by Pat Bertram
Member since:
October 4, 2007

No Whine, Just Champagne Writing Discussion #86

October 22, 2009 12:32 AM EDT
views: 101 | comments: 128

How was your writing week? What are you focused on now and what do you hope to be focused on next week? What are your writing concerns? What writing activities have you been involved with this week? Did you have any successes, breakthroughs, realizations?

Let’s talk.

The group No Whine, Just Champagne will meet here at this article for a live discussion about writing on October 22, 2009 at 9:00pm ET. I hope you will stop by. I’d like to know how you are doing.

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Comments: 128

Paul M. Oct 22, 2009, 11:29am EDT
I haven't written anything in two weeks but I plan to get a little done tomorrow.
Sharon B. Oct 22, 2009, 7:00pm EDT
I have over 10,000 e-mails....so please bear with the generic comment... thanks for sharing
Pat Bertram Oct 22, 2009, 9:02pm EDT
Well, I'm here. Virtually speaking, anyway. Don't know if I brought my brain along, but we'll see.
JOHN BECK Oct 22, 2009, 9:03pm EDT
Good evening, Pat. I hope you're surviving and getting enough sleep and a healthy diet.
Pat Bertram Oct 22, 2009, 9:08pm EDT
Sleep? What's that? I vaguely remember hearing about it somewhere.
Deborah J Ledford Oct 22, 2009, 9:06pm EDT
I know what you mean about 10,000 e-mails, Sharon. Do we ever get to empty our inbox?
Pat Bertram Oct 22, 2009, 9:07pm EDT
If no one has anything to discuss, then I have a question. I am going to be doing a column for a new ezine (unpaid unfortunately, but it should be fun) it will be called: Ask Pat. Pithy. So, since I don't yet have readers to ask me questions, what would be good questions to include? You can also give me answers. That way I won't have to work as hard. :)
JOHN BECK Oct 22, 2009, 9:11pm EDT
OK. I have a probably unanswerable question: When writing a novel, which comes first. Would it be the plot, the setting, the characters, a central character? My guess is that it's like planting a garden, where some would start with the seed catalogue, some with a diagram of the garden space, some with a list of "must plant" items.
Pat Bertram Oct 22, 2009, 9:17pm EDT
Unanswerable, but perfect! Everyone has a different starting place -- for Daughter Am I, I started with an idea -- I wanted to dispel some of the myths about the Mafia and I wanted to write a story of a journey. After that, I got the character, then the plot.

With More Deaths Than One -- I started with the idea of a woman who died twice, then tried to figure out how that was possible.

With A Spark of Heavenly Fire, I had a theme -- ordinary people who became extraordinary in atrocious circumstances. Then I had to figure out what those circumstances were, then the characters.

I never realized this before, but I start with an idea, find a character who can carry the idea through, and then figure out the plot.
L V Gaudet Oct 22, 2009, 9:23pm EDT
Cool, I had no idea about the column. Is this an advice column? About love, life, and all the nasty stuff that goes with it? We have a funny one in our local paper. The questions and answers are funny in a rediculous way.

Umm, Dear Column Lady,

My boyfriend cheats, steals from me, and calls me names, but I love him and can't live without him. Please tell me what to do.

Ummm, Love him but hate him.

Dear Ummm,

Dump the turd.

lol.

