Plain & Simple: If You Believe In Creationism Over Evolution, You Are So Very Wrong.

dino bones were planted there by the devil so we could be fooled...or something to that effect...eh...i tried

haha~

I thought it was aliens that did it.

Brainwashed at an early age. Or is it just comforting to believe everything in the Bible, no matter how conflicting, so that one doesn't have to think.

yes, like children forever questioning "why" and the adults saying "because" I could never accept that!

Just keep repeating to yourself "Cambrian"over and over till you get it.

what does the land of Cambria (Scotland) have to do with this?

You know what it is and you know it shoots down all your silliness. /smiles

"The Cambrian Period"

art of the Paleozoic era, what about it? There are older fossils now.

idiots

in a nutshell, yes!

interestting

Regardless of which theory is correct it is hard for me to immediately put down those who believe in Creationism. Religion and Science will always clash. When your brought up believing that it is wrong to question the church and the bible it is hard to change your views even when presented with evidence.

Darwin, like many scientists was a religious man. FWIW, a lot of scientists see no conflict whatsoever between science and their religious beliefs.

and these should have been no more discussion on the subject after the Scopes Trial bak in the 20s, but someone always has to raise the dead!

"Regardless of which theory is correct...."

Theory, in science, is an hypothesis, which has been supported by evidence. It is not like "belief", which requires no evidence - and in this case disdains evidence. There is no parity between the two, and they should not be mentioned in the same sentence.

"Religion and Science will always clash."

No - science actually can deepen religious faith, as was the case with Einstein. Only literal interpretations of the Bible clash with science - if you want to even say "clash". Actually, literal interpretations of the Bible cannot "clash" with science, because there is no credibility or substance to support an effective "clash".

Literal interpretations of the Bible (or any other religious text, for that matter) is not religion at all. It is cultism or tribalism, responsible for much of the violence and warfare in the history of humans on this planet.

Science, on the other hand, has shown that there are billions of stars in our one galaxy, and billions of galaxies in an expanding universe - and mathematically consistent hypotheses suggest that ours may very well not be the only universe. The sense of mystery and awe stirred by such scientific observations is very much closer to a truly religious sense than cult-like dogmas, creeds and beliefs.

I love the chance to correct myself. Steve has given me one.

I stated that "Religion and Science will always clash."
I think a more accurate statement of my thought would be "Religious beliefs and Scientific evidence will often clash".

Clash is indeed the word I intended to use and does fit. My religious background encourages me to believe in events that Science can disprove. Does that not cause a conflict within myself? That is the clash I was referring to.

I remember well sitting with the Priest who was in charge of the CCD classes when I was a child. I was a trial to both him and my CCD teachers. I would cite scientific evidence and question all the bible stories they would share. Try telling them there is no clash.

"I think a more accurate statement of my thought would be 'Religious beliefs and Scientific evidence will often clash'."

Consider that there is a difference between "religious belief" and "cult creeds".

I think religious belief evolves with scientific understanding - that is, does not discount scientific evidence. That's why I think there is no contradiction between religion and science. Cult creeds, on the other hand, contradict scientific evidence - not as a matter of faith - but as a matter of fear.

"My religious background encourages me to believe in events that Science can disprove. Does that not cause a conflict within myself?"

Not if you understand the difference between religious mythology and science. They address different arenas of experience. Joseph Campbell wrote extensively on this topic. If you're not familiar with him, a good, short book dealing with this is Flight of the Wild Gander.

"I was a trial to both him and my CCD teachers."

Funny - science is a trial like that. Like a child, it always asks questions and cites evidence.

"Try telling them there is no clash."

You were right.

I have the book on myths by Joseph Campbell.
I just was thinking that I NEVER have come across these non-scientific religious types before. Even when I went to Sunday school and church, the clergy and congregation were of the 'evolutionary' mind set, never a word about creationism being real!

Thanks Steve. I am not familiar with Joesph Campbell so I checked out the link. It actually sounds like a book I would find interesting. I am making a note to order it on my next book order.

