BUT UNDERSTAND THIS! . . .

Thanks so much for sharing! Yes, how very true......we can see a lot of all of this going on each and every day!

Very much so Nora. Thank you for reading and commenting. I'm SEEing it more and more here in Gatherland. The Internet serves as a barometer for the "thoughts" and "hearts" of people, because they can hide behind the screen and not have their faces seen.

Although this was written in A.D. 66-67 by Paul in Rome, how very TRUE is this PROPHECY.

I appreciate what you've shared in your comment.

This is an interesting post.

Wow, this sounds like one of those Real Housewives shows doesn't it?

Karen ~ Thanks for reading and commenting ~ smiles. I like your ICON.

d g. ~ I'm laughing, because actually, I was looking at one of those Housewives shows the other night (the Atlanta one), and wondering WHY they called it "Atlanta Housewives"... only two of them are Housewives, the other three are single ~ one lives with a man, one is divorced from a man, and one is ENGAGED to a MARRIED MAN? ~ BIG QUESTION MARK! . . .

How can a woman be engaged to a MARRIED MAN? And WHY would she want to tell anyone that?

Thank you so much for commenting on this Scripture. And, YES, the behavior on that show was appalling to say the least. To see women calling each other female dogs is sickening. Sad to see grown women with children do that.

I was saddened to hear about the man (A.J.) who was killed in REAL LIFE on there though ~ through REAL~LIFE VIOLENCE in Atlanta.

I guess everyone missed the tiny moment when Kim said "Big Papa" was divorced from his wife and she (Kim), broke it off with "Big Papa" He was divorced from his wife for many months now.

Yeah ~ I didn't catch that at all Helen. I must have just been stuck on the fact that he was MARRIED. I thought I heard her say that he was dragging his feet on getting a divorce. But, I guess the most disturbing thing is that she was dealing with him at all -- He was MARRIED. How can anyone expect a person who is MARRIED to be FAITHFUL to them? I mean REALLY. It just makes no sense. And, why would any woman break up another woman's home? WHY? He does have children...I think I got that part right.

or was his "divorce" a fabrication of her imagination? ps. she can not sing. ouch my ears!

Hahaha! ~ d d. You know, you may have a point about the fabrication of her imagination. And, you're also right about her singing. The amazing things that a Recording Studio can do! L O L.

interesting!

Thank you for taking the time to read and comment Sandi ~ I appreciate it!

So, all the blame is on women? Human trafficking is an industry created by greedy, soulless men, for the benefit of soulless men who have no control over their own urges, and who have nothing but contempt for women and children. Yes, we see all of these things going on every day, but it's the strength of women that leads the world to stop them. And I suppose my 3-yr old daughter was being 'weak' when she was raped by the grandfather who pretended to love her? Don't be blindly led by words written by people you don't know and that make no sense. Just because they are written, doesn't make them true. Look into your own soul and ask if they make sense. The words you wrote are blasphemies written by man, and have nothing to do with God.

Yeah, I pinged on "women" too. Just women? Hmmm ...

My apologies Katherine and Barb for not posting the entire Scripture. I thought it would be too long . . . However, if you read this closely, you both will find that this Scripture is talking about male Ministers " worming their way into the homes of women. And, it says to avoid such men, and turn away from them. There is nothing NICE about what is said of these men. Yet it was TRUE THEN, and it is still TRUE TODAY.

Katherine and Barb ~ WE are ALL WOMEN. Do I think that I am what is described in this Scripture? NO. I am sure that neither of you two do either. However, there ARE women like this TODAY, just as there were back then.

This Scripture was written by a man (led by the Holy Spirit), from the place in which he was witnessing, at a time (A.D. 66-67). God is no respecter of persons. And the Bible speaks just the same about men and their short-comings as it does about women. The TRUTH is not always pretty.

And while there were (AND ARE TODAY) "silly women", "weak-natured" and "spiritually dwarfed", loaded down with [the burden of their] sins [and easily] swayed and led away by various evil desires and seductive impulses. The same holds TRUE for men.

Katherine ~ I am very sorry to hear about what happened to your daughter. That is an awful report. You and I, and anyone who hears of this KNOWS that your daughter is not to blame for what happened. I am truly sorry to hear this. And, I am sorry to hear of it every time I hear of it, and I hear of it often.

I am never blindly led, and the Scripture makes perfect sense to me. But that may have much to do with my Biblical Studies, and my EYES being WIDE OPEN ~ which is sometimes disconcerting. . . .

Although you may not think so, this Scripture is talking about exactly what you are talking about in reference to MEN.

I am putting more of Scripture in the next box. . .

Continuing with more of the Scripture . . .

Now just as Jannes and Jambres (men) were hostile to and resisted Moses, so these men also are hostile to and oppose the Truth. they have depraved and distorted minds, and are reprobate and counterfeit and to be rejected as far as the faith is concerned.

But they will not get very far, for their rash folly will become obvious to everybody, as was that of those [magicians mentioned].

II TIMOTHY 3:8-9 ~ AMPLIFIED BIBLE

But wicked men and imposters will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and leading astray others and being deceived and led astray themselves.

But as for you, continue to hold to the things that you have learned and of which you are convinced, knowing from whom you learned [them].

And how from your childhood you have had a knowledge of and been acquainted with the sacred Writings, which are able to instruct you and give you the understanding for salvation which comes through faith in Christ Jesus [through the leaning of the entire human personality on God in Christ Jesus in absolute trust and confidence in His power, wisdom, and goodness].

II TIMOTHY 3:13-15 ~ AMPLIFIED Bible

Do read the ENTIRE SCRIPTURE, and if you have a Bible Commentary, it is better to read it together with the Commentary so that the Scripture will come clearer.

Ah ha ha rene :) I can't help but laugh. No matter how hard we try ... someone is going to bring an unsuspected perspective to the article.

I'm glad they felt free to speak out so you could elaborate though.

What I first heard as I read through the scripture was how much nonsense I spend my money on. We have the option, rich, middle class or poor, to share with those that have less than us. There are so many goodies out on the market that we forget we have the choice to do without and bless others in financial need with some of our own hard earned cash.
I really think your posting that portion changed my life a tiny direction today. Thanks.

WoW Glome! I'm so glad you stopped by. I really love to hear your thoughts. Sometimes I have to laugh too Glome ~ (even though in the depths of me, I realize that it is not funny)....

