Open discussion: Democrats' health care reform bill passed in the House

am strongly opposed to the tax on individuals who do not have health care and strongly opposed to continued cutting physician reimbursements (would you like your paycheck cut?). If you can't afford healthcare now, the government is going to tax you $1500 per person that's not covered. So if you can't afford healthcare now, when the premiums go up, you definitely can't afford it and now your family could be paying thousands extra in taxes? Some of the reform has promise (extending medicare/medicaid), making it so all people can buy health insurance. I believe this bill could be done in a way that would not cost so much, cover more people and be fairer.

How do those without HC pay for their medical emergency? Clue: counties/indigent fund picks up the tab. $1500 is a small amount to fund their fair share.

cutting physician reimbursements (would you like your paycheck cut?)

Gee, last time I saw my doc, it was $75 for less than a 5 minute visit. So I calculate he makes as much as 900 an hour, how much are we going to cut?
Personally, if I was making that type of money, I think I could afford a small paycut.

Precisely, Rude.

You need to consider: Doctors "fee" has to include overhead of operating (rental, electricity), their staff, medical malpractice, lots of fees for prescribing/maintaining license, equipment, continuing education. Do you pay a restaurant just a chef's salary for your meal -- no there's a lot more that goes into it. They don't get paid for any "time" answering phone calls, writing chart notes, communicating with other doctors, fighting with insurance companies to get things reimbursed, etc. (Hey its America if the insurance company doesn't cover it -- too bad why should I pay it is a common attitude). Most physicians if they charge "75" for a visit will get 20 or 35 in reimbursement. Try really doing the math. Oh and I don't consider 10-30% a year every year a "small" pay cut.

Actually counties/indigent fund doesn't always "pick up" the tab. Do you realize how often the hospital or the physician "picks up" the cost? As far as emergencies (one aspect of healthcare) not all those WITH insurance are covered. If you go and aren't admitted, because that chest pain wasn't a hear attack, you might be picking up the entire tab. If you can't afford to pay, you are still liable for the entire amount. If you have a tiny income, you qualify for medicaid.

If you can't afford health insurance, you are likely to not get regular care. Lack of regular checkups, or caring for chronic problems leads to worse problems - ER problems. Now let's penalize these people $1500/person/year. Now you really can't afford health insurance and if you were managing to afford some doctor's visits, your probably aren't. So yes, I have a problem with the tax, because it is going into the IRS, the federal government and not doing anything for healthcare. Now if you want to make medicaid/medicare available for $1500 per person per year, I'd consider that more reasonable.

I am not arguing there aren't real problems with our health care system. Costs could certainly be decreased. For instance, we need to find ways to stop having people use the ER as a primary care center. Can you argue that costs in the government should be decreased as well? The bill has some good ideas to make health care insurance move available. I'm not calling the entire bill bad, but as written, I am in opposition.

BTW, I know it's impossible to change your mind, so I'm not trying. However, it bothers me... you're all for having other people pay extra money, but you are whining about a $75 bill? Should everyone but you pay the costs?

Is perhaps a reasonable option to have "emergency" national health insurance, where everyone pays $500 or whatever in taxes for that health insurance? I'm not opposed to opening a discussion on extending/requiring health insurance. I am opposed to taxing people for not having health insurance, but not giving them health insurance for that "tax." I have yet to see where this tax money is going into health care, into insuring those who don't have insurance.

It depends on what they are used to. Health care costs have gone up by double digits, far in excess of inflation. To think that a pay cut is unacceptable is hard to defend.

My rep. Michele Bachmann you got to be kidding. Everyone knows how she will be voting on almost anything 100% Conservative and 0 percent liberal.

I usually don't agree with a one sided brain person on very much.

The Representatives from California voted "Aye" as we expected.

Thank you for this list and information, Julia.

Can't take credit for the roll call link - thankfully Scheck had it handy - but I'm glad to see it was useful for this discussion, Elizabeth!

It is still very much appreciated. Thank you.

I find myself not that worried about the $1500 charge for people refusing to pay for health insurance. I mean, in theory it's a loss of freedom. In practice, who would refuse health insurance if they actually had enough money to afford it?I mean, that's a serious death wish. And then some of those people develop genetic diseases, cancer, or a heart attack, and run down to the emergency room to mooch off the rest of us.

Yeah "freedom" is nice. But at the same time, no man is an island.

