by Pat Bertram
Member since:
October 4, 2007

Topics -- No Whine, Just Champagne Writing Discussion #85

October 07, 2009 11:13 PM EDT
views: 69 | comments: 105

How was your writing week? What are you focused on now and what do you hope to be focused on next month? What are your writing concerns? What writing activities have you been involved with this week? Did you have any successes, breakthroughs, realizations?

If by chance you have nothing new to report and need a topic to focus on, then let's focus on topics. Daughter Am I should be published by next week (keeping my fingers crossed) and I start a virtual book tour on Saturday, October 17. (A virtual book tour is a tour of blogs instead of a tour of bookstores.) The first blogger who agreed to be a host for my tour chose November 12 and the second chose October 18, so I've been trying to connect the dates to make one tour instead of two, which means I will need approximately thirty different blog articles or activities to make sure that each stop is different. (Actually, I will need sixty, since I will also have to post something on my own blog.) A few bloggers are going to send me interview questions. One wants me to send photos of my work space. Another wants an article about the challenges of writing with a focus on research. And yet another wants an article about writing dialogue for a group. The remaining twenty or so are trusting me to come up with something interesting. So -- what would be some interesting topics? They can be about writing, or they can relate somehow to my novel.

Daughter Am I is a young woman/old gangsters coming of age tale that is being sold as mainstream, though it could just as easily be classified as a mystery.
 
When twenty-five-year-old Mary Stuart learns she inherited a farm from her recently murdered grandparents --grandparents her father claimed had died before she was born -- she becomes obsessed with finding out who they were and why someone wanted them dead. Along the way she accumulates a crew of feisty octogenarians --former gangsters and friends of her grandfather. She meets and falls in love Tim Olson, whose grandfather shared a deadly secret with her great-grandfather. Now Mary and Tim need to stay one step ahead of the killer who is desperate to dig up that secret.
Any suggestions?
 

Let’s talk.

The group No Whine, Just Champagne will meet here at this article for a live discussion about writing on October 8, 2009 at 9:00pm ET. I hope you will stop by. At least this time you cannot use the excuse that we don't talk about what you want to talk about! 

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Comments: 105

JOHN BECK Oct 7, 2009, 11:30pm EDT
Mainstream vs mystery. Hmmmm.
Pat Bertram Oct 7, 2009, 11:34pm EDT
It has to be classified somehow, I guess. The murder makes it mystery, the coming-of-age part makes it mainstream.
Wanda H. Oct 8, 2009, 7:08pm EDT
I love it already! Can't wait until it comes out.
Wanda H. Oct 8, 2009, 7:09pm EDT
I'm setting my timer so I can remember to get back here. Oh! I'm planning my Nano right now so that's where my writing mind is living right now.
Pat Bertram Oct 8, 2009, 9:05pm EDT
You can come here and plan it. We'll be glad to help.
JOHN BECK Oct 8, 2009, 9:02pm EDT
Good evening, writers.
Pat Bertram Oct 8, 2009, 9:05pm EDT
Hi, John.
Pat Bertram Oct 8, 2009, 9:05pm EDT
Have you been writing at all?
JOHN BECK Oct 8, 2009, 9:07pm EDT
No, but today I was thinking of starting an exercise by writing the first paragraph of novels. Not that I would necessarily ever finish one, but to practice getting the hook in early.
JOHN BECK Oct 8, 2009, 9:09pm EDT
Even perhaps the first sentence.
Pat Bertram Oct 8, 2009, 9:10pm EDT
Good idea! Some of the most fun I've had writing in the past year was a slushpile simulator contest here on gather. It was about writing the first 650 words of a book. I really enjoyed writing the beginning because I didn't have to worry about writing the story, didn't have to figure out how to resolve the story problem. I just wrote the hook.
JOHN BECK Oct 8, 2009, 9:10pm EDT
I'm intrigued by Daughter Am I.
JOHN BECK Oct 8, 2009, 9:12pm EDT
Who knows? I might just hook myself into completing a novel!
JOHN BECK Oct 8, 2009, 9:12pm EDT
I wonder if Wanda's timer went off.
Pat Bertram Oct 8, 2009, 9:15pm EDT
Maybe not. I left a message on her article, so maybe she'll find her way here.
James R. Oct 8, 2009, 9:15pm EDT
Hi Pat. I've started to move portions of longhand content that I wrote into the computer. Do you still write in longhand at all?
Pat Bertram Oct 8, 2009, 9:20pm EDT
Fiction is all longhand. Articles, blogs, comments are on the computer. I had an interesting discovery today. I dragged out my original longhand copy of Daughter Am I to see what gangster lore I cut out with the idea of posting it on my blog, and discovered that my working title was Crimes of the Fathers.
JOHN BECK Oct 8, 2009, 9:21pm EDT
I don’t write in longhand for 2 reasons: It’s easier to edit on the computer, and it’s easier to read than my penmanship.
JOHN BECK Oct 8, 2009, 9:22pm EDT
Ha! The title evolved as the story drove you, right?
Pat Bertram Oct 8, 2009, 9:45pm EDT
Yep. My Titles always evolve. More Deaths Than One Started out as . . . hmmm. I can't remember what my working title was. When I first started querying, I used Law of the Jungle, decided that was too trite, so I went with Nature of the Beast, which I decided was even triter. When I saw the Oscar Wilde stanza from Ballad of Reading Gaol, I grabbed it! So perfect for the book.

