HAS THE SENATE GONE BONKERS?
Slipped into the Senate version of the healthcare overhaul is a little-noticed requirement that would obligate insurers to consider covering Christian Science prayer treatments. Leaders of no less repute than Orrin G. Hatch (R-Utah) and John F. Kerry (D-Mass) are proponents of the measure.
What this reveals more than anything else, perhaps, is the ridiculous extent to which strong lobbying efforts can bend the will of our political leaders. Over the years, the Christian Science Church has conducted an intense lobbying effort at different levels and in several states and this has not been without its successes. The church has made progress pushing its spiritual-healing agenda and other issues as well. Massachusetts, for example, now allows residents to opt out of its mandatory health insurance program for religious reasons. And, last year, Iowa allowed parents with religious convictions to pass up the mandatory childhood screenings for lead poisoning.
Is this crazy? Exactly who does this leave out there to represent the interests of the children?
The facts of the matter are not too pleasant to digest. A 1998 study in the journal Pediatrics, authored by Rita Swan, president of Children's Healthcare Is a Legal Duty, and Seth Asser, a Rhode Island pediatrician found that, in the 20 years after states began exempting faith healing, 172 children died without medical care because of religious reasons and 140 of them would have had a greater than 90% chance of survival with proper treatment.
Last year, 15-month-old Ava Worthington had no one to advocate for her when she died in Oregon from a cyst on her neck that impeded her breathing and eating and finally contributed to a fatal attack of pneumonia. In the trial that convicted her father of criminal mistreatment, the state medical examiner testified that Ava could easily have been saved with antibiotics. Instead, she died on a Sunday evening as family and church members prayed over her and anointed her with olive oil.
Proper treatment could also have saved the life of 11-year-old Madeline 'Kara' Neumann of Wisconsin who died last year after her parents failed to get her the medical attention she needed for undiagnosed diabetes, relying only on prayer. The mother and father were convicted and received lenient sentences from a sympathetic judge.
There are many similar horror stories of helpless children who have died because of the misguided religious beliefs of their parents. It is nothing less than disgraceful that the highest legislative body of our government has now given legitimacy to this barbaric practice.
In the final analysis, the situation begs the question - is there no limit to what money and favors can buy in Washington and in our state capitals?
NEED AN OPERATION? PACK A BIG BAG
Is healthcare going global? There are some strong indications out there.
Last week, a company named International Hospitals, with offices from Singapore to South America, was managing a half acre display in Century City to attract the attention of insurers and employers. The carrot-on-the-stick was low cost surgery through something called medical tourism.
The procedures in question involved such serious conditions as hip deterioration, cancer and heart problems. And the pitch was very specific. In a typical situation, the patient and a companion would be flown to a foreign country on business class where they would be put up in luxurious private rooms. They would be provided with a vehicle, a driver and a concierge. The total cost, including transportation, accommodations and the operation, would be, at the most, one half of what it would cost in the United States. The employer or insurance company could save tens of thousands of dollars per procedure. The destination countries mentioned were Turkey, Thailand, Costa Rica and India.
An example that was given indicated that a $45,000 hip replacement surgery in the U.S. would cost $5,400 in India, so even with $10,000 to $12,000 in travel and accommodation costs, the savings would be considerable.
However, given the relative absence of public data on the quality of the care involved and the questionable degree of recourse for injured patients, it would seem that one might safely assume that nothing will come of this.......right?
But hold on, if the last few years have taught us anything it’s that the lure of money seems to trump all other considerations. And, to be sure, there are indeed some early indications of interest on the part of insurers.
For example, a Blue Cross Blue Shield website has suddenly started describing its business as involving global healthcare. Furthermore, a speaker from the parent of Pacific Care was at the Century City conference providing advice on how to influence employers to induce their employees to obtain overseas surgery.
