All this division is quite apparent to the rest of us, but do the Conservatives and Religious Right even know from whence they came?
I uitilized Wiki for a definition of both Conservatism and Liberalism and it seems like the Right got it wrong!
Development of Western conservatism
Historians use the word "conservative" to describe governments and leaders from the earliest recorded times, but it was not until the Age of Enlightenment, and the reaction to events surrounding the French Revolution of 1789, that modern conservatism rose as a distinct political attitude or train of thought. Many point to the rise of a conservative disposition in the wake of the Protestant Reformation, specifically to the works of influential Anglican theologian, Richard Hooker, emphasizing moderation in the political balancing of interests towards the goals of social harmony and common good. Edmund Burke’s polemic Reflections on the Revolution in France helped conservatism gain prominence. Edmund Burke opposed the French Revolution, which he saw as violent and chaotic.He pressed for parliamentary control of royal patronage and expenditure.[6]
His classical conservative position insisted that conservatism has no ideology, in the sense of a utopian program, with some form of master plan. Burke developed his ideas in response to the enlightened idea of a society guided by abstract reason. He anticipated the critique of modernism, a term used at the end of the 19th century by the Dutch religious conservative Abraham Kuyper. Burke did not seek "to give praise or blame to any thing which relates to human actions, and human concerns, on a simple view of the object in all the nakedness and solitude of metaphysical abstraction".[9]
He argued that some people have less reason than others, and thus some people will make better governments than others if they rely upon reason. The proper formulation of government came not from abstractions such as reason, but from time-honoured development of the state, piecemeal progress through experience, and the continuation of other important societal institutions such as the family and the church. Tradition draws on the wisdom of many generations and the tests of time, while reason may be a mask for the preferences of one man, and at best represents only the untested wisdom of one generation. However, Burke also wrote, "A state without the means of change is without the means of its conservation," but insisted that further change be organic rather than revolutionary. An attempt to modify the complex web of human interactions that form human society, for the sake of some doctrine or theory, runs the risk of running afoul of the iron law of unintended consequences.
Western conservatism has also been influenced by the Counter-Enlightenment works of Joseph de Maistre. Maistre argued for the restoration of hereditary monarchy, which he regarded as a divinely sanctioned institution, and for the indirect authority of the Pope over temporal matters. He also defended the principle of hierarchical authority, which the Revolution sought to destroy. Maistre published in 1819 his masterpiece Du Pape ("On the Pope"). The work is divided into four parts. In the first he argues that, in the church, the pope is sovereign, and that it is an essential characteristic of all sovereign power that its decisions should be subject to no appeal. Consequently, the pope is infallible in his teaching, since it is by his teaching that he exercises his sovereignty. In the remaining divisions the author examines the relations of the pope and the temporal powers, civilization and the welfare of nations, and the schismatic churches. He argues that nations require protection against abuses of power by a sovereignty superior to all others, and that this sovereignty should be that of the papacy, the historical saviour and maker of European civilization.
Conservatives strongly support the right of property, and Carl B. Cone, in Burke and the Nature of Politics, pointed out that this view, expressed as philosophy, also served the interests of the people involved.[10] Conservatives are usually economic liberals, diverging from classical liberalism in the tradition of Adam Smith.[11] Some conservatives look to a modified free market order, such as the American System, ordoliberalism, or Friedrich List's National System. The latter view differs from strict laissez-faire, in that the state's role is to promote competition while maintaining the national interest, community and identity.
Most conservatives strongly support the sovereign nation, and patriotically identify with their own nation. Nationalist separatist movements may simultaneously be both radical and conservative.
Religious conservatism
Religious conservatives seek to apply the teachings of particular ideologies to politics, sometimes by proclaiming the value of those teachings, at other times seeking to have those teachings influence laws. Religious conservatism may support, or be supported by, secular customs. In other places or at other times, religious conservatism may find itself at odds with the culture in which the believers reside. In some cultures, there is conflict between two or more different groups of religious conservatives, each claiming both that their view is correct, and that opposing views are wrong.
Because many religions preserve a founding text, or at least a set of well-established traditions, the possibility of radical religious conservatism arises. These are radical both in the sense of abolishing the status quo and of a perceived return to the radix or root of a belief. They are ante conservative in their claim to be preserving the belief in its original or pristine form. Radical religious conservatism generally sees the status quo as corrupted by abuses, corruption, or heresy. One example of such a movement was the radical reformation within the Protestant Reformation and the later restorationists of the 1800s. Similar phenomena have arisen in practically all the world's religions, in many cases triggered by the violent cultural collision between the traditional society in question and the modern Western society that has developed throughout the world over the past 500 years.