A Spark of Heavenly Fire started out as A Spark of Heavenly Fire, went to In the Dark Hour, and then reverted back to A Spark of Heavenly Fire.
Pat Bertram Oct 8, 2009, 9:16pm EDT
John, I'm pleased that you're intrigued. Any idea of an article I can write about the book to add to the intrigue?
JOHN BECK Oct 8, 2009, 9:20pm EDT
I like the brief intro which you posted above. Nope. I'm not sure how you could write an article without giving it away unless something about what inspired you to write it.
Deborah J Ledford Oct 8, 2009, 9:22pm EDT
Can't wait for your newest book to add to my collection of Pat Bertram titles!
JOHN BECK Oct 8, 2009, 9:24pm EDT
What are you writing, Deborah?
Pat Bertram Oct 8, 2009, 9:25pm EDT
I came across an interesting comment in web article yesterday:

Like fishing, throw the line out there with some alluring bait. Tell readers about your characters. Talk about the characters as if they are real people with whom readers might identify. Once readers get to know the story and empathize with your characters, even after they have finished reading one book you've written, they will be hungry for more time with your characters.

Since Daughter Am I is so heavily character oriented, I'm thinking I should do articles about the characters, that way the articles will be interesting to both readers and writers.
JOHN BECK Oct 8, 2009, 9:27pm EDT
Sounds like a plan. You're right: readers start to identify with characters and want more.
Deborah J Ledford Oct 8, 2009, 9:25pm EDT
It seems my handwriting gets worse with every passing day. I rely on the computer to compose anything coherent at all. I do jot notes down, but only as a reminder of what I need to flesh out at the computer.
Deborah J Ledford Oct 8, 2009, 9:27pm EDT
I haven't been writing anything creative, John. Been too busy promoting my new novel. Takes so much time--as Pat can attest to. My WIP has been put on the backburner for a while. I have all 3 books in the series completed, so no real push or rush to get another manuscript out. Still, I miss the disipline of cranking out 2,000 words per day while composing a first draft.
JOHN BECK Oct 8, 2009, 9:29pm EDT
If I wrote 2000 words in a day, it would probably take me a month to edit it!
Pat Bertram Oct 8, 2009, 9:30pm EDT
2,000 words a day! I didn't know you wrote that much, Deborah! It takes me a week to do that.
Deborah J Ledford Oct 8, 2009, 9:39pm EDT
Yep. That's my goal. One full chapter per day. I edit as I go, so it's a full day--just about every day until the First Draft is finished.
Angela A. Oct 8, 2009, 9:27pm EDT
Your new novel sounds awesome Pat.
Hi everyone. I was checking my group mail and I'm late as usual!
I'm behind on emails this week because my muse has struck in spades.
I've written over six posts this week and I have even more to write.
These words are coming out of me like you wouldn't believe.
My latest short story is a paranormal romance, just in time for Halloween.
JOHN BECK Oct 8, 2009, 9:32pm EDT
Where will you be posting your short story, Angela?
Angela A. Oct 8, 2009, 10:02pm EDT
I have my story here on Gather. It's spotlighted on my profile page. It's called, Tortured Soul. And, I have three parts written and posted so far. Thanks for asking.
Pat Bertram Oct 8, 2009, 9:28pm EDT
I found the site amusing. They had all sorts of articles extolling the virtues of social networking, and how the secret is not in the numbers, but in getting to know the people you befriend. Be personal. And the site was for a business who would be "personal" for you.
Wanda H. Oct 8, 2009, 9:29pm EDT
I'm here! My Nano is going to be a paranormal/mystery/romance
Pat Bertram Oct 8, 2009, 9:31pm EDT
Glad you made it, Wanda! Are you doing the outline ahead of time?
Pat Bertram Oct 8, 2009, 9:33pm EDT
I actually considered doing NaNoWriMo this year, and then I got involved with this blog tour. I keep telling myself it's to promote, but perhaps it's more to keep from having to write. (That was supposed to be a joke, though a not very funny one.)
Wanda H. Oct 8, 2009, 9:36pm EDT
just a little laughter....cause I know how things can be used to procrastinate.