If healthcare globalization catches on, it would seem that the U.S. system could eventually be stuck with mainly those patients who would be too sick to fly. And, interestingly enough, this would not be entirely unlike the possible final chapter of industrial globalization which could see an exodus of U.S. corporations moving overseas to be nearer their customers and employees and to avoid their inevitably rising tax burdens, thus eventually leaving this country stuck with mainly those companies that would be too sick or too small to move.
In any event, the very fact that medical tourism is being promoted is a sad commentary on just how bad the U.S. healthcare situation has become.
Dave McGill, News Correspondent
Dave’s column, “The Contrarian,” generally published every Friday, to Gather Essential News and other groups will sometimes present a contrary view to various aspects of the news, or an alternate take on the conventional wisdom of the day. It will also often appear on other days of the week
Dave has been a senior officer of an eastern insurance company, involved in economic projections and investment strategy, president of a Midwestern mortgage banking company, and a financial consultant in Southern California, serving clients in the field of commercial real estate development.
You can find all of Dave’s “the contrarian” columns at: http://gather.com/thecontrarian. Keep up with Dave’s other postings and Gather activity by joining his Gather network at: http://atadaskew.gather.com. You’ll find Dave and other News correspondents, plus celebrity content and plenty of news experts at: news.gather.com.
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Comments: 78
A lot of children are home schooled today and not in the public view so the schools are not able to pick up on this abuse and some people even run away to avoid getting children medical help.
I am not surprised at Kerry either and know he has never been trustworthy. My question is why are these secret amendments allowed to be hidden in any bill? I don't believe this could happen if our congress were made to read every bill before voting on it. Today the bills are purposely made long and complicated to discourage reading them even by congressional staff.
The public has always put more emphasis on campaign money to decide who is the best candidate instead of digging into their record and finding out what their real stand on issues are and they are also allowed to lie to get votes.
The only chance America has to survive is to take all private and corporate campaign funding out of our political system from local to national elections and give each candidate equal public funds for their campaign but of course we know it is to late for that. Our states can also enact term limits on all elected public servants to stop the corruption.
I believe the health care legislation we finally get will not be any better than the system we already have. Both parties are sucking up to corporate cronyism and the public is to busy watching who is sleeping with who in Hollywood to pay attention to losing their government.
Or possibly have an actual media that reports the truth (instead of Obamaganda) so that the people can hold government accountable....
Our legislators are listening to K-street and tuning out the voters. It's time to fire them all.
I think that it is important to remember how prayer or positive thinking can help a person but it is more important to know these cannot replace medical intervention.
Truly amazing that Kerry would support this.
Must be a political move.
I cannot believe he actually supports this in his mind.
Hatch, yes. He is a Mormon. But Kerry, no.
Must be political and he wants to get the religious right on his side.
Kerry: FUHGETTABOUT IT. You're not going to be PREZ. Weird face and weird wife and your whole package just doesn't work. I say this as someone who WORKED for you.
Romney: FUHGEDDABOUT IT, too. You won't be Prez, either. You're MORMON. Even with the increase in the religious right, I am glad that the Evangelicals do NOT consider MORMONISM to be one of them.
The thought that Romney or another Mormon could be Prez someday gives me chills.
I pity those parents; they'll have a lot to answer for when they face their Maker. Their refusal to use traditional medicines reminds me of the old joke about the man who drowned and asked God why He hadn't saved him. God answered, "I sent you a weather forecast, and you ignored it. I sent you a man in a boat, and you refused a ride. I sent you a helicopter, and you refused a ride. WHAT WERE YOU THINKING??"
Another fact is that 80% of all hydraulic Engineers in 2012, will also be Qualified in India, Making them the largest engineering base in the world.
More Indians get a university degree than any other country in the world.
It is why native Americans, Australian, and Uk students seem to take up all the lower degree placings, like Art, and Environmental sciences, ... the lowest degrees issued by a University. Soon they may even have a degree for Twittering for twits.