Most of the time it is always the "ANGER" of a person who jumps into the mix and attacks, and then talks about something totally unrelated to the Scripture at hand, but most times related to "flash~backs" from the past.

There are a lot of people who have been hurt by churches and "religious" people -- sometimes those very people are the people who have been the closest to them. And, for many, it is hard to separate the two.

The "religious mouth" is like a weapon that does not bode well if the mouth is not being operated by the Spirit of the Living God.

Even though, this very Scripture speaks on those types of "religious people" -- "For [although] they hold a form of piety(true religion), they deny and reject and are strangers to the power of it [their conduct belies the genuineness of their profession]."

The POWER of it rest in the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Spirit, "religion" is dead. It becomes nothing but "noise".

YES,
But I think that these weak women also contains weak men..For their are times I stand strong with HELL coming to my front door. I am human for mistakes are made but my heart is strong. Where your heart is so be your treasure. I am rich there ! But living in a world of lies and deceit as robbed me so many times trying to help others. GOOD POST !

Hi Korak ~ Indeed this Scripture is also about weak men.

I like what you have said about STANDING STRONG. Your heart ~ and your TREASURE {smiles on the RICHNESS of this connection}.

For all the GOOD that you have done trying to help others, I'm sure that it is noted in Heaven. And, regardless of the lies and deceit that WE all run into walking in this world, WE must KNOW that there is a God who TRUMPS ALL of the wickedness that WE will ever encounter.

Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with us.

HUGS ~
Your Friend,
Rene

Thank you for your words of support . I feel alone alot..well i do live alone but that is not what i mean. I just feel that being born in another time than these would have been much better for me. thank you.

Hey Korak! You're welcome. There are so many people who feel alone, even though they are living with others...I understand what you are saying about being born in another time than the time WE are living in now. It is not a mistake that you were born at this time. You were born for such a time as this, even if it does not feel like it. What would the world be like if there was no "salt", no "light", no "good~spirited" people such as yourself? Can you imagine that?

I don't think that hateful and evil-minded people truly understand the vibrations that they carry wherever they go. Have you ever walked into a room and felt the bad vibes, and no one is even there?

If any of us watches the NEWS for any length of time, our countenance will change if we let it.

MORE GOOD PEOPLE NEEDED ~ This is the TIME you are truly needed Korak ~ truly.

HUGE HUGS for being just who you are ~ For such a TIME as this!

A prophecy for our time for sure...I commend you for posting it and commend your courage!

Hi brojer ~ Thank you for your kind words, because if there is anything that gets attacked to the EXTREME, it is the Word of God, and those who follow the Word of God. And, I often wonder WHY wickedness is not attacked as hard, or vulgarity, or evil, or...

HUGS to YOU!
. . .and THANK YOU for adding to this thread.

Very good post Rene,.

Thanks Randall! It's always good to hear from you.

Sounds like last week on Gather. LOL!

Sounds like every week on Gather in one way or another Barb ~ L O L.

Thanks for taking the time to read this Scripture and comment.

Your Friend,
Rene

Very interesting.

killing some truths

Master Poet Poddar ~ Of course, I checked out your LINK, and what a LINK it was! ~ Very interesting to say the least ~ L O L. Whatever you do, DO keep writing your poetics. It's the BUZZ around here!

This is so true and is happening more every day. thanks for sharing! God bless you!

Many BLESSINGS to you too Cathie! Thank you for reading this Scripture and adding in your thoughts.

I've heard several stories just within the last couple of days about husbands killing their wives: One that burned up his wife in the trunk of his car, and then jumped off the bridge; and another case where the husband killed his wife and five children as well...claiming "demons" made him do it.

PRAYER is so desperately needed for those things that WE cannot SEE ~ everywhere ~ every day ~ ALL THE TIME.

There are so many tormented souls in the world...

May God cover you at all times Cathie. ~ HUGS.

This has been true for awhile now. Thanks for sharing the Bible verse.

YES, M C., true. Thank you for taking the time to read this Scripture and comment too.

Lovers of self
true, sincere, intimate
have no room
for money
or other such fantasy
Magnificent Me
is ALL

Interesting response to this Scripture Libramoon. I hope you come back to expound upon what you've said.

Thanks for reading this and adding in your thoughts.

High sounding words! So, should we take heed out of fear? Seems like all this stuff has come to pass many times already, starting with the day that humans initially took up formal religions.

Hi Gary! ~ FEAR? Tell us what you mean by that.

I don't agree that all that is said in the Scripture has come to pass already. Not at all...

Never have WE seen such GREED, such ARROGANCE, to the point of wiping households out. Where people who have worked their whole life in an honest fashion have lost all that they have ever worked for in one full swoop. Foreclosures that boggle the mind. Job loses like we've never seen. Oil prices that fluctuate for no apparent reason ~ people freezing to death because they can not afford heating costs. Some people making decisions to eat or put gas in the car or pay a utility bill or pay a house note. GREED is just one of the many things in this Scripture that is totally out of control at this time. Coming to pass ~ yes.

Fear, as in taking action motivated by the fear of some supernatural reprisal.

I did not say that all that is said in the scriptures has already come to pass. What I intended to mean is that ever since formal religions have come to be people have been saying essentially what your post says. Every generation seems to think that things are the worst they have ever been. And the next generation will say essentially the same thing and begin quoting bible passages.

Rene, somewhere at every point in history, there are peoples who could say honestly that they have never seen such greed, such arrogance, etc. Cases in point: Europe in WWII - Hitler made their lives a living hell. Saddam Husein made the lives of the Kurds a living hell with his greed and arrogance and wiping out entire households. If you were a black slave before the Civil War, you would have been subjected to great greed, arrogance and destruction of your households when you were taken from Africa and shipped across the ocean for forced servitude. WWI was pretty nasty too. There are many, many, many more examples I could cite! But I think you get my point.

People are always and have always predicted:
"that in the last days will come (set in) perilous times of great stress and trouble [hard to deal with and hard to bear].

For people will be lovers of self and [utterly] self-centered, lovers of money and aroused by an inordinate [greedy] desire for wealth, proud and arrogant and contemptuous boasters. They will be abusive (blasphemous, scoffing), disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy and profane."
etc., etc.,

There's just nothing new in this message. The so-called Last Days have been predicted over and over and over in every generation since Jesus. Jesus himself said that all would see the end within their lifetimes. He was wrong then and ALL others since have been wrong! I really don't mean any personal offense, but I just don't see any supernatural accounting about to happen.

