you think that because everybody else is doing it, it must be cool. The late night scene is a faux lifestyle, eventually most people grow up and realize that boozing until 3 AM gets boring and expensive! If HH is so important and if the demographic is as large as you imagine, the Current would be an all HH station.
WHO THE HELL ARE YOU TO SAY THAT?? that is the most ignorant thing I've heard in a while from someone with a straight face. it is NONE of your business how people live their lives. and again I agree with dan about the demographics. that's exactly how people live in the twin cities. and a lot of them live in the city to escape from morons like you john.
I don't like the idea of name-calling but after reading john's point of view I just can't help myself. john is a dick who is out of touch with reality. you don't even know what B96 is! listen to that and come back to the table.
john you're making no case whatsoever and getting beaten. good for you if you don't like hiphop. shut your cakehole and stop offending music-lovers everywhere like me. just because you can afford to be a member doesn't make you any better. you're rubbing that in our face and it makes me not want to be one.
Foul Mouth Frank: what planet are you living on? hailing from the great city of duluth, I know for a fact john is full of garbage. tourism brought that city back from the dead, but it's more like a zombie. my family suffered greatly when u.s. steel closed their plant down and the neighborhood is a shell of its former self. the range isn't much better. and in mpls, only recently has it gotten so nice. i seem to recall mpls being featured on the cbs evening news for its spike in homicides in 2006 along side cleveland and st. louis. or was it 2007?
John: Earth, last time I checked. Not sure what your point is Frank. I never said that life was easy for everyone in MN. I just said that for the vast majority of people here life is pretty good, for sure compared to the N-side of MPLS and some parts of Duluth. In MN many people count themselves as blessed just because “It could be worse”.
How many people live on the N-side and Duluth combined? A few more than 100,000. How many in MN? A little more than 5 million So based on DQ’s and your familiarity with 2% of the state, you conclude that life is tough? All areas of the state have pockets of despair. What I am talking about is the vast majority that are pretty well off. I have to believe that MPR members and listeners are from this latter group.
Again my point is that HH is not a major driving force in the lives of most Current listeners. Sure many listen, some many even really thirst for it. I believe most would not miss it if it disappeared.
FV: but what i find more troubling is that john seems to think there's a prerequisite for liking music. again, john's a dick. liking music should never need qualifications. I think that's why dan gave you a history lesson about hiphop's beginnings because too many older people like you just don't get it.
JM: I never said and never meant to imply that anyone needs a reason or needs to be qualified to listen, or to like, any type of music. I interpreted DQ’s history lesson as means to validate the existence of HH. I recognize that HH is a huge part of the lives and lifestyles of a small minority of Minnesotans; just as Rock and Roll and all of its variations is a huge part of the lives and lifestyles of a much larger number of Minnesotans.
FV: clearly, john missed the point about the warhols. dan's right. it's about feeling something no matter who you are. i also love hiphop because it gives ne a different feeling than what I find elsewhere. three cheers to the current for delivering great hiphop!
JM: I didn’t miss his point, I think your summary above does a good job of reinforcing the DQ’s point. I totally agree, people listen to music because it makes them feel, I just don’t feel good when I hear HH.
john: In my view they are Sheep. I suppose it is your age that makes you think that because everybody else is doing it, it must be cool. The late night scene is a faux lifestyle, eventually most people grow up and realize that boozing until 3 AM gets boring and expensive! If HH is so important and if the demographic is as large as you imagine, the Current would be an all HH station.
WHO THE HELL ARE YOU TO SAY THAT?? that is the most ignorant thing I've heard in a while from someone with a straight face. it is NONE of your business how people live their lives. and again I agree with dan about the demographics. that's exactly how people live in the twin cities. and a lot of them live in the city to escape from morons like you john.
JM: I agree it is none of my business how people live their lives, but I am entitled to my opinion. Sorry, a touch of sarcasm and hyperbole does not always translate well in forum form.
Look around the room next time you are out. You will probably see some familiar faces, most of similar age. These people probably have some things in common with you. Just people out to experience some music and social contact. Now look over there in the corner. See the older lonely guy or gal? They didn’t make it out of this lifestyle. Like the others in the room, many years ago they came looking for entertainment, but for whatever reason they never found something more fulfilling.
Luckily they are the exception. Most people, probably even you and DQ will grow into some other lifestyle. You will find less and less time for night life and I hope you will be happy for it. I have to admit that I miss it a little, but for me now when I do go out, it is a somewhat sad experience to see too many people who don’t know when to say when.
There is much more to life. The sooner you find that something and that someone, the sooner you will come to enjoy the real meaning of life. You may still on occasion desire the experience of the Uptown/Downtown scene, nothing wrong with that, but I hope you will come to realize that it is not a truly fulfilling lifestyle. There is so much more to living.