Give me the link, I'll come up with something and send questions.
Pat Bertram Oct 22, 2009, 9:26pm EDT
Unfortunately, no. It's about writing. I wonder if I could stick in some questions like: I want to write, but he wants to make love. What do I do?
Pat Bertram Oct 22, 2009, 9:27pm EDT
As for a link, I don't have it yet. You can post questions here. I like the idea of making the column fun as well as informative.
L V Gaudet Oct 22, 2009, 9:28pm EDT
That'll spice it up. Hit more than one reader group at the same time I say.
James R. Oct 22, 2009, 9:09pm EDT
Hi Pat. I've been doing a bit of writing, but lots of other things have also been going on. I recently got onto the mailing list for a Boston writing group called Grub Street and they sponsor lots of activities for writers and readers. I hope to make it to the Boston Book Festival this Saturday, in between the raindrops.
Pat Bertram Oct 22, 2009, 9:17pm EDT
Sounds fun, James. With or without the raindrops!
Wanda H. Oct 22, 2009, 9:15pm EDT
Hey I'm here! *how did that happen? and I'm on time too?
JOHN BECK Oct 22, 2009, 9:16pm EDT
Well, pretty close, Wanda.
Wanda H. Oct 22, 2009, 9:16pm EDT
John I think its different for everyone. For me its' usually the character that comes first. ;o)
Pat Bertram Oct 22, 2009, 9:18pm EDT
So pleased to see you, Wanda!
JOHN BECK Oct 22, 2009, 9:18pm EDT
Maybe they can't be separated. Maybe the plot, character, setting etc. hit some people simultaneously. However I suspect that some start with a setting and main character and let the main character do most of the writing.
L V Gaudet Oct 22, 2009, 9:19pm EDT
I've been working on editing and revising chapters of a murder/mystery/thriller novel I started years ago, abandoned, and recently revisited. I call it a little break from my other novel, in need of editing and drawing up an outline for the second and final book.

I (we) also started a children's book that my six year old came home from school just needing to write, lol.
JOHN BECK Oct 22, 2009, 9:24pm EDT
It sound to me like a constructive way to use your writing talents, L V.
L V Gaudet Oct 22, 2009, 9:27pm EDT
It depends on what you call constructive.

"Mom, I said to write "but", write "but"."
"But, you can't start every sentence with "but"."
"Mom, I said to write "but", write "but"."
"But, you can't start every sentence with "but"."
etc etc etc

We did eventually get a rough draft, followed by a crying meltdown because I chose to make supper instead of searching online for pictures to plug into her book.
Pat Bertram Oct 22, 2009, 9:42pm EDT
Sounds like a budding writer to me! Don't we all want to do it our own way?
L V Gaudet Oct 22, 2009, 9:45pm EDT
I think I have two on my hands. With some of the things my four year old (almost 4) comes up with ...

ie)
"If you can't find me Mom, and I'm quiet, and I'm not in this room, and you can't find me in the other room, then I'm in the hall and I'm falling slowly to the floor."

And let's not even start on the finding of secret doors and keys in the pea gravel at the playground.
L V Gaudet Oct 22, 2009, 9:46pm EDT
oops almost 5
L V Gaudet Oct 22, 2009, 9:52pm EDT
The six yr olds story might also be the best kids story I have come close to finishing.

Short (missing lots of details like why the guys were after the princesses etc), but not a bad story line at all.

Don't know why I get so stuck on the story line and where it's going when I try to write a story for my kids.
JOHN BECK Oct 22, 2009, 9:26pm EDT
A corollary of my initial question might be: As you develop your characters, to what extent do the characters direct the writing?
Pat Bertram Oct 22, 2009, 9:30pm EDT
A lot of writers say that their characters take over, but mine never do. What happens is you start with a whole world of possibilities. For each choice you make about your character, you limit him or her. Male or Female? Young or Old? Smart or Stupid? Healthy or sickly? Then, by the time you get about halfway through the book, you've narrowed the possible actions of your character so much that it seems as if it's controlling the story, but in fact, it's still you who's controlling it by the thousands of decisions you have made for your character.
L V Gaudet Oct 22, 2009, 9:32pm EDT
For me they direct the writing in that:
1) I have to keep stopping to check my character notes that I already memorized - just in case (yes, I know it's anal).

2) I wish I could forget the character and just write. Sometimes I have to re-write something I really liked because I fell off the track and wasn't true to character. Then I want to axe the character from the scene and reinvent someone new. Surprise! Don't know where this guy came from, but reader, love him because he suddenly took over the scene. Ok, doesn't work, but we can all dream can't we?

3) sometimes I focus on a character and the scene unwittingly becomes about him/her.
Laurie C. Oct 22, 2009, 9:27pm EDT
Only writing done this week was for work. Sigh. Hoping next week I can be more productive in the fiction department.