Hi Gary ... It is true that every age has reflected the fact that "Man is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked." Christian revival comes to different countries at different times. It rises and wanes. Morality in general, without the direct influence of Christianity does the same. So obviously the scriptures are speaking of an even greater decline than is historically recorded.
I would love to see stats ... but I believe people are richer today in general than they have ever been before. Our eyes are bigger than our stomachs. People buying, in mass, humongous homes they can hardly afford; filling them with furniture on their charge cards. Many holding back no desire of their heart. Bankruptcies at an all time high & as rene says, foreclosures also.
Others are addicted to food (Me) others to sex. We are a fat and promiscuous nation. Worse morally than we have ever been. And it appears that the other nations are as immoral (If not as rich) as we are.

God said He divided the nations. Nimrod apparently tried to gather the people under one government by building the tower of Babel & God thwarted the plan. Power corrupts. How foolish to have only one power on the earth. We are once again facing a fairly strong, deceitful, incompetent group trying to reign us all in under one prevailing power; the UN. And our eyes are so blinded we are rushing to give up our freedom & submit to that foolish world wide government. Another world wide happening.

So I'd say you're right. It isn't here yet. Not today. The end time. But a blatantly immoral world is coming together in a way it has never done before. The financial situation is cracking on a world wide scale. Keep watching . . .
PS You're last paragraph isn't really accurate you know :)

Hi Gary & Glome! Oh GOOD ~ I love a good conversation, and you two are both such good conversationalists.

Gary ~ Where is the Bible does it say anything about "Jesus himself said that all would see the end within their lifetimes." ? ~ Curious to know.

I understand what you are relaying Gary. I just believe that WE are closer to the END than some people think (no offense to you ~ l o l) at this moment. . . .

FIRST, WE will SEE more of the natural taking effect (which it is NOW) before the SUPERNATURAL takes over. First, we'll SEE places on the globe disappearing completely ~ being wiped out by MUDSLIDES, EARTHQUAKES, FLOODS, and FIRE. Along with those places, go many PEOPLE. Then, more of the same.

Glome, you provided some very good points, and added in some very good wisdom...

". . . a blatantly immoral world is coming together in a way it has never done before. The financial situation is cracking on a world wide scale. Keep watching . . ." ~ Glome

Glome, exactly how is my last paragraph not really accurate? Please explain.

Rene, once again, I could cite example after example of times when people thought the world was in the worst shape it has ever been. Check out the black plague that swept Europe. The dark ages. When Vesuvius blew and buried Pompey. I don't know, it just seems so very obvious to me that today is no worse than yesterday,.... somewhere in the world! And somewhere, today really is worse than yesterday! And, somewhere in the world, today is BETTER than yesterday! Seems like it kind of depends on your particular perspective and where you happen to be in the world. I simply see nothing unique about the situation in the U.S. and other countries that warrants a prediction that the end is near. For 2 THOUSAND years, we have been waiting. How much longer???? Can you be specific? In another 2000 years? In another 200? In 20? In 2?

Read your bible again:

Mark 13:30-33: Jesus is recorded as saying: "....This generation shall not pass away, until all these things be accomplished....

Matthew 16:28: Jesus is recorded as saying: "...there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

Matthew 24:34: Jesus is recorded as saying: "...This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

Luke 9:26-27: Jesus is recorded as saying: "For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels. But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God."

Kind of seems pretty clear doesn't it?

Hi Gary ~ I wish that I could be more specific and pinpoint the EXACT date for you. However, I am not God ~ l o l. I personally think that it will be before the year 2012. But of course, I could be wrong.

I'm coming back to get into your Scripture references that you've left here. I'd like to get into a commentary on what you've shared, because those Scriptures have to be fully explained.

Those Scriptures are clear to me, but as you've explained it, the sense that I get is that they are not clear to you.

I'll be back!

Hi Gary & ALL ~ I'm back. About your Scriptural References Gary . . .

Mark 13:30-33: Jesus is recorded as saying: "....This generation shall not pass away, until all these things be accomplished....

AMPLIFIED Bible: Surely I say to you, this generation (the whole multitude of people living at that one time) positively will not perish or pass away before all these things take place. Heaven and earth will perish and pass away, but My words will not perish or pass away. But of that day or that hour not a [single] person knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. ~ MARK 13:30-33

Gary ~ This Scripture is speaking of a race of people -- particularly the Jewish people -- those with a deep-seated ANIMOSITY toward the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus predicted that the nation and its national characteristic would continue until His Second Advent.

Going to the next comment box to continue . . .

. . . continuing . . .

Matthew 16:28: Jesus is recorded as saying: "...there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

This Scripture are speaking of the incident on the Mount of Transfiguration. It was there that Peter, James, and John saw Christ transfigured. They were actually privileged to have a preview of Christ in the Glory of His Kingdom. [consider the first 8 verses of the next chapter].

...going to the next comment box...

. . . continuing . . .

Matthew 24:34: Jesus is recorded as saying: "...This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

and

Luke 9:26-27: Jesus is recorded as saying: "For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels. But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God."

I'll be back to leave comments in reference to these Scriptures Gary.

Rene: You said: Gary ~ This Scripture is speaking of a race of people
How do you Know it is speaking of a Race of people? The text clearly states "this generation" and that means to me just what it says and just what "this generation" means to us today. It doesn't refer to the Next generation - it says This Generation.

I am not familiar with your Amplified Bible, but I would ask by whose authority is it's interpretation based on? The original Hebrew?

In any case, when you say the whole multitude of people living at that one time it still means to me what it would mean to most anyone - the whole multitude of people living at that time have already died, each and every one of them. I don't see how you get the meaning that it refers to a People as a race. I don't see the Bible text stating that at all.

Rene you say: Matthew 16:28: Jesus is recorded as saying: "...there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

This Scripture are speaking of the incident on the Mount of Transfiguration. It was there that Peter, James, and John saw Christ transfigured. They were actually privileged to have a preview of Christ in the Glory of His Kingdom. [consider the first 8 verses of the next chapter].