I don't care what they believe. They are welcome to their beliefs. I just don't want them to make law and policy that affect me.

you have delineated the purpose of this post!

Somewhere it all started. Or was it always without a beginning and without an end? Who created the beginning? Who or what created the slime that we crawled out of? Who created the aliens that changed our DNA? Who? I have never heard an answer to this except to say "aww yes, there is a higher power somewhere". Where? Where did the higher power come from? Maybe we are all just a pawn in someone's chess game but whose chess game. Evolution is too simple an answer and so is creationism. It's probably so simple that when we do know the answer we will wonder at our ignorance. And why are those who believe in creationism "poor unfortunates". We all live on the same earth. We don't all believe the same but that does not mean that those who disagree with us are poor unfortunates. The same sun shines on them as it does on the evoluntionist. It doesn't sound as if you like anyone who believes different from yourself, maybe they think you are the poor unfortunate and I'm positive that some think that about myself. LOL

Lee you are far from a poor unfortunate in the way Georgiana seems to mean it. :)

Evolution has nothing to do with the origins of life or the universe. It's about the diversity of life forms.

Oh, but Nippy, that is not correct. It certainly has to do with the origins of life, in fact, it has everything to do with the origins of life, right down to the first molecule of water that was contaminated with the first molecule of sugar which then evolved to form the first single celled life forms.

Lee, when I say "poor unfortunates' it is like the way some people will mention a person and say"bless their sould" it is slightly detrimental as it is like 'they know not what they do' sort of thing. I am not being condescending to the creationists, no more than I would be for someone who is 'simple'. You know, "poor so-and-so, he doesn't know he has B.O." or something of the like. I am simply stating fact, as the scientific world has proven it, the creationists, with their museums and trying to make Evolutionists seem like heretics, that is provoking mis-information that is going to be harmful to future generations unless they get in line with what is the truth.

Yes, Georgiana. That's how I thought you meant it. Condescendingly. No insult intended from my end; just fact. +shrug+

Lee - You bring up all the questions about beginnings and endings and what causes the changes in between. The same questions I have. And I think a combination of creationism and evolution is the answer. No matter how far back you try to trace beginnings, you always come up to the point that there had to be some kind of force to start it all. Otherwise is to claim all the intricacies of life are accidental and created from chaos. Science tracks too much orderly progression for that to be possible. Someday humans might figure out all the answers, or THE FORCE will lay it all out for us when and if it decides we are ready.

Meanwhile creationism as the fundamentalists believe it should not be taught in schools. There is no proof, as there is for evolutionism.

that is the point!

likewise religion. Unless it is a parochial school the doubt exists as to whether any of it is provable.
http://www.davnet.org/kevin/articles/jesus_exist.html

There is no "evolutionism" that adheres to the rigor of the scientific method. "Faith" that is troubled by the questions of science is not faith, but an attempt to vindicate a personal viewpoint, the same with "science" that does not adhere to rigor. Evolution is a theory the same way gravity is a theory. Are there any gravitationalists? Probably. Where did it all start? Maybe it has not started yet.

Ummm, I'd say I was a fan of gravity, but I only need to be living to validate such a claim... but I believe in evolution more than I believe in creationism....

It's been said by several people here on Gather that I'm always civil... never stoop to insult or name-calling. Well, that's not always so, in any sense, but especially in THIS instance. Creationism is a remarkably STUPID set of beliefs. NONE of it makes sense, and if it's allowed to become a part, ANY part, of our school curriculum, we're in serious trouble as a science-based society.

Yep, you are correct. It's not very scientific and does not belong in a science class. But do you also believe that anyone who believes this is a poor unfortunate? I know some very nice people and very successful people who believe in creationism. I don't consider then poor unfortunates at all.

You're ok Lee : )

I agree, Lee. There are a lot of people who smash beer cans against their heads who are quite satisfied and happy with the creationism theory.

Yes, it is a much lower strata of homo sapien!

