Was Joe Wilson Correct?

What criteria could be used if not such ID? I can't think of anything realistic.

E-Verify just like employers can use.

I hadn't thought of that. It could work, but people would probably balk at the cost and the time it takes. Surely some would liken it to racial profiling!

Joe Wilson is an idiot; of course he isn't right. I would guess there will be some sort of health card for those having public insurance. Forcing hospitals and clinics to check for proof of citizenship is a ridiculous waste of time. A driver's license and insurance card should be plenty; that is what they do now.

I believe the proposal was an ID to receive the public insurance.

Sorry - but this is just laughable. Aside from it not working (which the dimbulbs who put it up for vote knew full well... really GOOD fake IDs are REALLY cheap), it would demand a whole new bureaucracy in the health care industry dedicated to making sure illegal immigrants died outside the doors.

This was just a "gotcha" for the Democrats. Vote for it, and piss off every individual in the health care industry. Vote against it, and look like "friend of illegals" in every campaign thereafter. But, since the latter was the principled choice - that's the choice they took. And gave you your sanctimonious, small-minded, self-righteous victory. Enjoy it. It won't last long.

Why would it bother anyone in the health care industry? It would not create another bureaucracy at all. E-verify already exists and a fake I.D. don't work with e-verify very well.

Chuck,
You are correct. You can get very good fake IDs cheap. You are saying there is no reliable way to prevent illegal immigrants from getting on the public plan. So did the president lie when he said

"There are also those who claim that our reform efforts would insure illegal immigrants. This, too, is false. The reforms -- the reforms I'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally."

Max Baucus, has recieved payoffs from the health insurance and medical community,, he is intentionally trying to sabatoge health care reform for them....... I am sure he is behind it... after all he is the committie charman.. but this would mean nothing.. Because of Max Baucus, the bill proposal from the finance committie will never end up in the final product.. this was that committties deal.... it has nothing to do with the President or that white supremist Wilson.

I watched pretty much the whole Mark-up. Yes Baucus Bill in my opion is either a bribe or an appeasement to thee Health Insurance industry to take the very same folks they rescissioned, but after the screamer (who bought the propaganda) made sure that the Public Option was a four letter word. As Wendle Potter pointed out with a Public Option there would be no real reform. I will say it once again that you really need to get a hold of your Senators and Let them know that you want a Public Option. Based on what I have researched the Best Public option is Expanding the Medicare System to the rest of the US. You have 47 million folk on it already, so there is little extra cost and the expantion could only take 6 months. It is both Public and Private (You don't need to change you insurance if you don't want too). Florida who has the highest Medicare population also has the lowest in the nation concentration levels. Top 2 Insurers only control 45% of the market. Over 2/3 of the states in this country are 70% or higher. Understand Wall Street doesn't promote competition. Wall Street promotes Combination! There has been over 400 mergers. I do see a day that we will have a single payer insurance program, but it will be with just one company and it will be a take it or leave it Monopoly!

Amen Rory ,,, I agree 100%

It is common knowledge that the worst offenses are committed by the providers and NOT the patients....................Chuck gets it................just a gotcha is right on the money!

Baccus had stated this would be in the Senate bill...leaving it out is another reason to stop it.

Why? It's a useless provision. It'll cost health care providers a fortune, delay care, and be utterly ineffective into the bargain. Why is it not being in there a reason to kill a health care bill?

Exactly how would it cost health care providers a fortune Chuck?

One of many reasons actually but we've debated those before. The illegal problem though has a huge potential for making a massive fiscal problem with this idea into a growing disaster. As you say documents can be forged but tacit consent for illegals would be different from at least trying to slow down their numbers on whatever health care plan we end up with.

Saying we will have a bill that won't add a cent to the deficit can't even be said with a straight face if there is no effort to at least keep it for only legal residents and citizens.

Wilson was either correct is saying Obama is a liar or else Obama had no idea what was in the bill.

Without definitive proof illegals are in! Don't tell me they are not included show me in absolute words in black and white with NO loopholes. Not just illegals but everyone on this planet who needs medical care. For the price of air fare they are in.
So who thinks we can afford this now?

When my medical bills become too high just become a citizen of any other country and wala free medical. Just what are the benefits of being a citizen anyway? Immigrants seem to get more favorable treatment. From colleges to a 'hands off' policy when your caught with less than 500 lbs of drugs.

First off what do you use to get a driver's license? SSI card, Birth Certificate, Baptism Certificate, Bill with you name on it, school ID. The only thing in this list is a School ID! Great for a sixteen year old, maybe the next step is to have us all be given a tattoo bar code, so that we could prove that we are citizens. Ah the mark of the beast 666. One more step closer mind you, to that reality if the Orwin Hatch or was it Enzi that brought the photo ID up! Birth Certificate or Naturalization Papers is what determines you citizenship nothing more! All other forms are redundant!!!! Yes, I watch this little act on C Span3!!!! Mr. Mendez just about lost it! These photo ID guys in his state caused some little old ladies to die. 2000 people to over night to lose their SSI benefits. You forget a lot of old folks, especially women, never learned to drive a car! They don't have photo ID's!!!!!! When my grandfather was young there was horse and buggies on the roads! Do you think you needed driver licenses! Do you think back then they even took your photo if you go a license! I remember seeing early driver licenses without photos. Folks this is what is called pandering!!! Last time I looked your birth certificate doesn't have your photo on it!!! Some have now you foot and figure prints on the back of the sheet though. I'd be more worried about those folks and the mark of the beast!!!! Orwin Hatch could teach Cicero a thing or two.