I don't understand how the "Scripture... speaking of the incident on the Mount..." has anything to do with the fact that Jesus said that there would be some who would still be alive by the time they see the kingdom of god. What he said is what he said. Perhaps you interpreting his words differently or reading things into his words. I just don't see it. On the other hand, I can be pretty dense at times. :-)

Perhaps it is all in the translation or an individual's interpretation or person's willingness to artificially connect dots where there are only vague dots to connect at best. As for me, I just don't think that Jesus meant anything other than what he specifically said and what other biblical personalities said he said. If the bible cannot be clear and unambiguous about these things without stretching interpretations that have to be taken in light of other passages way down the line or somewhere else altogether, then I choose to simply conclude that Jesus' statements were erroneous.

Rene, I don't begrudge you your beliefs or your interpretations! I just cannot accept them for myself. Perhaps we can just agree to disagree?

Hi Gary ~ I'm going to respond to all that you've left above. I'm glad you came back, because I think that this can be a very good discussion!

First, you asked about the AMPLIFIED BIBLE . . .

"I am not familiar with your Amplified Bible, but I would ask by whose authority is it's interpretation based on? The original Hebrew?" ~ Gary

It is my favorite translation of the Bible. And, I highly recommend it. It captures the original Greek and Hebrew meaning of the Bible. In 1958, The Lockman Foundation and Zondervan Publishing House issued the first edition of The AMPLIFIED New Testament after more than 20,000 hours of research and prayerful study. Some four years later the first of two Old Testament volumes appeared (The AMPLIFIED Old Testament, Part Two -- Job to Malachi), followed in 1964 by the publication of The AMPLIFIED Old Testament, Part One -- Genesis to Esther. The next year (1965) The AMPLIFIED Bible came out in one volume. I have the EXPANDED EDITION.

The AMPLIFIED Bible opens up the Word and the Reader's understanding (in my most humble opinion).

Frances Siewert (Litt. B., B.D., M.A., Litt. D.) was a woman with an intense dedication to the study of the Bible. It was Mrs. Siewert (1881 - 1967) who laid the foundation of the AMPLIFIED Bible, devoting her life to a familiarity with the Bible, with the Hebrew and Greek languages, and with the cultural and archaeological background of Biblical times, which would result in the publication of the translation that I have in my possession. Readily available in most Book Stores.

I do have practically every version of the Bible ~ KJV, Catholic, and on and on.... and the APOCRYPHA. [Even The MESSAGE] ~ lol.

Going on to the next comment box to continue . . .

. . . continuing . . .

Gary ~ I'm bringing what you've said above down here to respond to . . .

Rene: You said: Gary ~ This Scripture is speaking of a race of people
How do you Know it is speaking of a Race of people? The text clearly states "this generation" and that means to me just what it says and just what "this generation" means to us today. It doesn't refer to the Next generation - it says This Generation.

In any case, when you say the whole multitude of people living at that one time it still means to me what it would mean to most anyone - the whole multitude of people living at that time have already died, each and every one of them. I don't see how you get the meaning that it refers to a People as a race. I don't see the Bible text stating that at all. ~ Gary

Gary, and all following this discussion, I'm going to the next comment box . . .

BIBLE STUDY

Gary let's take Mark 13:30 . . .

Verse 30 is often understood to mean that all things prophesied in the Chapter would take place while the men of Christ's day were still living. But, it cannot mean that because many of the events, (especially verses 24-27) simply did not take place at that time.

Others understand it to mean that the generation living when the fig tree put forth its leaves, that is, when the nation of Israel was formed in 1948, would be the generation that would see the Second Advent.

Then, there is a 3rd VIEW: "This generation" means "this race". Meaning, "This Jewish Race" ~ those characterized by unbelief and rejection of the Messiah. The testimony of history is that "this generation" has not passed away. The nation as a whole -- and has not only survived as a distinct people, but has continued in its deep-seated animosity toward the Lord Jesus. Jesus predicted that the nation and its national characteristic would continue until His Second Advent. [This does not mean that there are not Jewish people who believe in Jesus Christ. As we know, there are Messianic Jews.]

When we read the Bible we must first understand the time period in which it is set, understand the history of what has happened, and understand where we are at this time. We must also understand the people the Scriptures refer to. This asks of us to read (into) the entire Scripture prayerfully. We can not just pick a verse and understand it without relating it to the entire picture of what is being relayed.

After reading Mark Chapter 13 Gary in its entirety ~ particularly Verses 24 through 27 tell me if you still feel the same way about the LITERAL translation that you've ascribed to.

Rene:
Verse 30 is often understood to mean that all things prophesied in the Chapter would take place while the men of Christ's day were still living. But, it cannot mean that because many of the events, (especially verses 24-27) simply did not take place at that time.

I respectfully disagree! Yes it CAN mean that. Jesus was wrong. You are assuming that the scripture it absolute truth. I do not assume this at all. In my humble opinion, Jesus was simply wrong! You are assuming the truth of something to prove that it is not false (in other words, true). This is a very basic error of logic.

Others understand it to mean that the generation living when the fig tree put forth its leaves, that is, when the nation of Israel was formed in 1948, would be the generation that would see the Second Advent.

Others may understand it that way, but I do not.

Then, there is a 3rd VIEW: "This generation" means "this race". Meaning, "This Jewish Race" ~ those characterized by unbelief and rejection of the Messiah.

Again, I do not take this view either. With all the different views, it should be obvious that interpretations vary wildly. And there are many experts, besides the one's you have named, that have spent entire careers in translating and understanding the bible. They can't all be right!

This asks of us to read (into) the entire Scripture prayerfully. But, I don't try to "read into" anything in the scripture that is not there. If the scripture was god-inspired, then it seems to me that if god wanted us to understand something, he would have said it outright without ambiguation and clearly enough for anyone to understand - after all, he is god isn't he?

We can not just pick a verse and understand it without relating it to the entire picture of what is being relayed.

Yes, we can. If the verse is clear and unambiguous, then we must interpret it the way it was written, instead of trying to dig up alternative meanings elsewhere in the bible to force a different interpretation just because you don't agree that it could possibly be true otherwise. Once again, you are assuming that all of the scripture is true without exception, therefor you are Reaching and grasping at straws because you cannot accept that any part of it could possibly be false. I, however do not make this initial assumption - I simply have no reason to assume that anything is true just because it is written somewhere. The bible is a book, and you cannot prove that the contents of that bible are true by first assuming that it is true. You see the logical error?