Any informed person should be aware of the concepts of creationism and intelligent design. They should be included in science class as an example of what is not science. They should be included in social history class as an example of the kind of willful ignorance that results from inadequate education. History of religions and comparative mythology should be part of school curriculum, starting with grade zero, just as should the basic concepts of gravity, genetic evolution and quantum mechanics, as well as the fundamentals of image making, critical theory, and art history.

Whoa brynn holt. I'm impressed. I sure wish I had been introduced to quantum mechanics in grade 0. LOL Fascinating, spell binding, mind boggling. (my mind anyway)

My Dad was a fur trapper, an elizabethan scholar, a merchant seaman, played sea shanties, americana folk and children's songs in the coffee houses of San Fransisco's Grant Street on the late fifties, studied Zen buddhism and made art in NYC in the early sixties; I benefited from this experience and wished so much there was more of it in school.

It is from my mother that I learned the true nature of ferocity, and, ironically, the concept of elbow grease. When I learned this I was still to small to be useful doing dishes, but could easily reach the lower cabinets. "But mom, it won't come off", I'd whine. "Just use some elbow grease, you'll get it", she'd say. She is a modern woman, grew up in cities, made art in NYC and worked typing newscasts, hitchhiked europe, went native on a Greek island and hopped a freighter home, conceived me in a trappers shack, organized ranchwives to demand and establish a public library in a tiny cow town in Montana then got a masters in information science (79), used it and the evolving internet to direct a medical library focused on pediatric medical genetics.

Soooooooooo........ you're saying there's a chance for me? :) I admire your mother immensely, although I've never met her, and I've not suffered exactly what she's suffered or experienced... but I can relate. Life is life, and what you make of it. The only thing I really know of your mother for myself is how peaceful she looked upon the bed at Magpie Cabin... and that your dad built her a painting studio atop the hill.:) Everyone should be so lucky to meet someone who is not only capable, but WILLING to do such a thing for true love... or something like it.:)

Everything meant for greatness will surely fall short... and we will all find greatness in the most unpopular and unlikely of spaces..................

Having said that, I would like to speak up on behalf of the scientific world, and their bullshit when it comes to really knowing what one person is up to and what and why they're writing about whatever it is they're writing about.:)

What I mean to say is, "Whatever it is you believe in, or don't believe in, don't be afraid to say it here.:)

Lee P. Of what possible use was that comment. It was a long winded version of "Uhhh Coach, Can I go to the bathroom?"

Yep it was. I upsets me when I read articles putting others down because of their beliefs. Am I the only person who believes that people have a right to their beliefs as long as it's not harmful? Maybe I stand alone in this, if so it wouldn't be the first time. It upsets me when someone thinks of my Mom as a poor unfortunate ... she was not.

you are right, Lee. People who insist on their own beliefs regardless of evidence to the contrary are neither poor nor unfortunate. They are stubborn and wilfull and close-minded. That, of course, is their right. However, with rights come responsibilities. It is their responsibility to avoid touting their opinions as fact.

Awww, just as certain evolutionist tout their opinion as fact and calling all others poor unfortunates. Yes, I see your point, they could be correct but then again I just can't imagine my Mom as a poor unfortunate. She was not. We could all be wrong in our beliefs but that does not make us poor unfortunates.

I see them as poor unfortunates. Putting your faith in that which doesn't exist is terribly unfortunate.

poor unfortunates are all the people who just didn't know any better. my mother was a poor unfortunate when answering machines came out as she was born before the telephone and just couldn't get a handle on it. Then one day, turning on my computer I noticed as e mail for her, in London, from the library, she was 90 and took to it like a fish to water as she realised she had not been wrong, jsut behind the times. I feel the same with the Creationists.

Like believing in santa Claus, "poor so-and so still believes in Santa Claus."
We have to put a lot of our earlier beliefs away when the future catches us up.