I'm working on writing mysteries, so I usually start with the death. I killed my mother's lawyer off (fictitiously, of course) with an allergy to nuts, and I'm killing off the former editor of [name of paper removed] by having him put in the town fountain wearing only ... well, never mind. Then I work from there.
JOHN BECK Oct 22, 2009, 9:30pm EDT
Good to see you, Laurie. In retrospect, I think I write some short stories by starting at the end in terms of thought process. I don't write the end first, though.
L V Gaudet Oct 22, 2009, 9:36pm EDT
Short stories are another beast altogether, and not always a nice one. But they are fun.

I start with a vague feeling usually, and then let it go wherever it goes from there. No plan, no plot, no beginning or ending. I have no idea how, but they always seem to make sense when done.
Pat Bertram Oct 22, 2009, 11:22pm EDT
Laurie, I'd heard that's how Sue Grafton started writing -- she killed off her ex-husband.
James R. Oct 22, 2009, 9:29pm EDT
Hi John. In both of my novels, I started out with a few themes and locales I wanted to write about and then came up with characters that allowed me to pursue the themes. Very soon, the characters developed and had a major influence on what followed.
James R. Oct 22, 2009, 9:31pm EDT
Laurie, brrrrr. Must remember not to cross you. ;-)

But you've got to start somewhere and sometimes the beginning later goes away in favor of a better launch point.
JOHN BECK Oct 22, 2009, 9:32pm EDT
I don't know how much the discussion helps Pat, but I'm enjoying the conversation.
Jamie C. Oct 22, 2009, 9:33pm EDT
I've made great strides on the second book in my romance series this week. I've been stuck on how to best tie up a few loose plot threads for a couple weeks now, so it's been slow going and such a relief to finally figure it all out. I should be able to finish up the manuscript this weekend. Well, the first draft. Then it's the hard part. Revisions! I'll be glad to get this sucker done. I want a clean slate when NaNoWriMo starts next weekend, so I can start book three. Hooray for series! You don't have to invent as many new characters.

Who's nano-ing this year?
JOHN BECK Oct 22, 2009, 9:35pm EDT
The older of my two daughters.
L V Gaudet Oct 22, 2009, 9:39pm EDT
I'm technologically illiterate (and challenged too), and clueless about a lot of other things online ...

what is nano-ing?
JOHN BECK Oct 22, 2009, 9:40pm EDT
By the way, Hi, Jamie.
JOHN BECK Oct 22, 2009, 9:44pm EDT
Nano-ing is participating in National Novel Writers' Month. Check the NaNoWriMo web site.
L V Gaudet Oct 22, 2009, 9:47pm EDT
No brainer to find? (even then I might need help - teaching an old dog new tricks and such - sometimes I feel like an old dog)
Pat Bertram Oct 22, 2009, 9:46pm EDT
I'm sure by the time this posts, a dozen other people have explained nano-ing -- but it's shorf for NaNoWriMo -- National Novel Writing Month. You try to write a novel in a month. I could perhaps write a chapter in that time! I can't imagine coming up with 50,000 words, but thousands of people manage to finish.
L V Gaudet Oct 22, 2009, 9:49pm EDT
Ok, I just fell off my chair laughing. Good thing I didn't spill my wine. Oops, sorry, I did it again - bringing wine to a no whine group.

Maybe when the kids are grown and moved out, hubby's retired and found some hobby to keep him from bugging me nonstop, i'm retired, ... then maaayyyybe I could try to write a novel in a month if it's a very short novel.

How do they do it? Do they sleep? Clean house? Eat?
JOHN BECK Oct 22, 2009, 9:50pm EDT
I stand corrected. Pat's correct, it's "Writing", not "Writers'".
Pat Bertram Oct 22, 2009, 9:48pm EDT
John, this helps tremendously. I already have several ideas for questions for my column! And yes, this is fun. I always have a good time on Thursday night, especially when we get enough people who keep the conversation going.
JOHN BECK Oct 22, 2009, 9:52pm EDT
Except for a few light Halloween stories, I've been busy with preparing presentations which have deadlines so not much fiction writing and have not taken the novel plunge yet, but the carrot keeps looking more appetizing.
Pat Bertram Oct 22, 2009, 9:59pm EDT
I think you'd have fun writing a novel. It's different from anything else you've ever experienced. You get to create a world, a set of characters, a story to show those characters acting. A short story can be held in the mind, a painting can be seen in its entirety, but a novel -- you can only see it in bits and pieces. But when all those pieces fit -- Wow! There's nothing like it.
L V Gaudet Oct 22, 2009, 10:06pm EDT
Novel writing is kind of like having a roast instead of ground beef.