After reading Mark Chapter 13 Gary in its entirety ~ particularly Verses 24 through 27 tell me if you still feel the same way about the LITERAL translation that you've ascribed to.

Sorry, Rene, but yes I still believe that Jesus was wrong. Mark Chapter 13 only shows Jesus talking to his followers about all the signs THEY will see. And even if Jesus had said unambiguously that he is now talking about the far future, it still doesn't mean he was right in his previous statements that I quoted in an earlier comment.

And even if Jesus is saying what you think he is saying in Mark Chapter 13, I would still have to say that he is wrong since it appears to me that somewhere, sometime, all of the vague signs he gives can be interpreted in any number of vastly different ways. There have been many devastating earthquakes through the history of mankind. There have been many many times when the stars have fallen out of the sky - meteor showers, some quite spectacular over the centuries. There haven been floods, famine, pestilence many times in many different lands. Brother has turned against brother already also - the Civil War should have made this clear enough when so many families were split between the North and the South.

Rene, I do hope we can just agree to disagree.

Hi Gary ~ We can sincerely AGREE to disagree. Of that there is no doubt. Especially in relation to this: "Sorry, Rene, but yes I still believe that Jesus was wrong." ~ Gary

But, I truly am baffled at why you would say this . . . "If the verse is clear and unambiguous, then we must interpret it the way it was written, instead of trying to dig up alternative meanings elsewhere in the bible to force a different interpretation just because you don't agree that it could possibly be true otherwise." ~ Gary

What you said is akin to saying that your history does not matter. That if someone were to give a slice of your life to a crowd of people ~ yet you have lived, changed, experienced different things, and become a different man in your content and character -- that slice of your life is the ULTIMATE TRUTH of who you are. If I were to find out other things about you, then of course, everyone would say that I was just digging up alternative meanings elsewhere in your life to force a different interpretation of who you are. And, of course someone would no doubt say that . . . "I'm sorry Rene, but I still believe that Gary was wrong." ~ But, maybe you were RIGHT, and maybe if they read further into your life that would discover the same thing.

Now, if I were to prayerfully ask about who you are with the assistance of the Holy Spirit, I would come to a truthful revelation of who you are. And, it would not matter what anybody else said about you (including "you"). What the Holy Spirit reveals STANDS.

Going on with your other statement . . .

"This asks of us to read (into) the entire Scripture prayerfully. But, I don't try to "read into" anything in the scripture that is not there. If the scripture was god-inspired, then it seems to me that if god wanted us to understand something, he would have said it outright without ambiguation and clearly enough for anyone to understand - after all, he is god isn't he?" ~ Gary

The Scriptures are not ambiguous Gary. They are not at all hard to understand. And, yes, the Scriptures are "God inspired" as you have said. However, if a person believes that the Old Testament was not replaced with the New Testament, and they read it literally, then they will not understand where WE are TODAY. It is a historical path. It tells of how people lived, believed, and acted in that day and age.

It is Jesus Who ushered in the New Testament. If you have not read the Bible "prayerfully" with the divine source (being the Holy Spirit) to give you revelation of the Scriptures, then, of course, you will feel the way that you feel. You don't have to believe me Gary. It is alright with me.

Our faith should not rest in the wisdom of men (human philosophy), but in the POWER of God ~ SEE 1 Corinthians 2:5

"Yet when we are among the full-grown (spiritually mature Christians who are ripe in understanding), we do impart a [higher] wisdom (the knowledge of the divine plan previously hidden); but it is indeed not a wisdom of this present age or of this world nor of the leaders and rulers of this age, who are being brought to nothing and are doomed to pass away. But rather what we are setting forth is a wisdom of God once hidden [from human understanding] and now revealed to us by God--[that wisdom] which God devised and decreed before the ages for our glorification [to lift us into the glory of His presence]." ~ 1 Corinthians 2:6 ~ AMPLIFIED Bible

"And we are setting these truths forth in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the [Holy] Spirit, combining and interpreting spiritual truths with spiritual language [to those who possess the Holy Spirit]. ~ 1 Corinthians 2:13 ~ AMPLIFIED Bible

Those Scriptures above are plain and clearly understandable in any version of the Bible Gary. And, I put those here because I know that you do not try to read anything into the Scriptures that is not there.

But back to what you ended with ~ "WE can AGREE to disagree" ~ respectfully, and with HUGS.

Rene: Yes it looks like we will have to agree to disagree. But I can't resist one further thought. Yup, I know I should just let it drop, but as you know I can be a stubborn character. :-)

Central to the Christian religion is the fact that Jesus was god. His life on Earth in the person of a human was only a single facet of the trinity. But although Jesus was fully human, he was also fully god.

My point: If Jesus was god, then how come he didn't choose have the bible written in such a way that anyone and everyone could understand? Did he not think that people would not be reading and debating it today? Jesus may have been more specific and accurate later in the bible, but that still does not mean that he was right the first time he said all these things would come to pass within the lifetimes of the people standing there. Perhaps he corrected himself. But as a god, I would think he'd get it right the first time and take any mystery or debate out of the equation right off the bat!

And why didn't god/Jesus write the bible himself? And why only in Hebrew? Why not in English too? Did Jesus/God not know there would be English-speaking people?

You said: that slice of your life is the ULTIMATE TRUTH of who you are.

It would most certainly be the ultimate truth of who I WAS. And if I was wrong back then,... well, then I was wrong back then. How could a god possibly be wrong at any time of his existence??

Rene, a great many theists, you must admit, will disagree with how YOU interpret and choose to read the bible. There SOooo many theologians that will disagree with your assessment of the truth of all the scriptures. I just can't see what you think is so special about YOUR own special assessment, especially since there are so many others that think that THEIR own assessment is correct with every bit of the passion that you believe what you do. They believe they are right and you are wrong with the same passion that you believe you are right.

I will wait for the End Times once again for the umpteenth time. But I suspect that neither you nor I shall ever see them. We both will wait and see, eh?

In any case, I appreciate having had this dialog with you!!

L O L Gary! It really isn't my own special assessment of the Bible. It is from the Believer's Bible Commentary by William MacDonald [the points about Verse 30] ~ because I think that the Commentary explains it well. You should take a look at it if you get a chance.