If the left half of the bell curve was self aware of thier limitations and would get out of the damm way, we would be so much more civil. However these intellectual speed bumps have a nasty habit of causing harm all out of proportion to thier numbers. I would not be in such a bad mood today if 14 U.S. troops had not lost thier most precious lives trying to keep this most unfortunate disease of ignorance from spilling out of the playpen we like to call collectively the "HOLY LANDS" . Whever many are gathered in the name of God so seems to be a lot of the nitrated species of chemicals.

didn't they die in helicopter accidents?

Yes it does. Did any on the other side lose their lives? We seem to fight for what we believe in, whatever that is. Maybe we are all poor unfortunates, creationist and evolutionist both. It does seen that we continue to offend each other one way or another then get mad and try to blow each other up. Just as I just did whenever I felt someone insulted my Mother.

Yes I was referring to the reason why they were there. I just get so depressed hearing about all harm done in the name of the lord. And today is one of the days I am having a hard time maintaining an amused or mildly bemused perspective.

Hey, I like you. You are very special.

Roy is a stalwart guy!

I watched a film called "Restoration' lst night, Robert Downey Jr. as the physician Robert Merrivale. The Reformation of cromwell, the puritans and the total lack of desire of joy or any concepts, the time of the plague, Charles and his spaniels and just the total lack of knowledge in the field of medicine was abhorrant. They had no instruments no way to treat people dying by the thousands, no idea of antiseptic or anesthetics, how any one survived is miraculous. The point being, wouldn't you say of them, even the Royal Family of the time, wouldn't you say "poor unfortunates"?

short animated film “Duelity”, by Marcos “Boca” Ceravolo and Ryan Uhrich
Duelity is a split-screen animation that tells both sides of the story of Earth’ s origins in a dizzying and provocative journey through the history and language that marks human thought.

http://duelity.net/

I will watch that. Will you watch "The Cow" (a Russian animated film on youtube). Meet you back here to compare notes.

I'm with you Roy. I'll watch the cow. My emotions are reacting right now. By the way just in case you are wondering if I believe in creationism, I do not, but I will never call anyone who does a poor unfortunate and they may think me a poor unfortunate for not believing the same as they do.

Lee, you are a diamond in a field of glass shards.

In a way, all humans are "poor unfortunates", simply by being human. I've known mensa scholars to smash beer cans on their heads (and worse) and proudly exhibit ignorance. I've known rural ranchers who never went to school beyond fifth grade to comprehend the most difficult questions of philosophy.

So, lighting my own farts and out-belching the boys shouldn't be talents I need be worried about possessing? Ther iz chanc 4 meh ta be geenyus?

As hard as you might try, you could never not be.

Suh-WEET!!!!!

This is not now and never has been any conflict between true science and the statements contained in the Bible. There are a lot of ignorant people on both sides of the so-called argument of creation vs. evolution but that in no way justifies people being put down for what they believe. They have the inalienable right to think what they choose and only an ignorant person would not see that and make allowance for their freedom to do so.

Just because there are power hunger driven people who exploit ignorance and misguide the ignorant, it does not give any person the right to misrepresent the truth.

True science will always prove the reliability of Biblical history. Theories are not proven fact and again it is the ignorant that do not seem to know the difference.

Correction; First word should be "There". One of these days I must begin to proof read what I write before posting it.

Yes Clifford, every one has the right to be ignorant, to believe thunder is cause by a guy with a hammer, to find wonder in fire and all the other Neanderthal like mind sets, believe what you like, jsut do not keep children from learning the truth of new ways and that the earth is not flat, that medicine is to help you, not control you, that science has a place in society and not to move backwards on the evolutionary scale.
I do not appreciate these backward types trying to run government or how society chooses to deal with things. It is harmful and dangerous and just wrong! I am not saying I am right, but I am, i know what is fact and what is fiction and these backward factions is like having the inmates run the asylum.

Georgiana, the inmates ARE running the asylum.