It takes a lot longer to cook, but is so much more enjoyable.

I find short stories are good practice for keeping your writing tighter. But the story always seems like a teaser. With a novel you can really explore the whole story.
Jamie C. Oct 22, 2009, 9:52pm EDT
Hi, John.

Participating in Nanowrimo is a lot of fun. You have to turn off the inner critic and just write, write, write. I "won" in 2007 with the required 50,000 words, but only ended up with about 25,000 words in 2008. I just wasn't very excited about the project last year, so I never finished it. I haven't touched that novel since December 1st last year. I'm not even sure where the file is. And honestly, don't care. Wasted month.

But this year should go well, because I'm excited about the project. I think anyone who's interested in writing novels should try Nano at least once. You're sure to surprise yourself.
JOHN BECK Oct 22, 2009, 9:57pm EDT
Wasted? I doubt it. Writing in itself is an exercise which sharpens one's skills. I know of more than one person who has started to knit a sweater, goofed up, and discarded or just never finished it. But in each case they went on to another knitting project having learned from the failure.
Jamie C. Oct 22, 2009, 10:01pm EDT
That's true. If nothing else, I learned how not to write in first person tense. LOL! Truly atrocious piece of work. A parody memoir disguised as fiction, actually. What was I thinking? It was called Stalker Magnet.
Pat Bertram Oct 22, 2009, 9:53pm EDT
Jamie, that is true about not having to create as many characters with a series. I asked my blog readers for topics for my virtual book tour, and one was how do I come up with my character's names. Can't remember most of them. I've named over a hundred characters, perhaps more, and only remember how I named a couple of them. In fact, I don't always remember their names. One blogger mentioned that Mary Louise Stuart was the name of the hero in Daughter Am I, and I had to look it up -- I was sure she got the name wrong. But no -- that is the name of my character. Sheesh. A mind like a sieve.
JOHN BECK Oct 22, 2009, 9:58pm EDT
:)
L V Gaudet Oct 22, 2009, 9:59pm EDT
lol, I love character lists. Too many details, characters names and all that to remember.

I tend to write in Man1 said, Boy3 did, etc. and fill in the names after just so I keep the names straight while writing.

Might be early onset senility, or it might be having kids distracting me every two minutes. But I can't keep name strait in the same scene some days.
Jamie C. Oct 22, 2009, 9:56pm EDT
Oh and I don't finish writing a novel in Novemeber, just get about half way through writing a new one. Almost all the novels I've completed are between 100 to 110K. No way could I write that much in a month.

It actually only takes 1667 words every day, but I'm a weekend writer (single mom and a demanding day job), so I do about 6000 words a day each Saturday and Sunday and a few words here and there during the week. It adds up quickly.

I type fast, btw.

Sorry to divert the topic of your thread, Pat. How goes the blog tour?
Pat Bertram Oct 22, 2009, 10:01pm EDT
ONLY 1667 words a day? ONLY? It doesn't sound like much, but that's more than five handwritten pages. I'm lucky to do two!
Jamie C. Oct 22, 2009, 10:04pm EDT
Do you write by hand, Pat?

I type like a maniac. I can write that much in about 40 minutes, usually. My brain is noisy.
JOHN BECK Oct 22, 2009, 10:05pm EDT
Well, that's like 1 2/3 of a 1000 word story per day. I think I could do that if I really knew where I was going with the story line.
L V Gaudet Oct 22, 2009, 10:08pm EDT
I remember those days. Re-writing by hand over and over and over and over and over before I finally made the BIG PURCHASE and bought an electronic typewriter.