Pat Bertram Oct 8, 2009, 9:40pm EDT
I keep saying I want to get back to writing, but I always find ways not to. One day, I'm sure, I'll just start writing without thinking about it. (Thinking always gets me into trouble.)
Pat Bertram Oct 8, 2009, 9:30pm EDT
Good for you, Angela! All writing is writing, whether it's blogs or articles, short stories or novels. (At least I keep telling myself that.)
JOHN BECK Oct 8, 2009, 9:34pm EDT
I should write a short story before I forget what I learned by writing Decision.
Angela A. Oct 8, 2009, 9:34pm EDT
Yep, I've written three parts to the short story so far. I've written two poems. One 100 word short story, and a post that reads like an ad.
Like I said, I'm just getting warmed up.
I have two more posts to work on for two other groups.
Then, back to part four of my short story.
This latest paranormal romance I'm writing is intriguing even me. That is usually how you know, you have a great story.
JOHN BECK Oct 8, 2009, 9:35pm EDT
OK. Pardon my ignorance. Nano? NaNoWriMo?
Wanda H. Oct 8, 2009, 9:36pm EDT
I'm trying something new. I read an article by someone(LOL) who suggested index cards, scenes by each character, using math to drive it. Like I have four characters, want to write about 70,000 words total, that comes to about 20 chapters of 3,500 words each. So each MC gets about 16 scenes and each secondary character gets about 9 scenes each. Then you write a one-line or so description of the scene, one per index card. She suggests just letting it fly, no matter how silly it might be. Then arrange the cards into some sort of order then flesh it out. Voila, a novel is born.
JOHN BECK Oct 8, 2009, 9:39pm EDT
Reminds me of college term papers!
Wanda H. Oct 8, 2009, 9:38pm EDT
National Novel Writing Month... I think. It's in November and you've won if you write the 50,000 words.
JOHN BECK Oct 8, 2009, 9:40pm EDT
Thanks, Wanda.
Pat Bertram Oct 8, 2009, 9:38pm EDT
One topic I'm considering doing is something about the mythic journey, which Joseph Campbell calls the hero's path.

Many familiar movies use this format, notably Star Wars, The Wizard of Oz, and Tin Cup (a Kevin Costner movie), and when I found out about the mythic journey, I wanted to write one of my own. My mentors and allies, shapeshifters and shadows, aren't dragons and wizards or spacemen but old gangsters. I had a lot of fun putting the story together.
JOHN BECK Oct 8, 2009, 9:42pm EDT
Joseph Campbell was interesting in that he droned as if what he was saying was boring, yet he held your attention with his unique presentation of fascinating subject matter.
Pat Bertram Oct 8, 2009, 9:54pm EDT
I hate to admit it, but I didn't read Joseph Campbell, though it's on my reading list. I read The Writer's Journey by Christopher Vogler.
Deborah J Ledford Oct 8, 2009, 9:40pm EDT
Joseph Campbell is one of my heros. So insightful about ... everything.
James R. Oct 8, 2009, 9:41pm EDT
Pat, looking at the original longhand can offer clues about what you originally had in mind. What led you to change the title?
Pat Bertram Oct 8, 2009, 9:50pm EDT
It focused on the fathers/grandfathers/grandfathers. Daughter Am I is sort of the same title but focusing on the young woman.
Wanda H. Oct 8, 2009, 9:42pm EDT
To be fair I looked up the gal with the article I'm following. Holly Lisle. I've no idea if it will work but it sounded like fun. The basis for this novel is a short story I wrote here a while back, called "The Girl in the Mirror" that everyone liked.
JOHN BECK Oct 8, 2009, 9:44pm EDT
I'm not sure how important it is to be so equitable with your characters!
James R. Oct 8, 2009, 9:43pm EDT
For a character-oriented book, using the characters for promoting the book sounds a tad crass, but might actually catch the attention of a potential reader.
Pat Bertram Oct 8, 2009, 9:48pm EDT
Crass? Like giving away too much?
JOHN BECK Oct 8, 2009, 9:51pm EDT
What are your ideas for promoting her book, James?
Wanda H. Oct 8, 2009, 9:53pm EDT
Personally I don't think anything is too crass.... but then maybe I don't know what crass actually means. ;o)