Again, where is the tax money going... if you want to mandate "national emergency health insurance" for those not covered, that's one thing. But charging those without health insurance a tax, is not providing them health insurance. Those who go to the ER are still liable for that money even if they don't pay it.

Again, I also see a lot of positive in this bill, but can't support it as written.

In a perfect world, we would actually just start from scratch. Socialized medicine? the problem is that it's not socialized enough.
Either go to completely out of pocket- rich folk get health care, the rest of us die- or go with not for profit medicine. Why should our health care money end up on Wall Street? I am okay with the doctor getting paid, the hospital getting paid, but why does Wall street need my health care money?

It's a sausage factory, congress. Try to create a better way to do things, but the problem is that the people who already are getting paid want to get more paid. Health insurance produces nothing, it just eats one fifth of our health care dollar. But this effort to reform health care is the only game in town. If we throw it away, we wait another 20 years with 700,000 of us going bankrupt every year from medical costs, then try again in utter desperation. That alternative to action does not really look great to me.

This bill, as passed by the House, is a giveaway to the insurance industry. To pat themselves on the back for passing this crime against the American public, is the ultimate example of chutzpah.

The Senate will further dilute it so that it is worse than useless. I can't believe that anyone with an ounce of brains doesn't see that we have been had royally here.

One step forward, one mile back.

Exactly, Tim.

WBSA

If we are all honest, we will admit that the jury is still out. For one thing, the Senate bill language hasn't actually been put forward for a vote yet. After that and assuming it passes, there could still be changes in the language.

Only time will tell how well it works, but there is one fact that is indisputable: without reform, this country is only going further into the economic tank. Insurance companies have no incentive to stop skirting laws and regulations in order to increase their profit -- which, in turn, is hurting the bottom line for honest companies who employ a lot of people and hurting the pocketbooks of average- (and even high-middle) income families.

There's so much more to say about this, but (especially for those who are more worried about dollars than anything else) it would be financial suicide for this country to continue ignoring the situation. We can't afford to wait one more legislative session, or one more year, or one more political cycle. We are already showing up late --- very late.

If we took a portion of the war budget and used that to pay for health care, I would be for that...or maybe some of the millions/billions that we give to the huge corporate farms to not farm...maybe we could use that money...or the sugar and tobacco subsidy money, or the money we use to destroy the old growth forests so that the logging companies can go in and harvest the wood and not pay enough to the American people for it.

Largest government power grab in in decades. 111 new boards or agencies required to police the new law. This, like every other entitlement program will balloon way larger and cost multiple times more that first cost.

If this goes thru, the government will now control your health care. When they control your healthcare, they can micromanage your life. I just can't see why people are so willing to give up their freedom.

It's amazing how short sighted many Americans are. The government agencies alone will dwarf the profits insurance companies were earning. This was such a careless act by congress, they will pay for this next election.

"If this goes thru, the government will now control your health care. When they control your healthcare, they can micromanage your life. "

Winston: You are full of crap, as usual. Would you prefer that the for-profit insurance companies control your life as they do now?

Either way, we are still way behind the countries, who figured out, how to give a pay cut to the health care industry.

But I can switch insurance companies if I don't like the service. I can't change my government policy.

Why is that full of crap Jim? Just because I like freedom? Liberty?

Yeah? Try sawitching if you have a "Pre-existing" condition, Winston. They can find a million ways to cut you off, or jack up your premiums to an unaffordable level. Can't happen to you? Good luck.

I haven't seen a premium cap in any of these bills either.

Don't get your panties in a bind repugnicons , IF this bill in it's current rotten form or any other makes it through the industry owned senate it will indeed be a miracle.

Because the senate is where bills that benefit the majority go to die.

Now if you want to invade a sovereign nation that's a different story.
If you want to give the rich,the banks , wall street , and big business the keys to the safe , no problem.

Handcuffs and Jailtime

I hope this doesn't make it through the senate. If we can just get to the next election then we can take away this super majority the dems currently have.

I just laugh at all those bumper stickers that say "keep your laws off my body"!

This law gets the government in your pocketbook as well as all your body cavities!

Lets not give our freedom and liberty away!

people enjoying freedom for the first time!

Check out this great video that illustrates what happens when Government-Run Health Care takes over. It makes the referees into players. The Public Option: A Flagrant Foul. http://bit.ly/3KB2mO

No one has mentioned that discussion of the changes just happens
to coincide with a veritable boom in offshore medical services -- Asian, Mexican,
Canadian, European. Mandatory insurance just in time?