It seems to me taht the definition of Liberals is much more the way to strive to be as human beings.
| Liberalism |
Development[hide] |
Ideas[hide] |
Liberalism (from the Latin liberalis, suitable for a free man) is the belief in the importance of individual freedom. This belief is widely accepted today throughout the world, and was recognized as an important value by many philosophers throughout history. The Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius wrote praising "the idea of a polity administered with regard to equal rights and equal freedom of speech, and the idea of a kingly government which respects most of all the freedom of the governed".[1]
Modern liberalism has its roots in the Age of Enlightenment and rejects many foundational assumptions that dominated most earlier theories of government, such as the Divine Right of Kings, hereditary status, and established religion. John Locke is often credited with the philosophical foundations of modern liberalism. He wrote "no one ought to harm another in his life, health, liberty, or possessions."[2]
In the 17th Century, liberal ideas began to influence governments in Europe, in nations such as The Netherlands, Switzerland, England and Poland, but they were strongly opposed, often by armed might, by those who favored absolute monarchy and established religion. In the 18th Century, in America, the first modern liberal state was founded, without a monarch or a hereditary aristocracy.[3] The American Declaration of Independence, includes the words (which echo Locke) "all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that to insure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."[4]
Liberalism comes in many forms. According to John N. Gray, the essence of liberalism is toleration of different beliefs and of different ideas as to what constitutes a good life.
So, let us live "THE GOOD LIFE"!


Comments: 52
A. No!
A. They don't know whom they espouse either. :)
I have no idea where some people get their ideas
hu does that make sense ?
Fascism, pronounced /ĖfæŹÉŖzÉm/, comprises a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology[1][2][3][4] and a corporatist economic ideology developed in Italy.[5] Fascists believe that nations and/or races are in perpetual conflict whereby only the strong can survive by being healthy, vital, and by asserting themselves in conflict against the weak.[6]
Fascists advocate the creation of a single-party state.[7] Fascist governments forbid and suppress openness and opposition to the government and the fascist movement.[8] Fascism opposes class conflict, blames capitalist liberal democracies for its creation and communists for exploiting the concept.[9]
In the economic sphere, many fascist leaders have claimed to support a "Third Way" in economic policy, which they believed superior to both the rampant individualism of unrestrained capitalism and the severe control of state communism.[10][11] This was to be achieved by establishing significant government control over business and labour (Mussolini called his nation's system "the corporate state").[12][13] No common and concise definition exists for fascism and historians and political scientists disagree on what should be in any concise definition.[14]
Following the defeat of the Axis powers in World War II and the publicity surrounding the atrocities committed during the period of fascist governments, the term fascist has been used as a pejorative word.[15]
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how does that explain the PC mentality of the leftist loons ??
And, as I have tried to point out many times, there are other points of view that are neither "conservative" nor "liberal" nor a compromise between the two. The problem is that the liberal definition of conservative is "not liberal" and visa versa. Not much room for independent thought!!
It is because "nut job' and "Wing Nut" does fit them so thoroughly. There are Republicans, don't know where any more, the sane ones jumped ship ages ago. The conservative wing of the Republican party has given in to the religious Right factions, the White Supremicists, looking for a political platform to thwart, they are a dangerous bunch of lunatics. It is not just me and a handful of Democrats pointing this out either. I am sure Independents see the luncacy as well and no one is doing anything to quell this backward movement. Well, call us Liberals, but we are seeing in it and trying to do something to stop them. They are bound and determined to bring down the government, any government, and change it into a fundamentalist religious, hate filled bigotry cause. Danger Will Robinson!
Religion is a hierarchial system and is used by conservatives to help keep the lower classes lower.
Political conservatism works with social conservatism because of the validation and upholding of a hierarchial system, something that gags a liberal . . ha!
As a liberal I am not going to buy the idea that I have "betters' above me.
This has been a constant struggle in the U.S.A. since our beginning, the ones who think there is a "born" ruling class and those of us who refuse to believe such a thing!
I think all it takes to get rational perspectives, is to travel extensively, not as a tourist, but a resident for a time, and see how different systems work.
http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474977818944#