The possibility of insurance paying for medical care or surgery in other countries sounds like it will work, and would be an indication of the decline and future fall of the United States of America.
If you read this article carefully, you'll see the only factual information about overseas care, is that it is cheaper. Oddly, you and the author have decided this means better, and that is why people would leave the country for medical care.
It isn't about quaility, it's about money, nothing else. The USA continues to lead the world in research and application of new medical technology. There is little doubt in any logical mind, the USA has the finest medical care in the world. It just happens to be costing more and more and more and more to deliever. It is the rising costs that cannot be contained that is the weak link of the American medical system. Medically however, there is no other place better.
No, I don't believe in God as portrayed in the bible, but that does't mean I don't believe in a creator and higher power. I do believe in prayer and praying for other people. But when children's lives are in danger, I sure wouldn't let them die rather than get the best medical help I could for them. I do believe power of positive thinking is only good for the thinker for himself.
I disagree with very much about the issues you brought up about foreign care. I did not say it was better, but I think it might be. Where they are dangerous is in the protective laws we have dealing with health care and surgury in this country. Because surgury in foreign countries is much cheaper it is available to more of the general public than in America. Perhaps you are right that America has the best medical care in the world, but it is only available to those who can afford to pay for it. We rate down with third world countries, about 34th, in infant mortality and in death because so many people can't afford health nsurance, and the insurance companies often deny care to their policy holders on trumped up charges. We have the most expensive health care,d but don't have much to show for it. The only good in our system goes to the health care insurance and pharmaceutical corporations. I'm not talking logic, I'm repeating s well known and well reported statistics.
That was back in the 60s and 70s. Not now. Not any more.
Keep up, my friend. Get your "new facts" updated, please.
Wilka
You might get the best medical care available, however that's your choice, as it is the choice of many to simply pray. There is no justification in the Constitution to remove the power from the paret, and give it to the state. It is that simple.
Ruth, Kathy, and Karl,
From Dr. Susan L. Goelzer:
The United States leads the world in medical research and specialty healthcare, but in many ways our system is at a breaking point. This presentation will examine just how costly, complex, confusing, and often times outdated the U.S. health system really is -- and why it is simply not up to the challenge of the 21 st century.
From the Federal Reserve:
Media reports have focused on Americans traveling abroad in search of affordable health care, but foreigners spent 10 times more on U.S. medical services than we spent overseas in 2006. The United States leads the world in medical research, helping doctors and hospitals offer patients advanced care they may be unable to find in their home countries.
From the National Institute of Standards and Technology:
The United States leads the world in medical research, and boundless opportunities for innovation exist in the health care sector. Creative companies will seize these opportunities and develop new health care technologies and bring them to the market— creating new businesses and new jobs.
And what did I say that you disagreed with?
The USA continues to lead the world in research and application of new medical technology. There is little doubt in any logical mind, the USA has the finest medical care in the world. It just happens to be costing more and more and more and more to deliever. It is the rising costs that cannot be contained that is the weak link of the American medical system.
Exactly what the EXPERTS say on the subject. American experts. I hope you don't have a problem with THEM.
Maggie May, don't you read or listen at all to the horror stories from people who always had health insurance, but when they desperately needed to use it were denied the care prescribed by their doctors? Don't you believe them? Do you have to experience it for yourself before you see the sorry state to which health care in America has sunk?
Of course I believe them, so what? When the number having problems is a fraction of the whole, it becomes difficult to look beyond logic. Our healthcare system delivers first rate care, so much so that most people are quite satisfied with their doctors and insurance. Why do you suppose an Obama mantra was "you can keep your current doctor and insurance plan."
Even if I happen to fall prey to the difficult circumstances you bemoan, it won't change the fact I am one of few, in the larger scheme, and though it might cause me emotional distress, it won't diminish the care received in the hospital. I think you are confusing the process with the care. Once thing has nothing to do with the other. The medical profession cannot control the activities of the insurance companies causing the problems you cite.