I think anything you can do to introduce new readers to your terrific stories is well worth it.
James R. Oct 8, 2009, 10:00pm EDT
Pat, by crass, I referred to the commerical aspect, but then jumped over to supporting the idea of letting the character speak to help interest potential readers in the book. Done creatively, this should be anything but crass.
Wanda H. Oct 8, 2009, 9:44pm EDT
Pat, I like the idea of articles about the characters to give readers a taste of what the book is about and make them want more. After writing a book about them I bet there's lots you know about each character that isn't even in the book. I mean, you can only put in so much back story.
Wanda H. Oct 8, 2009, 9:45pm EDT
John, it's the beginning of the process. POV will probably shift from one to the other for different scenes so I doubt if it will remain equitable through to the end.
JOHN BECK Oct 8, 2009, 9:47pm EDT
I was kidding, Wanda!
Wanda H. Oct 8, 2009, 9:51pm EDT
LOL No problem John. It was actually a very credible comment.
JOHN BECK Oct 8, 2009, 9:56pm EDT
It's been fun, folks. Thanks for letting me sit in. I'm goin' 10-7.
Pat Bertram Oct 8, 2009, 10:10pm EDT
Thank you for stopping by, John. It's always a pleasure to talk to you.
Wanda H. Oct 8, 2009, 9:57pm EDT
OK did I chase everyone away?
Deborah J Ledford Oct 8, 2009, 10:00pm EDT
I'm still here, Wanda.
Deborah J Ledford Oct 8, 2009, 10:01pm EDT
So, what do you "win" if you've written 50,000 words
Wanda H. Oct 8, 2009, 10:08pm EDT
You win the knowledge that you wrote a novel in a month. ;o) It's a way to encourage writing and many of the ones who have entered have went on the publish.
Pat Bertram Oct 8, 2009, 10:11pm EDT
Odd how they are encouraging everyone to write when there's millions of books out there now not being read.
Wanda H. Oct 8, 2009, 10:14pm EDT
I think it's an offshoot of a program to encourage kids in school to write. There are lots of groups that get together and have writing nights, groups compete with other groups for word counts, all sorts of fun. Last year we got emails from different authors, (even some I'd heard of before) encouraging us. I'm determined to win this year no matter what!
Pat Bertram Oct 8, 2009, 10:17pm EDT
Sounds like fun. I'll be encouraging you, too!!
Deborah J Ledford Oct 8, 2009, 10:18pm EDT
Good luck Wanda! I know you can do it.
Angela A. Oct 8, 2009, 10:19pm EDT
My newest short story I was referring to earlier is posted here on Gather. It's a paranormal romance with bite!
It's spotlighted on my profile.
Wanda H. Oct 8, 2009, 10:19pm EDT
Last year I fell far short. ;o( But this year I'm determined! Thank you Pat and Deborah. I'll need all the help I can get.
Pat Bertram Oct 8, 2009, 10:22pm EDT
I'm starting to get envious of everyone who is writing. Sounds like fun! I wonder how one does that. I vaguely remember pencil, paper and something to do with words.
Angela A. Oct 8, 2009, 10:25pm EDT
Using groups with prompts has really helped me spark my creativity. You should try it Pat. It my help you too.
Pat Bertram Oct 8, 2009, 10:26pm EDT
I did do a wombat contest recently. And I used to do the 100 word stories from one group until it disbanded.
Wanda H. Oct 8, 2009, 10:33pm EDT
I think I did that one too. And there were some with picture prompts or first line prompts. They really stirred my creativity. I enjoyed participating whether I won or not.
Wanda H. Oct 8, 2009, 10:26pm EDT
Oh Pat. I prescribe some good old fashion creative writing for you! I know you must do that promo stuff but if you don't write soon you'll forget what the heck you enjoyed so much about it.