No, I'm not THAT old, just was that broke, lol.

What a wonderful thing that computers have finally become affordable enough for the majority.
Pat Bertram Oct 22, 2009, 10:09pm EDT
Yes, I write fiction by hand, non-fiction on the computer. But even a simple blog post takes me three hours.

Which comes back to you blog tour question -- I should have my articles done a week ahead of time, but I'm only a day or two in advance. I'm at day five of a 35 day tour -- not my choice, but the first person chose November 11, the second chose October 18, the third chose November 21, so I've been trying to connect the days. Querying agents was easier than querying bloggers! I still have one day to fill, but if I can't, I'll be a guest on my own blog.

I'm hoping by the time it's over, I'll be so sick of promoting that I'll shut off my computer and do my a PriNoWriMo. (Private Novel Writing Month.) Or even a GraNoWriMo -- I still want to write the graphic novel.
Jamie C. Oct 22, 2009, 10:16pm EDT
GraNoWriMo - LOL, I thought you were going to go write with a group of grannies there for a minute.
Jane Bierce Oct 22, 2009, 9:57pm EDT
Craziest book I ever wrote was at the suggestion of my son, "just put the pen to the paper and don't lift it for a while -- write what comes into your head." Turned out to be 117,000 words -- ONCE AGAIN A PRINCESS.
JOHN BECK Oct 22, 2009, 9:59pm EDT
Hi, Jane.
Pat Bertram Oct 22, 2009, 10:05pm EDT
I wish I could write like that. The problem is, nothing comes into my head. I have to dredge it up.
Jamie C. Oct 22, 2009, 9:59pm EDT
I hate naming characters, Pat. I often go to babynames.com for ideas. The main character in my current WIP is named Sedric, but everyone calls him Sed. Which is fine until you start adding dialogue tags. Sed said. It drove me nuts at first. I'm using dialogue tags very sparsely in this manuscript, which is a challenge because my novels are always heavy on dialogue.
JOHN BECK Oct 22, 2009, 10:03pm EDT
In a light Halloween piece I recently wrote I used "said so-and-so" instead of "so-and-so said" a few times. I guess that's a no-no but nobody jumped on me for it.
Pat Bertram Oct 22, 2009, 10:04pm EDT
I've had to change characters names because of situations such as Sed said. It's the little things like that that drive you nuts.

And then there are the inadvertant mistakes. I gave two possible villains in More Deaths Than One the same initials. I still can't believe I did that!
Jamie C. Oct 22, 2009, 10:04pm EDT
Sed said and said Sed are equally annoying, though. :-)
JOHN BECK Oct 22, 2009, 10:07pm EDT
Can't argue!
Heather ~of the Whippets~ M. Oct 22, 2009, 10:08pm EDT
Naming is actually one of my favorite things.

I guess that, when it comes to Sed, you start pulling out stuff other than "said." That runs a risk, too, but it's better than either dropping tags and confusing the reader or using "Sed said" too many times.
JOHN BECK Oct 22, 2009, 10:11pm EDT
Hi, Heather.
Heather ~of the Whippets~ M. Oct 22, 2009, 10:11pm EDT
Hi, John.
Jamie C. Oct 22, 2009, 10:12pm EDT
I use a lot of action tags, like thus.

Sed slammed on the brakes. "Whoa, that's the biggest turkey, I've ever seen."