By the way I forgot to thank you for your compliment about my name, so I'm thanking you now.
I see you are still at it, twisting my words and thoughts. People can pray all they want for healing, but not at the expense of defenseless children. I do not think parents have the right to let their children die because of their religious beliefs. Children have rights too in this country. They are not just possessions of their parents. If their parents are so misguided, maybe I should say nuts, the law has the right to step in and protect the child.
People can pray for healing all they want to, but taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for it as if it were health care. That is not scientific and it is mixing the power of church and state which is against the primary tenet this country was founded on.
"The difficult circumstances you bemoan".... I guess bad luck can't happen to you, I'm just bemoaning into the air. Actually discussion with you is just like talking to thin air. I don't see any point in it. You can't be bothered with anyone else's ideas or experience because you think you know it all already. You don't -and it looks like you don't want to learn. So sit back with all your smug self satisfaction and enjoy your breakfast.
As for bad luck and thin air, keep in mind I have been posting to you.
Religion is great (for some folks) but I consider letting your child die, because you're a zealot is tatamount to child abuse and murdering your own child. The parents need to go to jail like any other murderer. Withholding critical health care for children--for whatever reason--should be the number one agenda for the anti-choicers.
I just don't "get" this nation of strangers anymore.
I really miss logical people. I really do.
Wilka
You're getting your panties in a wad about 140 kids over 20 years (per your cited study) so you use that data to want the state to be able to trump the wishes of the parents. Yet you take the totally opposite position with regard to the 20 million babies aborted during the same period.
Your conclusion on health care is also wrong. The quality of the US system is better than those "in a hut" overseas hospitals. You get what you pay for. I offer to perform needed surgeries on my friends all the time. They haven't taken me up on it yet because they perceive the quality to be much less (although the cost is also less). Same reasoning.
Ask him what he thinks of the Children Health Health Insurance programs funded by federal, state and local taxes. He is 100% opposed.
Link..
http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474977882248
However, if religious reasons prevents the consent of medical treatment by the parents, you'll have to learn to live with that, the parents are the only "advocate" that counts ( assuming of course you can't find any other reason the parents are witholding treatment, for example, if the parent actually poisoned the child or something.)
As soon as we allow the state to be the "advocate" for the child, there is no family.
As for the tourism practice, so what? If they aren't forced to do it, if they understand they are going to a third world hell hole, so be it. That's called freedom of choice and capitalism in action.
The 'state" already advocates for children, or do you know a state where it is ok to physically abuse or kill children?
India is in fact a hell hole, or did you miss that terrible movie "Slumdog Millionaire." And I have no idea why you bring Taiwan into the conversation, the countries David mentioned were "destination countries mentioned were Turkey, Thailand, Costa Rica and India."
Turkey Thailand and Costa Rica are hell holes too. Third world hell holes. While the American tourist/medical patient may never see the hellish part, and be treated to first class accomodations, that doesn't remove the fact they are indeed hell holes.
They don't believe in medicine or doctors. They won't use them in any way. Why should they pay?
A foreign Doctor can not practice medicine in the US without going back to school. Why would the US welcome sending patients to a foreign country to get treatment from doctors they don't consider skilled enough to practice medicine? The visa should be denied.
Thanks for giving me a new mission. I think I will fight very vocally for every wacko religious group to have their inane practices to be written into bills and openly recognized and considered in the senate. Maybe, just maybe, we will finally get ALL RELIGION out of politics.
So, the fact is, the numbers shown here are only the tip of the iceberg, especially considering that it's logical to assume the vast majoriuty of these types of childrens' deaths occur under the radar and do not end up in any data base.
Alternative opinions are more than welcome here, but mistatements will be noted...
Parents who let their children die needlessly should be in jail for murder - not misdemeanors.
The Supreme Court upholds decisions against church and state so I don't know how they can possibly do this. And is it suppose to be paid with our tax dollars?