On this point that you've just made Gary ~ "How could a god possibly be wrong at any time of his existence??" . . .

I didn't say God was wrong ~ you did. The Bible IS written in many different languages Gary ~ you know that.

I enjoyed having this dialog with you too. You've shared a LOT!

HUGS ~
Rene

LOL Rene! It IS your special assessment of the bible if you have taken on the belief in that Believer's Bible Commentary. Are you disowning that assessment now? Or do you still accept it to and make it your own? In any case, you seem to have missed my point altogether. Just remember that the word "Believer's" in the Believer's Bible Commentary is the KEY WORD. For those who do not automatically believe that everything in the bible is true, then what? Is there a non-believer's bible commentary? Oh, well. sigh

I don't know how you can possibly think that the bible was ever written in English. That is indeed a new one on me - I have never, ever heard that claim before. The bible may have been TRANSLATED into English from original Hebrew or Coptic, but never was it written in English, except possibly for the Mormon part of it. And even then, it was still a translation by an angel who supposedly spoke to Joseph Smith. So, I am sorry, but I do NOT know this at all!

I wish you well! :-)

Ahahahh ~ Gary, you know "A non-believer's bible commentary" would not ever be necessary. . . there are too many people who are just nay~sayers. I doubt if they'd have time to write it. It would take a lot of research to refute the Bible, and they'd probably argue over it after they had written it. And, even after all of that, the words of the Bible will still hold TRUE.

I stand by what I said earlier, and I never said that the Bible was ever written in English. I don't know where you got that from. WE ALL KNOW that the Bible was not written in English first. It was translated into English.

I wish you well too Gary ~ ALWAYS.
Your Friend,
Rene

Rene, I got that from your response to my question as to why the bible wasn't written in English "The Bible IS written in many different languages Gary ~ you know that." I am disappointed at the wording change you resorted to. You do know very well where I got that from!

No, I would never try to refute the bible because I would have no idea where to start. I wouldn't even know which version of the bible to start with.
King James Version
New International Version
Revised Standard Version
The Living Bible
New Living Translation
World English Bible
New King James Version
New International Readers Editions
American Standard Version
New American Standard Version
Young's Literal Translation
Plain English Bible
New English Bible
Amplified Bible
Basic English Bible
Translator's NT
20th Century Bible
Modern King James Version
The Message
New Jerusalem Bible
Hebrew Names Version of World English Bible
Contemporary English Version
English Version for the Death
Good News Version
New Century Version
New Revised Standard Version
J. B. Phillips New Testament, modern English

Ahahah ~ Gary you left out a few others you know ~ smiles. Don't forget the Gnostic Bible and the Dead Sea Scrolls . . . L O L . . .

You know that I meant that the Bible is written in English TODAY, as in many other languages. Not originally written in English, because the writers doing the writing didn't even speak English.

HUGS ~ I'm still laughing at your list above my head.

I don't think there ever has been, throughout all of time, a time when these words were not true. The sins of Man, by which I mean men and women, have forever been the same. What has changed is the way in which we communicate and what we hold to be good, and true, and right.

If what you love and cherish are money and the things of this world, rather than the people, then you worship the false idols that have always been the plague of us all. The choice is and always has been up to you.

In my reply, I did not mean to retract from your words, only to place them in perspective. Many seek answers from wherever they can, a goal and purpose in life, yet unfulfilled, yet the purpose may be in a change of heart and trying to understand the people that we know. Mercy and Grace are also to be valued.

Dano ~ Your words are true ~ "What has changed is the way in which we communicate and what we hold to be good, and true, and right." ~ Dano

Thank you for posting, Rene. As you can see, if you post anything Biblical you are always going to get critics. But, I think the words of this Scripture are indeed for this day and time, including Gather. God bless you.

Smiles Yvonne. I so agree with what you've said as you know. God bless you too my Sister.

Thank you Rene for this post. Oh goodness, prophecy certainly is being fulfilled today. Like no other time in history. For those who refuse to see Biblical prophecies being fulfilled, well all we can do is pray for them.

Hi Monica ~ Another Sister with EYES WIDE OPEN. Thank you for reading this Scripture and responding.

PRAYER is certainly in order for this day and age.

Rene, I am glad you filled in some of the missing pieces. I should remember to use caution in reading quotes out of context.

It seems some here have the opinion that I'm a Christian-basher. Not true. I'm just a truth-seeker! Also, I'm an Atheist...NOW, let the bashing begin!

As others have posted, it does sound as though we are, and always have been, nearing the end. Just like the movie - every day is Groundhog Day. Hmmm, why the movie even teaches that the cycle can only be broken through change within ourselves. See, I don't need the Bible, I just need a good movie now and then. JUST KIDDING! But, it's true...all we can control is ourselves, so let's start there.

Hi Katherine ~ Thank you for coming back. I hope that you understand that I would never bash you for your beliefs.

I too love a good movie Katherine, but I also realize that the movie is not my Creator, nor can the movie save my soul.

I don't believe that you are a Christian-basher at all. I SEE something else that goes beyond your words, especially in relation to what you shared with us.

I too believe that "the cycle can only be broken through change within ourselves." ~ On this WE agree.

Thank you very much for adding in your thoughts.

Human nature has forever been the same, and it goes through cycles, the end times are but the end of one cycle going on to the next, all is relative.

Wise men have been aware of said cycles, and even wrote "books" about them later incorporated into the Bible(s) (Old and New) ... but conniving men made many changes to those words, modifying the meanings and intentions, because they were more interested in eternal power and control ... folks with thinking more in tune with what the Book(s) warn about as "Satanic" ...

The Book also warns about the consequences of any who modify and change any part of those words ... it speaks about the untrustability of Later day revelations and prophecy ...all things that sound very logical on the surface, because they are ... but fail to account for the real meaning and intention of the writers and inserters of those warnings in the first place ... even the elect may be deceived !

Beware that you believers most faithful in your Book(s) are not amongst those so deceived by writers of deception thousands of years ago ... if you are so deceived, then you will claim that I and these warnings are that which is deceived and of the Satanic Ant-Christ ...

Never the less, you have been warned ... again and again ... to each their own though. :-)

Jerry ~ Your comments are always so very interesting and entertaining.