No, that isn't really in the ms.
Jamie C. Oct 22, 2009, 10:14pm EDT
And forgive my comma-rrhea in that sentence.
Jamie C. Oct 22, 2009, 10:06pm EDT
I'm here procrastinating by the way. I'm supposed to be finishing a scene right now. I'm also supposed to be on the treadmill. I'm doing neither.
JOHN BECK Oct 22, 2009, 10:08pm EDT
Jamie, this is constructive procrastination. Ipse dixit.
Jane Bierce Oct 22, 2009, 10:08pm EDT
Hi, y'all. I've written myself into a problem. I started a series, and the main characters in each of the three books have names that start with C. Don't do this if you can't keep names straight!
JOHN BECK Oct 22, 2009, 10:09pm EDT
Don't even name your kids all starting with the same letter!
L V Gaudet Oct 22, 2009, 10:11pm EDT
Man1, Woman2 ... I'd be in trouble if I tried to keep all the names straight while writing. I'd be mixing up characters between stories.
Pat Bertram Oct 22, 2009, 10:12pm EDT
Are you going to change the names of at least one of the characters, Jane? As a reader, I find it difficult to keep track of characters with the same names. I list the alphabet, then by each letter put the first name of a character or the last name, so that not too many have similar names.
L V Gaudet Oct 22, 2009, 10:12pm EDT
Forget the names starting with the same letter. Worse is when they start with different letters but all sound the same. Worse than trying to reinvent the same name over and over.
Pat Bertram Oct 22, 2009, 10:22pm EDT
One of my editors pointed out that I had a Rastelli and a Ritarelli in the same book. Ouch. Oddly enough, Ritarelli was originally named Dominic Boiardi, and his friends called him Spaghetti (Boiardi is supposedly the name of the Chef Boyardee family). I decided I didn't want to promote Chef Boyardee, so I changed Dominic's last name to Ritarelli, but kept Spaghetti. Then I had to change the Ritarelli, and don't ask me what his name is now, because I haven't the foggiest notion.
Pat Bertram Oct 22, 2009, 10:12pm EDT
L.V. then when do you name your characters?
L V Gaudet Oct 22, 2009, 10:23pm EDT
As I come up with names that work for me I put them in my character list, along with any important notes on why I named them what I did.

Like in Men of Twelve where names have meanings that are important in more ways than one. Stewart, whose name means "house guard or steward" is in a career he was not meant to be. He should have been a steward in a great house. Duberrol, whose name means "dark wanderer" runs away with a dark purpose.

And Stewart invents a father he never knew called Bruce (meaning "woods" or "thicket" which happens to be relevant to what is going on).

Usually my names are not as unusual or hard to remember, but I still find it easier to remember Cop1, Cop2, Victim3, Shopkeeper1, etc than names. I've always been a notorious name forgetter.
Pat Bertram Oct 22, 2009, 10:50pm EDT
Until I started communicating with other writers, I never considered giving my characters names with different meanings. About all I did was to name my hero in More Deaths Than One "Bob Stark" to remind me that he was an everyman sort of character, hence Bob, and he was stark of speech and manner. He changed during the course of a half dozen rewrites, and turned out not to be as ordinary as I originally planned, nor was he as stark.
Jane Bierce Oct 22, 2009, 10:14pm EDT
When my last two books came back from the editor, I had to get used to the new fashion of leaving off attributives and putting in an action or something. Us old English teachers have trouble changing.
JOHN BECK Oct 22, 2009, 10:27pm EDT
We old English teachers? :)
L V Gaudet Oct 22, 2009, 10:28pm EDT
Old dogs and new tricks. I still feel that way with using a computer after so many youthful years of wannabeawriter handwriting over and over, typing over and over.