Ken - you're looking a little green... perhaps you need to see a doctor or just pray.
While Bollywood might employ a very large number of people, this number again means nothing. Can you name the top five Bollywood movies on the current hits list, or the greatest of all time? The truth is Hollywood sells worldwide on on unprecendented basis, Bollywood's employee size notwithstanding.
The Indian Railway is the largest employer in the world, period. I should be surprised by this? The average American citizen need know not a whit about India, and the republic will survive just fine. Any suggestion we must all be learned scholars is made in jest or by a fool.
Do you believe those poor souls by the millions, washing their clothes in communal streams across India are even concerned about what transpires in the USA?
India is still very much a class society and as a percentage of the whole the Brahmin class is very small. Make no mistake, the combined gotras maintain power over Hindu culture in India. The Brahim perceive themselves to be on a higher plane than the people of India, the people used as servants in their homes. Most of India's citizens are lost souls with dark eyes, hungry and without much hope. Do I have to get some pictures?
Tout that hell hole as some crown jewel. I'll have to reply, "sorry, it isnt."
And the right wing fanatics in the U.S. could care less what this history tells us and what the Constitution guarantees us....They are constantly pushing against the line, and attempting to impose their belief systems on everyone else in the process.
Unfortunately, under our money-based political system, they've discovered they can buy off our politicians with ease so I'm not sure what the future will bring...
The federal government is only codifying what most states (nearly enough for ratification) have already done, most of them long ago.
And, Maggie May, the will of the people isn't being enforced at the ballot box, as you suggest, but rather at the safe deposit box....And, even then, it is typically - as in this case - the will of a minority of the people...
The position of this article is straightforward. It is simply that the safety of children is of paramount importance and it trumps all other considerations. When this safety is placed in jeopardy, it should be the responsibility of the government to step in and insure it.
If adults want to risk their own health that should be their business. People continually indulge in legal activities that kill them. Children, however, should have the right to grow up and make their own decisions on the matter before they are placed at risk.
As mentioned above, alternate viewpoints - especially those supported by logical arguments - are more than welcome here...
I personally feel the state has an interest in treating children, though there must be a line between easily treatable conditions and aggressive chemo or experimental remedies.
And yes, positive mental attitudes and pure faith can respond to some conditions but rarely the kind that kill.
In addition, the examples you cite were not "the kind that kill." Both examples are clearly presented as "easily treated" if so desired. The fact they died in the end isn't really pertinent to the equation, as cold as many will accuse that opinion of being. It really doesn't matter what the ultimate ailment is, the only guiding factor should be the wishes of the people involved, first and foremost, which is not only allowed, but required by the Constitution and the law of the land in thirty plus states.
Atheists recognize clearly that this life is our only shot and we'd better live it to the fullest with complete empathy for fellow humans or we've wasted the only chance we'll ever have.
We have here a new form of morphed Capitalism, which has been with us for quite some time by the way, and has as its driving force profit above humanity with the distinct absence of empathy.
And this may come as a surprise but something often referred to as the 'free market' never, ever existed even though most pundits declare that it's alive, well, and working.
Shame on the AARP for giving the bill its blessing. May this only serve to reveal to all with their eyes open that the AARP is far from a legitimate advocate for the elderly. As a major mover of drugs and provider of insurance, it is rather a big part of the problem, particularly dangerous because it is a wolf in sheep's clothing.
AARP endorsed the bill because it will put Medicare Advantage companies, against which it competes, out of business. It's incredible how the president and House leaders have floated this out with such big smiles on their faces. For the millions who now realize significant advantages from their association with Medicare Advantage companies it will be no laughing matter when they realize that they will be the ones that effectively subsidize the premiums of the uninsured..
I'm under no illusions. AARP is a total fraud on American seniors. But so is reformed health care.