HI John. Long time since I've seen you around. Now you just stay out of my asylum, they don't need two of us in charge. LOL

There is no proven fact, only facts awaiting disproval. Some of these "facts" have been awaiting disproval for quite a while, and have proved useful in their predictive qualities. On one hand, to argue against science while using a computer is morbidly stupid, on the other hand, it is entirely reasonable to have faith in a god that creates the world new, as it is, every nano-nano-second.

Clarity of thought and expression of the same is a rare quality. I appreciate those who use the gift wisely.

Amen.

Brynn, it is easy to comment on a subject that you know is superior in all aspects.:)

It seems as if sometimes people give up the abilty to come to their own conclusions on certain issues. After a while not even questioning anymore. As if questioning one thing could cause everything else to begin to unravel. The unfortunate sweat lodge deaths recently where we live, in the Sedona area, is yet another example. Tribal thought is a very powerful thing. Going against the tribe might get you voted off the island.

Yes, fools who don't know the tribal sweat lodge ways taking it into their own hands was foolish and therefore harmful.

I watched Nightline last night whre they were investigating that nut job who got too power hungry after his initial success with that mind control shit The secret! He is ameglomaniac who has played on the very worthy new age practices for his own wealth and has no sincerity at all. I never liked the idea of The secret and wouldn't go near it!

What a better way to die! Can you think of a better one than in a sweat lodge?

Brynn,

The only better way to die would be in your arms.:)

or by spanking

Hmmmm..... I'm listening.......

hehehe Ferosh

I live in a sweat lodge "Texas"

Then 'Scott', you are only 2nd to the best way of dying, IMHO.... lol

Thank you baby ! /smiles

I was thinking about creationism earlier today - specifically how creationists say that humans are above the animal kingdom. If that's so, then there should be no disease transmission between the two!

very good point Zoonotics is a fascnating science that is coming into its own again with all the bird flu and such
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=10338&page=113

Though I'm a theistic evolutionist, I must point out that not all creationists are young earthers.
For a more sensible creationist viewpoint, see physicist Don Stoner's
New Look at an Old Earth.

it is still make-believe no matter what spin he puts on it

I agree, but I have more respect for Stoner's rationale (which I disagree with) than anyone's dogmatic assertion, no matter how much I may agree with it.

Oh, i see where you are coming from then, that is cool, thanks for explaining!

Hello Georgiana, No blind faith here. You can find dinosaurs in the Book of Job. It's the oldest book in the Bible. But you have to remember that the world didn't start calling dinosaurs, dinosaurs until 1843 I think. Did you get those wine stains out?

I think you're referring toi the word "behemoth." In Hebrew that simply means large animal. Ancient Hebrew was a very imprecise language.

pluralis excellentiae, a Hebrew method of expressing greatness by pluralizing a noun; it thus indicates that Behemoth is the largest and most powerful animal ever to exist.


Hebrew is far from an imprecise language. It is an extremely precise psycho-linguistic paradigm (using the term psyche as the Greeks would, and more accurately as well, to describe the soul, and by extension to some degree to mean “spiritual”, rather than mind and the way the mind both creates and manipulates language) from what I have read.

behemoth, is also anything large, as in "The behemoth circus tent" It dows not mean dinosaurs scott. You are grasping at straws. Carbon dating puts archealogical finds of dinosaurs in a whole different epoc from humans.

Dinosaurs exist now, and have always existed alongside humans. There is more to know than what we have to date learned about how evolution is as close as one can get to a fact and how the need for religion is written into our genetic code.

James, do you not mean that translating ancient Hebrew into modern English is, at best, an imprecise exercise?

Thank you, G, for this post. We struggle to define what we believe, what we CAN believe, based on how we were raised. I was raised by thinkers, not believers. I don't consider myself "better" than others, who were raised by believers...

But, I can't drink the kook-aide. I can't buy into the big fairy tale book.
There is not now, nor was there ever, any insufficiency in my faith. I have faith. In family, in my community, in the world at large. But I don't believe in Santa, nor Snow White, nor the Tooth Fairy. And I can't place any faith in a book that touts the killing of innocents. In no way, at no time, and for no good purpose can such have been perpetrated on other humans, and be called--in any way--godlike.