Thanks for adding in your thoughts. I'm curious to know if you have read The NAG HAMMADI SCRIPTURES or The Gnostic Bible.

I'm also curious to know if you take everything LITERALLY, or if you go deeper using "Spirit"?

Rene', I have read quite a bit about those subjects and have studied the "Pistus Sophia" ... I take nothing literally, everything is spirit informed to the degree that I can intuitively connect.

Thanks Jerry for answering me.

Putting your words into context about what the Bible says, you have mentioned that the Bible speaks of . . . "it speaks about the untrustability of Later day revelations and prophecy. . . "

TODAY'S PROPHECIES by TRUE PROPHETS are the same yesterday, as they are TODAY. Meaning that if God is speaking through the PROPHET, then the PROPHECIES will not fail. The Bible is speaking of "False Prophets" who mislead the people. ALL THINGS should be tested by the Spirit. Christians are told to use their "discernment" to identify "false prophets", and not to follow them.

God is still speaking TODAY Jerry. There is nothing "false" that can remain that way in the presence of God. When a Christian (I'm speaking of just Christians at the moment) is operating in the Spirit, and has the Holy Spirit of God in operation within, then ALL is revealed. TRUTH. Whenever a Christian picks up the Bible regardless of what man says about it being "changed and re~arranged", it becomes a Living Word. The Word comes ALIVE.

It is no different than a person who speaks with their mouth and says one thing, but God speaks the TRUTH of the matter. And no different than looking at a person who says that they are healthy, but one who is operating in the Spirit can look right at that person, LOOK at their body, and SEE the actual sickness within.

Thanks much for answering my question. I'm glad to hear that "everything is 'spirit' informed to the degree that you can intuitively connect." . . .

You know that the Spirit operates without any help from the person. Your 'intuition' is not necessary ~ however, 'spiritual discernment' on your part is, and there is a difference between the two.

Rene', the things you say, though they be true, are not the understanding of many Christians, many who believe that all prophecy of value is but the old already stated in the Book ... far too many have completely ruled out new revelation due to the fearful warnings of their peers.

As to whether Spirit and INtuition are different or not, that could be simply a "semantic" thing ... for me they are pretty related. I always attempt the highest and best discernment though, of course. My INtuition always takes precedence over the literal printed words of others.

Hi Jerry ~ It is that problematic statement that I always see around Gatherland of people describing how Christians are...and yet the way in which these so~called Christians are described says that they are not Christians at all -- nor do the people usually making the statements about Christians have a clue about how REAL Christians think. Primarily because they are not Christians themselves.

I don't mean having the experience of being with or around Christians in name only. I mean being a TRUE Christian from the inside out. And, more importantly, KNOWING what TRUE Christianity is all about.

How Christians are described around Gatherland are in ways that are so foreign to all the Christians I know. Sounds like they are describing the "imposters" ~ the "false ones".

This statement that you made above Jerry . . .

"Rene', the things you say, though they be true, are not the understanding of many Christians, many who believe that all prophecy of value is but the old already stated in the Book ... far too many have completely ruled out new revelation due to the fearful warnings of their peers." ~ Jerry Kays

Where are these people that you speak of Jerry? Obviously they are not Apostolic or Pentecostal or Charismatic Christians. Obviously, they are not of the PROPHETIC MINISTRY.

Spirit and Intuition are different Jerry. For you they are pretty related, because you have not had an encounter with Spirit that showed you something different.

Spirit is what "illuminates" the Word -- not Intuition.

It is always nice to hear your point of view. You always bring forth information that tells us all how people are "thinking" out there ~ especially about Christians.

This was beautiful. You are wonderful!

Hi Terry ~ It is always WONDERFUL when your spirit enters into any conversation. Thank you so much.

Your Snippet Friend,
Rene

and may God Bless Rene Allen
Thank You
and it IS politically correct to say, and may "God Bless"

You know you are LOVED BeachBumSon!

BLESSINGS are ALWAYS politically correct to say...{smiles}.

I'm glad you read this. I'm coming over to your place to SEE what you have NEW!

Your Friend,
Rene

lovers of self?
not me
lovers of money?
not me
as long as I have a roof over my head and food and our dogs

I'm good

Hi Fred ~ You know what, there are more people like you around than were before, except they have one KEY POINT missing from their feelings about it -- the "I'm good" part. They are not too happy about having to focus on someone other than their "self", and they do not like the fact that they have "less money" because of loss of a job, loss of investments, thief, or any other mis~hap. They're pretty MAD about it, and they don't like the fact that they have to even pay money (that they don't have) to feed their dogs (that they never use to SEE much of -- but now, they are HOME MORE -- not having a job will do that to ya)....

Now, as for the roof over their heads? What roof? What house?

FOOD? What food? What money for food? Dogs? Who can feed them? Don't you see all these poor dogs and cats running around without homes?

Okay, I'm getting carried away . . . Let's just say that YOU are BLESSED my friend. And, I praise God for you!

Thanks so much for adding in some cheer and good~spirited thoughts.

I'm slapping my hands ~ l o l.

"I'm good"

Praise God Fred ~ Praise God.

HUGS ~
Your Friend,
Rene

HUGS

Hi Cassandra and David ~

Cassandra ~ The House of Cards is already "falling". And, yes, people are waking up at an alarming rate, because those things that have been prophesied are coming to past and can be "SEEN".

David ~ In response to what you've said above, I'd like to past these Scriptures on to you . . .

For the story and message of the cross is sheer absurdity and folly to those who are perishing and on their way to perdition, but to us who are being saved it is the [manifestation of] the power of God.

For it is written, I will baffle and render useless and destroy the learning of the learned and the philosophy of the philosophers and the cleverness of the clever and the discernment of the discerning; I will frustrate and nullify [them] and bring [them] to nothing.

I CORINTHIANS 1:18-19 ~ AMPLIFIED Bible

For this world's wisdom is foolishness (absurdity and stupidity) with God, for it is written, He lays hold of the wise in their [own] craftiness; And again, The Lord knows the thoughts and reasonings of the [humanly] wise and recognizes how futile they are.

I CORINTHIANS 3:19-20 ~ AMPLIFIED Bible

Thank you both for adding to this discussion.

Rene' more extremely true and pertinent quotes ... the only real problem then becomes whether one understands them well enough to see it it fits them ... or someone else ... the latter being the preference by far.