So is this government a complete fraud, as it is a complete fraud on all Americans and has been for many years. What really bothers me, what irks me, what causes me terrible consternation is the shear volume of people that believed in 'Change We Can Believe In' and still do when in fact almost every presidential candidate for the past 100 years has managed their campaign with the same rhetoric and provided nothing of the sort.
Americans have short memories. Some have no memory at all.
Whether it's information regarding Afghanistan, the economy, the Swine Flu, Bisphenol-A or GM foods, everything is spun and the truth has to be researched and dissected apart from the lies. Because it's so very time consuming most Americans rely on some form of mainstream media for their total package of information. That's preposterous. But they simply don't have the time that you and I might have.
Here's a wonderful example.
The mainstream media parrots the CDC figure of 36,000 flu deaths per year. This instills fear in the populace. As I read across the internet I see people using that figure but they quote it as though 36,000 people actually die every year from the flu. That's simply untrue. The CDC web site is voluminous but within it is the following information. The 36,000 figure is derived by averaging the total number of seasonal Pneumonia deaths and ANY deaths by respiratory or circulatory infection above that average are ATTRIBUTED to flu. Flu deaths aren't even used to develop that average. The figure of 36,000 is, time and time again, mentioned as an ESTIMATE ONLY. The CDC web site states CLEARLY that 297 people have died from Swine Flu as of October 10th, 2009 making it FAR LESS severe than the regular type A flu that circulates yearly.
EVERYTHING is spin. ALL of it. The mainstream media is an arm of the government and journalism is relegated to people such as yourself whose audience is limited. While you get it right over and over again your ability to reach a wide ranging audience is nonexistent.
That doesn't mean I don't truly appreciate your editorial posts. I do. I read them both here and at the Contrarian. In fact, your site is virtually the only one I visit on Gather since anything else is generally worthless drivel but that doesn't negate the fact that people such as yourself that take the time to think about the world around them in a critical fashion are simply losing the battle in the long run. What utter frustration Dave. The government calls it learned helplessness.
You may recall the night last fall when Obama was supposed to be meeting with Clinton at her residence in the DC area and the press was surprised to discover they not only weren't there but they weren't anywhere they could find them....at least, that's what we were told.
On that evening, the Bilderberg Group was meeting in Chantilly, Virginia, outside Washington, D.C. If, as alleged by many, the two were at that meeting, it might give us a clue why things never seem to really change for the betterment of the public-at-large.
The location of the meeting departed from the group's normal routine, the reason being, according to Wikipedia, "so as to give easier access to those associated with the US elections."
If there is actually any degree of transparency, should we not know what transpired between the future president and the 130 people of great influence that comprised this group and who had come from many foreign lands as well as the U.S?
Who is directing who here?
I was at a potluck with a lot of pretty conventional people, and I was in the 'hood corner. So I asked the other people in the 'hood corner, "So, you taking the flu shot?"
Their eyes got wide, and they shook their heads no. Other people looking at us seemed like they were kind of picturing us with tin foil hats, but hey, you live in the 'hood, you get suspicious. A lot of hype isn't a good sign.
Chemo kills people. Before they put you under for a serious surgery, you have to sign you know you could die, or anyway, I did. We are all going to go. There is no proof that kids won't die no matter what the treatment is, if they are seriously ill. Punishing people for believing other than what government says is true is hurting the already hurt.
The rate of birth defects in Iraq right now is horrifying, with kids born with head tumors and some deformations that happen here also.
Candace Pert is the biochemist who discovered the opiate receptors in the brain. She believes a large percentage of our cancer incidence is environmental in nature.
When we begin to get greater knowledge of U.S. people about research in Europe concerning environmental toxins, maybe we will make progress on the issue of prevention. It is better not to have to deal with these issues in the first place.
As for those people at Chantilly, I don't think they can maintain all the property they want to take. They have over-reached. U.S. people are resourceful, beginning with Yankee Doodle Dandy and the Revolution. The European ones may not have to do perp walks, but I think it possible we could have some here.