I don't believe in God (any god) but I do believe in the spirit of community among people. We are a nation. We can be a better nation. It doesn't take a "god" to make me care about my fellow citizens. I don't cheat, lie, or steal. It doesn't take a god in a person's life to create morality or ethics in a person, a child, or a family.

I consider "god" to be a prop, like the middle ages used boogy men, and elves, and other "middle world" figures to scare children into obedience and compliance.


You have to give the religions credit, however. No matter how many generations pass, they hold tight to their beliefs, evolving a bit slower, changing their stories in 100 year increments instead of at the speed of science.

This is why I'll never understand lightening rods on churches, or priests who ride around in pope-mobiles...

Life if funny (and sunny) is it not?
Non-religious Blessings on your blonde head today.
Wilka

You made my bad mood lift a bit. Thanks

thaks Wilka, that is a good way to see it. I concur. The tooth fairy and the wicked witch who eats runaway children, it is all a tool to make people bow to rules and regulations. Keep everyone inside the lines, inside the box. sad really!

Wait a minute, is this all a stealth promo for The Box, a movie about to appear on a big screen near you?

(Just kidding)

and... regarding comments above, there is no sane reason to include creationism in science class as an example of bad science. Improper use of the scientific method is easy to demonstrate without resorting to fairy tales. Creationism belongs in no science class, ever.

Because you don't believe in creationism doesn't mean you don't believe in God or at least that is my belief. The 2 do not have to go together. Logically they don't.

Creationism is a hysterical parody when read that way~ it's all about how we approach a topic~
However if they try to teach it as fact to kids in school I will be quite pi**ed off as it is just a hodgepodge of humor~

Thanks for posting to GutterGirls~

I do believe God created the universe. He just didn't explain how He did it. The Big Bang was God in action.

Someone will come along who can further refine Darwin's theory of Evolution.

Wow! My first instinct is to ask, "Who popped your magic twanger?"

I get amazed when I see such hostility and comments such as "seriously impeding the maturity, growth and evolution of segments of the human race." I truly hate to burst your shiny balloon, but not only do I not impede the maturity (just check my gray hairs as proof - ha ha!), growth nor evolution of the segments of society that I'm involved with, but I have some very beneficial influence on society and the community around me - thank you very much.

One thing that ends up being overlooked in such conversations as I see being carried on here is the concept that there is just as much variety within the Christian community as there is within the world of non-believers (referring to God as Creator, the Lord Jesus Christ presently the mediatorial High Priest, & belief in the Bible as an inspired document with relevant lessons for this present day). It seems that many either had the personal experience of having some sort of religion shoved down their throats, otherwise forced upon them or there were expectations that they were to have beliefs/faith that matched those of their families/community. Or, people assume (as I read the comments) that children are taught certain things and blindly adhere to those teachings throughout their lives. I guess the same type of assumptions could be made of evolutionists and then carry that to the same faulty conclusion that they are unable to think for themselves, but it would be just as wrong as the assumptions that are being made about Christians. You just can't paint an entire group of people with the same brush and come up with TRUTH. Don't you ever wonder why there are so many different denominations of Christian churches, including non-denominational? There are some that have very strict, almost military-like rules and even within those groups - some of those base their rules solely on their interpretation of what the Bible says while others are based upon what a group of men have determined to be relevant and important to their congregation. Others may appear to be very relaxed with pastors in shirt sleeves and jeans, but you might find that they are very determined that their fellowship know the Word of God and apply it to their lives - obviously this includes an interpretation that understands that God is much more concerned about what is in your heart and how you behave rather than how you dress.