It's really killing me not to print every draft. I have to force myself to edit on computer over and over while itching to just print it and read it hardcopy already.
Pat Bertram Oct 22, 2009, 10:19pm EDT
Jane, I much prefer action. Especially when it's used to show emotion. When I first started writing, I'd sit for hours it seemed, trying to figure out how the character was feeling, so she could say something angrily or haughtily or happily or whatever. It was such a thrill to learn that adverbs were frowned on. Now I have people throwing things or shrugging or smiling (my characters shrug and smile way too much!) or eating or rattling newspapers.
Jane Bierce Oct 22, 2009, 10:25pm EDT
Pat, I catch myself doing the attributives, then about every thrid one I do the new way.
Pat Bertram Oct 22, 2009, 10:30pm EDT
Just make sure that when you do it the old way, you don't use the thesaurus. I read a book awhile back -- a bestseller -- and within a couple of pages the guy agreed, cautioned, reminded, mimicked, answered, contributed, guessed, explained, responded, admonished, confessed, encouraged, clarified, blurted, pointed, winced, replied, corrected, acknowledged, returned, laughed, challenged, chided, objected, contested, quipped, offered, moaned, complained, repeated, stammered, pleaded, inquired, mumbled, interrupted, confirmed, addressed, countered, advised, completed, allowed, supplied, ordered, asked, continued, chided, answered, whispered, teased, requested, hollered, echoed, declared, informed, spoke, bellowed, spit out, thundered, hissed. About drove me nuts.
Jeannie C. Oct 22, 2009, 10:57pm EDT
Yep. DTA- I learned that in my writer's group today. Death to adverbs. But I have been guilty of using my computer's thesaurus- because I've also been told not to use the same word too many times.
Jane Bierce Oct 22, 2009, 10:21pm EDT
Pat, the characters were all named in the first book of the series, and it's already released -- it's too late now! I live and learn.
Pat Bertram Oct 22, 2009, 10:25pm EDT
So you're stuck with the same names? At least you should be able to remember them. I can't remember half of my poor characters!
Beth H. Oct 22, 2009, 10:26pm EDT
Great discussion tonight. Nice to see some new folks.

Pat, I have been writing this week. I'm trying to finish the rough draft of the NaNo story I began in 2007 so I'll be ready to begin another this year. Go NaNoers! I connected two scenes I'd already written--only took 5 other scenes to do it. But they're connected.
Pat Bertram Oct 22, 2009, 10:32pm EDT
Do you already have an outline of your new story?
Beth H. Oct 22, 2009, 11:11pm EDT
Outline? Uh...no. I have my two leads and the opening. I'm gonna wing it.
Jane Bierce Oct 22, 2009, 10:28pm EDT
Now that I've found this chat, I'll try to participate-- but it's late for me. Night everybody!
JOHN BECK Oct 22, 2009, 10:31pm EDT
'Night, Jane. Good to meet you.
Pat Bertram Oct 22, 2009, 10:31pm EDT
Jane, I'm so delighted you found us. I sent you a friend request. If you accept, I can send you an invitation to join the group, which means only that you get a weekly reminder.
Beth H. Oct 22, 2009, 10:30pm EDT
Someone asked which comes first for us. I always get a character and either the opening or the ending of the story. Typically it's the end, but for the one I'm trying to finish, I had the opening first. I do have the ending, however. I just need to fill in the rest of the blanks to reach it.

And in a story that's percolating, I've even got the final scene, including the last line. I rather like that. But I don't know when I'll have time to begin that one. It's sci-fi and I've got a romance coming up next.
L V Gaudet Oct 22, 2009, 10:32pm EDT
For me it's always different. Short story or not. It might be a phrase, a thought, a scene, a character, a feeling, a beginning, an ending, who knows.
JOHN BECK Oct 22, 2009, 10:34pm EDT
It's good to be versatile, or is it?
Jane Bierce Oct 22, 2009, 10:33pm EDT
John, I knew that was wrong the moment I click Submit! But I live in Tennessee. What they speak here isn't English.