Get the story right it is on the CSpan. Cspan has all the days in flash or you can download the it for $29.9?. For not checking an easy source I rate this post a 1

Just a thought. Say an illegal immigrant was sick and ended in the hospital. Say such immigrant could not pay the bill. Say we find a foolproof way to ensure that illegal immigrants can't be covered no matter what.
Who pays the bill?
If you take time to think about it, whether illegals are covered or not makes no difference because unless we deny them care we pay either way.
Think about it.

Which is why the illegal immigrant argument is absurd to start with. It's only a ruse to mobilize people that can't and won't think for themselves.

"Say we find a foolproof way to ensure that illegal immigrants can't be covered no matter what.
Who pays the bill? "

Say their homeland is Mexico. Then Mexico pays the bill. Isn't that who should be paying it ? If a bunch of kids show up at your door barefoot on a cold day (while their parents who can afford to buy them shoes, chuckle next door), do you go out and buy them shoes ? Yeah you do, if you're pretty stupid.
Their parents won't say it to your face, but here's what they'll say : "Thanks, sucker !"

You know your argument doesn't hold water in the real world, right?

You speak like someone with no real grasp on reality or international politics.

"...the illegal immigrant argument is absurd to start with. It's only a ruse to mobilize people that can't and won't think for themselves."

That depends on exactly what you mean by "the illegal immigrant argument".

Of course Joe Wilson was right. That's why it only took 2 days for Obama to reverse himself, and give in to Joe Wilson's demands (and the Senate too). All they wanted was for the SAVE provisions to be included in the bill, just as it is in Medicaid and lots of other government programs. The Democrats tried to scam the American people into believing Section 246 of HR3200 would insure illegal alien exclusion. They knew it wouldn't. Joe Wilson is just a guy who had guts enough to sound the alarm bell. Good for him.

Robert, that is a really good idea on billing the mother country for any medical bills. The money coming in from those countries should go directly to the hospital. If those monies go thru the govt we mind as well kiss most of it good by!
Look at the TARP funds for the banks, most all monies have been paid back but there is no law that states it should go to reduce the deficit. Unlike when we sell a car or house the law states the existing lein must be paid before the title transfers. So all that TARP money gets to be redistributed with no approvals, accounting or publicity. Yeah wow.
So if medical bills can go directly to the hospitals ... then great. Good idea.

I don't support Illegals getting benefits for free, but what would be wrong with allowing them to purchase insurance through the exchange? If they paid for insurance, they would be able to get health care themselves and their families and would not have to use the emergency room as their only source of health care. It would save money for everyone.

"If they paid for insurance, they would be able to get health care themselves and their families and would not have to use the emergency room as their only source of health care. It would save money for everyone."

If they got deported the minute they were discovered, the emergency rooms wouldn't have to service them either. There's no reason for them to be in America, so we shouldn't even be discussing where/how they might get health care here, or do anything else here.
Also, speaking of saving money for everyone, if they were deported ASAP, everyone in America wouldn't be losing $45 Billion/year, or more, from our economy due to the money (remittances) they send to their home countries.

And just how much do you think they add to the bottom line? Do you have any idea? You are throwing out amounts without considering how much they add to the economy also.

How to bring down ANY country: Import cheaper labor than what is currently the norm ( say Chinese) at what 10 cents an hour or is it a day. I guess some south of the border won't do those jobs especially for 10 cents an hour.
Import 50% of that country's population to work those jobs.
Let them spend just enough money to survive and send the rest out of the country.

When this happens more gradual and over time it doesn't seem so obvious.
We have 30 million unemployed & 20 million illegals. Does anyone need help with this math?

"And just how much do you think they add to the bottom line?"

ZERO. It's a common misconception that immigrants "add" money to America by paying taxes. This is totally wrong for a few reasons.
1) Many immigrants (far more than Americans) work off the books, and pay no taxes whatsoever. For all those jobs, we're losing the taxes the Americans would be paying if they were in those jobs.
2) Even in the jobs where immigrants do pay taxes, they pay less than if Americans were in those jobs, because they are cheap labor, and lower wages pays lower taxes.
3) Many immigrants collect welfare after their anchor babies are born, and use emergency rooms without paying (with or without their anchor babies). This is a toatal drain with no input.

Elmer Fudd,
If you truly are a liberal, you ought to be a little more concerned with the American poor & working class, who are hit the hardest by excessive immigration, while Corporate America's greed freaks boost their profits, using all this foreign, cheap labor.