I understand and share the revulsion of those of you who had a particular belief/faith forced on you because I had the same experience as a child. I was expected to have blind faith and questions were not encouraged. I completely rejected that concept as a pre-teen and found myself under constant punishment within my family and extended family which only served to harden my resolve that their beliefs would never be acceptable to me and could not be attributed to a loving God. I spent the next 30 some years as a "card carrying heathen" - meaning that I was dedicated to all things that fell under the label "intellectual" and rejected anything that even fell within the shadow of "faith-based." However, just as I was not content to allow my family/community/state of origin (yes, Clifford N., I'm sure you know where I was born - tee hee hee!) to dictate my beliefs without evidence/proof, neither was I content to blindly follow or adopt any other beliefs without sufficient evidence. The more I studied the type of arguments that I saw my "intellectual" friends using to bombard the "poor unfortunates" with, the less certain I was of where we stood, also.

That's when I got serious about searching for answers that I could personally feel comfortable with and believe me, I was not willing to even cast a glance towards anything that even hinted Bible, God, Christ, etc. However, as I went through the list of reincarnation, New Age, Baha'i Faith, Buddhism, New Thought, Scientology, etc. none of these were able to "scratch the itch."

I'm not going to waste my time nor yours by giving a testimony as to how I was finally turned around and willing to take a look at Christianity, I don't believe that's going to be effective in this group, but I do think it would be a target for ridicule and yet more name calling - this, for the most part, does not seem to be a group willing to allow others the freedom of their own beliefs. I've taken my time to expose myself here to at least explain that even if we didn't grow up "brain washed" and even when we have numbered among the "intellectuals" there are paths that can lead to a completely sold out, rock solid, Bible thumping, Jesus lover. Nope, didn't happen to me overnight and no, it didn't come about because of what some pastor said or taught. I don't consider myself to be interested nor involved in religion - to me that's more along the lines of an institutionalized system, referring to the traditions, an institution to express belief, I never was looking for an institution, the world is full of them. I do have a personal relationship with my savior, very personal - no one else is included in my relationship. You can have all the opinions you'd like to have about it, but they have no effect on the relationship - it has nothing to do with you. You don't have to believe, rather or not you believe, rather or not you care one way or another - it makes no difference to me, it only effects your life.

If you take nothing else away from this comment, I would only pray that you can be intelligent and open minded enough to realize that all human groups are composed of individuals who can't be judged alike. You diminish your own humanity when you lump any group of people into one stereotype and make disparaging remarks about them. I can only guess at what your reaction might be if someone were to come along and think that this is the "haters forum" and start falling back into darker days by calling up some of those old, disgusting, prejudicial remarks about President Obama. It wasn't that many decades ago when I was shocked by the ignorance of people who thought it was okay to call names of that sub-group and I knew it was worth standing up to fight against that, also. For the sake of my precious grandbabies, I'm glad that I did.

Respectfully submitted - God bless you all,
Shauna

Excellent testimony Shauna.

My mentor, Froggy the Gremlin, would take offense at your misuse of the term "magic twanger."

Shauna, it is nice you are comfortable with your beliefs. I am an Episcoplalian, but no one in the church eVER told me what ws in the bible was fact. It was a collection of stories and parables meant to teach the masses. I am not lumping all people of faith into a hated group. only the Fundamentalists who show a complete disregard for proven things over the talking snakes and Adam & Eve stories, or that a whole slew of animals were on a boat and that they have always been here, like no animal evolved after Noah/!!!
I condemn the thinking of these people as derogatory to the reality of this planet and take umbride at people never questioning and taking it all for rote, well it is easier than being naturally curious but to be in this state of denial and self-denial is pitifully backward.

It is like evolutionists say 2+2=4
Then the creationist comes along as says it equals 3. There is no way to prove them worng, in their eyes.

Those who do not accept evolution are in denial.

I am in Texas

figures

jealous

Hey, I just went through (almost) 40 days and nights of rain in the Midwest, so, momentarily, I AM jealous, but it, too, shall pass, like ships or kidney stones in the night.

I believe in evolution. Plain and simple! We have the bones and fossils to prove it. Otherwise where would that stuff come from? I've seen museums filled with whole skeletons of dinosaurs, bones and fossils and pottery that was created by cavemen - someone just made those to fool people?? That is just plain stupid.