FV: I don't like the idea of name-calling but after reading john's point of view I just can't help myself. john is a dick who is out of touch with reality. you don't even know what B96 is! listen to that and come back to the table.
JM: I guess you didn’t catch my sarcasm. I know B96 is a radio station, that for me has no relevance. You did make me look at their website though. Brittany, Timberlake, Beyonce, and the IQ question of the day, multiple choice, “What is the capital of FL?” No relevance confirmed.
It is easy to restrain yourself from name calling if you have clear thoughts and ideas to express and if you have respect for others. I give you the benefit of the doubt, I try to see your points, and try to further mine. Give and take in a polite way.
john you're making no case whatsoever and getting beaten. good for you if you don't like hiphop. shut your cakehole and stop offending music-lovers everywhere like me. just because you can afford to be a member doesn't make you any better. you're rubbing that in our face and it makes me not want to be one.
JM: I disagree, two on one is not exactly a beat down. Sorry if I have offended anyone. I do not think of myself as better than someone who is not a member, but I do feel more entitled to express my opinion about the music on the Current. After all, this thread started as a question: “What music trends do you foresee in 2010 & beyond?” I expressed my opinion, again with a touch of sarcasm that can be difficult to convey and that sent you and DQ off on a tirade.
I don’t expect HH to completely disappear. I just would like less and for the remainder to lean towards the opposite end of the spectrum from rap. An example would be the song that features a skate boarding character, kick, push, kick, push. I can’t argue that this is not a great tune. It is in my opinion this is the flavor of HH that plays well with more current listeners than “Don’t believe the hype”.
And don’t forget, it is pledge week. Stay home this weekend and give your beer money to the station. Every listener, any amount.
Peace.
Please read more carefully, I spent a lot of time composing these thoughts in response to specific points made by DQ and FV. Just trying to give my point of view and dodge the daggers.
Actually, I've received several emails from people saying they agree with me. So I'll make one last comment. And Frank, I appreciate your thoughts. I firmly agree with you. However, Bill's right. You really shouldn't reduce this conversation to name-calling.
Frank: "but what i find more troubling is that john seems to think there's a prerequisite for liking music. ...liking music should never need qualifications."
John: "...I recognize that HH is a huge part of the lives and lifestyles of a small minority of Minnesotans; just as Rock and Roll and all of its variations is a huge part of the lives and lifestyles of a much larger number of Minnesotans.
"A small minority"? That's why we think you're out of touch, John. And unless you can show some numbers to prove this point, it's strictly your opinion - one which I find rather unfounded and warped.
Regarding geography, Frank also has a point. Look, we have a great state. There are states that have it much worse than us. But John, there are also states that have it much better. Basically, we're slightly above average. I too am left with the impression John thinks hip-hop is only justified if you've lived a difficult life. For that, I'm offended by this insult to our intelligence. Hell, I'd like to hear why hip-hop is so popular in Massachusetts, Oregon, Canada, Western Europe, etc! Or for that matter, how three middle class Jewish kids from Manhattan came to be so successful as The Beastie Boys...IN THE 80's!!
But seriously, don't answer that. That discussion is over. It's CLEAR that hip-hop transcends EVERYONE, regardless of location, upbringing, class, and whatever some people want to think to prove some weird point about how we *should* live...
John: "See the older lonely guy or gal? They didn’t make it out of this lifestyle. Like the others in the room, many years ago they came looking for entertainment, but for whatever reason they never found something more fulfilling. ...Most people, probably even you and DQ will grow into some other lifestyle. You will find less and less time for night life and I hope you will be happy for it. ...There is much more to life. The sooner you find that something and that someone, the sooner you will come to enjoy the real meaning of life."
John, THAT is offensive. What do you mean "grow"?? Clearly you have an vision of what people *should* be. If YOU'RE what the rest of us should be, then I HOPE I DIE BEFORE I GET OLD.
At this point, John has shown how judgmental and narrow-minded his world outlook is, and how it affects his view on hip-hop. What's more, he's so set in his ways that further discussion is pointless.
I'm not going to waste any more time talking to a...
*sigh* Thanks, Frank.
LONG LIVE HIP-HOP.
The Current is not just an MN radio station, like it or not. People from all over Earth can and do listen. MPR has to position it this way, and the station is a feather in MN's cap.
Any station that claims to be on the edge of where music is heading, has to include the progressive forms of hip hop. Otherwise you're just not on the edge, you're Cities 97. I think it's time to stop partitioning music so much; one of the things I like about The Current is that the mixes break down barriers between genres of music, which actually stimulates a sense of unity.
Bringing this back around to the topic, I hope to see more philosophical influence in music. I'm not talking about the kind of sentimental balderdash that Common indulges in on Changes from his latest record. I mean real, challenging streams of thought, like Inhale from the same record, or the stuff I'm trying to do.