Write three pages and call me in the morning!
Pat Bertram Oct 8, 2009, 10:31pm EDT
Three pages!! That's about ten hours of work. How about three paragraphs?
Wanda H. Oct 8, 2009, 10:33pm EDT
Ok, 3 paragraphs. I'm such a softy.
Pat Bertram Oct 8, 2009, 10:37pm EDT
We'll both be shocked it I actually do it!
Wanda H. Oct 8, 2009, 10:42pm EDT
But I'd be so proud of you! And you'd be proud too. AND you'd some of that fun, that creativity that you've been missing lately. I can hear it in your comments and your articles. You're missing that part of it. And isn't that why any of us begin to write anyway? That fun?
Pat Bertram Oct 8, 2009, 10:45pm EDT
True. I don't know when I lost the fun. Somewhere along the way it became work. My WIP was supposed to be just for fun, then all of a sudden it too became work.
Wanda H. Oct 8, 2009, 10:48pm EDT
I really think it's time for you to start writing again, even if your promo stuff lags a bit. Life is too short to lose your joy.
Wanda H. Oct 8, 2009, 10:49pm EDT
Of course it's easy for me to perscribe this or that.... but I definitely think you should think more about what brings you joy and what doesn't.

It's how I'm living my life these days. I want to find joy in life. I've had enough hard times, enough whatever the opposite of joy is.
Pat Bertram Oct 8, 2009, 10:59pm EDT
For so long now, I've found joy on the internet, but now all of a sudden it's becoming something I have to do -- especially now with the new book coming out -- and so while it's still addictive, it's not quite as much fun. I sound like a rebellious teen, don't I? If I have to do it, I don't want to.
Wanda H. Oct 8, 2009, 11:03pm EDT
I've found that with several hobbies I took up. After I got pretty good at it, people would say Oh, make me one would you? I'll pay you. Then of course I'd agree. Then gradually it would become a chore rather than fun. sigh
Wanda H. Oct 8, 2009, 10:27pm EDT
Angela, are there any good ones going right now? I used to belong to about six groups and wrote for them regularly but one by one they kind of folded.
Angela A. Oct 8, 2009, 10:30pm EDT
I'm still a part of the Gather Writing Essentials group. Try out Wednesday's Writing Essentials. Susan has pretty great prompts.
Also try the Gather Shorties group owned by Kay. These prompts are 100 words or less.
Wanda H. Oct 8, 2009, 10:40pm EDT
I'll give them a try. Thanks Angela. Do they give enough time? I can't do those ones that only give you like one day.
Angela A. Oct 8, 2009, 10:47pm EDT
The Wednesday Essentials gives you a week. And, the Gather shorties group is about the same. I like groups with flexibility also.
I have two kids, I help with homework and endless other chores. I wouldn't join a group without leeway! Lol!
Wanda H. Oct 8, 2009, 10:50pm EDT
I'll look them both up. Thanks Angela. I've been missing that kind of writing, grabbing a prompt and making what I can of it.
Angela A. Oct 8, 2009, 10:55pm EDT
I've also found lately that sometimes when I read other people's post they inspire me. Especially, poems. I'm not sure why. But, I just go with it.
Angela A. Oct 8, 2009, 11:00pm EDT
Well, it's 11 o'clock. So goodnight everyone!
Wanda H. Oct 8, 2009, 11:07pm EDT
Good night Angela. Thanks for the help. I really appreciate it.
Angela A. Oct 8, 2009, 11:09pm EDT
You're welcome. Night.
Pat Bertram Oct 8, 2009, 11:09pm EDT
Good night, Angela. Best of luck with your writing!

Wanda, good luck with NaNo. This year, for sure, you'll make it! I'll let you know if I do my three paragraphs.
Wanda H. Oct 8, 2009, 11:13pm EDT
Well, this one has been fun. Pat, I hope to hear from you tomorrow! Three paragraphs and lots of joy!
Pat Bertram Oct 8, 2009, 11:17pm EDT
Thanks, Wanda. Same to you.
James R. Oct 8, 2009, 11:20pm EDT
Pat, good luck getting back into the writing. I'm doing something similar myself, since I've spent so much time this year editing and re-writing my first novel and I'm done with that for now. So, back to the wip.
Pat Bertram Oct 9, 2009, 12:03am EDT
It's funny how people always insist that a writer writes, but so much of writing is editing and rewriting. That's what I've been doing the past two years, and I still have on book left to do final edits on. That's as much a part of writing as writing.

Thank you for stopping by. I always appreciate your input.

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