There are no transitional fossils. : ) But you will get no debate out of me. All my evolution books , pro and con put me to sleep. It's like the most boring thing in the world to me.

There are no transitional fossils? What a weak argument. The evidence, fossil evidence, proves that the 'transition' you speak of did in fact occur, we have the fossils to prove it and it was a diversion into two species of man, one of which didn't survive.

"I consider "god" to be a prop, like the middle ages used boogy men, and elves, and other "middle world" figures to scare children into obedience and compliance."

So well said Wilka, the bible is a great book, but a book of fairy tales. God is nonexistent.

You have transitional fossil pictures? Cool beans bro Show them to me. There should be billions laying around. Just show me a few hundred. No Art work please , I want snap shots.

Google Zoomorphology and Zoonotics Scott!

by the bye, a 'behemoth' is an Ox. Grazes on grass as cattle.
The book of Enoch relates it as well.
Behemoth also appears in the Apocryphal Book of Enoch, giving the following description of this monster's origins there mentioned as being male, as opposed to the female Leviathan:

"And that day will two monsters be parted, one monster, a female named Leviathan in order to dwell in the abyss of the ocean over the fountains of water; and (the other), a male called Behemoth, which holds his chest in an invisible desert whose name is Dundayin, east of the garden of Eden." - 1 Enoch 60:7-8
There is another Jewish hymn recited on the festival of Shavuot (celebrating the giving of the Torah), known as Akdamut, wherein it says: "...The sport with the Leviathan and the ox (Behemoth)...When they will interlock with one another and engage in combat, with his horns the Behemoth will gore with strength, the fish [Leviathan] will leap to meet him with his fins, with power. Their Creator will approach them with his mighty sword [and slay them both]." Thus, "from the beautiful skin of the Leviathan, God will construct canopies to shelter the righteous, who will eat the meat of the Behemoth [ox] and the Leviathan amid great joy and merriment, at a huge banquet that will be given for them." Some rabbinical commentators say these accounts are allegorical (Artscroll siddur, p. 719), or symbolic of the end of conflict.

Georgiana, the Roman Catholics folks do the Apocryphal Books. They have their own gospel from what I see.

Sorry Im cooking and dealing with 2 dogs and I running back and forth. I will post more later.

There are no transitional fossils because there wasn't a 'transition' in the context that you're attempting to use. There was evolution and as I stated, there was a diversion into two species of humans, one of which didn't survive. No transition. Evolution. Meaning an extraordinarily slow progression of change over millions of years. And yes, the fossils exist. You do the research yourself if you're that interested in holding an accurate opinion. I already did it. Pity I didn't save the links, huh.

I believe your reference to Zoonotics may be in error, Georgiana.

However, Zoomorphology is perfect.

Zoonotics was being researched back when I started studying Veterinary medice in the 80s. There ws some evidence of cross-contamination of some diseases between people and the animals they lived with.

check this out; http://animalpetdoctor.homestead.com/Zoonotics.html

awww John, you have no proof then ( I wanted to see them. I was really looking forward to seeing all the pictures.

stop being so childish, you have a narrow view of things and it is a pity that more of your brain isn't used. You now doubt catholic docterine as it doesn't jibe with your twisted fantasies either?

Hey the pope folks have their own things they come up with. That's their deal. Jerome added the Apocryphal Books and told the pope folks they were not inspired like most people knew. But the pope folks decided that they were inspired. You didn't know that Georgiana? I don't doubt the pope folks, I know them very well and have maybe 100s of RC friends.

I've been to the vatican and seen the Pope

And? /smiles

trumps your 100 RC friends! LOL

Lol You have to be kidding silly

Its always amazed me how many people that don't believe in a God, suddenly start to pray to there non existent God when in a tight spot, amazing really.

Its a proven fact what and where we all evolved from. The only question is how did it all start, if anyone can answer that one then he or she will be rich beyond anyone's dreams

yes, we all call out for supernatural help when in a fix, and die anyway! better to put our desire for living into getting out of that fix!