Good night!
Jane Bierce Oct 22, 2009, 10:34pm EDT
Pat, please do send me an invitation! I need somehting like this to keep me sane..or sort of. . . This time I'm going...promise....
Pat Bertram Oct 22, 2009, 10:35pm EDT
I can't really get into a story until I know the end, and then about halfway through, when I know the characters, I write the end. I like knowing where I'm headed. If the words poured out of me, I don't know if it would matter, but since I have to think of everything I put on the page, it makes a big difference.
JOHN BECK Oct 22, 2009, 10:37pm EDT
Pat, thanks for again including me. I also should sign off but I look forward to another discussion next week.
Thank you all for your insightful contributions to the discussion.
Wanda H. Oct 22, 2009, 10:39pm EDT
Cool discussion. I name my charactes before I start the writing. I've got to have a pretty good idea about the characters and then plop them into the action. The only real problem is making sure that the names aren't too similar. That drives me batty.
Wanda H. Oct 22, 2009, 10:42pm EDT
As for writing this week, I'm working on my nano background and a new kind of outline. And working on my phanta..... entry. ;o)
Jeannie C. Oct 22, 2009, 10:50pm EDT
Pat, how do YOU establish what POV you will use in your novel?
Pat Bertram Oct 22, 2009, 10:53pm EDT
Hi, Jeannie -- the POV character is always the one who has the most emotional stake in the scene. I write in third person. In a couple of books I maintain a single point of view, in a couple I switch points of view.
Nancy N. Oct 22, 2009, 10:57pm EDT
Hi everyone, sorry to be late. For Vendetta the story came about from a real life situation here in LV. The more I thought about it the more it turned into a morality story of sorts. Echoes from the Abyss came about because I wanted my main character to be thrown into a situation where she had to save a street wise gangster and it has a twist where in fact, she's only following along with a situation he started to test her mettle and give her a platform to come into her own. The third novel (which I have a very vague idea of it's plot) is centered around a criminal female main character.
Pat Bertram Oct 22, 2009, 11:04pm EDT
Hi, Nancy! Glad to see you. It's odd to me how so many writers hate to be asked where they get their ideas. I think it's a wonderful question! It shows how the writer thinks and what the writer sees and what the writer feels is important.
Laurie C. Oct 22, 2009, 11:21pm EDT
Agatha Christie always used to tell people who asked her where she got her ideas, "I buy them at Marks and Sparks."

Evidently, she was not a nice person. ;)
Pat Bertram Oct 22, 2009, 11:24pm EDT
I know a writer who says he buys them at Ebay. Still, once you get beyond the obvious, that ideas come from one's mind, the question is an infinitely interesting one.
Beth H. Oct 22, 2009, 11:15pm EDT
The end is important for me too. I've got to know where I'm going.

Character names? Some come easily, others I have to try out. I may sit there and say a series of names until I hit the right one. For my medieval stuff, I was more than picky. I tried not to go too unusual but I didn't want stuff you'd find today. I thought I'd made up Caerleron--I loved the aer spelling--but found it was a real name!

Sorry I checked out halfway through tonight. Printer needed some TLC.
Pat Bertram Oct 22, 2009, 11:20pm EDT
I've done that -- make up something and then discover it was real. Sometimes it seems right, other times it seems spooky.
Pat Bertram Oct 22, 2009, 11:19pm EDT
This was a wonderful discussion! Thank you all for participating -- new members and regulars alike. It's been a joy. See you next week!
Jeannie C. Oct 22, 2009, 11:25pm EDT
I'm glad I found this group. This is sort of new to me. I'm on FB all the time- and do get some inspiration from the writers there, but there's also a lot of junk. Thursdays are great for me, because that's my writer's group day, so I'm usually still inspired from that.
Thanks again folks, hope to see you here next Thursday.
Sheila Deeth Oct 23, 2009, 12:52am EDT
Oh wow. What a great discussion I missed. This was really fun, but now I've used up almost all my available gather time. Still, profitably used... Thanks everyone.
JOHN BECK Oct 23, 2009, 7:52am EDT
I came back this morning to catch what I missed and I'm glad I did. It's fun pretending I'm a writer!
Pat Bertram Oct 23, 2009, 8:02pm EDT
Ahem! Pretending to be a writer? Aren't you the one who submitted a short story to William Adler's contest? Aren't you the one who writes such marvelous poetry in all sorts of different formats? If anyone is pretending to be a writer, it's me. I haven't written anything in so long, I have to start calling myself a blogger or . . . horrors! A book marketing floozy!
JOHN BECK Oct 23, 2009, 8:09pm EDT
I consider myself at most to be a would-be writer but it's fun learning from the real thing. Thank you, Pat.
Angela A. Oct 23, 2009, 8:20am EDT
I'm sorry I couldn't make it this week. Being a female can sure be crampy.. I mean crappy sometimes. Te he!
I hope to make it next week.
Pat Bertram Oct 23, 2009, 8:00pm EDT
We missed you, Angela. Glad you were able to stop by anyway.
Angel sent from God Secret Sisters Nov 1, 2009, 4:50pm EST
Haven't written anything lately , but will be starting the sequel to my Forbidden Fruit

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