Those the most lost are those dwelling in darkness and calling it the light. :-)

Hi Jerry ~ I agree by far with your last line.

The Bible Scriptures are for EVERYONE. The object is "humility". No one is above the reading ~ no one. {smiles back!}

Hi Cassandra ~ POWERFUL thoughts you have here. I'm leaning toward the swine flu in terms of your last line ". . . genocide upon everyone upon the earth." -- just to name one path that your statement brings to mind. Of course, there are the wars that involve killing people with no apparent resolution in sight. Then you have people without God in their lives running around who kill family members, co-workers, lovers, friends and people they do not even know for what? People breeding dogs to tear other dogs and people into bits ~ What kind of human being would do something like that?

There is a spirit upon the earth that is not of God, and EVERYONE should be fortified against it ("spiritually") -- MENTAL HEALTH is at the forefront of most of life's challenges. There are people who have absolutely no "self-control" in any aspect of their life. They cannot handle difficulties, they can not talk things out, they do not reason properly, and they have absolutely no moral concept of how to conduct theirself.

Yes, I agree with your response to David that "this is the worst repeat of history I have ever seen. Worst than men being thrown to animals to be eaten alive, worst than burning people at the stake, worst than beheading for belief in God...." ~ Cassandra A.

While WE as a people should be WISER by now, WE can SEE that that is not the case. WE have NASA blowing holes into the moon . . . how wise is that?

And if folks weren't so full of themselves and their own pet beliefs or non-beliefs, they might find out as I have, that every ancient message from all over the entire world, from stories passed down through the ages by tribal sages, to books written by many differing societies, to the "coding" evident in ancient stone structures ... that we are in an end-time period right now ... that there will be a cosmic alignment in the year 2012 which only happens once every many thousand years ... there will be both physical and spiritual energy changes on scales unimaginable ...

To sit around poo poo-ing the idea and/or hiding your head in the sand will not help you in the slightest ... but to each their own, it's not like there have been no warnings.

Hi Jerry ~ I take it that you are responding to several of the people on this thread that seem to think that God's Word is just a fable, and that what WE are witnessing on this planet at this time (and what WE will witness -- if we are alive) is just a fairy~tale....

I AGREE with you that "every ancient message from all over the entire world, from stories passed down through the ages by tribal sages, to books written by many differing societies, to the "coding" evident in ancient stone structures ... that we are in an end-time period right now ... that there will be a cosmic alignment in the year 2012 which only happens once every many thousand years ... there will be both physical and spiritual energy changes on scales unimaginable ..." ~ Jerry Kays

However, I believe that the year 2012 is a bit far off, and that the "cosmic alignment" will occur before then. After all, some Mastermind thought it a good idea to blow a hole into the moon!

And, God only knows what else has been thought up and acted upon by man that we don't know about!

I also believe that the following will occur before that . . .

SEE next comment box . . .

Read the entire Chapter 24 of MATTHEW. Here is an excerpt . . .

"For then there will be great tribulation (affliction, distress, and oppression) such as has not been from the beginning of the world until ow -- no, and never will be [again].

And if those days had not been shortened, no human being would endure and survive, but for the sake of the elect (God's chosen ones) those days will be shortened."

MATTHEW 24:21-22 ~ AMPLIFIED Bible

I believe you will be particularly interested in these two verses Jerry . . .

"For false Christs and false prophets will arise, and they will show great signs and wonders so as to deceive and lead astray, if possible, even the elect (God's chosen ones).

See, I have warned you beforehand."

MATTHEW 24:24-25 ~ AMPLIFIED Bible

Rene' let the warnings enter the minds and register for those most in need ... the "Satan" of your Book has already done his distortion to the understandings of so many who believe themselves already saved and above reproach ... time will tell.

Though I love poking pins near inflated egos, my greater joy would be to get the attention of those who really could use the truth, those only misinformed, those dyed in the wool believers that are dark thinking themselves light will surley get their own "awakening" ... but it could take them another eternity, depending upon the size of their ego. :-)

You know Jerry ~ This discussion about the LIGHT and the DARK ~ The DARKNESS and the LIGHT could go on forever. Who knows what ~ Who is smarter than WHO. Who UNDERSTANDS truly, and who doesn't.

I'm not sure which book, and which satan you are speaking of Jerry. And, you know (wise one) that you do not have to wait on TIME to tell if "you" are SAVED or not. TIME is an illusion. I say unto you ~ Look unto the hills NOW!

Have you already had your AWAKENING Jerry? L O L...

What size is your EGO? That might be a sobering experience ~ The Game of WHO has the LARGEST EGO ~ Yeah!

Going to bet my score pad . . .

http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474977859053
confabulation

I went and I read, wondering where and if, it was somehow pertinent to me ... I can see where some might think so ... but I would naturally have to disagree with them. :-)

Hey Libramoon and Jerry ~ I read your writing Libramoon. Here is what I said to you . . .

Libramoon ~ It is the first two lines, and the last two lines that are the most POWERFUL and PROFOUND to me . . .


"In the infinite recesses of a sigh
trembling hearts create a pact of solitude"

and

"in service to a twisted course
too entrenched to question why"

SILENCE. Well Done.

Your poetics always leave the Reader with something to "think" about.

Jerry ~ I think that Libramoon's poetics, like all poetics (to me) fall on whomsoever they will. Not everyone reading the poetic piece will flow with it, feel it, or inhale it.

Everything written is not necessarily about a particular person or persons, although people can sometimes relate to what is written.

There is a very clear telling that one can SEE in people when they think that everything is about "them"... You know what I mean ~ People are talking about them, writing about them, laughing at them . . . and just maybe ~ they are not even concerned about them at all. But perhaps, just speaking from a place, writing from a place, laughing from a place that has no particular names attached to it. It's just a place from which to start.

HUGS to you both.

Good post, this scripture fits what we see today.

Thank you Jane. I so agree about the "fitting".

A prophecy for our time for sure,this is so true and is happening more every day!!

Loretta ~ You are so right. Clearly WE can SEE this rolling out as written.

Thank you for responding. You look ready for the Holidays!

HUGS ~
Your Friend,
Rene

This is a dead on shot on the world around us today.

So TRUE Samantha. Thank you for coming by to respond to this Scripture.